DENAFRIPS DAC ---- Owner Impressions, Feedback, General Discussion, Questions and more....

For those considering CD Transports, give the new Denafrips Avatar a look....

https://www.denafrips.com/avatar

Alvin from Vinshine Audio is THE man! I purchased the Denafrips ARES II DAC earlier this year when it was on back order and Alvin communicated every week or so with an update on the production status and estimated shipping dates. It arrived professional packed (double boxed) in bullet proof foam enclosure.

Hooked it up to my Mac mini and it played straight away with no setup and just kept sounding better and better as it burned in. Definitely as advertised...very analogue sounding DAC. I also have a Benchmark DAC1 Pre USB as my reference which is a very neutral DAC so it was easy to hear the difference in my setup.

I switched it over to another system that used Windows 10 and could not get the USB input to play. I thought maybe the unit was defective, but it was ultimately user error :) Alvin took the time to walk me step by step and trouble shoot over the course of a few days via email until it was working perfect again. Not only did he help, but he taught me a bunch of things along the way with some articles he shared.

For the price and sound of this DAC and the support from Alvin at Vinshine there is no doubt this is the BEST VALUE in hifi audio. If you are on the fence, do not hesitate to do business with Alvin and try out the Denafrips brand. Was a five star white glove experience from start to finish!

Wow, looks like I set off a mini-storm above with my Roon settings.  

1. With the Terminator, you get options with DSD or PCM, both of which sound excellent in my system.  I had a pure, PCM-only ladder DAC, which I really enjoyed (Yggy Analog 2 and others), but I wanted options and even better sound quality- that is why I bought the Terminator.

2. Ultimate sound quality for the dollar is the raison d' etre of the Terminator IMHO.

3. The DSD section was not added to the Terminator as some after thought like a display dimmer setting.  

4. The argument above about wasting money if one is using the DSD- section, I can make the same argument to you...  why did you "waste" your money on the Terminator, which has a DSD section you also paid for, but are not using?  Using your logic, go buy a PCM only ladder DAC and save your dollars.  I don't view DAC's as commodities so I don't personally agree with this logic but I have no problems if others view things that way.  

5. I didn't say oversampled DSD with the settings I listed is the ultimate or that I exclusively use DSD, or that my settings can beat up your preferred settings.  I listen to PCM and oversampled DSD on my Terminator and enjoy both (I don't have any DSD music files). 

Enjoy and remember, we Denafrips owners are all on the same team.  This is just a hobby and we like what we like.

I’ve been listening several nights now while changing formats both upsampling and native. I haven’t been able to get the distortion to appear. Guess I’ll just enjoy the music for now and see what happens.

I’m with the others on the DSD vs PCM. PCM is why R2R exists. As I said in a prior post, I prefer it to both native and upsampled DSD. I may actually prefer native DSD “downsampled” to PCM. Not sure if that is a hit on the DACs Sigma Delta/FPGA or a compliment to its R2R. Most likely it’s the R2R is that good. None the less, I still tend to listen to DSD in native format for “fear of missing out“.

There is a caveat to my preference that I mentioned in a prior post. The level changes dramatically when I shift between DSD and PCM. DSD being much softer. I do try to adjust for this using the volume control, but it does make a direct comparison difficult. Is there a setting in Roon that can help equalize the difference so I can get better results?

As for upsampling in roon vs over sampling through the DAC I find myself slightly gravitating to leaving oversampling to the DAC. It’s a close call. I also experimented with using both simultaneously—the thought being to share the load so neither is working as hard. However, oversampling twice equals two sets of filtering which bothers me so I only use one or the other.

Curious, Anyone know what rate the Terminator oversamples to? Is it a multiple of the source? Knowing may help me help me with some more trials.

On another subject. Even though clocking and buffering before the dac, only for the dac to redo it all, makes absolutely no sense to me, new GAIA on the way.  

new here

heard the terminator

nice sound but definitely in the brighter/less weight camp

Hi jjss.
Was just doing a comparison of Anne Bisson’s all analog Direct to Disk “Four Seasons in Jazz” record (If you have a good vinyl rig you need to buy this album. Limited run of 3000 and getting close to the end—can buy direct from her website) vs Tidal redbook on my Terminator.

I’m using a Rega RP10 with Aphelion MC cart and LKV phono section. All playing through ML523 pre and 536 monos feeding 802D3s. They compare favorably with an edge to the Termi. Probably the last descriptor I would use would be “bright/less weight”.(I used to use an Oppo 205. That’s exactly how I would describe it, bright/less weight.)

Like most equipment, Terminators do have their critics, but I’ve never seen it described quite like that.

Curious, how extensive was your time with the terminator? Do you know if it had the new board? Any idea about the source and source settings? What was the associated equipment? Did you have a chance to compare it directly with another dac?

Always eager to hear a counter view and welcome!

I switched from an Yggdrasil Analog 2 and right out of the box, the Terminator had more authority in the bass, particularly the mid/upper bass. The mid-range and high end was a little rough at first but continued to get better as it broke in.  I've not got 1000 hours or so and it's sounding fabulous. 

jjss49, weird, that’s pretty much the opposite of what I’d say about the Termi. 

Sorry didn’t mean to cause consternation with my comment above - I had limited exposure to the unit - about 1.5-2 hrs listening to it and other DACs (Chord Dave, current Yggy, higher Auralic,) in a good friend’s system - Conrad Johnson/Primaluna tube gear, Kef Reference with Rel subs. Not sure the state of break in of the various units. Yggy was even more bass light than Denafrips, Dave had most fullness of tone. No doubt the KEFs have a modest upward tilt in its character but this sense I got was hearing the various DACs through the same system otherwise. Anyhow, this is just one data point... always trust your own ears more than anyone else’s!

No consternation! Just happened to be listening to my Termi when I saw your post.  I had never thought of it in those terms. When I had it playing exact same track side by side with my vinyl rig the Termi beat it in both those areas so my curiosity was piqued.  I love hearing other perspectives on all equipment.  I’ve never heard the Dave, so it’s interesting to hear your thoughts. Still curious, any idea if his Termi was the latest model or has new board?  What was the source? 

Hello audio folks. I just received my ARES II today and hooked it up. I am now a bit confused. I have a Dell laptop from which I get the usb output from. I have installed the Denafrips usb driver. Installed on the laptop is Foobar2000 to play my musical selections. My selections include 44.1 K  some 96K some 192K and some dsd. When I play any of the musical selections the led indicators on the ARES II always show 44.1 K X1.  I thought the indicators would respond to the input such as 96K etc. Foobar2000 shows at the bottom of the screen the specs of the tune being played. The  info appears to be correct as in displaying 44.1K 96K etc. So  my question is what am I doing wrong? I will add that the music plays just fine with any of my selections. I could add some additional detail but I thought for now this would be enough to get started. I apologize for not being a whiz at the ins and outs of the digital realm but I'm pretty old...This Dac stuff i new to me.

Thanks

Terry

Hi @wegenert,

Thank you for your support. You've done the first right step to install the USB driver for Windows (Thesycon v4.82.0), that's a good start.

To unleash the full potential of the Computer Audio System with DENAFRIPS DAC(in fact, all DAC), please consider to use the following software:

• Roon
• Jriver
• Foobar
• Audirvana 
• Amarra
  
• etc

These applications have the ability to control the USB DAC in Exclusive Mode. This is the keyword. Exclusive Mode bypass Windows Mixer, allow the applications to take full control of the USB DAC. 

For your case of Foobar, please use use WASAPI output. Some guides can be found here:
https://www.highend-audiopc.com/PDF/Fidelizer-Pro-User-Guide.pdf
https://www.thewelltemperedcomputer.com/SW/Players/Foobar.htm

Manual, Video Guides to configure NOS/OS, Filters, FAQ can be found on the DENAFRIPS website: 
https://www.denafrips.com/support

Hope this helps!

Many thanks.

Yours sincerely,
Alvin Chee
www.vinshineaudio.com

For those interested in the DSP 'upgrade,' here is owner Art's feedback on doing so with his Pontus DAC:

https://www.denafrips.com/single-post/2020/06/04/PONTUS-DAC-It-is-an-astounding-value?utm_campaign=31799a0d-dd95-41f8-8fcb-af94cc4e451d&utm_source=so&utm_medium=mail&cid=6a6bbfad-aefa-4c9d-9edc-f0321a709747

 PS. Love the simplicity and beauty of those speakers of yours, Art.

Hello guys,

Like to share the users' impression of DENAFRIPS DAC.
https://www.denafrips.com/news

I am extremely happy and encouraged to read these positive impressions. This is simply the best encouragement and drive for me to continue what i am doing and i will do better!

Thank you for your support!

Alvin Chee
www.vinshineaudio.com

Terminator Plus DAC information, courtesy of John Darko / Darko Audio:

https://darko.audio/2020/07/denafrips-announces-terminator-plus-dac/

As intriguing as this is, the 45mhz clock links between his products are a closed architecture as far as I can see. I would love to try it, but have been using a 10mhz clock link between Esoteric and SOtM products and see no way to interoperate without a complete reboot. A 10mhz clock link also fits into the studio recording environment.  From a marketing standpoint it would have been better for Terminator to have taken a closer look at what established manufacturers are doing with master clocks.

Hello guys,

We would like to inform you that the new version Thesycon 4.86 of Windows USBAudio Driver is available.

NEW:

• - Support for Windows 10 version 2004
• - Various improvements and bug fixes

The history file with changes can be downloaded at:
http://www.thesycon.de/usbaudio/TUSBAudio_history.txt

Please download it here: link
https://www.denafrips.com/support

Many thanks.

Yours sincerely,
Alvin Chee
www.vinshineaudio.com

Thanks!  I've been using the DENAFRIPS Ares ii with HYSOLID App on my iphone and Windows 10 on my PC for the USB input.  It seems to work fine for DSD files and others.  What do you think?

@73max I am very glad you have brought up the intermittent distortion issue, I have been experiencing the same thing for months now. It is a metallic ringing scratching noise that is a constant distortion over the music. It happens at random when switching to a next track or resuming playback. The fix is to pause and restart playback, it's almost like the read/write of the buffer gets corrupted.

Clearly this isn't an isolated incident, have you been able to get in touch with Alvin and/or fix the issue?

@73max, @divertiti - I think I have experienced the same thing. The first couple times this happened, I had assumed it was a bad file being streamed and I just skipped past it. After recently reading this thread, I decided to look at what was playing when it happened today and noticed that Roon had switched to a different album streaming from Qobuz at 192Khz, 24 bit. Restarting the song, it played perfectly. 

I recently decided to try using a direct USB connection between my NUC (running ROCK - essentially the same as the Nucleus+) and my Termi instead of using a streamer. I think I heard this problem before switching to the USB connection, but I'm not completely sure.

I also have a Bryston BDP-2 connected via AES3. I'm trying to decided whether to keep this since I now have my Roon server running on a fanless NUC (with LPS) next to my equipment.

I added Qobuz to the mix only a few weeks ago, so it could have started with this. I have very few high-res downloads, so prior to Qobuz, I was using RIPed CDs and Tidal and had a lot less switching between sample rates.

So I'm not sure if this is just an issue with USB, or a broader issue. I'm also not sure if it is a Roon problem or a Terminator problem. My current configuration is using Roon power-of-2 upsampling and NOS turned off on the DAC.

@jaytor Perhaps we can triangulate the cause, I am streaming through USB from an SOTM Trifacta stack into Roon, upsampling using PCM power of 2. I think we can safely eliminate the streamer since we are all using different ones. It happens when I stream both Tidal and Qobuz, so it's not streaming service specific. The commonality is Terminator, USB, and Roon upsampling right now it seems.

@73max What type of setup are you running when experiencing this issue?

I use HDMI I2S from the Soundaware D300REF (roon bridge) primarily, the said issue has never occurred to me.

Seems like it's an USB sync/handshake problem. I will try the SOtM sms-200ultra / Sonore uRendu on my end and get back.

Cheers,
Alvin
www.vinshineaudio.com

@alvin1118 Thanks Alvin, try using Roon upsampling at PCM (power of 2) and switch tracks or pause and start songs quickly, would be curious as to what you find. Thanks.

Srajan Ebaen's review (Part 1) of the Denafrips Terminator-Plus.

From 6Moons: https://6moons.com/audioreview_articles/denafrips7/

05-21-2018 5:01am@viablex1   I'm copying your post from a thread you initiated:

I ordered an ares and received shipment about a week to ten days ago. Initially it would not turn on. Then I saw lights and eventually sound. Not sure what was going on but it was a prelude to what happened next. I liked the sound very musical but when using the first coax input I kept getting this weird volume problem. when a track would start it would cut almost completely off then go back to the original volume. So I needed to send it back which I am doing but it is expensive because there is no USA support at all. I almost bought the Pontus but glad I didn't since it would have cost even more to ship it back.

I am not saying never buy one or bashing denafrips just know if something goes wrong shipping back is exorbitant

Per Denafrips Warranty policy (referenced below) there should be no cost for you to ship back for warranty work within the first 30 days.

"36 Months Warranty, Peace of MindComprehensive Warranty Coverage:

All DENAFRIPS products are covered under this policy. Warranty covers non-man-made defects. Customer shall bear the import duties and taxes whenever applicable.

30 Days: DENAFRIPS to bear both way shipping fee.31-365 Days: Customer to bear one way shipping fee. DENAFRIPS to repair and cover return shipping fee.
366-1095 Days: Customer to bear both way shipping fee. DENAFRIPS to repair at free labor and parts at no cost.
1096 Days Onwards: Customer to bear both way shipping cost. DENAFRIPS to provide repair and/or maintenance services at cost."

copy and past all you want I have my own valid experience and it could have gone smoother

I just replaced my Terminator (with the new DSP board) with the Terminator Plus.  In spite of how good the Terminator is, the Plus just brings more in terms of quietness and detail.  Particularly the bass notes are better delineated.
I also added the Denafrips Iris, once the I2S was properly set up it brings more detail and air in the high end- kind of holographic with instruments almost directly left and right of my listening position.
Once I enabled the clock out from the TP to the Iris- holy cow.  So musical.  Leading edges of bass notes jump out and then reverb and decay with such detail.
Adding the Iris transformed the USB output from my Innuos Statement which I did not think was possible as I thought it was so good previously.  I am a bit dumbfounded at how much I was missing.

@anzaanimalclinic  Congratulations on moving to the Terminator Plus and Iris combination and the stellar results you have achieved!!!

Over the past few months, we published dozens of owners' feedback here: https://www.denafrips.com/news

It has been a challenging year for everybody. However, we are flattered by your strong support. Thank you! We are grateful.

Take care and stay safe!

Many thanks.

Alvin Chee
http://www.vinshineaudio.com/

I cant claim golden ears or any definitive last word on DACS but I purchased an Ares and liked it. I also auditioned a MSL400  Also good but with a remote, a viewing screen and more filter option. I sold the Ares to a guy who went nuts for it and returned the MSL 400. These were both good units but I wound up with a Schiit Gugnier Multibit. Nice DAC and I'm happy. I use an Audiolab CDT 6000 transport and after going through a bunch of COAX cables, I like the Kimber 30 for a reasonable $95. It is easier to listen to than my silver Kimber D60 that retails for $450. So all in My digital front end is right at $2k. About the max what I want to spend. I've been doing the audiophile thing for over 40 years and I have to put the brakes on equipment creep. Pretty soon the cost of my system would double and I would not sure how I got there or if it is really any better than what I had before. 

i am interested in the Pontus, but noticed that a power cord is not included?  how can this be?  anyway what after market cords are recommended.  Rega makes a good one.  i also have a Rega Brio amplifier and Rega RS1 speakers.  wonder if this DAC would be overkill for my current system.  will replace a NAD D1050 DAC that still sound very good even though its 7 years old.

Yep, we decided not to include the generic power cord as most of the audiophiles would have their preferred power cord to use already. The generic power will likely end up in trash instead.

We've published the basic setup guides for PC/Mac computer audiophiles who use DENAFRIPS DAC via the USB input, feel free to check it out:

• Windows PC
• Mac

Cheers,
Alvin Chee

Hans Beekhuyzen video review of the Terminator-Plus R-2R ladder DAC

Impressive!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xS8_iWwtCs

Will make this short and sweet. Have had my Ares II for a couple weeks now, and am incredibly pleased. Some say analog-like. Not quite sure about that, but it is incredibly engaging to listen through, and does not sound ‘digital’ either. Soundstage and imaging is wonderful. Not something I said about my previous DAC. Good, but not like the Ares.

Now, like almost everyone else who has purchased the Ares, perhaps I should have sprung for the Pontus instead. But, no regrets. Easy and quick to sell if I decide to do that.

Thanks for the support, guys!

Happy holidays!

I've got the bug for a new DAC. My Hegel HD30 is "very good" (and resolves more detail than you'd think 16/44.1 redbook could capture). But I'm hoping to get a more organic/liquid midrange and that sense of solidity from an R2R (or comparable) DAC. 

Besides the challenge of auditioning Denafrips DACs is one other challenge my system has... no preamp. And I've spent $$ on cables that I'd hate to have to buy a pre-amp *and* another set of cables just to be able to enjoy a fixed-output dac.

The Rockna wavedream and wavelight both can be purchased with variable output (and analog at that... not digital attenuation). I'm looking for input from you guys... both to see if anyone has a thought about these two dac families (Denafrips vs Rockna... has anyone compared??) but also, given my lack preamp at present, what's a wiser way to spend. My audio is 100% digital source.

Thanks!

I recently changed out speakers and started using HQPlayer (I've been a Roon lifetime subscriber for years) and my usage of digital playback and file streaming is way up. So yesterday I decided to buy a used Ares II. I just want to see how it sounds and then, hopefully, upgrade to a Venus II down the road. 

My former DAC was a Convert-2 which was fantastic but it was also pretty obviously tilted to a specific kind of presentation. Right now I am using a Benchmark DAC3L and while I think it's an excellent DAC, I want to test the Denafrips waters and the 3L also has some things in the preamp function I'm not necessarily a fan of. I'll be pairing the Ares II with a Schiit Freya+ whenever it comes off backorder, so I can use balanced in and out from digital sources to my amp.

Really excited - I've had an R2R DAC in the past and really enjoyed its presentation, so seeing what one can do that can also handle some serious upsampling from HQPlayer should be a treat. 

@toddrhodes  Sounds like fun! Post your findings and results!

@dvdboulet  I believe you will achieve good results with either DAC specific option. You'll have to figure out the +/- of a standalone pre vs an included volume control.

I'll add that there is a healthier resale market for Denafrips.

what's a wiser way to spend

Two U.S. service reps / centers announced by Alvin of Vinshine Audio:

https://www.vinshineaudio.com/support?utm_campaign=8f7f0166-623f-4132-a545-8c92ae1d342e&utm_sour...

I just received my Ares II yesterday and the left channel is not working through the single ended output.  I’ve emailed Alvin but no response yet.  I’m wondering if I need to wait for him to tell me to ship it to the closest support center or if I should contact them directly and get the process underway.  Not concerned about whether it will be covered, just the appropriate order of things.  Thanks,

Hey Don,

I just replied to your email, sorry for the time zone differences. We shall advice the next course of action via email. Thanks!

In general, please contact us via the Support Page: https://www.vinshineaudio.com/support

• USA Repair/Warranty Supports •
1. Repair/Warranty Authorizations are required for all services
2. Kindly write to us by using the Contact Support form above. We are committed to respond within 24-48hrs. 
3. The Authorization Number will be provided once the service request is approved. 
4. Please ship the product in its original box with tracking to the appointed service center.
5. Refer to our TERMS page for the warranty terms & conditions. 
​Many thanks.

Best, 
Alvin Cheewww.vinshineaudio.com

am glad to see denafrips thru alvin set up usa support/repair capabilities

enough units have been sold here now, the move is long overdue

excellent products, perform very well for the price, carefully voiced to sound natural yet incisive

I have just sold my Audio Note DAC One signature edition and now looking for a new DAC. Denafrips is at the top of my shortlist. Based on the prices, the Ares II seems to be a downgrade but I’m of the opinion that DAC technology has progressed tremendously and a lower priced modern DAC may be better than an older higher priced DAC. I hope someone can give me some opinions on the following:
1. Is there an audible difference between the Ares and Pontus? My ears are not great and I don’t and won’t use expensive cables. 2. Are they a good match for my 300b tube amp and floor standing speakers with aluminium ribbon tweeters?
3. I’m toying with the the idea of buying two DACs - an Ares II and a delta sigma one (one of those Topping, SMSL or Gustard DACs that measures very well and can decode MQA) so that I can switch between them depending on my moods. Or should I go all in on a Pontus?

Thank you in advance. 

Video review and comparison that may answer some questions...

From: Jay / The Next Best Thing Studio

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FuoBAodEI5w&feature=youtu.be

I have just sold my Audio Note DAC One signature edition and now looking for a new DAC. Denafrips is at the top of my shortlist. Based on the prices, the Ares II seems to be a downgrade but I’m of the opinion that DAC technology has progressed tremendously and a lower priced modern DAC may be better than an older higher priced DAC. I hope someone can give me some opinions on the following:
1. Is there an audible difference between the Ares and Pontus? My ears are not great and I don’t and won’t use expensive cables. 2. Are they a good match for my 300b tube amp and floor standing speakers with aluminium ribbon tweeters?
3. I’m toying with the the idea of buying two DACs - an Ares II and a delta sigma one (one of those Topping, SMSL or Gustard DACs that measures very well and can decode MQA) so that I can switch between them depending on my moods. Or should I go all in on a Pontus?

yes in my experience with both the pontus is definitely more refined than the ares 2, which had a troublesome sibilance (to my ears, in my system) in the lower treble

i have not tried the venus, but i have tried a terminator also, and in my opinion the pontus is the sweet spot in the line for performance for $

Hello guys,

The latest licensed Thesycon Driver ( For Windows PC ) v5.0.0 is available to download here: link.

The history file with changes can be downloaded at: http://www.thesycon.de/usbaudio/TUSBAudio_history.txt

Many thanks,
Alvin @ Vinshine Audio

New ARES II owner here. Just arrived today. LOVE. 

What made me buy it? Having variety I suppose. My beloved Burson 3R (2x9038q2m) comes pretty close, but the immediacy and increased dynamics on the ARES II is instantly recognizable. OS/sharp, 16/44 and 24/96 local FLAC streams. 

Charlie Haden live: hear the performance & audience in 3D, every little cough and sniffle. 

Other DAC's in service: SMSL SU-9, Chord Mojo, TDA1387 (all mid-tier/budget)

Thank you Denafrips team. 
 

Congrats, please report back next week

Thank you @atmfrank01. Ares II is an incredible DAC :) 

• http://v2.stereotimes.com/post/denafrips-ares-ii-dac/
• https://www.audiophilia.com/reviews/2020/11/30/denafrips-dac

Enjoy the music!

Many thanks,
Alvin Chee
www.vinshineaudio.com