I had a Pass XA30.8 (after trying a Firstwatt F8 and Pass XA25 in my system) for awhile before swapping it for my current Luxman L-590AXII and I feel that, unless you really want whatever personality/character the Pass imparts on your chain, the Luxman seems to simply be the more transparent and performant option.
Demo'ing Class A amps, Appreciation Suggestions from those who recently been there
I recently sold my Cary S120MKll Amp in 2 days. It was 60wpc triode.
Filling in with Pass Lab, baby DIY Class A Mono blocks. Maxing at 7 wpc.
My speakers are rated 94 Sensitivity older FSMs by Tannoy.
I have sampled so far in order of preference:
-Pass Labs XA25 -Disneyland color the way I like it. $4,900 new
-Leben 300 Int. 12 wpc. EL 84s by Golden Lion-Like an Upscale call girl. Seductive. $4,000 new-Not in the running-
-Lejonklou Boazu Int.-40wpc S.S. Class a/b-Totally Pure. Almost hurts to hear a guitar slide. $4,000 new
-Sugden Masterclass IA 4 Class A to 33wpc. Very smooth but surprisingly not a great match with my Tannoys. $6,000?
What else would you think might be worth a listen?
I want to go Solid State this time. I enjoy the Class A resolution.
Yes the Leben is an outlier someone offered and I said "Sure"! Done with hum otherwise.
I listen from a low of 60 db to high of 75 db.
Room is irregular and medium sized in terms of cubic
feet. Treated as needed.
I want an amp that is satisfying enough to keep for the long run.
Someday I may add the others for a different sound or with less efficient planars, etc.
Price range $5k max.
Used preferred.
Willing to wait.
Brands I am have not heard but read positive comments about:
Ayre, Naim, Linn
Thank you all in advance for your thoughts.
Please do not feel compelled to respond if you
have not been here in the last few years.
Filling in with Pass Lab, baby DIY Class A Mono blocks. Maxing at 7 wpc.
My speakers are rated 94 Sensitivity older FSMs by Tannoy.
I have sampled so far in order of preference:
-Pass Labs XA25 -Disneyland color the way I like it. $4,900 new
-Leben 300 Int. 12 wpc. EL 84s by Golden Lion-Like an Upscale call girl. Seductive. $4,000 new-Not in the running-
-Lejonklou Boazu Int.-40wpc S.S. Class a/b-Totally Pure. Almost hurts to hear a guitar slide. $4,000 new
-Sugden Masterclass IA 4 Class A to 33wpc. Very smooth but surprisingly not a great match with my Tannoys. $6,000?
What else would you think might be worth a listen?
I want to go Solid State this time. I enjoy the Class A resolution.
Yes the Leben is an outlier someone offered and I said "Sure"! Done with hum otherwise.
I listen from a low of 60 db to high of 75 db.
Room is irregular and medium sized in terms of cubic
feet. Treated as needed.
I want an amp that is satisfying enough to keep for the long run.
Someday I may add the others for a different sound or with less efficient planars, etc.
Price range $5k max.
Used preferred.
Willing to wait.
Brands I am have not heard but read positive comments about:
Ayre, Naim, Linn
Thank you all in advance for your thoughts.
Please do not feel compelled to respond if you
have not been here in the last few years.
128 responses Add your response
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A report on another site with photos... https://www.hifiwigwam.com/forum/topic/142232-exciting-moment/ |
@ chorus, This has been a slow evolving rabbit hole of upgrades. The current system will be a Linn Majik DSM (3) with internal amp and volume control turned off > Pass Labs XP-20 preamp > Pass Labs XA30.8 amp > Spendor D9 speakers. Analogue: Rega Planar 6 table with Ania MC coil, Neo power supply and Rega Aria phono stage... |
ag3- Steve Guttenberg reviewed the Cheviots a few months back. He used both his SIT3 and the XA25. The XA25 was the clear winner he said. I think these Tannoys benefit from the extra power. From what I hear the LTA is not as good. One Valvet E2SE owner said he liked his Valvet over the XA25 but was trading up to the Mono blocks. I prefer a nearby factory and US build. Reselling unknown brands often times means a haircut. Bakoon is one I look for if another show ever happens. I did try a Swedish no name integrated-Lejonklou. Now that could be a 2nd amp someday for me. 40wpc Class a/b. So black and pure and uncolored. Maybe more so than I prefer. |
Edit: didn't read the thread but seems you made a good decision ! -- I’ve got a pair of the newer tannoy eatons. For low powered SS I’ve tried the XA25 (current amp) and several FW models (F7 and SIT3). The SIT3 isn’t a good match imo. I really like the XA25, I think it's a great match with Tannoys. Prior tube amps included the LTA UltraLinear (for sale) and the new PrimaLuna. While I enjoy tubes, i prefer a well made ss to tubes over the long run for the added detail, bass control etc. The LTA is no slouch but prefered the Pass head to head, although it bested both the F7 and SIT3 in my set up. 2 amps I’d like to try when funds permit are the Valvet e2se and the bakoon 13R These amps are reportedly quite similar to the pass XA25. All low powered, ss. Bakoon is class AB I believe, from what I've read I'm expecting similar sound to the Pass. Valvet is class A and single ended and have several 2nd hand reports of people enjoying it more than the Pass |
I’ve owned three class A biased amps and will never go back to anything but class A. I had a couple of Krell KMA160’s several years ago. They were good,butIhadsomeMartinLogan Monoliths and they just didn’t have the power I needed. From there I went to a couple of Pass XA-100.5’s. They were sweet, but had some Wilson Max II’s-same problem. I purchased a couple of Krell EV 600’s and have never looked back..They supply all the current and headroom I will ever need. I have made this analogy before. Anything, but a class A amp is like a dragster sitting on the line idling. A class A amp is wide open, just waiting to drop the clutch. A class A is very quick “and I like it.” |
Congrats on your Xa25. If you ask Mark at Reno Hifi he says best all around is Xa25 compared to Sit-3 and F7. I never heard Sit-3 but Mr. Pass says more dimensional and juicy. But I wonder if you give a up a bit of detail for the extra distortion. In my set up it's neutral and not the least bit mechanical and has all the details. Today I will sub in my Evo 200 tube amp as I don't want to over work the Pass on this summer heat. I don't have AC so I was listening naked in my underwear yesterday!🙊 |
ricevs, You have outlined my buying model. Try b4 u buy. Which is why I have tried so many. Lejonklou, Leben, Sugden, Kongku, Electrik, Cary and Pass. There is local party with a Valvet E2 SE for sale. No home trial available. I am not a Benchmark fan. They measure well but the sound is too dry for me. Engineers love them naturally. I am off LTA as some comments I read make them sound not as good as other choices but I may never know. If there is ever another Audio show LTA will be a lengthy visit. Now the Valvet does intrigue me I have to admit... I see it as likely another product much like the Lejonklou. Amazing resolution. I like the "tubey" Pass sound. His house sound works magic for me. He is good with his crayons I guess. I let my ears do the deciding. Hence the Pass XA25 is the winner so far. I have paid RT freight and restocking fees when needed but I am not of unlimited means. Sorry if I gave that impression. I can not finance more than one product at a time. I seek confirmation by inviting two friends over who have more experienced and discerning ears than I have. If I do not have my position confirmed by them I will likely not move ahead. If this sounds a bit contradictory to my earlier statement, well you may be right. But anyone who does not want his opinions supported by those with higher skill sets is a fool, right? |
Chorus, If I were you I would buy the Valvet E2 SE and the LTA Zotl10 MKII amp and the Benchmark amp (all with money back trial) and then A/B/C/D them all. Replace any fuses with Synergistic Blues before you do the test....Make sure they are all burned in. If you liked any one of the above better you can sell the Pass for what you paid, very quickly. Make yourself happy, get the best sound that you like.....not what others have said.....listen for yourself. You can then inform others who don't have the money to front for all those amps but who REALLY want to know. Help yourself, help others. |
I just realized I had my my speaker's treble settings were maxed to high side when I used the Cary. When I auditioned the Pass XA25 I did not change them. I think this is why the ear burn was felt. I think after reading the many well made suggestions -for which I thank each participant's contribution- I will most likely buy the XA25. Then I will buy the Supratek Chardonnay as a preamp. Not only do I like the 6SN7 tube, I also like the name Chardonnay. Further I love the appearance of this piece of art. It is likely a true fool's errand to buy something made on a continent I will likely never visit, but it seems the most musical piece $2,000 will buy. Anyone visiting Phoenix from June on that would care to hear my system, please get in touch. Best, Jeff |
Atmo- I read your comments about a tweeter's Unbearable Harshness of SS and hope you are somehow unaware of a cure. Cables?@chorus I suspect you have a typo here. The brightness is caused by distortion and because its in the amp, probably not something you can get rid of with an equalizer. It might be possible to use a ZOBEL network on the speaker itself, targeting the band of brightness, but since its caused by distortion the band is a bit of a moving target depending on the music and how loud its being played. IMO you're best off going with an amplifier that doesn't exhibit brightness to start with! In the solid state world, that's a really tall order; a really short list. Since your speakers are easy to drive if I had to go with solid state I would be looking at an amplifier that runs no feedback such as Ayre or First Watt. If not available or rejected for some reason, a zero feedback class D amp is worth looking at too. |
I bought two Schiit Aegir Monoblocks for less than the price I paid for a pair of speaker cables.. Class A sound using a new continuity circuit designed in house.. tube like attributes without the Tubes ! Why spend more ? You should hear how good these sound.. Made in the USA too.. I spent a lot of money over the years To learn that you don’t need to spend a lot of money To get a great sound! |
Look for a Sumo The Nine, a Jim Bongiorno design providing 60W class A. Simply one of the nicest amps I've ever heard and will snap one up if given the chance. I see Tom8999 is using a Son of Ampzilla II in his system which is also designed by Bongiorno and would be worth considering. I still own the original GAS Son of Ampzilla which must be over 40 years old and is in my system now but has been rebuilt. I recommend a recap and general look-over by a competent and sympathetic technician. The internal wiring should be replaced with solid core OCC wire and input / output sockets replaced with the very best available. Low-mass offerings from Furutech and WBT come to mind. Must replace the IEC socket too. I say 'sympathetic' because you will always get the know-all tech who will claim assertively with a snigger that it will make no difference and leave you with a rude and dismissive 'well it's your money'. Have heard it drive electostats, magneplanars and a variety of boxes with ease. It drove my Tannoy MG 15 Golds with aplomb. You could also lookout for an early Threshold or a Spread Spectrum Technologies which was Bongiorno's last before he died. |
Okay more interesting suggestions, thank you! Re Forte-yes good sound but too old for me. Not wanting a rehab project right now , thanks. Valvet sounds like the LTA product in many ways. I will look for someone here that owns one. So obscure I doubt my luck though. Carlitos- You are the guy I have been waiting for! So you compared the XA25 to the X 30.8 and preferred the 30.8. Now that is an interesting comparison that so far only you have done. Thanks. Deco- I have not heard the INT60 yet. Not sure I need to HP or extra weight and heat. Atmo- I read your comments about a tweeter's Unbearable Harshness of SS and hope you are somehow unaware of a cure. Cables? |
I like the extra dynamics and bass of the SS Pass but it does burn@chorus I missed this earlier; the reason SS is bright is due to distortion. Its not very much, but the ear is keenly sensitive to this type of distortion (higher ordered harmonics) and perceives them as brightness and harshness. For this reason you may find that while you can tone it down a little by simply turning down the tweeter, you can't actually get rid of it entirely since its not due to a frequency response error. |
Hey I like this thread! My two cents worth...I have had many amps in a magnestand 1.6/rythmic 12SE sub system. Having no mind of my own I called Mark at Reno Hifi. And asked him what do I need? (Dont you love it?) He said Carlitos either use a Pass 30.8 ( I thought no way) or a Pass 250.8 (its has a class a high bias). I am poor so I went with the Pass 30.8. It has been in my system for 3 years iand is is absolutely wonderful. Its smooth, holographic AND it drives the maggies exceptionally well. The pass 30.8 is a better amp in comparison to the pass 25 Blessings Carlitos |
Chorus, there is a Fortè Model 4a on eBay now for $650. Class A amp, 50 watts per channel. https://www.ebay.com/itm/114175241726 Exact design as the Threshold “T” series. A killer amp and kicks ass in sound. Highly musical, highly detailed! It is a high recommendation for your system. If you want to spend more money on another amp, I would bet the Fortè would walk all over whatever amp you put it against upward to $4000 and higher. Lowtubes@gmail.com |
I spent a lot of time looking to replace my Mcintosh separates which stood me well for almost 20 years, but once I started to listen the newer equipment I realized the MC’s were dated. Finally went above my price range and got the Luxman 590AX II. The sound is night and day on my Totems. Clean, clear, very very slightly warm. Big soundstage. It’s a keeper for a long time. You can go one step lower in power and that should be in your price range. But I just waited till I had the dough for this one. |
Well, if that the direction you want to go in, SS will be faster and have better dynamics and more control over the musicI'm not ever sure that's the case either. I know of tube amps that are faster than most solid state amps. 'Dynamics' is often a word used to describe distortion, since so often the distortion is most apparent on transients. The ear uses higher ordered harmonics to sense sound pressure, so if that distortion is mostly on the transients (even in small amounts) the reproduction will seem to be more 'dynamic'. But actual dynamic contrast is a function of the software/media, not the amp! |
http://www.10audio.com/valvet_e2-se.htm
Not much power.....but I bet plenty for 94db speakers at the levels you listen to. |
The previous generation Luxman m-600 and m-800 (all class A 30w and 60w respectively) had something that even the newer generation models don’t have in terms of thick class A signature sound and tons of current to punch way above their weight. Might be worth looking into whether they are a good match for your speakers. I compared them to all the Luxman integrateds and preferred them by a significant margin (though they are more similar than different). They also run nicely as monoblocks. |