Deleted Threads by Admin??

@djones51. Close adaptation—modified for the audience here, but not verbatim. 

@clearthink George didn’t pen this quote, as snopes dot com demonstrated. And if you compare the original work by the Reverend Moorehead with my post, word for word, it’s not the same text. But nice work, otherwise.

celander "George didn’t pen this quote, as snopes dot com demonstrated. And if you compare the original work by the Reverend Moorehead with my post, word for word, it’s not the same text"

You’re right you didn’t steal this from George Carlin you stole it from someone else then you through in a few words of you’re own and now try to pass it off as original thinking it is so odd that this should happen in this thread where we talk about the decline of Western civilization and how truth has become a rubbery slippery poorly defined thing subject to the unique interpretation of each individual so congratulations on defending yourself against plagiarism by claiming that some of the words were actually your’s! In my country plagiarism is derided as a particularly vile offense and infraction but you seem to suffer no discomfort, shame or embarrassment in stealing another's original creation that says a lot about you!

Geoff ..  

A comment about veterans benefits is political? How so?  

Frank

@clearthunk. I never claimed that I wrote the entire post from scratch. I never claimed authorship. It’s a post to a thread that has utterly no meaning. Get over it. Move on. 

@clearthink   What country would that be from which you opine?

celander"Get over it. Move on"

If you want me to "move on" you should file a request, complaint, or demand with the moderator's who manage this group I plan to participate here as long as I please if only to expose cheats, liars and bullies such as yourself for the ignorant, opinionated and misguided fools that you are!

hifiman5"What country would that be from which you opine?"

I do not respond to requests or demands for personal information from user's of this site however if you have been reading my contributions a smart fellow such as yourself will almost without serious doubt be able to figure it out for yourself!

Why do I get the impression that some contributors are posting from leather recliners, wearing only underwear, with a Colt45 beverage on their side table?

celander "Why do I get the impression that some contributors are posting from leather recliners, wearing only underwear, with a Colt45 beverage on their side table?"

It is because you are looking in what's called a "mirror" which is a device that reflects that to which it is exposed you may want to Google that!

I sense an anger management course in the future of at least one contributor here. 

celander"I sense an anger management course in the future of at least one contributor here"

Good for you I hope you're mommy can drive you there it will be worth both of your time if you can manage to understand truth, integrity and honor without blaming, insulting or attacking others or concealing, disguising, or denying your true agenda! I( applaud you're candor and will support you in any way Ican in your journey to learn, mature and grow.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8E_zMLCRNg

@clearthink. Why is it that you feel every post concerns you? smh

celander @clearthink. Why is it that you feel every post concerns you? smh"

I already told you if you want me to "move on" you should file a request, complaint, or demand with the moderator's who manage this group I plan to participate here as long as I please if only to expose cheats, liars and bullies such as yourself for the ignorant, opinionated and misguided fools that you are!

This thread seems to show what happens when troll meets troll. It reminds me of the old "Spy vs. Spy" cartoons in Mad magazine, except those cartoons were actually amusing ... or at least they seemed that way. But I should be forgiven for that - I was probably only 10 or 11 years old at the time.

cleeds"This thread seems to show what happens when troll meets troll..."

Cleeds is a winkley dinkler and doesn't it appears actually own any audio equipment  at all even though in every thread he posts he claims to own the Music Reproduction System component that is the subject of the discussion or otherwise previously owned the  Music Reproduction System component that is the topic, subject or focus of the thread therein. 

It's a MAD MAD MAD MAD World. 

Ha, I’ve never been described as a conservative before; my Libertarian friends disagree! I’ve always thought the left/right, conservative/liberal (oops, I mean progressive) construct is way too simplistic.

Well, this thread is officially off the rails. I’m moving on. 

Too bad this is devolving into a pissy thread.  Addicted to Outrage?

@hifiman5 thank you for your initial share/post. I’d love to understand why the Mods deleted the thread, though. Did you ever inquire with them? Just curious. 

@celander   Thanks for asking.  In all candor, I do think I included what could be regarded as political references in the original thread and that is why it was deleted.  Other posters here mentioned this and, in the interest of accepting constructive criticism, they were right.

I’m satisfied with the thread ending as it stands. Thanks, for everyone’s contributions!

celander "I’m satisfied with the thread ending as it stands. Thanks, for everyone’s contributions!"

Well you are certainly very welcome however it appears here that you are laboring under a mistaken, misunderstood, or confused notion that even as the OP you have the right, power, or influence to declare, pronounce, or insist that the thread ends here. It is apparent and obvious to all who have followed in this thread your obvious, deliberate, and even insidious premeditated effort to introduce politics and your own opaque personal agenda into what otherwise would be a simple forum for the exchange of thoughts and ideas about music and audio. In fact this most recent exultation from you that this thread has now ended follows a previous notice from you made within this thread that "this thread is officially off the rails. I’m moving on" but you seem unable to move on because of you’re apparent inner need to obfuscate, confuse, and conceal and of course you can delete this thread as the OP but you can not do that because of you're own ego and sense of personal grandeur.

Wait! It can't end yet ... I have to thank you all for the great laugh that put me in a great mood. Comedy always seems to relax me. Now, I'm ready for bed. G'night. :-)

Frank

PS: I'm continually pleased and in awe at the intelligence of many who post on this site. The wit and prose keeps me coming back.

If any post gets deleted, just re-post and start a pissing match....it's the 21st century way!!!!   

It IS an interesting topic. High End as usually discussed in this forum is essentially Right Wing  as it is dependent in large part on large incomes or trust funds AND a tendency to make up it's own "facts".  Note I said Hign End. Music playback engineering can be basically neutral.
Music on the other hand  leans more Left Wing, at least the huge protest and "common man" perspective of most Rock Folk and Jazz., and a lot of classical. I understand <Music> as organized vibration,  informed by theory and art  is proba ly neutral.  There are obvious ironies listening to Robert Johnson on 40,000 dollar rigs. (Not saying it's bad, just food for thought.).

As with most things, political discourse is susceptible to being generalized a bit much. To wit: Plenty of folks on the left have really nice (read: expensive) audio  systems. 

calander,

clearthink went on a direct attack on you for what he described as your "political reasons." Unless something was deleted that I'm unaware of, I'm not quite sure what you did wrong. Or maybe something I am mis-understanding???

The only things deleted here( quite rightly imho) were Clearthinks ( what an oxymoron if ever I read one!) somewhat deluded rants.

However the amusement factor was a solid 10.

Most of my audio friends are "left wingers." Some are radical left wingers. I’m to the right of Darth Vader. As a consequence, I discuss music during listening sessions, except for my friend Robert, who I converted long ago. :-)

What ever you do, if your views are libertarian or conservative, never ... never ... EVER ... enter into a political discussion with Michael Fremer. *lol*

Frank

@oregonpapa 1+ 😂

Everybody has to be somewhere. 😬

^^^ Bending human nature for the purpose of attaining a political goal, or for transforming society in search of Utopia has never made sense to me. Individual liberty, free markets and free minds does make sense to me.

Believe me, I’ve been called a "radical" right winger so many times it isn’t funny. My response is always the same ... If Thomas Jefferson was a "radical," count me in his camp. :-)

Frank

I am surprised this one is still living ..... I will check back tomorrow .

Frank is like the Energizer bunny. He just keeps going and going and... 🐇

I admit that I thought that celander’s post in question was his original and would continue thinking so had it not been for others who objected. I am not sure if that would be considered plagiarism, when an uninformed person is not given clear explanation, but I understand that many people quote others with no ill intentions. For whatever reason, I feel that was the case here. Not exactly pretending those are his own words, but instead probably thinking everybody would have recognized them. Those of us who did not know any better were slightly mislead, but no harm was done. Now we learned something. Even two new names.

As for the text itself, nicely written, but must be from some old time. Parts of it are barely relevant these days although hard to dispute outside of the reasonably-willing group.

When I read the post it sounded familiar which prompted me to look it up it's  not from that long ago. Moorehead was a pastor at one of those mega churches until he was forced out for the usual reasons which those who care can look up. 

Now it makes sense. Sweet, wise-appearing, but really not much if you scrutinize it. (I am talking about original, not celander's placement of the quote in this thread).

@glupson "I am not sure if that would be considered plagiarism"

Getting my bachelors degree in the 90s, the university took plagiarism very seriously, and specifically defined it as using 4 or more consecutive words from another source without giving credit to that source.  As a condition of attendance, students needed to commit to the academic integrity standards.  The penalty for plagiarism was a zero for the assignment, failure for the class, and referral for review for expulsion.  Afterwards I pursued two degrees from other schools, both maintained similar standards.

Although I never gave it much thought in those days as a teenager, I've come to regard plagiarism with the same level of disdain as my alma mater.  If you have the time to put the effort into copying and pasting someone else's work and thought, you have the time to credit them for same.  And you should certainly have the integrity to do so.  Plagiarism is theft.  Those who engage in it attempt to rob a person of something that inherently and rightly belongs to them

trelja,

I agree on all of your points about plagiarism. However, in this particular case I think it may be a little bit softer case. What I have learned since first reading celander’s post is that those words are quite well-known. I had no clue, but it also seems that I may be the only one reading this thread who had never heard/read it. In light of that, it might have been just an innocent quote that celander expected everyone knew and that he used to emphasize whatever he wanted to emphasize with it. Sort of like me writing "I can’t get no satisfaction" in some post without explicitly giving credit to actual writers of the song. I would expect that everyone knows about it, especially in the forum like this, and that nobody would think I was pretending it was mine from the beginning of time.

Of course, I have no idea what celander actually thought while writing, but I would give him benefit of the doubt on this one. He does not come across as a fool who would think he could sell something this widely-known to a spectatorship like this. Around here, everyone is just waiting to jump and tear apart. True, it would have been no arguing had he started with "to paraphrase XYZ...", but hat the heck.

Again, as far as plagiarism goes, I agree with you 100%.

To be in tune with this thread...

And I’m neither left or right
I’m just staying home tonight
Getting lost in that hopeless little screen

(Not my lyrics, but as true as it gets)

Plagiarism is a creature of academia and journalism, pertaining to usurping another’s work as one’s own without attribution. In only those areas, it serves as a check on intellectual integrity and breaches therefrom. Those in academia and journalism could care less about asking permission to use another’s work. So as noble as these disciplines might be under the plagiarism doctrine, there remains an unspoken intellectual dishonesty at the core of these disciplines.

Copyright is a commercial embodiment related to plagiarism, but differs from plagiarism in a key respect. Copyright concerns usurping another’s work as one’s own without securing permission from the original author. That is, in copyright, the focus is not simply attribution, because it doesn’t matter whether the usurper actually is aware of the original work. Permission is what matters, and damages can flow therefrom when permission is not granted.

The doctrine of Fair Use provides an exception to the iron fist of the copyright laws. Most of academia and journalism uses of copyrighted work typically avoid damages from copyright infringement under this doctrine. Parody is another strain of Fair Use that spares one the ravages of copyright infringement.

Now patents are a different creature apart from plagiarism and copyrights. Patents liberally include the work of others, regardless of attribution or permission. This flows necessarily from the nature of patents—building upon the inventive works of others as embodied in the prior art. So blindly copying and pasting into a patent application information obtained from a number of sources without attribution or permission is tolerated and encouraged, provided such content is within the prior art. Nevertheless, patents can be found to be unenforceable should the patentee not fully disclose to the USPTO Examiner all printed publications, patents or other information material to the patentability of their claimed invention, to the extent of their being aware of such information. 

I am far from being knowledgeable about these plagiarism, copyright, and patent issues (although I think that my previous post was basically talking about fair use of those earlier quotes). However, I think that most of the academic works (published studies and such) do contain references somewhere at the end.

They all do. 

Nailed it:



clearthink500 posts08-09-2018 7:52pm
celander "I’m satisfied with the thread ending as it stands. Thanks, for everyone’s contributions!"

Well you are certainly very welcome however it appears here that you are laboring under a mistaken, misunderstood, or confused notion that even as the OP you have the right, power, or influence to declare, pronounce, or insist that the thread ends here. It is apparent and obvious to all who have followed in this thread your obvious, deliberate, and even insidious premeditated effort to introduce politics and your own opaque personal agenda into what otherwise would be a simple forum for the exchange of thoughts and ideas about music and audio. In fact this most recent exultation from you that this thread has now ended follows a previous notice from you made within this thread that "this thread is officially off the rails. I’m moving on" but you seem unable to move on because of you’re apparent inner need to obfuscate, confuse, and conceal and of course you can delete this thread as the OP but you can not do that because of you're own ego and sense of personal grandeur.