Decisions on standmounts: ATC, Dynaudio, ProAc, Sonus Faber

I think I understand. I listen to (noisy) vintage recordings from time to time; speaker designs like the ATC are very good at helping me enjoy the performance because they are good at separating the music from the noise. The Spendors provide a bigger sound than your present speakers, and I believe you will find it similar if more engaging. Good luck!

@gregm  Judging from the 2nd hand sale posts here at Malaysia, obviously ATC is not a speakers I can play, first need very proper gear match, and it seem most do not, second the sound can be a bit revealing judging from most impressions stated, after many speakers trying, neutral is not the sound I want to play with, at least not someone who appreciate old school music or some high noise recordings, I need a speakers that can tune down those noise signals frequency. Sonetto I turns out not my cup of tea, as net as detailed as clear as it get, it's not engaging and musical enough to listen to, finding gears to bring out that is usually not my path. I hope Spendor Classic line will not disappoint, who knows?

OK, let me suggest an easy one: try comparing the Sonetto with the ATC 20s, failing that the ATC 19s.
The 20s are better than the 19s, but both are very dynamic, engaging, and neutral---overal, very pleasant to listen to.If you listen to classical, you should consider getting a separate subwoofer for low frequency extension.

@ kenjit

if the recording is "pleasing" then it's fine. But I don't want the speakers (or anything else in the chain) to "please" it for me. So I go for accurate speakers/monitors capable of producing loud levels at low distortion with high resolution and dynamics. For me ATC, Westlake and more recently Quested fulfills that. There are many more of course. When the recording is fine they give me the best of sound. Real music is not always pleasing. It can be really hard and brutal :-)

The Quested monitor (passive) H108 together with a pair of REL T Zero subs I can recommend any day to someone that wants a beautiful sounding (but not too small...) desk top system. Driven by a PW AMP.

Win, I’ve only heard the Aerial’s one time and Bob James was the music. They were the best sounding small speakers I’ve heard. Did not listen to drum music.

@audiotroy I think all the odd figures for home consumer, i.e. ATC SCM(7,11,19), frequently I heard people said it is hard to drive ATC speakers properly, said need Class A blah blah etc. Do you think a Class D Audio SDS-470C or an NAD M22 V2 power amp enough to make the ATC sing beautifully?

Kenjit the ATC loudspeakers are for home use. They make a consumer version of the studio monitors. 

Right on the website under Consumer.

As per musicality the ATC sound fantastic they are not overly colored and they do show you what you are using with them. If your electronics are not good or your source they are going to show you.

The ATC loudspeakers are not hyper critical either, the soft dome tweeter is extended but doesn not have that uber resolution of the best ribbon or Beryilium drivers which can sometimes sound a bit too sterile or revealing.

Basically most soft dome tweeters are going to sound "musical" the difference is how someone perceive musical vs downright colored.

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ ATC dealers

@gosta They are for studio use not home. They are designed to sound accurate rather than pleasing. 

+ 1 shadorne
Always interesting views and experience from you. So far havn’t had any problems with the mid but promise to raise the volume. Don’t really understand how they manage to get this bass into a not to large box. Massive though. Weighs a ton... :-)

A warm recommendation for anyone with big ATC’s (or similar):

Durand Jones & The Indications - "First". Last nine tracks Live from Boston.

@gphill Aerial Acoustics 5T sound ok with drum music? I suspect due to the woofers cone shape, it can be hard to move for drum music, also it's ring tweeters used, not sure I can stand harshness when playing Aretha's Ain't No Way...

@markalarsen  Both are not available easily in Malaysia, I'm not sure Ryan S610 can play some less than perfect recording in a mesmerizing way? Also the Joseph Audio Pulsar is double of my budget o_O, which I think I can buy a larger Spendor Classic which has more bass dynamic and extension.

The Aerial 5t’s are very nice.

In this price range, new, you should listen to the Ryan S610. In the used market, think about the Joseph Audio Pulsars. 

@gosta



+1

Agreed.

Quested are great and a cheaper active alternative to ATC and others but the midrange will be limited in SPL - that vifa mid range is woefully small.....and it doesn’t have a double spider so guaranteed to get the polywobbles at higher output...

https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/approx-3-midrange/scanspeak-discovery-d7608/9200-10-3-dome-midrange-d75mx41/

I think it was a price point decision by Quested. They used a great woofer and incredible bass extension but to keep overall cost down they went with this vifa mid range...

Good summary here from someone who selected the V3110 over ATC 25...

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/showpost.php

In essence, Quested is an incredible all round full range speaker at an excellent more affordable price point. As long as the OP is willing to give up a wee bit of mid range detail in exchange for better bang for the buck and a lot closer to full range bass (great advantage). The crossovers to the mid range are at 650Hz lower and 2.5KHz upper which means two crossovers in the mid range and it only covers 2 octaves where ATC covers 3+.

Quested v3110 has it all. End of game.

While the speakers are very revealing, they also present the music in a way that most recordings sound listenable, I can listen for hours on hours without any fatigue, they are very musical, but the most outstanding thing about them, is the way one can pick a instrument and follow it trough the melody and still hear all the melody at the same time, and one does not need to concentrate when doing this, it just comes natural.
They of course have the famous bbc bass hump, but it works very well, giving the music a nice foundation, the bass is very good, but falls of at 50hz or a bit lower, depending on room they are in.
The speakers excels on Classical, small, but also large assembly works very well, violins and piano sound great, Jazz also work unbelievable well, so well, that it has made me listen to more and more jazz.
I am surprised how well it can play Blues, a favorite of mine, also if a room is not too large, it can play Rock and Pop music just fine, although if you listen more to heavier rock/punk, metal, then I would probably look elsewhere, or get a sub or two.

@gryphongryph The Graham is a British traditional speakers which sound forgiving for old school music too right?

I ended up buying the Graham Audio LS 5/9 after hearing the Harbeth 30.1, A speaker I had been longing for, for many years.
I like the midrange better on the Graham’s, feels more balanced to me and the bass is more exciting I feel.

@twoleftears Spendor Classic 100 of course would an ideal end game choice for pure music HiFi listening speakers, reality is out of my budge a lot haha, the bookshelf Classic 3/1 I would assume is big enough for me.

I heard the Classic 100 last year, and thought it really really good. Very dynamic and yet very listenable.

I have been listened enough with the Sonus Faber Sonetto I, hmm I think the sound is neutral and flat across the spectrum, kinda lack coloration for some poorer recordings, which can be higher noise to my ears. I would plan on to attempt Spendor Classic 3/1 next, which from begin should be my first try before anything else in the market, how could I miss it? Anybody has faith in Spendor Classic line? The price of the bookshelf just roughly same or maybe even cheaper than Sonetto II I believe, and it's made in England, with some LS 3/5a brilliant magic?

Buchardt s400?

@jaybe I'll try it someday, I'm curious what amp you use to drive the ATC SCM19? Is it V2 with the latest new ATC tweeters?

I have  had ATC SCM 19v2 for a couple years now and see no need to ever purchase another pairt of speakers.

They're in a different league than the other speakers you mention.

Around $5k
You should try:
Dynaudio C20
PMC Twenty.5 22
B&W 805d3
Will be good match to M22v2
and you need to try M12

I'm already started listening to the Sonus Faber Sonetto I, sound pretty neutral light as first impression, without any hint of harshness, the bass dynamic is definitely better than Wharfedale Denton, though I think still need time to judge the break up process of the woofers and how well it perform with various complex tracks. At this price, excellent speakers design & craftsmanship by Italian,  I think they beat Harbeth in terms of build quality & materials used, sound wise I cannot comment much yet, stay tune!

+1 @kenjit 

Fully agree with you on this. Most speakes have a very uneven freq. response placed in a normal listening room. Can easily differ 
+/- 10 db.  And these "real" freq. curves looks very different from speaker to speaker. That's why they also sound different. Shouldn't be like that. The difference should be in other areas like resolution, dynamics, spl capacity and so on. Big problem when you want a speaker that plays well on all kinds of music. ATC comes close to that though. After running the signal through a good room and speaker calibration system they begin to sound similar though. For your information waiting for the Quested V3110 monitor which I hope will be the end of the search.

If I wanted something really different I wouldn't choose a Sonus Faber speaker. 
.

Final decision set on a pair of Sonus Faber Sonetto I wood finish with stands...

@wim1983 

Hej
I have a pair ATC SCM 19v2 and I think they are very good and very neutral. There are two things you should know about them; to sound the best they need power and to be played at at least "normal" listening volume.

I suppose if we all heard the same way we would only need 1-2 brands

I disagree that dynaudio exite and special 40 is better than contour S1.4LE . S1.4LE limited edition compares to confidence c1.If you can, get Limited edition,not original S1.4:) 

You want a good pair of speakers to play with as a second pair? For me, hands down for the money are the new Magnepan LRS (Little Ribbon Speakers) only $650/pair! They are so musical. Bass was not lacking. Not better, maybe, than some box speakers with good enclosures, crossovers and bass drivers, but very good. But at $650 they are the biggest bargain on the planet. I auditioned them and spoke to Wendell at Axpona. All the money left over you can use to put them on MyeStands and spend on other parts of your system, like power and interconnects. 

Ascend Acoustics Sierra 2's with RAAL tweeters sure seem to fit  more better than then most mentioned.

Check out Totem Model 1’s or Totem Mani 2’s, or Usher mini-x. All stand mount and very good sounding

AudioNote anyone? Good luck finding a pair to hear.
They were at Axpona last week so I had a chance.
The ATC 50’s were great in the mid but too bright
for my poor ears. Spendor D7 or D9 are the ones I like.
Whoops, not floor standers though are they. Are you short
of space? Curious why the standers appeal to you?
Spendor 100's then. Another impossible speaker to locate.

Nothing mentioned above sounds as sweet as this speaker with the Class D Audio SDS 470C amp. I have both, along with a lot of other greats. But this combo sounds as good as it gets!

Wavetouch Audio Antero or Grand Teton: http://wavetouchaudio.com/products.html

Next choice would be Proac Response D2, which is oustanding, but the the Antero is better.

ATC’s would be in the running (really superb resolution)... but... you have to spend a lot more money to get the sound you want (e.g. ATC SCM20sl and up).

All of these have the HD600 sound quality, or even better... the Grado RS1 sound quality, both of which I have.

@three_easy_payments I'm just shocking to notice that actually, initially I thought my new NAD M22 v2 is not as good as my previous power amp, not as sweet smooth engaging, but then after some listenings, the NAD power amp turns out to be a HD master, so accurate which unbelievable make my Wharfedale Denton sing near neutrally (everything sound flat, clean clear and dimentional as a picture to sound, while I will not consider as clinical and analytical though), perhaps the ports noise and amp matching still contribute to your little warm impression in this case.

@wim1983 

Interesting that you describe the Dentons as being neutral and accurate.  I have a pair of them as well in a 2nd system and find them warm, not neutral and not exactly accurate but highly engaging - this is with both SS and tube gear.  I really do like the speakers, especially for the price but would describe them completely differently.  It's just interesting how all of us perceive sound so differently.  No wonder there is a bazillion choices on the market!

Merlin TSM, if you can find a used pair.

Spendor makes some nice stand mount speakers!

@audiotroy

what do you think of the q acoustics concept 300 or 500?

Smooth! 

That has nothing to do with speakers. A speaker is just a device that is supposed to accurately reproduce the cd you play. Some speakers are incorrectly tuned to alter the stereo image to produce deeper or wider images. That is supposed to be fixed at the stage of the production and mastering of the track. So yes there is only one correct way. Same thing with tonality. People like to compare the tonality of speakers but that is all supposed to be done using equalisers at the production stage. 

In conclusion, most speakers are wrong, perhaps all of them. I dont know which speakers are closest to the truth. Nobody seems to agree.

Kenjit that is ridiculous. A BMW and Mercedes are both great German cars is one better or more fundimentally correct?  

@audiotroy 

We have the ATC SCM 11 and the SCM 19 in the same room as the Ref 1 and the Paradigm Persona B they all sound dramatically different.

well in which case the question is why do they sound dramatically different? All those speakers are two ways. They are all high end. They all use non resonant rigid boxes with bracing. why should there be such huge differences? one possible answer is that the crossover is wrong. Ive said this before. They cant all be right. At least one or more of those speakers are designed incorrectly. 

@twoleftears Thanks for the suggestion, I'm afraid the speakers is not available in Malaysia.

http://www.ryanspeakers.com/Products/Products/Products/S610.html

@freediver  @yogiboy  I think I have mentioned I'm not looking for an upgrade? Did I? I'm looking to hear something more neutral, I believe Harbeth speakers are musical, having said that no perfect speakers, I heard a pair of Harbeth SHL5 Plus speakers, I think it's a bit bright due to the metal tweeters, guess need proper matching with some gears too. I believe M30.1 is the more appropriate musical speakers for most people, but then I already got something similar which is the Wharfedale Denton, the price difference is so huge too, so for that reason I would not spend too much to get a similar sound.