Pity Munich is cancelled, I was looking forward to meeting up with Cube.
Cube Audio Nenuphar Single Driver Speaker (10 inch) TQWT Enclosure
Cube Audio (Poland) designs single drivers and single driver speakers.
Principals are Grzegorz Rulka and Marek Kostrzyński.
Link to the Cube Audio Nenuphar (with F10 Neo driver) speaker page:
https://www.cubeaudio.eu/cube-audio-nenuphar
Link to 6Moons review by Srajan Ebaen (August 2018):
https://6moons.com/audioreview_articles/cubeaudio2/
* Frequency response may vary and depends on room size and accompanying electronic equipment.
Principals are Grzegorz Rulka and Marek Kostrzyński.
Link to the Cube Audio Nenuphar (with F10 Neo driver) speaker page:
https://www.cubeaudio.eu/cube-audio-nenuphar
Link to 6Moons review by Srajan Ebaen (August 2018):
https://6moons.com/audioreview_articles/cubeaudio2/
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Parameters (from Cube Audio):
Power: 40 W
Efficiency: 92 dB
Frequency response: 30Hz - 18kHz ( 6db)*
Dimensions: 30 x 50 x 105 cm
Weight: 40 Kg
* Frequency response may vary and depends on room size and accompanying electronic equipment.
1,567 responses Add your response
It seems to me that the Gold Note amplifier’s DF switch is actually manipulating the level of NFB. As NFB is increased the DF increases and the output impedance and gain level decreases. I have no experience with the Townsend isolation platforms but I do not doubt their ability to improve the performance of speakers and audio components. Effective management of resonance and vibration is definitely worth pursuing. I can attest to the considerable positive attributes of the Star Sound Apprentice platforms beneath speakers and components. These are excellent well engineered products. Their impact is undeniable in my audio system. Geoffkait's explanation for the necessity of a wide/large footprint to ensure good isolation makes much sense to me. Charles |
david_ten, thank you, I appreciate the appreciation! :) I did not mention the review with any intent to draw you away from your current amp, just for general info to the community. It IS shocking, how fundamental a shift in character of sound attributes a system can undergo. That holds true for the genre of speaker, the caliber of the speaker, and the development of the audio system. There are dozens of levels of sound quality at a minimum. It is also surprising how quickly we can change our allegiance based on acceptance of another set of criteria, or being impressed by operational strengths of a speaker or system. My "problem" ( I surely do not see it as that, however) is that I love all the genres of high fidelity speakers! |
@khragon Congratulations on your excellent results with your First Watt SIT-2 Thanks also for sharing the photo. Very nice. Question: based on the photo it 'appears' your seating position is farther back...how far? And do your speakers cross-over behind you (they look to be set up with minimal toe-in)? Thanks. |
This is a nice thread. A couple of thoughts based on system building... Regarding whizzer cones, having used concentric, dynamic, hybrid dynamic, and full range hybrid speakers, I find whizzer cones to be no impediment to consideration of a speaker's sound as exquisite. I am currently using various speakers with whizzer cones and find they are as capable as any of achieving resolution on a par with very different drivers including ceramic, metal, etc. Regarding damping factor, I had an interesting review of the Gold Note PA-1175 MkII for Dagogo.com, which offers an on the fly Damping Factor switch. This is one of the most curious and beneficial amp functions I have found in a SS amp. at DF of 25 the amp sounds quite like a SET (only with more power) and at DF of 250 it acquires the characteristics expected more of SS. It reveals how much DF does influence the speaker's performance. My experience was that lower DF will cause a plumping and slight rounding of the bass with less absolute cleanness on edges of notes, while higher DF does the opposite. |
grannyring The Townshend podiums are size 4 with load capacity E which starts at 85lbs so I put a couple of VPI bricks on top of each speaker since they are about 80lbs each. geoffkait Makes sense. |
stevendunn My only complaint is that the foot print of the podium is fairly large and not wildly attractive. I’m sure Cube and Townshend could design something that was a more compact part of the speaker (purchased as an option?). Yes it would raise the speaker price by $2K or so, but the improvement IMHO is more than worth it. >>>>>It’s not obvious but the footprint of the iso device must be large to obtain the required lateral stability for objects with high center of gravity. Sure, you could make the springs stiffer with a smaller footprint but then the device wouldn’t isolate as well. |
Steve, glad you tried isolating the speakers and heard an improvement. I think this is definitely something most speakers would benefit from. Townshend are a good commercially available product that work with a variety of speakers. My Townshend platforms can accommodate both the 8 and 10 inch Nenuphar’s. I still use the spikes and cups at the front, they just sit on the aluminium platforms. I secure the cups in place with industrial double sided tape. |
khragon Great news you like the synergy with the SIT-2. Look forward to hearing more. My latest development is putting the Nenuphar's on Townshend Podiums (I've been using them under my speakers for a few years). toetapaudio listed the many benefits of this isolation device, so I"ll just say that the cumulative effect takes the speakers to another level I wasn't even thinking was there (the curse of the audiophile). Music sounds untethered to anything creating it, it just fills the space in the room quite effortlessly with no emphasis on transients or any part of the frequency range. Kind of a jaw dropper when you first hear it. My only complaint is that the foot print of the podium is fairly large and not wildly attractive. I'm sure Cube and Townshend could design something that was a more compact part of the speaker (purchased as an option?). Yes it would raise the speaker price by $2K or so, but the improvement IMHO is more than worth it. |
Hi khragon's, Congratulations and I'm so happy with your very successful results. It is just as the Cube Audio owner/designer would have predicted for you. He designed the driver with a very light mass paper cone and an extraordinary powerful magnet motor assembly to absolutely provide excellent damping control. A high DF amplifier will simply over damp the driver leading to a dead/lifeless sound quality just as you described. The Klipsch is a very different speaker and would very likely benefit from increased DF. Horses for courses. The S.I.T.-2 is a splendid choice as you now can affirm. Charles |
Received my Nenuphar.. https://photos.app.goo.gl/sWgZmZ8UhqSVTbgw5 You guys are right on the amp pairing, the best pairing is with the SIT-2, Srajan is spot on in his assessment. SIT-2 with its low damping factor brought life to the music, there’s deep bass, meat on the bones with vocals while the highs isn’t affected. Schiit Aegir monoblocks with >100 DF is behind SIT-2 but the jump to >150 DF of the BHK250 is night and day compare to the Schiit, with the BHK music got noticeably thinner, colder... wow I never knew DF have such huge impact, glad I got my hand on the SIT-2. I would of been happy with the Aegirs, but definitely would not be happy with the BHK, it’s that big a difference. The BHK was very good with my Cornwall III, another instance of synergy is everything in hifi audio. |
I am wondering who else has heard various single driver systems and can compare the results. I would love to hear something like the big AER system with the huge back-load horn and front wave-guide horn. I know that Classic Audio has a field coil model (T-8), but, I have not heard that one either. I heard a Classic Audio prototype that used a fullrange field coil in combination with a woofer module. In terms of vibrancy and immediacy, which I love about these types of speakers, it was fantastic. But, it had a hard edge to transients and was very sibilant; a work in progress, but, I do hope to hear it with that issue tamed. The other good thing about most of these fullrange systems is that they work so well with the kinds of amps I favor, which is low-powered amps. I own three tube amps, the most powerful being rated at 6.5 watts per channel. |
"...a bit lacking in warmth, a bit rough sounding in the upper midrange and had a pronounced peak in the treble range." Interesting that the above accurately describes what I was hearing during the first 25 hours or so of playing the Nenuphars. (Also interesting that during the first 5 hours of play they actually sounded better.) I'm at about 55 hours now and will wait to 100+ to give further impressions. |
larryi. Just to be clear I welcome your listening impressions and opinion. There is no ’perfect’ speaker and that’s a fact. I found your critique interesting as I believe David had some concerns about full range single driver speakers that you mentioned. Fortunately for him these concerns/fears did not materialize in his system. I know his experience with the Nenuphars has been outstanding. David forgive if I’m putting words in your mouth. BTW David is using the superb Found Music 2A3 SET mono blocks. Charles |
It might very be the case that the show room (small hotel room) and the accompanying electronics were not ideal--they rarely are, but, I have some experience listening to gear under these circumstances so I have a rough handle on what the speakers sound like. I heard them in near-field conditions, so I know a bit more than if I heard them in some very large space where bad sound is most often the result of a bad room. Please don't misunderstand, I actually liked the speaker. I am also very much drawn to speakers that sound vivid, alive and do micro-dynamics well (which IS the case of the Nenuphar). But, I pointed out what I saw as some shortcomings (all speakers have them) because that is, to me, more informative than unconditional ravings. Because speakers like the Nenuphar deliver a sound that is so much more vivid than the typical audiophile speaker, it is easy to be caught up in its strengths and not become aware of what would be more serious issues if you own them and had to live with them in the long term. I did that myself when I first became aware of what many high efficiency systems (e.g. horn systems) can do. By the way, I find it interesting that you mentioned the S.I.T-3 amp. A friend of mine built his own S.I.T. amp from the design Nelson Pass made publicly available and it is one of a handful of solid state amps that I like. Another one is the Nelson Pass First Watt J-2 which I borrowed from the same friend. I would not consider either amp "warm," at least tonally, but, they were very musically engaging and did not sound lifeless (which is the case with many solid state amps). |
Hi larryi, Your assessment of the Nenuphar makes me curious as to what components were used upstream in the signal path. I’ve become convinced that the Nenuphar simply delivers what it is fed. Srajan of 6 Moons has particularly made this point on several occasions. While this could be said of any number of good quality speakers it seems especially so in regard to the Nenuphar. David whose ears I trust has owned these speakers for a year and has had none of the shortcomings you identified. Now to be fair David has truly excellent components in his system and no doubt this is a factor. But this makes my point as to the impressive honesty of the Nenuphar. Larry as always I appreciate your informed insight and comments. For an example of upstream changes, Srajan noted this speaker sounds crystal clear and a ’touch’ nordic cool with the Bakoon amp. The speaker clearly sounds warmer/fuller/richer with the S.I.T.-3 amp. So the sound heard via the Nenuphar is ’quite’ different merely by changing the power amplifier. Charles |
This speaker is said to break out of the typical mold you refer to? Owners and reviewers certainly don’t hear the same sonic traits you mention. Perhaps the show was not an ideal venue to hear these and it could be the speakers were young in play hours? Very different take on this speaker compared to what I have been reading and learning. It always amazes me how gear with little play time is often used to showcase at shows. This is not putting your best foot forward in terms of sales and marketing strategy. Cannot help but think this was at play here. Good to read your comments as all perspectives are helpful. |
I heard the Nenuphars at the 2019 Capital Audiofest. I liked, in part, what I heard. Typical of the breed, it sounded very lively and engaging. But, again typical of the breed, it was short on deep bass, a bit lacking in warmth, a bit rough sounding in the upper midrange and had a pronounced peak in the treble range. Whether the undeniably great attributes of such a speaker outweigh the negatives is a matter of taste. In part, it would matter what one listens to most frequently. To me, the Nenuphars sounded very good with jazz, particularly where brass instruments are prominent. They also sounded good with vocal pop music. But, they lacked the weight and ability to deliver power when large-scale classical music was played. So far, I've only heard a couple of single driver systems that I could easily live with myself. One is the Voxativ Ampeggio, the other is the Charney Audio system. I particularly like the Charney. I've heard their speaker with the AER and Voxativ driver, and I particularly like the AER driver (a little bit more extended on top, and very smooth). When "full-range" drivers are coupled with other drivers in multi-way systems, the result can be really good. I've heard some amazingly good systems that use full-range drivers as the bass/midrange driver in two way systems, and I've also heard them used as midrange drivers in three way systems. One big advantage of using full range drivers in multi-way systems is that crossovers can be simpler (I heard, and liked, systems where the full range driver is run full range, with a first order high pass filter network on the tweeter-very minimalist crossover). |
With regard to seismic isolation control credit and thanks should go out to the work done by Barry Diament. For those not familiar with his work, here is a paper by Barry on the subject: http://www.barrydiamentaudio.com/vibration.htm |
The Bakoon 13R sounds even better when used with the SATRI Link via BNC from the Bakoon DAC, imo. I don’t think Srajan has tried that yet? Other makes of dac can be connected through RCA of course. I’ve been told that the Denafrips Terminator works well with the Bakoon 13R but not tried myself. Speaker seismic isolation is important as Sven Boenicke and Max Townshend and others, have discovered. |
Bill, good I was able to help to a degree. I hear you on Srajan's style...most lean the way of your assessment. Owning a product he has reviewed, at least for me, has lent itself to much better and higher understanding of his work. Minor correction from the earlier post. Page 6 and Page 7 are relevant! Please know I don't want to torture you with a 6moons reading assignment. : ) Page 7 of Srajan Ebaen’s review of the Nenuphar Mini Basis addresses your question head on. (Link a few posts prior) |
Thanks David. You make some great points which I understand completely and will take to heart. My system seems to be dialed in for this particular speaker with the possible exception of the amp. I am waiting on the builder to get back to me on some questions. I know it is a zero feedback design, however I am not 100% sure about the damping and output impedance specs. As far as Srajan’s review, I must say I find his reviews hard to read and confess I did not read it closely. His style just grates at my patience and mind. Not my favorite reviewer, but understand how others, like yourself, enjoy him. I look forward to hearing the Mini Basis model at Axpona. I have visited with Jon at Refined Audio and he shared the ideal amplifier specs for the speaker. |
@charles1dad Charles, you are most welcome! The review is another gem from Srajan, especially for those who have one or more of the speakers he is discussing. His writing is highly illustrative while being informative. In addition to what you point out in your post, I found his "aquatic water line" ’line’ valuable. : ) [Page 5] I wonder how that line has been lowered for the original (non-BASiS) models, for example: By the efforts Robert ( @toetapaudio ) has made in isolating his Nenuphars via Townshend Seismic Podiums, etc.? Based on photos alone, I haven’t seen evidence that Srajan has applied speaker isolation solutions of his own (for the Nenuphars), other than using the stock spikes and rubber bumpers. Though I realize, understand and appreciate the need to use the stock setup for review purposes. |
David, Thanks for providing the link to the Cube Audio Mini Basis review. The final sentence on page 6 Srajan sums it up well in regard to High End Audio. "The absolute sound is what you like best" His effective weather/climate and coffee analogies for the two amplifiers work well for me. Given my taste/bias in music reproduction, I'd choose the S.I.T.-3 over the obviously excellent (as well) Bakoon. Charles |
@grannyring What follows may come across as apostasizing speaker first thinking....it is not. To begin, I’d like to recognize @stephendunn ’s excellent post. would you say these these speakers are fussy or finicky of the recording quality? The Nenuphars are speakers that "step aside." Simply put, they express "more." The question to ask is whether your system and the components and cabling ahead of your speakers are "fussy" or "finicky?" I’ve found what’s ahead of the Nenuphars to be far more important. In other words, I don’t think about the Nenuphars... which I think is saying a whole lot. In contrast, I have spent a ton of time thinking through my components and critically evaluating them. An aspect which may help answer your concerns (by example) is how incredibly good mainstream popular music sounds. The genre, as you know, is oft derided here for various reasons...however, I’ve been enjoying a wide swath of the genre like never before. Similarly, Stephen and Charles have shared their take on older recordings and how incredibly amazing they can be, notwithstanding their faults. Recordings are far better (especially the ones labelled as not being so) than the critical ’discredit’ heaped upon them. It’s our systems and the way we implement them that (I believe) are responsible to a far greater degree than the recording. does this speaker have good mid bass response avoiding the tendency to sound lean or thin at times? Page 7 of Srajan Ebaen’s review of the Nenuphar Mini Basis addresses your question head on. (Link a few posts prior) I experience mid-bass response to be stellar in tone, timbre, color, texture, impact, naturalness, aliveness, etc. AND variable depending on what is in the chain... recently highlighted and expressed while using two different amps, as well as front end components. Great to hear your Interior Designer spouse approves!!! I believe Cube is now offering custom finishes, by special request. |
Hi Steve, Your Billie Holiday example is an excellent one. As I improved my audio system over the years I became more aware of recording flaws yet this was overpowered by the increased naturalness of tone/timbre nuance just as you observed . This heightened awareness was particularly noticed when I began using my 300b SET amplifiers. The ’naturalness/realism’ factor went up a level without question. I can certainly see how the Nenuphars could have the same effect (if not even more so). Bottom line, you aren’t distracted by recording imperfections. Bill what are your Clayton amp’s specs in regard to Damping Factor Output impedance Utilization of NFB? If you read the initial 6 Moons review of the Nenuphar you'll find considerable discussion on these parameters and their effect on the speaker’s performance. Charles |
@david_ten And, yes, thanks David for pointing out Srajan's latest (which is now finished). I now have the term for what I'm hearing from the Nenuphars driven by the SIT-3: Tuscan sunshine! |
grannyring Although I think I'm the newest Nenuphar owner on the block--just at 2 weeks--I'll chime in with my answer to your question regarding the speakers resolution making "below average sounding recordings sound less enjoyable or possibly bad?" My answer, yes and no. Yes, their resolution reveals more about the recording space/method than any speaker I've owned. But not in a tipped up, etchy way. It's just a natural openness that brings me deeper into the recording. But that resolution doesn't necessarily make below average recordings sound worse. In most cases it made them more interesting, because at the same time the speakers are revealing the recordings quirks it's also revealing the strength (or weakness) of the music. For instance, a lot of Billie Holiday's work is poorly recorded. The speaker doesn't shy away from that but it also brings such tonality and nuance to her voice that you quickly forget the recording quality and are absorbed by what you've never heard before in her singing. On decently to well recorded material the Nenuphars bring you into the recording space like no other. Listening to well recorded live albums can cause a virtual reality experience. On the Marian McPartland album 85 Candles (Live in New York) you not only feel like you're in the audience at Birland but you can hear the patrons clapping on either side of your listening chair! How's that for sound staging! BTW, I just purchased your Acoustic BBQ Dueland 12ga IC for my system. Looking forward to the audition. Steve |
Nenuphar 8 or 10 These speakers really intrigue me. I hope to hear them at Axpona. David and other owners, would you say these these speakers are fussy or finicky of the recording quality? Do they make average to below average sounding recordings sound less enjoyable or possibly bad? I realize most all good speakers reveal the source, but I am wondering if the incredible resolution somehow heightens this reality making it more fussy? Secondly, does this speaker have good mid bass response avoiding the tendency to sound lean or thin at times? I assume closer placement to the wall behind them would help develop this mid bass body. |