I have relatively inefficient speakers (Magnepan 3.7R's) and amps with somewhat low input sensitivity (2.8 V to give 28 dB gain) and yet the volume setting on the CSL is about 9 to 11 o'clock, which gives peak db levels at my listening position of ~ 87 to 90 dB. The current CSL offers 14 dB gain, and the settings from 10 to 2 are 0.5 db increments. Above and below 10 to 2 the graduations are more course.
All of that tells me that with high efficiency speakers, high input sensitivity amps, high output sources, or recordings done at high levels, one could wish for more volume steps.
I was concerned about this issue and discussed it with Israel prior to making the final decision to purchase.
It's just one more box to check on the system matching homework.
And yes, I agree, this is one outstanding preamp. Almost got 24 hours on it now. |
Brownsfan,
The orginial CSL(2009) had 20 db of gain and this was too much for my
system(10/2009).I returned it to Israel and he sent me a unit built with 10
db of gain which is just perfect for me. He can offer different levels of gain
depending on need.My speakers are 94 db at 14 ohms (I use the 16 ohm
tap), amp sensitivity is .7 V and my DAC output is 3..1 volts.
Regards, |
Charles, I asked him about the 10 and 20dB gain options. His answer was pretty much along the lines of "the current CSL has 14 dB of gain. That should put you in the 10 to 2 o'clock area for most of your listening." He appears to have been correct in his prediction, although I think it will tend toward the 10-12 o'clock area.
I think if you were trying to drive his 97 dB efficient speakers with the 20 gain CSL you could have some issues. I don't know if he would have offered a lower gain option if I had pressed the issue. He seemed quite confident the stock unit would work. I would have been concerned about higher gain though. After all, I was using a unity gain passive, and that not ever wide open.
BTW, when I went to bed last night the brightness had passed (~ 5 hrs). After playing at low levels all night and all day, not only is the brightness gone but the lean tonal balance is warming. I just love what i am hearing. |
Brownsfan,
14 db sounds like the right amount of gain for your system's needs.90% of my listening is with the VC set at 11to 1 oclock.Your fun and pleasure with the CSL is in the early stage.Wait until it blossoms, you'll be besides yourself with sheer happiness and admiration. It's really a life long possession piece. Israel is very talented.
Regards, |
Thanks for the update Brownsfan. I agree with Charlesdad comments: your CSL will continue to improve as you use it. Mine has been used for about 300 hours and I can see a significant difference. It sound even more natural, musical than before. Believe me, what you're experiencing is just the beginning of the love story! Personally I now consider it the heart of my system! |
Brownsfan,
You were a longtime advocate for passive units and very happy with their performance. With the active CSL in your system has there been any period of adjustment? How is the music presentation altered? How is dynamic contrast,tone and timbre different if at all?
Regards, |
Charles1dad, I have a good 100 hours on the CSL now. Much to my relief, at this point there has been absolutely no aberration in tone or timbre and the the CSL is just dead silent. Dynamics, as expected, is much improved, but not at all in an unnatural sense. I have heard many actives that had all kinds of dynamics--sounded quite impressive if you had no live acoustic music frame of reference. But for me they sounded like hi-fi, not music.
Not long ago, I started a thread asking for recommendations on putting together a system specifically for listening the chamber music. Before introduction of the CSL, it was normally difficult if not impossible to discern in space the location of the 1st and 2nd violins. The CSL just nails it! Image, especially depth of image, is really impressive. Looks like it wasn't the Maggies, it was the Promitheus. It was a good thread with a lot of great suggestions, but now, I don't know if that project is really necessary. Might still be fun, but maybe not really necessary.
There is no downside at all as far as I am concerned with the CSL.
I think the passive vs active debate is still relevant below a certain price point. With the CSL, we are beyond that price point.
|
Brownsfan,
I'm happy the CSL is all you hoped it'd be.I know how wonderful it is but you can't predict another person's outcome with a given component.I, as you do, use live acoustic music as my reference point. This method effectively separates the true music reproducers from the artificial hifi sound. I imagine your system sounds natural and beautiful.
Regards, |
Received a new Coincident Statement Linestage last week. Paired with Hypex NCore NC400 based monoblocks, running a balanced configuration.
Israel shipped it day after payment and I got it within 7 days.
It's really very good. Transparent, dynamic, detailed, smooth, and spacious. It also runs cool, and is quiet, no tube hiss, no hum, and no noise of any kind. It is without any fault I can identify.
Music is detailed, extended, and fast -- but coherent and, well just plain musical. You can listen with a critical ear if you want or sit back and enjoy the tempo and flow of music without distraction.
I'm very happy. |
Wilsynet,
Congratulations! Of course I agree with your early impressions(it will continue to improve with time).The CSL is a world class line stage and legitimately competes with the very best irrespective of cost.Did you own a Shindo preamp at one time?Sorry if I confused you with another gon member.I find it difficult to listen to with a critical mind set.The natural sound and emotional involvement it provides just pulls you into the music,completely.
Regards, |
Hi everyone, my first post at AG.
After reading the online rewievs and some threads at this forum,
I decided to order the CSLS. Audition was not an option since I live
in Sweden. Well, it finally arrived and yes, I'm in love. It has about
100 hours of break in now. I sit here with the silly " I'm in love smile "
and some tears in between. The short story is that the CSLS will make
you love your music more. It is so natural and emotional.
Special thanks to Charles1dad. Your post about the CSLS gave me
confidence to go for it!!! Everything you and others said about it is true.
If you ever come to Sweden you will have free beer at my place.
Anybody out there who has experience runing it balanced ?
I do but never heard through the RCA in/utputs.
Best regards,
Mikko
Sweden |
Yes, I owned a Shindo Aurieges for a little while. Vocals are superb but otherwise it was a bit too romantic for me, murky and veiled compared to a Lightspeed LDR, a TRL Dude, an Atma-sphere MP-3 and the CSL.
My I understanding is that the more expensive Shindo preamps are also more transparent.
By way of comparison to the CSL:
From my memory only, the Atma-sphere MP-3 has a bit more drive and bass impact and I recall is a bit more extended. But also the MP-3 has a higher noise floor, a bit of tube hiss and was (in my antiquated house) somewhat sensitive to dirty power and voltage sags.
TRL Dude is more romantic, a bit more tonally colorful (which I liked). But its size (truly gigantic) and proportions (the volume knob is bigger than the palm of my hand), its outrageous style (the word "Dude" is what, 4" tall?) make it inappropriate in a shared space. If I were to ever have a dedicated listening room, the TRL would go back on the short list.
The CSL is characteristically in between the TRL Dude and the MP-3. But neither in my opinion are as neutral and balanced in presentation as the CSL.
Build quality is first rate, switches feel robust and expensive. Quiet, noiseless, unfussy. I feel it will endure a lifetime of use, or at least 20 or 30 years without a thought.
My wife, who has better ears than me, says its her favorite preamp so far and thinks the system sounds wonderful. Either that or she's finally tired of me swapping out gear ... |
Wilsynet,
Your wife has good ears, you can really appreciate what it does for the music as it has minimal editorializing compared to other line stages.
Regards, |
Mikha65,
Thanks for the kind comment.You made an excellent choice as you have realized. It's good to see that you and others have discovered this truly surperb product. Your description nails it.The CSL is so natural and capable of connecting and immersing one into their music.What more could you ask of an audio component? If I ever make it to Sweden I'll be expecting some great beer.
Regards, |
Can any of you owners comment on whether the CSL is an appropriate preamp for rock music? I listen to chamber and classical (have many old RCA Shaded and White dogs and Mercury Living Presence LP's), jazz, a little New Age but primarily rock. Or is it too soft and romantic sounding for rock? |
No, it's not to romantic or soft for rock. I'm positiv it will play any music
you feed it with big emotion. I use mine for rock. |
Mrmitch,
To clarify there's nothing soft or romantic with the CSL (do you assume that due to tubes?).If you read the impressions of the CSL owners on this site you'll realize that it's exceptionally uncolored, pure and honest.It will perform well with all genres of music.It doesn't emphasize certain aspects of sound or provide artlficial hype and slam characteristics. In my use I find it very dynamic, vibrant and with excellent timing and flow which will serve all music . It's a component that is devoted to music and the antithesis of a hifi presentation. I think you'd enjoy it quite a bit with rock music.
Regards, |
MrMitch, I don't listen to much rock, but I think the CSL will be fine with any music. I will say it is just fabulous with chamber music. I am listening to the new Shostakovich release by the Pacifica Quartet now, as it turns out. I have found that the CSL provides stunning placement of the instruments in space. One can hear the 1st and 2nd violins as clearly separated in space, which is not always a trivial accomplishment. I have also noticed this on the recent Dvorak release by the Vogler Quartet.
I have had my CSL for over a month now, and I could not be happier.
Wylsynet and Mikha, congrats! My guess is I must be getting close to 300 hrs of burn in now. Yes, it gets even better! |
Wilsynet,
One point I wanted to make about your very early impression. Remember that the CSL has a "lot" of high quality iron to break in.The numerous transformers (volume, interstage, output etc.) chokes simply need time.All parameters of sound including drive, dynamics, bass etc just get better. If you're happy now just wait until these important parts mature with more hours of use. There's much wire in those parts. The sound becomes more organic and effortless yet at the same time more alive with improved color-tone saturstion(natural).
Regards, |
Brownsfan and Charles1dad, thanks. Nice to know that there is more to come. I have 125 hours on it now. My audio buddy visits me a couple of times a week and he says it improves every time. Before CSLS moved to my place he visited 1/ month. Wonder why? |
It seems the Dude would be less intrusive than the two piece CSL
Is it the look that bothers you |
I`d say it is a matter of aesthetics.I had a loaned Dude in my system and it`s a very large single box(blue metal exterior) that will catch your attention.The CSL although two boxes and a lot heavier does tend to blend in more and isn`t as visually noticeable. The stainless steel finish of the CSL may be more elegant for some depending on tatse.It really boils down to cosmetic preference.
Regards, |
I recall the single box Dude as bigger in every dimension than the two box CSL. But it isn't so much the size as it is the proportionality. The Dude looks like a preamp made for Andre the Giant.
Maybe some people like that. If I had more space and a dedicated listening room, I think it would be ok. Anyway, it certainly sounds pretty terrific, as does the CSL. |
Thanks guys for you replies to my question. And no Charles1dad, I don't assume it would be soft due to tubes but was really wondering about a tube I'm not familiar with (the 101D). I have tubes in my present linestage and phono preamp ,except for my solid state amp, and they are just great with all types of music. My present preamp (linestage)is a Joule Electra LA 150 Mk2, but like most of us am always looking to better my system. |
I was very tempted to buy the Coincident when I was looking for a new line stage, but the killer was not being able to audition it in my system. (I appreciate that it is a bargain at the price and I probably could have re-sold it easily). Part of the price 'savings' has to come from selling direct- no distributor mark-up and no dealer mark-up on top of that.
Mr. Mitch-the 101d is a legendary tube. It is used by a few 'bespoke' builders today, but has a long legacy and the original tube, by Western Electric, is a holy grail type tube.
Also, only FWIW, I had a Joule LA 150 Mk ii in my system over one summer while my main line stage was awaiting repair- the bass was prodigious, and the high frequencies were very romantic; however, the midrange lacked delineation and spacial 'air.' It was quite apparent when my Lamm L2 was repaired and reinstalled. (The Lamm has since been replaced). The level of service by Joule- to a 'temporary' owner at that- was as good as it gets- they were incredibly responsive to my questions.
I'm glad you guys are loving the Coincident.
From a non-Coincident owner.... :) |
Mrmitch,
I understand. You had asked is it too soft or romantic for rock music? This is often expressed about tube rather than solid state components.
Regards, |
Thanks Whart for the info and your assessment of the Joule seems spot on, which is why I'm looking at the Coincident. |
It's been about 3 weeks now. I leave the preamp on almost continuously to help break it in. It doesn't run particularly hot, so no worries there.
There have been no burps or hiss or hiccups of any kind. It just runs quiet as a mouse. Don't think the mute switch works, seems to just filter out low frequencies. Maybe it's not mute so much as more muted than not muted at all.
Anyway, hardly worth complaining about as there are other ways to mute my system, including just hitting the pause button on the iPhone.
Okay, three weeks later, what's the verdict? Best darn preamp I've ever had. No complaints, this one's a keeper. |
Wilsynet,
The mute switch works fine for me.
I leave mine on 24/7 no problems (Israel said it only draws 45 watts).
It is a lifelong keeper component unless you change just for the sake of change or want to try something else.
Regards, |
Wilsynet, I had the same thing as you are describing with the mute switch. I traded some e-mails with Israel. This can happen if an XLR IC is not wired accordinging to standard, but in my case it was a bit of an incompatibility between Israel's approach to the mute switch and the grounding scheme used in my Cary amps. He offered to change the mute switch to work with my Carys, but I would rather just forget about using the mute switch. |
Interesting point Brownsfan, I use rca cables and this likely explains my lack of problems with the mute function. |
Update:
I have about 250 hours now and it's absolutely unbelievable.
I had some audio friends here and their conclusion is:
Scary real.
If you are in doubt about the CSLS, please read the rewiev
on www.audio-activity.com.
The rewiever compares it to the $50.000 Viola Spirito 2.
Very interesting, to say the least .
He actually admits to have fallen in love.
He is not the only one. |
Mikha65,
Thanks for posting this,I`ll read it later tonight.Given my long term joy with the CSL, I`m always happy when it gets some well deserved exposure. |
Mikha65,
The reviewer thoroughly captured the essence of the CSL.Reusing the term "natural" several times (as well as holistic and organic). Comparing so closely with the 45, 000 dollar Viola line stage (which the reviewer considers a creme de la creme standard) says it all as well as could be said. This doesn't surprise me and I don't say that with any smugness at all.He is right, the CSL is an astonishing achievement that's price within the range of reasonable affordability yet competes with the very best in the marketplace. Israel should be understandably very proud.For people like me who listen to predominantly unamplified acoustic music this is a near perfect choice.
Regards, |
Mikhai and Charlesdad, Very insightful review, which is of course, another way of saying I am in substantial agreement. A review with which I am in complete agreement is nothing short of brilliant. :)
Seriously, this captures pretty well the essence of this extraordinary piece. It really is the final destination, provided it offers the functionality one requires.
Charlesdad, I am still playing with power chords. Every single other component in my system loves VH audio AirSines but not the CSL. Weird. I may just have Israel make one of his for me just to see what it does. |
Hi Brownsfan,
No surprise with the power cords, so much of audio is trial and error. I took the easy way out and use the Coincident cord and as to be expected it is a very good match.
Regards, |
Charles1dad and Brownsfan, thanks. Yes, organic and natural are are the most important words in this rewiev to me. If you never heard it this way, you don't know what you are missing . Once you do,well......
Please let me know about your experiences with power snakes.
What did you try for the CSLS?
Brownsfan, any chord that you prefer to the Airsine?
I'm using a Furitech Evolution Power-2 and it works well. I will try Sablon Audio Gran Corona soon. It's a very musical chord with high resolution, full low end, awesome dynamics, beautyfull tone and it gets the soul of the music ( must be related to the CSLS ). I have one for my power conditioner, and it transformed my system. My friend has 2 Gran Coronas, so I will be able to try them. We compared Gran Corona to Transparent Ref in his and mine setups in various components and the outcome was clear. Gran Corona was clearly better. We did short time comparison and long time too.
For me it is better to listen to one chord for some weeks and then change to the next one and then back again. When Gran Corona went out of his system, the magic went out of the door. Same result compared to Cardas Gold Ref Power. The Transparent is a old model,
but was about 3 times the price of Gran Corona. |
Correction , the chord we compared to was a Transparent Powerlink Xl.
Anyway, the transparent was about 3 times the price of Gran Corona in
Sweden. Remember that we pay 30-50% more over here in Sweden when
we buy stuff from outside the EU. Sablon Audio is located in London,
so no taxes etc for EU customers. |
I have taken the plunge and bought the CSLS. Coincident have the same price world wide ( delivered to Australia) and that was very much appreciated. It has replaced my Supratek Cabernet Dual and I have to say I agree with all that has been said about it. Transparent, natural with the best imaging and soundstage I have come across.
Very happy and though I use it with tube power amps ( Mingda MC300845-AB) it really adds magic to solid state power amps as I found out at a friends place. So far so good! |
Pap,
Congratulations! You'll enjoy the terrific sounding CSL for many happy years.
Regards, |
Pap, good move. I'm about 6 months in on mine now. There is just nothing not to like with the CSL. |
Pap, congratulations!
Lucky you! |
Just thought i would let you know that i have installed a pair of new WE Replica 101D tubes onto the CSLS. They are made by PSvane and are available in China only at the moment. I bought a pair while at the Guangzhou hifi show . They are available with current 300B type pins as well as original WE pin configuration. Link below.
How do they sound? in a word WOW! Highs and lows are more extended, larger soundstage, more detail, better midrange, better dynamics and bass . Did I mention they look sensational too? Check this out:
http://www.psvane.com/?Series/WE101D/
|
Pap,
Welcome to the club! Israel Blume and Brownsfan made me aware of these Psvane 101D tubes. Brownsfan was right on the mark regarding the special quality of these tubes. They improve the already excellent Shuguang 101D and I didn't think the Coicident line stage could hardly get any better. What's a very pleasant surprise, CSL + Psvane = stunning music reproduction. They will be the standard tube in all current CSLs per Israel.
Charles, |
Thanks guys, good to know there's room for improvement.
Best,
Mikko |
Charles,
There are two types of PSvane 101D. The 1:1 WE replica has only just been released in China and is currently not available elsewhere as far as I know. The other type which some people also like has been around for a little while, but is nowhere near the same league as these new ones.
All 101D 's to date are based on WE designs but these new ones are 1:1 exact replicas all the way through, like others in the Psvane WE replica range - ( their very best tubes)
Brownsfan, can you confirm which PSVane 101D's you have been using?
I cannot emphasise enough the difference between these exact 1:1 WE replicas and the regular PSVane 101D tubes from their HIFI range. The audible differences are huge ( I own them all) . I paid around $600 for them but don't know what they will retail for when generally available. Given that genuine WE 101D's in reasonable condition will set you back $000's and are often of dubious quality, these are a bargain I think
|
Pap, I couldn't open the link you provided. I am sure I don't have the new WE replica. The standard PSVanes, at a little under $200 a pair are mighty good tubes and in many respects takes the CSL forward as Charles stated. If the WE replicas are all you say in comparison to the std PSVane 101D's Charles and I have, well, that is going to be something special indeed. $600 a pair is getting a little pricey, but---the CSL is the heart and soul of my system. Gee, seems like you might have picked up a few extra pairs for your old buddies in the US! :)
I would say the attributes you listed describe well what I have experienced going from the Shuguangs to the PSVanes. Sounds like the WE's just go further. By the way, how many hours did you have on your standard PS Vanes? I must have 300-400 hours on mine by now and they are still improving. |
Pap,
Yes you're correct, Brownsfan and I have the standard "hifi" series Psvane 101D not the W.E. version (I payed 175.00 ordered from china). These are excellent sounding tubes! The W.E. replica must be genuinely remarkable then as your description suggests. This is getting very interesting as Psvane is establishing a name for themselves with their highest tier series of tubes.
My friend Jwm has the wonderful Absolare Passion Signature PSET 845 amplifier. We just very recently compared some RCA 845s with W.E.replica 845 in his amplifier and the Psvane W.E. was the better sounding in both our opinions. Given the gorgeous sound I'm getting now , the W.E. 101D must be truly sublime. The stellar CSL deserves the best tubes one can manage. These 101D are the only active part in the CSL, so they have a very major role in the sound heard.
Charles, |
Pap,
The CSL with stock Shuguang tubes was one of the absolute best line stages I've ever heard (I've heard many good ones). The Psvane has improved that very high base line . I'm listening to Oliver Nelson, Doug Raney and Charlie Rouse CDs tonight and if they tapped me on my shoulder I wouldn't be surprised, that's how present they sound(and feel) in my room.
And to think the W.E.Psvane will improve things further yet, oh my!
Charles, |
The WE 1:1 replicas are smoother sounding than both the Shuguang and Psvane regular 101D's. Yet they resolve more detail, have better dynamics and bass which I think takes the CSLS to a new level. They also come in the best case I have seen tubes presented in - high gloss lacquer with chrome hinges and catch. They do need burn in but they come on strong all of a sudden after a couple of days of running. The link I provided was for the Chinese language site only because they do not appear on the English site yet. I wouldn't be surprised if mine are one of the first of not the first to be used outside of China. Please try these links. The first is a picture of them installed on my CSLS. The second is the PSvane China site but it isn't always accessible. You could try a different browser. http://i668.photobucket.com/albums/vv49/tp1_2009/amps0901_zps415855a4.jpghttp://www.psvane.com/?Series/WE101D/ |
