Pap, can't imagine how great the CSLS will be with these tubes.
But I will find out. |
Mikha65,
You make a good observation. The CSL with the stock Shuguang tubes was easily competitive (or better) with line stages at 3-5x its own price. With the use of the W.E.Psvane 101D you are in true rarefied air territory. This makes the combination a remarkable value for a High End audio component, that's some achievement.
Charles, |
I missed a couple of questions before- sorry about that. I was at the Guangzhou hifi show and they were selling them there. Btw, Full Music also were showcasing their new giant 211 and 845 tubes. Very impressive looks and sound. Also other 101d's from brands I hadn't heard of before.
At the show they only accepted cash. The psvane guys managed to communicate with limited English but were very knowledgeable and helpful. I have the contact details of psvane in GZ if you want but I'm not sure how reliable an English language email will be. I wonder if Grant Fidelity have any plans to import them.
Regarding the standard psvane 101d, they did improve with more hours under their belt and I lent them to a friend who had them for a few weeks. In total they would have clocked up around 500 hours .They had some good qualities but I think the bass was a bit light on and the treble could sound forward depending upon how the system was set up.
These 1:1 WE replicas however are better in every respect- more bass and dynamics than Shuguang and more mid range detail and extended highs than psvane Std. And sweeter sounding than both |
Hi Pap,
Thanks for making us fellow CSL owners aware of these latest 101D tubes. I guess eventually these W.E.replicas will be available for the rest of us to obtain. In the mean time I'm enjoying the heck out of the Psvane Hifi series 101Ds, they sound beautiful.
Charles, |
Charles
No worries mate. A couple of guys here in Western Australia also have CSLS and are trying to secure the new tubes through a contact in China. ( there is no going back once you have heard them in your system!).
Hopefully the usual sources will have them soon enough. |
Anyone find a source for the WE 1:1 101D replica yet? I can't find it anywhere, including psvane's site. Heck, they don't even list the WE 845 replica on that site, but Grant Fidelity carries it. Anyone understand why that is?
Thanks,
Jordan |
If anyone finds the cost of the Psvane W.E. too steep (600 USD or higher?). I can enthusiastically recommend the Hifi series 101D, this is a beautiful sounding tube. For less than 200 USD they're a genuine value for a superb line stage. I plan to buy the W.E. when they become available but believe me the Hifi tubes are no joke.
Charles, |
Charles, not only are the hi fi series 101Ds an outstanding value, I anticipate that the used tube market will see a steady trickle as CSL owners go with the WE's. I certainly intend to give the WE's a try when they are available in the US, but I'm not loosing sleep waiting. |
Brownsfan,
I find that I have to temper my enthusiasm and joy. The CSL with the Psvane 101D tubes are just the epitome of unadulterated music conveyed with emotion and uninterrupted communication. In my very humble opinion this is one of the truly exceptional values amongst the best group of line stages available at any cost. There, I went and said it, a music lover's sheer delight
Charles, |
Hey Charles - shortly after you tipped me off about the Psvane HiFi 101D's, I placed an order with Grant Fidelity. Unfortunately, it took 18 days to get them and when I opened the box, the internals of one were bent 30 degrees and touching the inside of the glass and the other had something loose inside. Frustrating! I have sent them back and hopefully it doesn't happen again. I look forward to trying them in my system, but I honestly have a hard time imagining it getting much better.
I did ask Rachel at Grant Fidelity if they planned to carry them. She gave me a short response along the lines of "only if the demand is there and it's not there now" (paraphrased of course). I'm not entirely sure she was aware of them, but that is just a hunch. Everyone...let's get that demand up for the WE 101D replicas!!! |
Charles, No need to temper that enthusiasm~ I'm hearing what you are hearing, and loving every minute of it. The CSL is one nice piece at any price. At under 6K, it is a steal.
German, sorry to hear you had problems getting your tubes. HEY Rachel, WE WANT THE WE101D TUBES!!!
Hope that does the trick. |
Hi Jordan and Brownsfan,
Perhaps we should send her emails expressing our interest. If that's unsuccessful I'll find a way to order from China.
Jordan I think you know that Brownsfan and I aren't hype machines and we both call it as we see it. The Psvane is a legitimate improvement of the "very goodt" Shuguang tube. For over 4 years I've just loved my CSL and wouldn't think of replacing it (with what?). But man oh man these Psvanes in the CSL are something else!
Charles, |
Jordan,
I don't mean to imply that there's a"night and day" improvement with the Psvane but the improvement is undeniable. In what manner? The sound quality is more organic, harmonically complete and fleshed out and tactile. There's more presence and emotion, the CSL had these attributes as a strength. Well now it's even more so. Pap says it gets better with W.E. , well then we're talking pinnacle level of rarefied realism.
Charles, |
pinnacle level of rarefied realism Charles - now that is a turn of phrase!! I'm really looking forward to hearing them. Jordan |
Jordan,
Well admittedly there's some speculation/extrapolation based on Pap's impression of the W.E. vs Hifi 101D comparison in his system.
Charles, |
Charles - I know you were speculating/extrapolating...I just enjoyed the phrase. The only way I can see improving on it is to add some alliteration. Perhaps "well, then we're talking the Ridge of Rarefied Realism"? If Pap's assessment is accurate, then they must be sublime! |
Jordan do you alternate between the CSL and CF line stages for a change of pace/ perspective?
Charles, |
Charles - no, I sold the CF. I have just not updated my profile on Audigon. |
Jordan,
At one time I gave very serious thought to purchasing a used Concert Fidelity as it had really impressed me. Instead I bought the CSL new and haven't looked back although I'm pretty sure that I'd like the CF very much as well.
Charles, |
Jordan/Germanboxers,
Need clarification...did you replace your Concert Fidelity CF-080LSX2 Preamp with the Coincident Audio Statement Linestage? If so, could you please let me know the difference in sound, and why you preferred one over the other?
Thanks in advance. |
Charles1dad, I doubt that the CF will do what the CSL does. It is not a direct heated triode preamp design. That is the beginning where the magic happens. The second part is removing the capacitors in the signal path. That is IMO where a capacitor cannot keep up with a transformer and IMO again tends to cause a smearing of the sound. These are generalizations but that is what my experience and hears tell me in direct comparison. |
Hi Bigkidz,
In terms of design you're preaching to the choir, I'm a hugh fan of DHT tubes and their unique characteristics and most of all their sound quality. IMO DHTs are the best choice for providing a natural , realistic and communicative reproduction of music.
If given a choice I'd select an interstage transformer over a capacitor in the signal path as you noted. Admittedly so much is dependant on designer talent, implementation and part quality (a great capacitor would beat a poor quality transformer).
The Concert Fidelity preamp sounds excellent to me regardless of its lack of DHT tubes or interstage transformer. Both the CSL and CF are minimalist , short signal path, singal gain stage designs with very low parts count.
As good as the CF sounds I don't find it "better" sounding then the CSL and it's 4x the cost of the CSL. The CSL conveys the emotion, passion, life and of music in a most believable and organic fashion.
Charles, |
All this is hear say, until you have both preamps in your system will you really know the truth. I also thought having an interstage transformer was the best. I however, was proved wrong when I compared my VAC SIG 2a preamp with interstage transformer to my Absolare preamp that uses a capacitor. No contest the Absolare is purer much more transparent and much quieter. Folks it is all in the design and after this exercise I am open to any design that is implemented well without biases. |
Jwm,
Just as I said above, it's really implementation and design talent, but I do believe that DHT are very special musically speaking. By the way Germanboxers (Jordan) did own both of these fine preamps. Like everything concerning audio, it boils down to personal preferences and desired sound. Jeff your Absolare Passion Signature does outperform the VAC Signature II in your system, I heard the same improvements as ou did.
Charles, |
I'm glad that Germanboxer had both that really is the only way your going to know for sure. My point was that I'm open to any well designed product no matter whats inside. |
Jeff,
Even solid state? (Smile). |
Jordan/Germanboxers,
Need clarification...did you replace your Concert Fidelity CF-080LSX2 Preamp with the Coincident Audio Statement Linestage? If so, could you please let me know the difference in sound, and why you preferred one over the other? 4orreal - yes, I had both in my system at the same time for several months. I owned the CSL and then purchased the CF with the eye toward a remote control linestage without taking a step backward in sound quality from the CSL. I intended to replace my remote volume controlled DAC with one that did not have remote volume. For the curious, with the remote volume DAC, the CSL positively impacted the sound quality compared to running the DAC directly into my Audion amps (that is long separate story in itself). The CF reveals a great many details, is transparent, very dynamic, and also appears fast (focus on transients). It does not leach tone, nor does it romanticize the midrange. I sold the CF when it became apparent that I was going to stay with my remote volume DAC, making the CF a costly luxury. I don't think the CSL gives up anything to the CF. The CF tended to better resolve the initial transient at minor expense to the note and decay. For this reason it was sometimes more *startling*. Still, for balance and naturalness across the spectrum, the CSL is hard to beat anywhere near its price. The CF did have a very fine pervasive grain that I began to associate (possibly incorrectly?) with the coupling capacitor the CF uses. In an ironic twist, I have now ended up with a DAC without volume control, the Luxman DA-06. I've worked around the issue by using the excellent volume control in JRiver running on my CAPSv3 server. Movies and concert videos, on the other hand, require me to raise my butt off the chair, walk across the room, bend over, and adjust the volume on the CSL. How do you CSL'ers and other non remote VC'ers deal with this burden??? ;-) My wife sure has made me soft!! I used to be a Spartan before I met her! ;-) |
Jwm - I have always been interested in the VAC IIa Sig linestage. I'm surprised the Absolare was so convincingly better. The Absolare is certainly at the pinnacle of linestages, but I assumed the VAC IIa Sig would be relatively close, if not just of a different taste?
Do you still maintain the WE845 tubes to be well worth the extra $$
Thanks,
Jordan |
Don't get me wrong the VAC is great its just not as transparent or quiet as the Absolare. I think the WE845 tubes are great. I like them much better than the original RCA 845 tubes. |
Jordan, I've never used a preamp in my main rig that had a remote. You don't miss what you never had. Plus, my vacations consist of daily 12-20 mile hikes, so I don't think much about the 15 ft from my chair to the CSL. For me the adjustment, which I made long ago, was going from infinitely variable pots to stepped attenuation. That took a while to get used to. |
Brownsfan - those are quite long for daily hikes, but hardly compares to standing up from a chair and bending over several times an evening? ;-)
I'm a cyclist and one of my "vacations" each year is to ride the length of the state of Indiana from north to south in 3 consecutive days for a charity event I set up 11 years ago. I'm the only one of the original 4 of us to still be doing the ride (and I was the "old man" of the group in 2003 when we started. The other 3 were in there mid 20's). I was just making fun of myself for being willing to spend so much money for the basic goal of: remote control without a drop in sonic performance.
Stay fit!!
Jordan |
Jordan,
North to south in 3 days is pretty impressive! Back when I was riding I topped out at 36 miles a day. I'm planning on retiring to Tennessee, so that I can hike in the Smokies day after day. That day can't come soon enough. May even get back on the bike, but its a different proposition once one moves out of the flatlands.
Next time I see 4 guys on bikes headed south on I-65 I'll honk and wave! |
Jordan,
Thanks for the update on these great linestages. I have heard them both in different systems several times at the RMAF; and just like Charles, I knew I could live with either. However, I have always wondered if the less costly CSL could give the CF a run for the money, and I'm glad to hear that it does. This would save me some money.
Cheers. |
Good for you, Brownsfan! The Smokies are beautiful and I envy your impending relocation there!
You won't see us on I-65...that's not legal and crazy dangerous. We ride back roads almost the entire way, including through Brown County and it's many steep hills. You should take it up again and don't worry about riding in the mountains...it's all in the gearing!! |
01-29-14: Jwm
Don't get me wrong the VAC is great its just not as transparent or quiet as the Absolare. I think the WE845 tubes are great. I like them much better than the original RCA 845 tubes. Just curious, what tubes are you rolling in your VAC? |
There's a new remote control version CSL available now in addition to the standard CSL-TVC. I do fine without a remote control and don't miss them. I stay in decent shape training for the 200 and 400 meter sprints for Master's track and senior Olympic track meets.
Charles, |
Charles...the 400m? I hated that length, vomit-inducing, really. I was forced to run it in HS. More power to you, sir!
I'm not really interested in the remote version primarily because I think the TVC is likely better sounding. No desire to go backward, even if just a little.
Jordan |
Jordan,
I've gotten used to this event but yes the lactic acid pain does kick in.
Israel says there's only a "slight" loss of SQ with the remote control version. |
Do have a source for the 1:1 WE 101D tubes if anyone is interested. Unfortunately the price is in the same ball park as discussed. |
Vetterone, Please publish the source or send me an email. I'm in. |
Vetterone - I'm interested too. Thanks! |
Hey Vette,
It was very nice meeting you at CES a few weeks ago. Count me in regarding these tubes as well.
Charles, |
Hi Knghifi,
I can tell you that my buddy Jeff has a large drawer full of tubes and has tried a variety of them in his VAC Signature MK II. The VAC is definitely a very fine preamp, the Absolare in his system is simply terrific and is less there ( if you know what I mean).
Charles, |
The WE 101D tubes are on their way. |
Vette,
Do you have a component that utilizes the 101D? I thought you were using the Absolare Passion line stage. I'm interested in your impression of these tubes.
Charles, |
I am using the Absolare Passion linestage. I have had gear that utilized the 101D and may again. I have a lot of respect for the tube and know its strengths well. Someone else will have to analyze them for now but I am betting they are top flight. I do know the WE 845's they manufacture are a clear winner. If no one on this thread wants them I know they will sell elsewhere. No worries. |
Vette - Is your source amenable to a small group buy from those of us on this thread? |
Vette,
1) I am somewhat surprised that the 101D isn't utilized more often, it's really a beautiful and natural sounding tube.
2) Agree regarding the W.E. Replica 845, it just sings in Jwm's (Jeff) Absolare amplifier and clearly outperformed the NOS RCA 845 and Shuguang.
3) I can attest to the Hifi series, so if the W.E. is just "modestly" better that's an achievement and Pap says the gap is wide between the two.
4) I'd be interested in a group purchase as Jordan suggested. |
Charles
I can assure you the WE Replicas are far more than "modestly " better than the Hifi series. They have more extended highs and lows with more detail retrieval and much better tonality and timbre. Bass is heaps better than the HIFI series as is speed and dynamics. The downside is that you will never use the old tubes again.
BTW quality of construction is so much better too. |
I have not heard the 101D in any implementation. It certainly is a visually beautiful tube. I will give the benefit of doubt that you guys did not buy CSL just because it looks so darn cool:)
A group buy is the way to to! I almost wish I could retro-fit in a pair:) |
