A group buy works for me or Vette can buy them and I will reimburse him. Either way. Let's just get the tubes.
Coincident Linestage vs CJ CT5 or Allnic L-3000
I currently own a Conrad Johnson CT5 but would like to upgrade and move to a preamp with XLR in/out. I have tested the Allnic L-3000 which I find very intersting, and I am also interested in the Coincident Statement linestage. Has anybody compared the Coincident to the CT5 or the Allnic?
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I can't wait for you guys to try them out. I have an Aussie friend In Guangzhou who will be getting 2 more pairs for CSLS owners in Perth, Western Australia ( the CSLS is catching on over here). Apparently the next batch of tubes will be completed by the end of February. It sounds like Israel might offer the WE replicas as an option on the CSLS. Cool. BTW, don't forget that these tubes definitely need running in. It was around the 70 hour mark that the magic started to appear and they improved further after that. |
Pap, Are you " Tasso" on the Australian site stereo. net? If so you have a very unique system combo, CSL with the hugh Soulution 710 amplifier. It's funny how I assume that those who have a CSL match it with a tube power amplifier ( as if there's no other choice, Lol). If your are Tasso did you try the Soultion's sibling preamplifier? If I have this all wrong I apologize for the mistaken identity. Charles, |
Good news...Rachel from Grant Fidelity said they will stock the WE 101D's after the Chinese New Year. Can we get 20 buyers?? Let's get this going!!! Grant Fidelity will stock WE101D after Chinese New Year once Psvane factory is back to work from holidays. Listing price for the Psvane WE101D will be $600 USD including shipping. For introductory, we will offer $540 with free shipping for first 90 days. If a group buy of 20 buyers can be formed, the group buy price can be $500 per pair. This price includes free shipping worldwide to each individual buyer's address. We only need to the group buy organizer to gather every buyer's email address for invoicing purpose. Thank you for everyone thinking of us when considering new tubes. |
Hi Charles, Yes that is me. The Soulution 710 was on loan from a friend and we did get to compare the CSLS to the Soulution 720 preamplifier a couple of weeks ago in his system in the presence of a group of hifi tragics like myself. Of the people who were present most preferred the CSLS. They thought it was more organic sounding with a bigger sound stage and the sound was more natural overall. This was with the new WE 1:1 Replica tubes however! The Soulution's owner preferred the Soulution citing better bass and dynamics. The $40k Soulution being an all out assault on high end pre-amps was always going to do something better. But the CSLS was certainly no slouch in those areas and I thought the dynamics and bass were very close. The CSLS actually mates very well with SS power amps due to its speed. Although it is quite neutral it does add a natural timbre ( and a touch of warmth) to the sound compared to many SS preamps which can sound a bit dry by comparison. |
If interested, I have three pair included in the last order. With the Chinese New Year, they will be delayed somewhat but they will be here soon. After shipping and import duties, price will be $550 a pair for the guys here. $650+ will be regular price. Sounds like there will be several options for everyone on where to buy these in the next few months. |
Anchors Aweigh, Charles:) If I were in the market, I myself would consider an additional back-up pair if it were a deciding factor to make the 20 pair group buy. Tho, I do realize the expenditure, we have seen full introductory manufacture's prices escalate shortly after introduction and these are a lesser used tube variety. Did not the Tak's 300B pricing rise? |
Hi Pap, That's the thing with high caliber SS preamps even the ultra expensive ones like the Soulution, they just cannot provide the same level of natural sound and organic liveliness. As far as I'm concerned the CSL has exceptional bass and speed as you said but always presented in the context of "natural", that is the key word. 3 dimensional space and image body-density is another strength of the higher quality tube preamps. Flesh and blood presence is more fully developed in my opinion. That the W.E. 101D replica will extend this inherent CSL attribute further is quite a feat. Charles, |
Jordan, I know your question was directed at Charles, but permit me to offer my observations during burn in. Straight out of the box, the PSVanes were actually somewhat similar to the Shuguangs. I did notice more air, which I suppose could present as brightness in some systems but did not in mine. At about 40 hours, the tubes began to sweeten up nicely and present with a nice improvement in midrange over the Shuguangs. At maybe 100 hours, I began to notice the system was offering much more mid-low bass authority, so that I was inclined to tweak my sub down a couple of notches. My first reaction to the tubes was rather ho-hum, ok nice tubes, slight improvement over the Shuguangs, but nothing special. Be patient. These tubes really do need some hours. |
Hi Jordan, Pretty much +1 Brownsfan's description. Out of the box I thought mild but noticeable improvement over the Shuguang but no brightness issues. 30-40 hours I knew these were clearly better tubes and it just continued to improve over the following days. To be honest Jordan I think they're still improving their sound quality. Listening to them right now and they just sing and make beautiful music. I imagine that in each system there are subtle burn- in pattern differences. Charles, |
Thanks Brownsfan and Charles! I'm questioning my read more than usual since I'm in the middle of a great many changes (and frustrations) in the system. I'm burning in the Druid V's in my main system. I also received KeithR's Valvets and they promptly exposed the hum and buzz in my system. They are dead silent if I run the DAC direct to the Valvets, but if it is run through the CSL, I get a buzz/hum that is annoying from the listening seat. It is there with the Audions also, but I deliberately have lowered the gain of Audions so this hum/buzz drops in level relative to the signal. When I systematically follow the Jensen troubleshooting guide, I end up with "inductively coupled noise" as the source. Very frustrating as I've tried different cabling and adjusted cable routing away from transformers and 120 lines, but no real impact. I use a PS Audio Premier as my line source...doesn't do a thing for "inductively coupled noise", however. So...many changes back and forth have discombobulated my aural senses. I'd like to be able to directly compare the Valvets with the Audions, but the noise issue makes it nearly impossible. Hopefully, I'll be able to resolve this noise issue soon?!!! |
Jordan, I feel your pain! Have you discussed this hum issue with Israel? When I first got my CSL, I had hum problems when I engaged the mute switch. As you know, muting prior to turning things off is recommended. It turns out that the CSL has a "very clever" grounding scheme, which can be very quiet but it turns out there are some grounding schemes in other equipment that can result in a hum with the CSL. In my case, Israel helped diagnose the offending equipment as my Cary mono blocks and offered to rewire the CSL to avoid this problem. The other option was simply to not use the mute switch, which is what I elected to do. I think it is worth talking to Israel. He can probably help you figure out what is wrong and perhaps provide some options about what to do about it. |
Hey Brownsfan...yes, I encountered the same issue with the mute switch, but only if I was running balanced (I think...been awhile since I talked to IB). I elected to do nothing and not use the mute at the time. I should talk to him and find out if he has any ideas. With the Audion's gain turned down so that I'm using much of the gain of CSL (i.e. vol knobs 1 - 3 clicks from max), the hum/buzz is completely inaudible from the listening seat. With the higher, non-adjustable gain of the Valvets, I have no option to reduce the noise/hum. When I ran all balanced systems, I rarely was aware of any noise/hum in my system. The frustrating thing is right now, even running all balanced from Luxman DAC to CSL to Valvets, I get this hum/buzz. If I run balanced or SE from Luxman to Valvets directly (bypassing the CSL), no noise at all, yet the Jensen trouble-shooting guide suggests it is due "inductively coupled noise". |
Jordan, I seconded the idea to call Israel, this is a strange problem as silence is a strength of the CSL. Pap says the CSL was dead quiet with his Soulution 710 amplifier ((just to mentioned another example of a SS ammp match). Maybe it's the Valvet that "could" be uniquely incompatible with the CSL. Did you have any problems when connected to the Frankenstein? I think this is a solvable issue. Charles, |
Jordan, You have superb equipment, and zero noise should be the expectation. If I were starting from scratch, knowing what I know now, I'd put together an all coincident system paired with my modwright sony (or an oppo) and be done. But I'm not starting from scratch, and I'm not kicking my Maggies to the curb, so the goal (and part of the fun) is making everything I have sing in harmony. Sadly, I really can't drive my Maggies with Franks. Please let us know what sort of help Israel can offer on this. His customer base for the CSL really should explode, but he has to effectively serve the mix and match market to make that happen. |
Charles - it is/was present with the Franks, Atma's, and Audions, though amplifier gain affected the ratio of signal to noise and hence how obtrustive it was. With the Audions I can eliminate it with low gain. I am not certain that the CSL is the cause or contributor. It does not increase or decrease with CSL volume pot position, only power amp gain. Following the Jensen trouble-shooting guide, I'm left with: the noise is coupling into to the cable by induction. This is most often caused by a In response to this discovery last year, I first tried a different cable (no difference), then I tried routing the cables completely away from any power cords or transformers...still no improvement. The only power line close to the cable is the PS cable for the CSL and that's DC. I eventually just lowered the gain on the Audions. |
Did this occur with the CF preamp in your system? Yes it did, Charles. So this leaves me with these facts which don't make much sense: 1.) DAC to amps direct via balanced or SE -> no noise. 2.) DAC to Linestage to amp via balanced or SE -> noise. Since I've tried a few different wiring schemes and isolation transformers between Linestage and amps, I'm not really sure what else to try? |
Th sonly time I have encountered any noise was with the CSLS partnered with Halcro power amps AND with the mute switch on. The owner of the Halcro contacted Israel who i understand was aware of this on happening on rare occasions and has made changes to newer models. It was no big deal for me because it was totally silent with the mute "off" mso it wouldn't be a problem using it. Apart from the Soulutiion 710, have also hooked up the CSLS to a pair of Gryphon Colosseum monoblocks, Jungson JA-100's , Bakoon amps, Doge 9's, mingda and McCormack power amps and one or two others with absolute silence at all times and being fed by DAC's CD players and phono stages. I think Brownsfan's advice is right on the money - its worth talking to Israel to help solve the problem although new owners shouldn't have this issue in future. |
Pap, Your finding of absolute silence with the CSL mated to quite a variety of amplifiers is consistent with my home experience. This makes me believe that Jordan has a likely unusual electrical quirk in his system that's affecting the use two different active preamps. I hope Israel can help with this frustrating problem. Charles, |
Some update about Psvane WE101D replica tubes: There are two versions of the Psvane WE101D replica tubes - one is called WE101D with shorter / thinner pins just like the original Western Electric 101D tubes do; the other is called WE101D-L (L stands for Long Pin), the pins are longer and 2 pins are thicker than the the other two. The Long pin is like pins for typical 300B tubes. Most new production tube amps use 300B type of tube socket for 101D tubes, so before you order WE101D Replica tubes, you will need to check your amp socket or current 101D tube you are using for the pin type. Psvane factory did a very small run WE101D for their annual audio show in Dec 2013. Some of those tubes were sold at Guangzhou audio show. There is no public sale of WE101D Replica tubes even in Chinese market yet. Real commercial production run of WE101D Replica will start this month and it will take at least one month to get the first commercial run of WE101D Replica tubes done, with any potential bugs ironed out. We expect new stock to be available at Grant Fidelity sometime in March 2014 in our Hong Kong warehouse. For those who know Grant Fidelity long enough, we never rush factory on any tube orders. You get what you pay for - this is very true with Chinese suppliers for all types of commodities. If you rush, factory will rush then quality will become questionable. Plus we always give factory a tighter quality criteria for our tube orders, so sometimes it has to take larger quantity of production to get enough tubes meet our requirement and meet our required quantity. That's why we do not have firm date of WE101D available, but hopefully within March 2014 for the best quality we can have. We will list the WE101D replica on our website in a few days then interested buyers can place their pre-order or join with other forum member for a possible 20-pair group buy. Rachel @ Grant Fidelity |
Hi Jordan and Pap and all, I agree with you about the HiFi series as well. Having a complete Coincident biamped system including PRE speakers, IMO, I also felt these tubes although quieter and less microphonic, were lacking in mid bass and lower bass. I thought that although there was more air present and that they sound a bit bright there was a slight loss in dynamics and speed at the expense of better focus and width as well. I am truly looking forward to hearing the W.E. replica 101d in the CSLS. |
David, I use a Voodoo Air Dragon on my CSLS. I tried a number of pretty good cords, but the Air dragon out performed them all. Best dynamics and timbral accuracy by a long shot. I have not tried the Coincident cord however. Next best to the Voodoo was an old PS Audio Statement. Great on dynamics, but it had some other issues. I think the CSLS likes a lot of copper. It wants current, and it wants it right now, seemingly. |
Rachel, Thanks for the update on the much anticipated Psvane W.E. 101D . The pin type for the CSL is long with 2 thick and 2 thinner pins like the 300b. Rachel have the factory take their time and do a good job, we want the best quality available. Dr David, Interesting how some of us are getting different results. The Psvane Hifi 101D are just better than the Shuguang to my ears. Charles, |
I bought my 101D WE Replica tubes at the Guangzhou HiFi show in December which was their first release. I think we can therefore claim the scoop on these! There was no risk of getting the wrong pins at the show however. The PSvane guys were very thorough in determining the application before they handed over the tubes. |
Brownsfan, As Charles has indicated the correct pins are the 300B style which must be specified while ordering. Although the first batch as described by Rachel may have been comparatively small, I was told by Psvane that they were made by their most experienced employees and passed several tests before making the world debut at the GZ show. ( this is one of the most important shows in China) |
More updates on the filament voltage and filament current of the Psvane WE101D/101D-L Replica tubes: - check with your amp manufacturer then please share the answer on forum. This is kind of technical so many users may find it useful. (the content below is also posted on our tube listing page so before anyone make an order, you can read it first too) The original Western Electric open plate 101D has spec rating as Filament Voltage 4.15V, Filament current 0.5A. This is DIFFERENT from closed plate Western Electric 101D tubes which is rated Filament Voltage 4.5V and Filament current 1A. Check with your amp manufacturer to make sure that you can use the lower filament voltage / lower filament current as specified in the WE101D/101D-L Replica tubes. Otherwise it may damage the tubes permanently. If your amp is designed to use 101D tube with filament voltage 4.5V and filament current 1A only, you can use the Psvane HiFi Series 101D without problem, but you cannot use the WE101D/101D-L Replica. Rachel@Grant Fidelity |
Update on Psvane Replica WE101D/101D-L filament voltage/current: Just had discussion with Psvane tube factory - they will produce the new commercial batch in Feb 2014 all to filament 4.5V/1A spec then there won't be compatibility issue with all 101D amps. Please note that the batch sold at Guangzhou audio show is of Filament voltage 4.15V/0.5A - this may not work for some amps at least not with Supratek as I got email confirmation from Mick - Supratek Cabernet has spec 4.5V/1A for 101D tubes. Rachel@Grant Fidelity |
Rachel, The specs you have quoted are different to the ones on the Chinese language site for the WE101D/101D-L Replicas. These are the parameters that I have taken from that site . Filament voltage 4.5 V Filament current 1.0 A Anode voltage of 190 V gate voltage - 18 V Anode current 6.4 mA BTW, the WE-101D-L is the one with the 300B type pins that should be specified for the CSLS. At the GZ show, the PSvane guys asked what preamp it would be used in and I told them. There was a discussion in Chinese amongst themselves before concluding they should be OK. Can you please reconcile the different specs you were given to the ones on the site? This is the link to the specs- it seems to work intermittently but I can post jpeg images of it I have saved in both Chinese and English if you have problems accessing it. http://www.psvane.com/?Series/WE101D/ |
Rachel, I now see you were only referring to the tubes sold at the HIFI Show in GZ. The information you were supplied is puzzling. The data sheets that came with mine match the website and the known specs for 101D. The lower specs that you posted are in fact specs for the 101F, not 101D. Are you seriously suggesting that PSVane in its world launch of the WE 101D replica passed off sub standard tubes as 101D? |
