Classical Music for Aficionados
JimThanks for recommendation of Igor Levit.Have you heard "Life"?Reviewed today here
The Sprawling Piano Odyssey of Igor Levit’s “Life” By Alex Ross https://www.newyorker.com/recommends/listen/the-sprawling-piano-odyssey-of-igor-levits-lifeI am downloading it now along with several more of his recordings. |
Al, Thank you much for your good wishes. I can’t tell you how much these speakers have exceeded my expectations. Listening to them is like being at an orchestral concert. The full spectrum of sound is there. The Solti recording is a digital from 1986 with Norman, Runkel, Shunk and Sotin. Surprising how well the speakers reproduce it. I’ll look out for the ‘72 recording to compare. Best, Richard |
Congratulations on the new speakers, RV. I was happy to see in one of your other threads that they’ve worked out great! Is the Solti/Chicago 9th you referred to the 1972 recording with Burrows, Lorengar, Minton, & Talvela, that was co-engineered for Decca by the great Kenneth Wilkinson? If so, I have the two-LP Mobile Fidelity reissue of that recording, ca. early 1980s. And although somehow I haven’t listened to it in quite a few years I indeed clearly recall it as being wonderful in terms of both performance and sonics. In fact I recall that during the 1980s there were even some occasions when I used it in showrooms to audition speakers. Congratulations once again. Best regards, -- Al |
As a sort of celebration for my obtaining new speakers (GoldenEar Triton 1’s) and to see what they can do, I played Beethoven’s 9th recorded by Sir Georg Solti with the Chicago Symphony. It was a magnificent experience. I didnt realize the performance and sound was so wonderful until I heard them on the new speakers. Both recording and speakers highly recommended! |
I have just purchased a 24/96 file of the pianist Igor Levit called Alive.The quality of the recording is stunning and I have to say it is the best piano recording I have heard. It is probably not for everyone but it is definitely worth it if you want to stun your friends. It comprises reworkings of music originaly from Bach and other composers and best of all is the chaconne from Bach's Violin Partita in D Minor not in the familiar guise by Busoni but the version for left hand by Johannes Brahms. The pianist turns this piece into something magical by way of a superhuman technique and a wonderously sumptuous tone . Definitely one to try. I have been following Levit's career since he was a new generation artist with the BBC.Other discs by him are Bach Goldbergs and Partitas and Beethovens Diabelli Variations, definite treasures and I remember a memorable night at The Wigmore Hall where he played the last three sonatas byBeethoven in two concerts on the one night such was the clamour for the tickets. Brought back wonderful concerts by Claudio Arrau in the same repertoir and I can't say better than that. Also I have been listening of late to a beautifully warm toned Harpsicord recital,
François Couperin : L'art de toucher le clavecin by,
Olivier Fortin
and this is one that I cam heartily recomend. The good thing about this recording is that the microphones are not right inside the instrument and allows a little bit of room for the right amount of ambience. Give them a try if you are seriously into Piano or Harpsicord. |
A couple of new acquisitions that I find exciting are: 1.Francois-Xavier Roth’s recording of Ravel’s complete Daphnis et Chloe. I’ve bought oodles of versions of this work, vainly searching for the ideal rendering. For me, This is the one! Sonically and musically it’s exquisite. 2. Volumes 4-6 of Heinz Holliger’s complete cycle of Schumann’s orchestral works, including a version of the aforementioned Konzertstuck for Four Horns and Orchestra (Volume 5.) |
So many nominations. But how about this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttd9IhuZYqo And if you have 5-0 minutes, do try the Currentzis. (Hint, he makes Bernstein sound cool, calm and collected.) |
I've been away, but seeing this I thought some might find it interesting. What can you do in 5 minutes? https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/06/arts/music/5-minutes-that-will-make-you-love-classical-music.html |
Just listened last night to Teodor Currentzis/MusicAeterna's performance of Tchaikovsky's 6th (Pathetique). On Sony Classics. WOW. DOUBLE WOW. An extraordinary rendition. Crank up the volume, turn out the lights, sit back, and prepare to be... well, overwhelmed. [If anyone listens to this, can you report back on what you hear re. soundstaging and the orchestral seating. I hear divided violins, left and right, but also double basses hard left, which was a little disconcerting.] |
Danny Norbury - Light In August Last track... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYS5vgSR2yw&frags=pl%2Cwn |
I started typing a post, went back to refer to an earlier one, and then my text disappeared! So retyping, and apologize if this gets posted twice somehow. Just catching up on the thread. rvpiano, the Brahms horn excerpt you mentioned (from the 4th symphony) is in this case actually a duet, not a solo, unlike the Ravel one Al mentioned. But it is a very nice choice for favorite horn excerpt, nevertheless. All of us horn players wish that Brahms could have gotten over his musical conservatism enough to actually write the horn concerto he wanted to. But at least we have the Trio! fynnegan, another great recording of the Peter Grimes is the one with Jon Vickers in the title role, with Colin Davis conducting. That one and the one you mentioned are the two representatives in my collection. brayeagle, I celebrated yesterday by re-watching the film On The Waterfront, which is one of my very favorite Bernstein scores. |
rvpiano, your comments do indeed agree with that of many scholars. Many musicians, however, hear quite a few echoes of Handel in the orchestral music of Brahms in particular. I am not denying that Bach is a heavy influence at all, of course, just that Handel's influence is more than many academics give it credit for. |
I would not presume to judge such a contest - those are all very good choices, and different people will have different favorites. I will mention one of my favorites, though, that I doubt would be mentioned by anyone but a horn player. It is near the end of the second of Strauss's Four Last Songs. Find the Schwarzkopf recording with the Philharmonia, Ackermann conducting, but most importantly in this case, Dennis Brain playing first horn. The most exquisite short little solo I have ever heard on recordings, and a favorite of a great many horn players. The original Angel blue label (at least I think it is without getting up out of my chair to make sure) LP sounds very good, at least the two copies I own both do. It is of course also available on CD, if one must, but that is NOT the same. Almarg, that is most definitely a solo in the Ravel - the second horn does enter a couple of times, at first on the same pitch as the first horn, but then descending down a fifth from there, just the two notes. Most of the time it is the first horn alone, though. For me, Myron Bloom's performance of it on the Szell/Cleveland recording was perhaps the most beautiful of his recorded orchestral solos. Cleeds, Adam is a great player. He mostly teaches now - full time major professor at the University of Michigan - but he was a member of the Philadelphia Orchestra horn section for ten or twelve years, I think, perhaps a little longer - he was the second horn player. |
I had no idea we had such horn aficionados here. Regardless of what might be the best horn solo of all time, this guy’s CD brings the instrument to a whole different level. He’s brilliant. |
I wouldn’t presume to designate it as the most beautiful orchestral horn solo, but at or near the top of my personal list would be the one at the beginning of the Finale of Stravinsky’s "Firebird Suite." Also, there are certainly some beautiful moments for horn in the last movement of Brahms’ Symphony No. 1. The fact that those works as a whole are among my favorite classical compositions, especially in the case of Brahms’ First, certainly contributes to my feelings about their horn passages. Best regards, -- Al P.S: Learsfool, great to see that you’ve joined the thread! |
Let's move on. I suggest a competition. Who can identify the most beautiful horn solo in the orchestral repertoire? We can all suggest our favorites and learsfool will judge the winner. Am suggesting this because I just got a new recording of the Tchaikovsky symphonies and was reminded of the horn solo in the 5th symphony, beginning of the 2nd movement. My bid for the most beautiful -- not the longest or hardest, but most beautiful. Doesn't hurt that the rest of this movement is spectacular with one of the great string crescendos of all time and the unexpected sfz brass attack toward the end that thrills. So you pundits can outdo me with ease. What's your favorite for the most beautiful horn solo? Got to be a solo, Got to be an orchestral passage. |
I know that the subject of Wagner can be a very volatile one. If one associates Wagner with Nazism it is inevitable to have a reaction. I, personally, feel that we have to dissociate the music from the man. I know music does not exist in isolation. It is intensely human. But, even though I’m a non-believer, I still think music comes from a higher place. It exists on a different plane. It’s as though it’s channeled through people and to people on a different level. People are ephemeral, music is forever. |
Learsfool, In my research I found the overwhelming evidence and opinion is that Bach, NOT Handel was the main Baroque influence. It was said that when a new edition of the Bach Gesselschaft (just being compiled at the time) came to him, he would eagerly pour over it. But when a new Handel tome came he said he would “get to it later.” In concerts, Brahms as choral conductor profusely included Bach in programs. Handel was scarcely to be found. The so called “fire and fury,” (mentioned by Baroque writers) of the Vivaldi-Bach concerto style is to be found often in Brahms style. Not so, the more sedate Corelli-Handel concerto grosso style. As mentioned, Brahms would improvise on the piano and organ for hours in the manner of Bach organ writing. Indeed his final opus contained chorale preludes in homage to Bach. I can see where a cursory opinion might be formed regarding Handel. After all, he did write “Variations and Fugue on a Theme by Handel.” But the consensus among scholars is that Bach is the man. |
Learsfool, +1. "I'm not an anti-semite, some of my best friends are Jews." A more common apologist's self serving statement perhaps, but it must be hard to love Germany and its occupants and not say something. I recently watched a program involving Daniels Barenboim's efforts in trying to find accord between Palestinians and Israels through the use of music involving artists with stereotypical political beliefs. A dissonant Jew, I think not. And FWIW Wagner is now performed in Israel. Go figure! But, FWIW, the use of critical analysis is not a prerequisite to forming or expressing a personal opinion, whether we like it or not. |
Yes, good comments, rvpiano. Both were heavily influenced by the baroque. Brahms was actually even more influenced by Handel than by Bach. The influence of Bach on Wagner is well documented, too. schubert, are you actually trying to say that you feel Wagner is responsible for the Holocaust? Even granting that some of his writings (not his musical compositions) influenced Hitler and the Nazis, which as you say many historians do recognize, I think it is a huge stretch to call Wagner responsible for their actions over 50 years after his death. Don't you think they would have believed and done the same regardless of whether Wagner had ever existed? I have certainly never seen any historian suggest otherwise, and I have read and researched Wagner extensively, writing many papers on his music while in school. Appreciating the art of Wagner's music is no crime, listening to it is no crime, and performing it is no crime; and being someone who lost many relatives in the Holocaust, I frankly find your suggestion that I am somehow morally deficient VERY offensive. Parenthetically, I am also surprised the moderators of this forum allowed the post to stand, as they seem to quickly take down posts with much less heinous personal attacks. Of course, Wagner's anti-Semetic writings are to be condemned, and no artist would argue otherwise. But how is the MUSIC itself made any less great, because we disagree with/condemn much of the composer's thought or actions on an unrelated subject, or because someone else tried to appropriate the music for a despicable purpose? While I fully understand why a survivor of the camps, for instance, might never want to hear the music of Wagner ever again, the music was NOT written for that purpose, and it is a shame to me that some essentially allow the Nazis to appropriate it, as no matter how much we condemn the man who wrote it, it remains some of the greatest music ever composed, and it is not the fault of that music that the Nazis tried to appropriate it. I argue that we should not let them, and that this is a moral choice as well as an artistic one. Condemn the man, not the art. If we do start condemning art, where exactly does that end? Where does one draw that line? Do you not listen to Gesualdo, for instance? He murdered his wife and her lover. Tchaikovsky was a known pedophile. Do you not listen to him? Bruckner was probably a necrophiliac. Does this make his symphonies less great? You yourself brought up the misogyny and sexism of Brahms. Are we to throw out the music of all these great artists? |
At least it wasn’t Shaw who wrote “Exit in case of Brahms.” That was Philip Hale of the Boston Globe. Brahms, about whom I wrote a dissertation, was music’s great historian among composers. Like Mozart, whose style was enhanced after his study of Bach, Brahms’ stlyle was deeply informed by his contact with the Baroque master. My thesis was that Brahms music, at its core, was more neo-Baroque than neo-Classical. In his early twenties he actually took several years off from composition to explore music from previous centuries, including, among others, the compositions of Heinrich Schultz. He emerged from his hiatus with a style enriched with contrapuntal sophistication. While he examined music from the Renaissance and early and late Baroque, his greatest love was Bach. He would sit for hours and improvise on the piano and organ in the style of Bach. Of course, Beethoven was his spiritual mentor as well. But in no other major Romantic composer (Reger excepted, if you consider him major) will you find the essence of Baroque style intrinsically infused in his writing. Aside from the Requiem, the four concertos find obvious references to Baroque contrapuntal and concertato style. We can hear conspicuous differences, for example from the early piano sonatas to the later piano concertos. Whereas Mendelssohn and Schumann, to name two, referenced the Baroque symbolically, Brahms actually got into the nuts and bolts of its construction. Ironically, even though he was the leader of the opposite camp, Wagner also demonstrates a strong affinity to the Baroque. He just didn’t write symphonies, concertos, sonatas, string quartets etc. But one can find copious evidence of Baroque awareness in his operas. |
Hi gdnrbob - schubert is correct. Brahms literally grew up playing piano in some pretty nasty brothels. Women were either madonnas or whores for him forever after. One wonders if his experiences in them also contributed to his lack of confidence in his artistic craft that he struggled with off and on through his whole career. He literally tore up half of what he wrote. schubert and I have argued about Wagner on this board before. I won't rehash all of it, but I will say here for readers of this thread that almost all artists would agree that one must separate the art from the man. As far as Wagner the artist goes, he was one of the greatest iconoclasts in the history of all of the arts, truly an artistic genius. He had a bigger effect on music debatably than any other artist has ever had on his/her art. Music was never the same after him - though it did not go the direction he expected it to, it splintered off into so many different directions. Pretty much for the next 100 years, everything written was influenced by him in some way, whether pro or anti, in a musical sense. Wagner the man was truly despicable, but almost all artists would agree that one must not throw out the art for that. This question has come up again in a different fashion in the musical world over the last year, with some listeners wanting to get rid of their Levine and Dutoit recordings because of the sexual harassment/abuse scandals. The Wagner/Brahms controversy was about taking music in new directions vs. musical conservatism. The two composers themselves rarely entered the fray (in fact they were mostly complimentary of each other's musical abilities publicly), which was fostered mostly by the famous Viennese critic Eduard Hanslick, who was most firmly on the side of Brahms and conservatism. George Bernard Shaw, who besides being an incredible playwright and essayist also happened to be one of the greatest music critics, was the most famous critic who took the part of Wagnerism (musically only, of course). As a side note, anyone who wants an education in music criticism or the state of music in the late 19th and early 20th centuries could do no better than to read Shaw's collected music criticism. Truly wonderful writing, very entertaining, and far ahead of his time on many issues. Late in life he retracted many of the negative things he wrote about Brahms when young, too. |
@schubert , Great points raised. Though I think just about every composers life is interesting. They are artists after all. (and, as a gardener, I am hypnotized by the diaries of plant explorers in the 17th, 18th centuries-Even Captain Bligh had breadfruit named for him-Blighia). Besides anti Semitism, Wagner was just an out and out deadbeat. I never found a place for him in my listening. No wonder Clara Schumann , misogamy etc. What were you trying to convey? I am a bit confused? Bob |
To me Brahms, as a person , is the most interesting of all the great composers , I have read most of what has been written about him in English and some in German.He felt music was going the wrong way and when I read his reasons why , I agreed . I believe we all look at things from our situation in life, a musician like yourself sees one thing , an historian like myself sees something else.Small poor example, first time I read of teen-age Brahms playing in cafes on Album notes I knew at once that their were no cafes in Hamburg dock side area, at that time the biggest harbor in the world .What there was were a plethora of low-down brothels as nasty as there were on the planet .No wonder Clara Schumann , misogamy etc.I’m anti-Wagner because the most famous man In Germany wrote more hyper anti-Semitic pieces that he did music. Historians I studied under were the best in Germany, they drew a straight-line from him to Hitler .He is the only composer I abhor . I imagine than when a skilled musician sees some thing in Music they judge ,the music as music alone .A historian might be prone to look at its effect in general as that is his skill . Of course , the musician knows more in his realm , what you correctly see as a fabulous twist in , say Mahler, I might hear as a dog chasing his tail P.S . I don't know the bloggers name as I never heard of him . |
Hi schubert - yes, there is an abundance of great choral music in the Twin Cities. And you also have the Mask of the Flower Prince blogger - one of the best in support of symphonic musicians everywhere (I do know his real name). Not sure what you mean by your "I'm with Brahms" postscript?? Meaning you are anti-Wagner? I know we have had that conversation in the past. |
And your last paragraph is wisdom itself , learsfool . I operated like that for many decades , have heard Schubert Octet many times , no doubt my own fault for not hearing Op43 . I live in Twin Cities , did live in Berlin for over 20 .The two metros have almost exactly the same population and area . Believe it or not, there is, excluding opera, more quality classical music here than in Berlin. Perhaps more choir music here than anywhere in the world . And there are several halls with acoustics better than anywhere in Berlin .But , in my dotage I’m lucky to make 3 concerts a month , down from 3 a week for decades . I don’t say all this as a homer either , St.Paul is a place I live , Berlin is a place I love, and, were it possible, where I would live . P.S. I’m with Brahms . |
Craig, what you have heard about Brahms is true, as far as being the last of the major composers to use natural horns in his works. What Brahms did in his symphonies, for instance, was (generally) to use one pair of natural horns (Horns I and II), and one pair of valved horns (III and IV). So he did take advantage of the newer instruments; however he and many others at the time felt that the valved horns were inferior to the natural horns in tone quality. This could perhaps have been true, at first, but it was not a universal opinion at the time. Brahms had very conservative musical tastes. He was a horn player himself, you know. He even wrote an etude book for the instrument! It's quite good, though not much in use today. I would guess most horn players don't even know it exists, let alone have a copy. Wagner's first use of the new instruments was fascinating, in Lohengrin. At first, he did not quite understand the concept, and assumed that the purpose was to essentially have several natural horns on the same instrument - in other words, that it would still be played as a hand horn, just with the ability to change the key of it at will. The result of this misunderstanding was that he changed the key of the instrument sometimes after only a bar and a half! So one has to be alert when playing, for instance, the oft-played Prelude to the Third Act, as the transposition changes come thick and fast - it gives students a great deal of trouble at first. As far as recordings go, I know that John Eliot Gardiner has a good recording of the Brahms Requiem. I do not know if there are any period instrument recordings of the symphonies - I don't think Gardiner has recorded those. Being still very active, I don't really have time to keep up with everything going on in the recording world anymore. I am very familiar with what was recorded up to say the mid-90s, but not nearly so much since then, when I won my position in a full-time symphony. Many others on this board would be much more familiar than I with who has recorded what in the last twenty years or so. I'm pretty sure there were no period instrument recordings of the Brahms symphonies before the mid-90s, but someone may have done it since. schubert - I do not remember where you live, if you have ever said. Assuming you are in or close to a major metropolitan area, you would be much more likely to catch a performance of a woodwind quintet at your local universities/conservatories. Also, see if there are any chamber music series in your area that have winds on them. Often, symphonic musicians in major orchestras will have a series set up to give them an outlet for chamber music, which they control, unrelated to their orchestra. Perhaps the performances are located in a local church. It is in this way that I have played most of the major wind quintet works professionally, as well as the Beethoven Septet and the Schubert Octet, and many other major chamber works. You might see if you can find such a series in your area. |
learsfool, I assume they were from the Gewandhaus , Baumann did a solo piece but can’t remember what it was . Was a long time ago and my brain is 85 . I can just say that the two wind players than made the greatest impression on me live are Baumann and Heinz Holliger, who was so good it was hard to believe he was human . Of course every wind quintet has Op43 as a staple , but they are few enough that I have never heard it live. My favorite band is the Gewandhaus , has been since Masur. God willing. I’m making my last trip to my beloved Germany in Oct. to hear them play the the Mahler 1 and some Tchaikovsky.. Andris Nelsons has them playing very well as did Chailly before him . 53 Euros for center right ticket to Heaven ! Lufthansa is a bit more . |
learsfool: Yes, you are correct -- the Schumann notes say "horns with three rotary valves crooked in F." BTW, we learned as musicologists that Brahms was the last major composer to specify natural horns -- and did so when most others were moving to valve instruments. Is this true? Are you familiar with any period recordings of the Brahm's symphonies that use natural instruments? Keep buying Brahm's symphonies trying to find performances with in-tune string playing. His dramatic first violin leaps upwards never seem quite accurate and/or comfortable. The best I have found so far is the Zweden recording with the Netherlands Philharmonic. But Zweden is very cautious with tempi and the gestures never are molded the way Solti and others do so effectively. Let me know if you have any candidates. |
Hello all - the Schumann Konzertstuck is indeed a great piece. I do have that Gardiner recording, though it would be not quite correct to call all of the instruments natural horns - at least a couple of them do have valves on that recording. They are period instruments, but valves had been invented by then and were already in wide use. I would have to dig the liner notes out to figure out exactly what sort of instruments those are that are used on that recording. Schubert, do you remember who the other three soloists were when you heard Baumann play it? Were they people from the Gewandhaus section? By the way, I would not say the Nielsen is grossly underplayed - it is a staple in any good woodwind quintet's repertoire. However, there are probably less than a handful of professional woodwind quintets, at least that tour at all. I have played the piece a few times. For another great woodwind quintet piece, try the Samuel Barber Summer Music, if you do not know it. A couple of other great chamber works involving the horn would be the Beethoven Septet, and the Schubert Octet. Newbee, the Gliere is a great concerto. Baumann has an excellent recording, and another interesting one is the Valery Polek one, with the composer conducting! Polek premiered the work. Another really great horn concerto is by one of Schubert's favorites, Hindemith. It was written for Brain, who made an excellent recording of it. Another great piece would be the Britten Serenade for Tenor, Horn, and Strings. |
I currently have to CDs that I consider to be unbeatable for both music and recording quality. (1) Ceremonial Music For Trumpet & Symphonic Organ - Michael Murray (2) Neeme Järvi Conducts Saint-Saëns - Neeme Järvi I think I can honestly say that I don't have any other CDs that match the recording quality of these two. If you enjoy the music they cannot be topped. |
Totally agree with you that Bernstein’s histrionics never got in the way of his communication. Indeed many feel that they were a MEANS to communication. Critics thought they were phony — salesmanship. But I believe they were an integral part of his ethos. Much the same can be said of one of my idols: Glenn Gould. A master intellectual musician as well as virtuoso technician, he was totally lost in his music. I used to feel Lang Lang was performing to the gallery with his mannerisms. After seeing him live, I believe he is real as well. Bernstein was one of the most influential musicians of his age. Most of my friends worship him as an interpreter. He created a whole generation of music lovers at a time when classical music was not on the fringes as it is today. He is sincerely missed. |
Schubert and rvpiano: Concerning Bernstein Was a music student, then professor in the 60s-80s. At that time, Bernstein was #1 on the orchestral heap and each of his recordings was an event by itself. Listened to all of them when they first came out. At that time, it was fashionable to disparage anyone that popular and even though several of the recordings made an indelible impression, fell into that "anti-Bernstein" camp -- preferring, instead, the "more accurate" efforts of Boulez and the like. Then, last year, purchased the Sony remastering of all the non-symphonic recordings. Was absolutely FLOORED at how good they are. His gift was to tell the story of the score -- to make very clear the musical message in simple and direct ways. He believed he was making the music appealing to the masses -- and I think he did so to a great degree. What is further appealing about these recordings is how good his orchestra was (an army of generals) AND how much they clearly enjoyed playing these works. This enthusiasm comes through with boundless energy and excitement. Often I get new recordings that are essentially perfect as regards notes and interpretation but the orchestra sounds cautious and does not seem to be connecting directly with the listener. Bernstein was all about connection. SO I agree with Schubert concerning histrionics but think that is secondary to the Bernstein legacy. Check out the remastered recordings, especially the early ones. Would like to hear from you two what you think of his orchestra. BTW, he is particularly successful with American composers, notably Ives, Copland, Gershwin, and Grofe. To my ears, a number of his recordings are the best ever made. |
