Class D is just Dandy!
BTW, I have no particular opinion on ML amps, but the generalized claims Fremer made in the article were just not true anymore for Class D amps. Whether any reader here likes a particular amp or not, well, OK, I can't argue with that. But the general issues with Class D amps of the 1980's were long solved by 2013, despite some people being unwilling to let go of the same old myths. Best, E |
I haven’t listened to Icepower so can’t comment. The Levinson comment is a red herring. There are other companies, like Bel Canto, who were well known for their tube amps, but have ditched them in favor of class d in general, Hypex in particular. From a performance standpoint, there are few amps in the world which can match the ncore for closeness to an ideal amplifier, i.e., a "wire with gain". The last thing that would influence my purchase of any piece of audio gear is someone else's opinion of the sound. Reviewer or otherwise. Like someone telling me which wine or beer I should buy.... |
erik_squires OP2,223 posts06-24-2017 12:24pmFremer's 2013 review was riddled with bias. He's no neutral observer. Well John Atkinson also backed his "bias" after doing the measurements. " The sound was initially very impressive. It had tremendous dynamic sweep, with superb control of the Wilsons' woofers, tremendous clarity, and nothing identifiably wrong. However, the more I listened, the more the overall sonic picture seemed flat and uninvolving. An enigma.—John Atkinson" Read more at https://www.stereophile.com/content/mark-levinson-no53-reference-monoblock-power-amplifier-measureme... Cheers George |
Hi @chrisr Class D is not Digital, but for the next type in sequence, after A, B, C. They are switching amps, but everything is controlled in the analog domain. Designers like Bruno Putzeys bristle at the term "digital" amplifiers. There is no A/D or D/A process. At least, not how DAC's think of them. Some class D are also digital, but rather rare. I'm thinking of the latest Technics amps. So, no, most Class D amps take in analog signals only. Best, E |
Interesting read on two expensive high end mono-blocks from Mark Levinson. The $50K No.53 Class-D mono-blocks where they spent considerable time and effort to address and rid the problems of class-D, but never got the great review (listening or measurement) they hoped for. https://www.stereophile.com/content/mark-levinson-no53-reference-monoblock-power-amplifier Then back to their linear $30K No.536 mono-blocks Class A/B, which by comparison got a great review (listening and measurements). https://www.stereophile.com/content/mark-levinson-no536-monoblock-power-amplifier Goes to show, even a pedigree company, with credentials up the wazoo, can't get Class-D to better their own cheaper linear amps. Cheers George |
I've had tripath, spectron, and now hypex. In the past I have owned both tube and class a solid state amps. Once I found hypex, I have never looked elsewhere. It all comes down to personal preference. Some like the tube sound, others don't. There is no right or wrong. I always get a kick out of the audio nazis who put other's choices down with their snobby attitude and need to justify their own preferences - as if their version of reality is the only valid interpretation. |
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Just to keep the thread active: Please refer to my post of 5/20. I am a little disappointed in you folks, or maybe you were just trying to spare me the embarrassment of so obvious an oversight. First, The TP30 II is not class D; it's class T. More importantly there certainly is a way to turn the speakers off on the I32. It's called a MUTE button. Sometimes I can be so obtuse! Any way, I am glad I got everything well sorted out and can now easily select speakers, standard headphones and electrostatics as the mood strikes me. |
So, a lovely resolution and a mystery have presented themselves.. My amp, after barely functioning the morning after my screw up, works perfectly now. I put it back in, just to triple check that it is the amp, not the pre, and it's back to normal. I did disconnect the input connector and reseat it, as well as remove the fuse, check it and reinstall it. At any rate, yay! As for the mystery, I bought these from an Audiogon seller who said they were Ghent audio monos. When I opened the case, though, these amps each have one ICEpower 500 asp module, not the 2 ICEpower 200 ASP modules per amp that Ghent uses. So these are not Ghent monoblocks.. I guess someone built these themselves using Ghent cases. Interesting.. |
Hi Todd! If memory Serves, Ghent uses these a lot, if true, lot less expensive than the big modules: http://www.ebay.com/itm/B-O-ICEpower-125ASX2-Class-D-amplifier-module-new-old-stock-/182573247581?ha... Best, E |
Oh man. I broke one of my amps tonight. Miswired an IC I built. I need your genius class D smarts please. https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/oh-man-i-broke-my-class-d-amp-make-fun-of-me-then-help Pretty please? |
@confuse_upgradeitis - I used a crown xls1500 for about two years. This past winter I bought a used pair of Ghent audio class D monoblocks here on Audiogon. I was sceptical, since their power ratings were the same, but I was getting too curious about what, if anything, would sound different from my crown. What I’ve heard is an improvement in clarity, sound source separation, a reduction in harshness and an increase in bass clarity and smoothness. In addition, the sound stage is deeper and wider. Now, all of these differences took a few days, maybe a week, to discern. So, while it was a significant improvement, it wasn’t a quantum leap and I still greatly respect what the crown brought to my system for $325 brand stinking new. I did, however, go from a stereo amp to monos, so I can’t speak as to what improvements were due to a better amp and what were due to moving to monos. |
Great thread! Thanks to all for sharing :) I have to say something now................... I use Crown XLS amp with my pair of Magnepan 1.7i. I read online about Crown amps and maggies, and took the plunge. I am really happy with the sound. It has been little bit over a year I have this system primarily for 2.1 channel music listening. So far I have resisted the urge to switch my amp to something else - tube or ss, class A or A/B. One time almost bought a McIntosh MC452. But that was mostly for the sexy blue vumeter and to have some bragging rights as a McIntosh owner :) Occasionally I wonder though about switching to any of the other class Ds mentioned here like Bel Canto or W4S or NuPrime or Red Dragon. Will that improve the sound like what I constantly read in any amp or preamp discussion / review, like larger sound-stage or better separation of instruments or more air or faster micro-dynamics etc.? I don't know! |
Welcome @nonoise I must say, AA makes some of the very best looking gear. :) Also, there are a number of new (< 5years) dacs which sound outstanding at any resolution, and make Hi-Res and SACD less important to me. Thanks @mdeblanc glad you found a good resource. Let us know what you listen to and what you end up buying. Best, E |
@erik_squires Great thread, a godsend because I am in the market for another amp. This thread has given me a list of brands to consider. @kdude66 Good to hear your comments. I have a J2 and was considering an XA-30.8. So as you can see, your thoughts on your move to Class D was most helpful. If I take the plunge, I'll chime in with what I bought and my thoughts. Questions for me re my set-up, let me know. |
Hi @rhale64 and welcome! Funny you mention the Parasound A23’s. I have to say that going to Class D did not improve imaging. I found the A23’s in my set up to be great imaging amps. Maybe because I ran them as dual mono? I used them in a 4.1 channel setup, so one amp was L /LS and the other R/RS. I have always gotten that sense of music coming out of nowhere with these speakers, whether it was class A/AB or D. As I recall, the one technical area where the Parasound stereo amps are a little weak are in the crosstalk spec. I am very happy you are having such a great experience with a multi-channel amp though, I need to run 5 channels, and having a single unit would make things easier. :) Best, E |
I have owned three class D amps. I now own a ATI 523 and a 528. These will be used in a dedicated Atmos system. They are now being used in a dedicated theater. That has been well treated. Over the last 4 years I have owned Parsound Halo a23 and A5 2nd, Krell Chorus a Theta Dreadnaught D and these two. I can say without reservation that the class D amps are different sounding. I will add class D is simply incredible. To me the class D amps seem to float the sounds out of my speakers. The music never seems to come from the speakers themselves. But comes from out of thin air. I think they are incredible sounding. The Theta Dreadnaught D does use nc1200 modules on all channels. The ATI uses nc 500 and each different channel figuration has different size power supplies, all linear supplies. To the person above with the three channel 523, have you tried this to run your front three channels as I am doing? If not give it a try. It really is an awesome sounding amp. You might be pleased. I know I am |
jrunr, I don't know if you were addressing your comments to me or not. I have a AT523NC 3-channel Amplifier (200W RMS per channel). I only use it to power my center and rear channels in a 5.1 surround sound system. I simply love it. It's so much better than the Marantz SR5011 and the Marantz MM7055. It's provides more than enough power to all channels. It's very detailed and a relatively small amplifier. |
Don't even need a working amplifier to try this, just hook up two tubes and have them switch back and forth as you suggest. Please post the pics of the results. By pics, I mean of the smoke. :)Class D was first proposed in the 1940s. The problem isn't the switching, its finding tubes that could manage the current :) |
autre43 posts05-29-2017 4:52amAs Kenny ( kdude66 ) above mentioned the Red Dragon S-500 would be a good pick, and has come from the same lineage as the Rowland Continuum S2, that many here like, see here. https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/class-d-trash/post?postid=1428517#1428517 And if your handy you can just get the modules and make it yourself. Cheers George |
