I have noted a number of warnings about cheap Chinese fake cables on this site but curiosity led me to the Aliexpress site where I found a number of presumably fake big name cables from predominantly Cardas, Nordost and Siltech at about 15% of the USA or Australian price. I found Cardas Clear Light interconnects at about US$100 and decided what the heck let's give them a try at that price. Before buying I asked the seller the daft question as to whether they were genuine and got the reply that they were an OEM and constructed the interconnects from genuine Cardas cables and connectors. They arrived in a plastic bag rather than the Cardas box , not a great start but the cables looked real, and when connected, much to my surprise, they sounded really good. After 100hours or so burn in they sounded great and better than the Nordost Quatre Fils I had been using. I then took them to an Australian hi end dealer who sold real Cardas and asked rather ingenuously whether my cables were the real deal. The dealer would not commit but agreed to compare them to the real thing on a set up costing at a guess around A$100,00. Neither I nor the sales person could tell any difference so he then tried them against the Cardas Clear. Then there was some difference, not extreme but subtle, and certainly IMO not worth the price difference even if you bought the genuine Cardas Clear Light. So are these cables really fake and even if they are given my experience they are well worth a try. Maybe I'll try Nordost Odin or Siltech 770i next.
That's ironic. I was pouring over Aliexpress around the same time looking at these cables from various dealers. I decided to hold off and try something else for now, however I think there are a couple different scenarios that present themselves with these cables. Scenario 1 is the hope that these are made with the same cable material as the real deal product and that the Chinese manufacturer sold off extra product to local dealers either under the table or with slight name variances. Since final assembly on some products may be done back in the US, these Chinese products may be very close to the actual product. That's the dream scenario for buying these products, right? The other equally likely scenario (Scenario 2) is that the item has a fancy, similar appearance to the real deal, but is completely fake on the inside. Therefore a total bogus product and not worth even the time to consider. However, it's the lure of scenario 1 that makes these products so tempting and at the relatively low cost may be worth trying -- which leads me to think the makers and dealers of these products are aware of this minimal financial risk to out of market consumers (Americans, Europeans, etc.) so they use that to their advantage and produce complete fakes and price them to point where they "might just be the real deal" which takes me back to Scenario 2. This is why I decided to hold off.
However, I think it would be great if someone with some deeper pockets and more free time than myself wanted to start a Youtube channel simply for comparing Chi-Fi products and went as far as to have them disassembled for quality and material comparison. I think some of these products may be legit performers, while some may look the part on the outside but are constructed of foil chewing gum wrapper and coat hanger wire on the inside. Just don't be surprised if you get some calls from some legal departments of some top tier cable manufacturers if you take on that challenge.
You can not necessarily determine if the cables are real or fake by looking at them. You cannot tell if the cables have been cryo’d, which most high end cables are. You can’t tell if the copper is continuous cast copper or the purity or country of origin. You can’t tell how the welds were made on the connectors. You can’t tell if the cables have been controlled for directionality. As to how good the fakes are, they might be better than Brand X but they won’t be as good as the real thing. No way, Jose!
When I started this thread I mentioned that neither myself or the audio shop salesman could tell the difference between my fake Cardas Clear Light and the real thing. Geoff Kait seems to think that is not possible but I wonder how many Chinese cables Geoff has compared to the real thing. Anyway given my positive experience with the Cardas I decided to try the Odin copy for the mighty price of US$120. The result was amazing, better than the Cardas by far, so next on the list is the fake Odin 2. As I don't know anyone who has the means to buy the genuine Odin or even a Hi Fi shop in Australia likely to have a pair of interconnects lying around on their inventory I will never be able to compare my fake with the genuine article. I wonder how many of the naysayers re Chinese cables out there have actually tried them. I don't care what the cables look like, cryo'd or not, copper or connectors used, my sole criteria is what difference they make to the sound of my system and the fake cables I have tried so far make plenty difference and all positive.
mazian OP16 posts04-09-2019 3:36amWhen I started this thread I mentioned that neither myself or the audio shop salesman could tell the difference between my fake Cardas Clear Light and the real thing. Geoff Kait seems to think that is not possible but I wonder how many Chinese cables Geoff has compared to the real thing. Anyway given my positive experience with the Cardas I decided to try the Odin copy for the mighty price of US$120.
>>>>>Actually I didn’t say it was not possible. Please don’t force words down my throat.
As I oft counsel, no single test is conclusive for a great many reasons. Especially when the results are negative. Perhaps especially when the subject of the test is cables. Read my lips 👄. Conclusions regarding possible differences between two cables might be established after many tests by many listeners in many different systems. But these conclusions can be very elusive. That’s why Cable debates are still going strong after 40 years. Hel-loo!
"
I only wear Chinese shoes. The tears of the children manufacturing them makes them so supple. I like to wear them while drinking the blood of bald eagles. Makes me feel so young again"
I’m shock. Someone just informed me that there are also fake Purist Audio Design cables? All I know is that the day they (Chinese?) successfully make fake Synergistic Reserach active shielding cables/ cords, that’d be the day I’m looking into making my own cables or buying factory direct... so sad.
Greetings, I have been an audiophile for near 40 years I even had the privilege of working for Spectrum Loudspeakers of Toledo Ohio. Spectrums 108 model was hailed by Peter Moncrieff of IAR as the best budget speaker available in the 1980s. Due to my involvement with spectrum I developed the ability to hear. I was also allowed access to wires in the beginning of this industry. Monster and Kimber were in use for years, The Bigger the Better!
All has been bigger, better. I sought out the biggest wire I could buy. I have tried many cables. Fat wires including the Krell's Path. Two runs the size of a nickel per speaker. The Krell wire was pretty. But I confess it did not sound great. I have tried building cables, I even had a friend make me cables. All of the cables worked. But the sound was never exemplary.
Recently, I tried the Belden 9497 and The Duelund wire. I could hear the difference immediately! The Duelund wire is magical, unfortunately, the Duelund RCAs squealed painfully in my Krell system satellite system. I then tried the Belden 9497 wire single runs. It sounded, stealy but excellent. It is odd to me now considering that, I was unsatisfied with the sound in single runs, I doubled down. I actually purchased another set of the Belden 9497. The a few more feet for my second system.
The Belden cable changed my life! I say this because of post surgical gave me three months to listen. The double runs of BELDEN 9497 has made a greater improvement to my system than ANYTHING. By anything I mean I have been through and heard MILLIONS...
Recently, I attended a local hifi show and talked with the Audiquest Rep. and decided to try their new Z power cord. With the double runs of belden 9497 changes in the system are easy to discern. Ultimately, I purchased all audioquest power cables. Well, I say all, actually. A set of Siltech RCAs and Power cable became available. The Siltech power cable was better than the Audioquest power cables and all of the others that I have tried. I still have a HUGE Pangea AC9 cable on my Krell KSA 80. I can't believe these other skinny cable could be as good.
With the purchase of a Krell KAV 400xi, I decided to go with the Siltech. Due to the Siltech RCAs and Power Cables: Black Background, Detail, Musicality and DEPTH of Image. The Siltech sent my Kimber Silver Streaks packing... Along with my old sweet fat Cardas 300b Hexlinks.
That said, I purchased a pair of Balanced Audioquest Wel for $200. I received the cables put them in the, B&W 803s Oppo 205 to the Krell 400xi, beside the single ended RCA Siltech Cables. Initially, the WELs sound a bit ruff, without the Audioquest DBS system running. No Batteries were provided. After two days, with no DBS, the difference between the Siltech and Audioquest is subtle at best. The Siltech are nearly as good as the WEL cables.
Whether or not the Audioquest WEL cables are legit, I do not know, they rattle when tapped. That is suppose to be good? And these WEL cables are Excellent Sounding. The WEL cables have superb bass, Solid imaging, Full Midrange. The presence presented by these $200 WEL cables, have me twisting looking for things in my room. The sense of urgency and dynamics are startling! With the added bonus of such natural smooth transitions in dynamics, that I don't have to ride my volume control.
Let me be clear, after 40 years of audiophoolery the audioquest WEL cables are the Best that I have heard. Christopher Webbers Duelund RCA cables The Most Magical by FAR. I wish I could run them. The Webber Built rcas and balanced cables excel and out perform everything that i have heard. Instruments appear ALL over the place, DETAIL and MICRO DETAIL is breathtaking. I could consistently hear the air between the microphones, Instruments and Singers.
Over 40 year, I never heard much of a dramatic difference between Audio Cables. Much has improved with cable technology. To the extent that, I can say cables are as important as the electronics that you chose. You may never know, what your speakers and electronics are capable of without CAREFUL SPEAKER SETUP and CAREFUL CABLE selection. I don't think you will find a better speaker wire than the BELDEN 9497. Whether you run single runs with low powered tubes or double runs for higher powered applications.
The $200 Audioquest WEL that are available, may be the Second Best AUDIO bargain out there! BAR none! The WELS are HIGHLY RECOMMENDED!!! Spend the $6 grand on a trip.
The best is BELDEN 9497. Buy it, Try it, Cry-Money it is a buck a foot!
I have a fake pair of Cardas Cross speaker cables, 8 ft with bananas. Put a max bid in on eBay for $75 and won them for 65 bucks U.S. Pretty convincing looking though...the shrink is correct and even the outside diameter is within .001 inches. (Spec is .580 inch, measured .579 inch) not much weight to them, my genuine Quadlink 5c power cables feel much beefier despite being smaller.
Sound was just so-so..no different than any cheap generic 12 guage wire. They ended up in my HT system because I really dont care too much about HT.
It would be one thing if they were making their cables under there own name & marketing them that way to see if they could compete. But misrepresentation of a product is wrong on so many levels, it's pathetic.
The whole point of making a counterfeit is to rip you off. Most people are pissed when that happens.
I guess some people seem to have trouble picking up on the concept. I imagine this might give the counterfeiters some pause...maybe they’re not good enough at what they do??
1st counterfeiter: "Hey, are we supposed to be rippin' people off??? Or are we "manufacturers" now?? 2nd: "Hey, I dunno man, ya got me!"
@mikeybc , err sorry for mentioning this, but you realise that even a bone fide Cardas cable will sound the same as 12 gauge, right? Or maybe they're not fakes after all.
Why do you think cable manufacturers only gently, very gently IMPLY and SUGGEST that their products might be better than the norm?
I have never seen any cable ever advertised as offering better performance. There might be a reason for this too.
For cable manufacturers to decry Chinese fakes must be the greatest irony in audio.
Counterfeit cables not only are of much lower quality, but anyone caught selling them are subject to a Lanham Act lawsuit. eBay will not advertise them if told they are counterfeit. AudiogoN will not advertise them. Buy this junk, if you like, but I can tell you first hand, it will not perform as well. The exterior may look the same or similar, but if you cut one in half, it exposes the low quality of the product.
Err...half the UK audio industry has moved production out to China without any adverse quality control issues.
It's the implementation that counts. We used to hear this crap about Japanese cars until it sank in that they left the British made ones for dead when it came to QC and reliability. Ditto for motorbikes.
In fact it can be argued that British manufacturing, what's left of it, has improved dramatically because of this direct competition.
As for the quality of these goods, well there is always the acid test - listening. No wonder some cable makers / sellers are so troubled - their little racket party has been gatecrashed.
The Chinese probably can't believe the idiocy of westerners paying such prices for copper cables, or for polyester football shirts for that matter.....
There is a difference between a Foreign company using inexpensive labor in China to assemble or manufacture products using materials and methods supplied by the Foreign company in their own facility AND a Chinese company producing its own products with its own materials, methods, facility, etc. However, China is not shy about acquiring methods, materials, etc. any way it can, including espionage. Japan, on the other hand, produces great products. They always did. There is no comparison between China and Japan in that respect.
nice subject, we all buy from time to time fake or imitation products and in the end we wonder why we did not purchase original from the start. We are not rich to spend money like this. The good scenario is that nowadays a fake product will behave 70%-80% at best compared to original one but it is not genuine and ethic wise is not correct (reasons well expressed on all above comments). On the other hand today all products, be original or fake, have a decent quality at least. I do not have experience with fake copper made cables but avoid any Siltech imitation, they do not come even close.
Well, the consumer's attention has never in history been in such voracious demand as today. The sheer number of sites tracking everyone's online activity is bewildering.
I guess the consumer has responsibilities too, but at the end of the day we all want good value. Which is why Amazon is king right now. Just wish Mr Bezos was more willing to share his success with his colleagues. Never mind.
There is no grey area here. Counterfeit goods are illegal. If you use counterfeit goods you are also an infringer, and admiting it on a public forum. Doesn’t matter how good you think the counterfeit goods sound - you are contributing to lost jobs and supporting breaking the law.
Almost forgot Ive seen a lot of counterfeit Rean and Neutrik products coming out of china. These are 2-3 dollar Items. What do they have to gain by copying dollar items is beyond me.
I make and sell professional cables on ebay. Your absolutely wasting your time and money buying Chinese counterfeit cables. I have cut open Amazon and Chebay cables and found 2 strands of hair thin wire wrapped in paper. Look at the advertisings closely. It most likely has misspelled words throughout. Terms like Fashion OCOCC, OC-COCC, NP-OCOCC and ive even seen GAGA-CCOCC are RED FLAGS. Nowhere is the actual awg listed or the maker of the the cable. Some guy named wang in his flipflops made them. The Chinese love a good sucker. Buyer Beware. These Chinese sellers are a plague on the ebay community and I for one would love to get rid of them.
There's a seller on ebay describing his China cables in the description box and he is comparing them to Car Axles. Made of the same material as CV Joints. I kid you not. What in the world does a car axle have to do with audio cables? And he has sales. Its frigging unbelievable. The Chinese they have good fakes, in-between fakes, and god-awful fakes. But they're all Fake. Take your pick.
Can't talk about cable fakes...but in the guitar world it has been known for years that there are tons of fake Gibson Les Paul's out there. So much so, that the well known brick and mortar stores here in the US have sold these as real for years!! These very same fakes are so well made that unless you take the guitar apart, you would never know! Problem is that the fakes are many times sold for the same price as the real item! One of the reasons that I will not personally buy a new Les Paul. Presumably the fake cables are sold for a fraction of the real items price...which brings one to the old saying.." if it is too good to be true!"
BTW, anyone know about the fake cartridges that are being sold as the real deal??? Like fake Benz'es, Koetsu's, Clearaudio's etc..?
I purchased what I believe is a fake Furutech power cord with fake Oyaide 079 AC plugs while in Shanghai last year. At the time I didn't realize it was fake since I purchased it at a "hifi mall" which sold all types of high-end speakers and amplifiers which I'm pretty sure are authentic.
There was one stall that sold 2nd hand power cords and speaker cables (Siltech, Synergistic Research, Krell), and I ended up getting a Furutech Alpha PS-9 cord. Upon checking the Furutech website there's no Alpha PS-9 cord and the AC Plugs have no "Oyaide" brand printed on it. The same AC plug can be had on eBay for $10 upon checking. The sad news is that it sounds pretty darn good and was my 2nd favorite power cord.
Upon realizing this I've ordered an authentic Furutech power cord from eBay and authentic AC and IEC plugs from Chris at VH audio and will compare it to the "fake" one when I have received and installed it.
Welcome! I share your joy in carefully selecting Cabling for every system.
I, too, never (knowingly) purchase Audio junk-sourced to china. Not enough quality control nor vetting for me. It is no secret that some Cable companies secretly purchase the bulk materials from china as mentioned above. Worse, these same companies allow manufacturing out of the states, then bring products back in country. Tara Labs was popped a few years ago on this very practice/subject. Audioquest, Cardas and Wireworld may be guilty of their respective newer cable offerings.
I really like the Audioquest Storm Series Power Cords, for the record.
Prior to any purchase, ask questions , do your homework and research these manufacturers. Happy Listening!
Fake, clone, copy, imitation or any other name for that matter, those cables do work when you connect them to your equipment. Some of them ( like in my case) outperform highly touted U.S. made reference cables. The seller informed me when asked that they were a copy. Let’s say i’m happy with my $225 cables that replaced a $500 pair of cables. Just so we are clear, I’m aware some of them are real bad.
All I know is that the day they (Chinese?) successfully make fake Synergistic Reserach active shielding cables/ cords, that’d be the day I’m looking into making my own cables or buying factory direct... so sad.
Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner!
Haven't read them all its just too much nonsense but from a quick scan nasaman seems to be the only one who gets it.
Everyone's talking about counterfeits and fakes and its all beside the point. For all we know these may very well be legit cables - legit at least in the sense of being same materials, manufacture, etc. Just not legit in the sense they are being marketed legitimately with respect to trademark and other property rights we take for granted here in the West but are so universally disregarded in China.
Ted Denney III on the other hand, so far as I know all his wire is hand made right here in America, in California, and a lot of it by the same guy who has been building them for many, many years.
Anyone who has built anything high end audio related, one of the first things you learn is every little detail matters. Just one reason DIY cables are such crap. Clearly what the OP is talking about is not crap. It seems to be indistinguishable from the originals. Therefore, either it is indeed the exact same thing just taken from production and sold outside approved channels, or the OP, et al, can't hear.
My bet is these cables are the real deal. Just cheap. Because the companies involved, instead of doing the hard work of learning to build something good enough to be built right here in the USA and still compete on price, have decided to farm out production.
If that happened they're the ones being ripped off. Which is just fine with me. Only adds to my respect for Ted Denney and Synergisitic Research, for refusing to play that game.
I bought last week a pair of Odin 2 XLR from Aliexpress. Clearly fake but sounds very good for the money. I replace an old synergistic apex and odin 2I sounds better, clearly In bass punch and definition. Keep warm sounds off my DAC denafrips, pre ARC ref 3 and power ARC ref 110 and LUMIN A1. I bought another one. I connect it between DAC and pre. When the new one arrives I’ll test connecting pre and power.
I (unknowingly) got a set of what I believe to be fake speaker cables from an auction site. The quality is on par with other cables from Awdio ####. There are silver and copper strands, just like there was supposed to be. The cable ends are spot on. The braiding, the wire loom covering, cable junctions...all of it is on point. I would be fairly confident in saying that they came from the same line that makes them for the mfg. I just got a couple sets of interconnects today, five days to get to me from China. They look spot on. I will take a look deeper internally to see what they are constructed of underneath.
Well, inside the cable is silver wire (which is was supposed to be.) It has a smudge of silicone, so pretty sure that is not the normal spec. The craftsmanship and finish are impressive. I won't have them installed until next week, but they definitely look the part.
That's usually the case, the "fake" cables are off the same manufacturing line using the same materials, just without the inordinate amount of mark-up and profit. When you consider the idea of getting ripped off, you gotta wonder who is really doing the ripping off.
With perhaps rare exception, they are not from the same manufacturer. Cosmetically they look very similar, but when you open one up, they use cheap materials. They are nothing alike. You are gullible to think differently.
I’ll take Chinese ’fake’ OFC copper (99.95% copper or the higher purity 99.99% copper) cables anytime of the day over extortionately priced strange hybrids be they interconnects or speaker wires. I have absolutely no need to be deceived by ’genuine’ manufacturers anymore.
Seriously.
If someone wants to decry fake cables then let them present some evidence that their own are superior in performance. It shouldn’t be hard should it? Resistance induction and capacitance are all easily measured yet strangely NEVER EVER mentioned by manufacturers and dealers. Ask yourself, why not?
This is nothing like the fake headphone scams where the similarities are largely only cosmetic. Or cheaply made computer parts such as Power Supplies, RAM or SSDs. Sometimes too many corners get cut.
On the other hand some Chinese goods can actually be of high quality. I’ve had several ’unknown branded’ phones from China and they rivalled from my iPhone 6s Plus in performance apart from inferior camera quality and lack of updates (which I didn’t need as I don’t keep them for more than 2/3 years anyway). One budget model even bettered the iPhone in battery life and screen quality as it had an OLED screen which Apple didn’t adopt til much later.
And all of this at less than 1/4 of the price. Great value for the consumer I’d say.
Back to the main point I’d say if manufacturers argue that Chinese cables are a scam, then let them present some or even ANY evidence that their products aren’t a FAR FAR bigger scam.
Overpriced cables remain the oldest and greatest scam in the already dubious world of domestic audio retail.
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