Hello Ejlif,
I am unsure of this, as I've never personally taken this route, because luckily, every transaction I've ever had here on Audiogon have been absolutely flawless, regardless if I was the Seller, or the Buyer of goods.
So far, I have been very happy, and 100% satisfied with my membership here, with both the classifieds, and also the priviledge of being a participating member of the forums as well.
What I believe makes Audiogon a good provided service, and resource for it's members, is that most here choose to do business in an honorable, and truthful manner.
With that being said, I feel you as a buyer are definitely entitled to the terms of service that Audiogon provides for its Members, and without adherence to such guidlines, and terms, would we then allow unscrupulous business transactions, thus duping the unsuspecting to be allowed?
I am unsure of this, but there may be no need over concern about the issuance of a negative feedback being given by you, or the worry of a retaliatory feedback from a less than honorable seller.
I once years ago had little choice on ebay to give a negative feedback, and thus got retalitory from the low life seller, over a Marantz 2330B Reciever, listed as mint, and basically was a basket case instead, and since ebay's largest concern was they got thier money from the seller for listing his/her Auction Listing, I got the only neg in all my feedback over the years. I rarely if ever use ebay anymore because of this, bacause ebay has little interest in who is right, or wrong.
The seller though lost his account, due to many negative feedbacks, and then I understand from one buyer, threatened the buyer with sending him a virus on his computer.
If I were you, I would carefully read the Dipute terms, and guidlines to fully understand what your rights are under Audiogon Agreement. The seller may have very well not noticed the flaws of this Cartridge, but from what you have written sounds to me more like he's denied that there was any damage, and claims it was YOU who damaged the Cartridge. This to me, is grounds for a dispute process to take place.
Don't feel like you are "The Bad Guy" for initiating such a process, that's what it's here for, and IMO neglecting this process, you have in effect let Audiogon turn into another ebay. Mark |
Ejlif : Best to you and Peter will be there if you are in need of assistence. |
I did file a complaint and basically Audiogon did nothing to help. I was at least hoping they would put it up in the member diputes forum and that it could be decided amongst our members who was right and who was wrong.
I ended up mounting the cart and it seems to work fine. It's just not what was advertised and not what I paid for. John Pevarski AKA Backpaddle on Audiogon is who I bought it from. I'd leave him negative feedback, but he'll just do the same and I'm not going to tarnish my perfect record of 10 years for this piece of $hit guy. |
Ejlif : Should you get stuck , the cart maybe refirbed with www.soundsmith.com . Best folks I know to deal with. Peter is a true gentleman, if he can help you are in good hands. Personally, I can't stand cheats on AG, do file a complaint. |
I can say with complete certainty that if anyone bought my used Dynavector 20XL that they would be getting a solid cartridge that works perfect and has approx 100-150 hours. I guess the real problem is that I didn't buy my cart from the right type of seller. I should have investigated him a bit more. His cart was a good deal and I just said I'll take it. It's not like it's a lot of money, it's more the point of it all that bugs me.
I'll just have to delve more into a person's character from now on and find out if they are worthy of selling a used cartridge or not. If I knew without a doubt that I would be happy forever with any one cartridge I would buy a new one and just be done with it. Even that sounds like it can be a risky proposition! |
I have just as many problems with new cartridges, to the extent that I will only purchase a new cartridge if the dealer has it in stock and I am able to examine it myself. |
John,
I agree 100%. One never knows what a cart has gone through. |
Neil, I agree with all that you say. That's good advice when buying used audio gear. However, I still say "Don't buy used phono cartridges". It is BY FAR the riskiest investment that you can possibly make in used audio. Mostly because the wear and tear are not visible to the naked eye. I learned this lesson the hard way years ago. Hopefully more than Ryan will learn from this. Buy the best NEW cartridge that you like and/or can afford.
Cheers,
John |
In business, in audio deals (even retail audio deals) -- and especially stuff like cartridges, remember little 'Dee Dee': DUE DILIGENCE. Check new and used prices, forum discussions of the item, ask the seller every question you can think of, and then ask a wise old audio friend if you forgot anything! None of this costs you or the seller anything but a few minutes of time. Picking it up in person? Check everything; make a list beforehand if you're easily distracted.
Another thing: even if the box it comes in doesn't look damaged, photograph the unpacking process (well, digital cameras aren't for serious photography are they?) Just do it, and don't be in such a hurry to plug your new joy toy into some juice. A little discipline can save a lot of ass! And post-mortems like this one would be unnecessary.
. |
Donshoemaker -- I tracked down the microscope you recommended -- pretty neat device (although it's now $100 ;-) What I want to know; is the head removable from the base - and could one then look at the stylus (from the side) with the cartridge mounted in the tonearm?
Thanks,
Neil |
Why don't you do like Nsgarch say's-
"sounds like good advice"
spend MORE time, MORE money, just bend over and enjoy it.
Now that sounds like great advice, Nsgarch! |
Well as an update the guy refuses to do anything. So we are off to Audiogon mediation I guess. I'd just leave the guy a nice fat negative feedback and be done with it, but there is the worry of him just retaliating and doing the same. I did nothing wrong and have stellar feedback. I make sure to take care of anyone who buys from me and don't want that perfect track record of 8 years tarnished because of some a$$hole from Reno. I may just have to chalk it up as a loss and hope it works OK and just keep it forever. |
One of the neat little tools I picked up a couple of years ago was a "Digital Blue" computer microscope that sold for around $50. at Toys R Us. I don't think they carry it anymore,but you can still buy them online. It is good enough to see the overall condition and dirt on the stylus tip and cantilever. It also has a built in digital camera that will let you take a snapshot and email a photo of the stylus. This paid for itself with me when I was sent a table/arm/cartridge with a Blue Point Special that had a creased cantilever. To the naked eye it looked slightly skewed,the microscope clearly revealed the crease! Took a picture,emailed the seller and he sent me a partial refund.This will also lend credibility if you sell a cartridge as you can post a picture of it in your ad. |
Part of the risk you take in buying a cartridge.
Ask for a close up photo of the cantilever and ask specifically if the cantilever is straight and not twisted.
That being said, unless the cantilever is making contact with part of the cartridge it shouldn't, it can still be mounted. I find the old Wally tractors easiest for this.
Another point - I find that Dynavectors are commonly off, and I am not surprised that a Dynavector is the culprit in this case. |
I'm sure it doesn't have only 10 hours on it. That's just like the old "check is in the mail" routine. There is no way to know how many hours are on a used cartridge. There is no way of telling how hard a cartridge was run (excess VTF, misalignment, etc). There is no way of knowing that the cartridge was set up and/or cared for properly. There is no way of knowing whether or not you even bought it from the original owner. Even with a receipt, it could have been a store demo.
Too many variables buying a used cartridge to even consider it, IMHO.
Happy New Year,
John |
Looked at it one more time with a good light and magnifying lense and not only is the cantelver not straight or "true" but it is extremely crudded up with gunk and dust, something I would not think would happen with a cart with only 10 hours on it? I have a cart with at least 100 hours since I bought it new and it looks very clean and not coated with crud and gunk. |
Thanks for all the responses, this is some really good advise.
I really can't say for sure that the seller is refusing anything, other than I haven't heard back from him for a day, but that is no big deal, it's a holiday.
I just wanted to get the general consensous as to what I should do here and it sounds like returning it for a refund is the the way to go.
It was advertised as 9/10 10 hours of use and like new. |
It may or may not be a problem. It really depends on how out of true the cantilever is. Raul gives the best advice, IMO. As far as resale goes, who in their right mind would purchase a twice owned cartridge without the expectation that it would need rebuilding? |
So, don't accept the cartridge, demand a refund. If he refuses, please post his name so we can avoid him.
That sounds like good advice Oregon, and it would certainly helps the rest of us to know the seller's name, except if the seller refuses (like it sounds he might) that leaves Ejlif exactly nowhere, and possibly facing charges of false accusation and slander. Negotiation is always the best policy if one has no proof -- which BTW was the same problem you faced. . |
I would second Raul's advice on this matter. Many cartridges have cantilevers which are slightly off centre. My new Orpheus does but as long as you align the cantilever rather than the body(as Tubeo suggested) you should be fine and my Orpheus sounds wonderful. Even the Transfiguration owners manual advises this type of alignment suggesting it is a regular in not frequent occurrence. |
My strong opinion is to demand a refund- especially if rated 8 or 9 and no indication the it was "not straight".
I purchased a BRAND NEW 17 D III last year from Stereotypes in Portland, OR. I, nor they, looked at when I picked it up (my mistake). BTW, I picked it up after waiting 2 months, I was told it would be there in one week.
After mounting it, it skipped across the LP . I looked closely and noticed the cantilever was bent. Whether this happened when it skipped, or it was bent and therefore it skipped, I honestly don't know.
Of course, I would never sell it to anyone in this condition.
I went back to Stereotypes and I was informed that it is store policy to have the customer inspect the cart to confirm with them that it is indeed straight before they leave the store, sign the receipt. This did not happen.
Long story short, I paid an additional $300 to get a replacement.
My feeling is the store was wrong, they should have replaced the cart for free. They did not stick to their policy to confirm all was good. (Had I known this, I would have complied).
I doubt I screwed it up as I've mounted dozens of carts on dozens of table/arm combos. never a problem.
I will never go back to Steroetypes of Portland, Oregon. I felt I ought to support my local audio store, and got burned.
BTW, after I returned the cart, I emailed the distributor and he said to have Stereotypes return it to him, that he would most likely replace it, no questions asked. Too late, said Terry.
So, don't accept the cartridge, demand a refund. If he refuses, please post his name so we can avoid him. |
Before you start having anxiety attacks and/or get into an embroglio with the seller, notify the seller that you will take the time and money (something he should have done) to have Dynavector check the cartridge and verify that the slight off center cantilever does not indicate damage and that the cartridge is perfectly servicable. OTHERWISE, you will expect a refund of your purchase price or for him to pay for any necessary repair -- his choice.
. |
Dear Ejlif: I'm almost sure that the cartridge perform right on Dynavector targets.
IMHO, the point here is if you think that " some day " maybe you want to put on sale if this is the case then ask for a full refund but if you think to keep it " for ever " then just keep it, enjoy it and forget about.
regards and enjoy the music.
Raul. |
IF what you say is true, make sure you let AUDIOGON know in detail exactly what occured. you never even removed the cartridge from the mounting plate and the seller needs to take it back immediately for a full refund including shipping. if he does NOT do this he should be prohibited from selling here ever again. i would be very concerned about buying a used cartridge myself unless it was a local deal and i could personally inspect it. the diamond on my benz cartridge is so tiny i can barely see it with the naked eye. |
The word is not "straight". Yes, I am sure the cantilever on the 17D2 is straight. I cannot be bent. It's made of a single diamond crystal and cannot be bent. It will just snap off. That's why the guy said it was straight under a microscope.
The real word is more like "true". I guess Ejif was meaning was that the cantilever is not pointing straight ahead. A little skewed to either side or off center. How much is it off?
As for your situation, ask the seller for a full refund or at least a partial one. Is the seller a reputable guy? How's his past feedback? |
I'd ask for a refund too. I am all for buying used gear, but I would never buy a used cartridge though. I learned my lesson there years ago. Descriptions and opinions differ greatly on how "used" a cartrdige is.
Cheers,
John |
If it was mine, Id consider it useless, get my money back and get a new cartridge. A bent cantilever can not be fixed except by replacing it. By "straightening", it, whose to say that the diamond is in its optimum position. No thanks = not for me. |
I bought the same Cartridge early last year [2007 ha ha] . There was no mention of an off line Cantilever in the Ad although it was about 10 degrees off line . I negotiated a partial refund of 25% and kept it . This was after I tried the Cartridge . I aligned the Cantilever rather than the Cartridge Body . This is easily done on most Alignment Protractors . IMO the sound and integrity was not compromised at all .
My concern like yours was with selling the Dynavector some day . I couldn't in all honesty not mention the problem . I will have to ask less than if the Cantilever were straight . This is why I asked for a partial refund .
I hope this helps . |
If it was rated as a 9 or 10 then I would ask for a refund. Its not as advertised. |
I have a real allergy to people NOT accurately describing their gear. First, I'd ask myself if this fellow has stellar feedback. If he does, he should want to keep it that way by making you happy. If he has lousy feedback, you should have never done business with him. |
