@ Bo1972, Hi, I know everyone at Taralabs, I believe if you wanted to sell their cables there in the neitherlands, I can make that happen!, regardless of what happened to the distributor there!, you can be the new distributor!, As we both know, there is no such cable as the best because of system synergies are different, I believe adding Taralabs to your list of available products will also be part of some of your shows where customers can experience real sound like some of the other brands of cables you sell do!,adding more variety never hurts your sales, and the cable brand will up hold your reputation as best sound at the shows!, I recommend selling the 0.8ex on up the cable food chain to the top model!, and you could be part of premiering Taralabs new top cables coming out at the years end, They have not had to make a new top cable for 14 years!, so, you can imagine the rest of the industry would take another 8 to 14 years to rival their new top cable again, they will have in addition to the new top cable, a new line as well made just fow wide band amplifiers and componets!, I have been friends with Taralabs since 1996!, As a matter of fact they have offered me to be a dealer!, would be nice!, thou I can sell their cables, I do not have the capital to go for it, maybe one day soon, but not today!,,, cheers!
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Odin is a Nordost cable, so it has Nordost properties. As you know I owned the Valhalla for over 12 years and I sold many Valhalla and other Nordost cables for a long period of time. I know exactly what it does and what are there weaknesses. I have done a lot of Nordost tests. Odin had a lot more authority over Valhalla and a better sound. But......still the same properties. This means.....less depth, not an extreme sharp individual focus and the overwhole sound is stil not as in real. This year I was a t a show were they used Odin. So Bobby thought mmmmmmm articulation test. Bruce Springsteen's Brothers under the Bridge gave the answer. You could hear some sss and tt and th. But it was by far not of the same openness as the Redwood does with this part. |
@Audiolabyrinth; I sold Taralabs for over 2 years of time. I loved the brand. But Holland was not important enough for them. The company who did Taralabs in Holland had many problems for receiving the cables we sold. At the end they stopped. They have still a little in stock, sometimes I still sell Taralabs loudspeaker cable |
Audio is not my work, nor it is my hobby but a part of who I am. This is what I do for a living these days. It never has been work for me. Because it does not cost a lot of energy. It is like 1 and 1 is two. I am addicted to music sinch I was 6. So yessss music is my favorite hobby. A system is only a way to play the music you love. But it can make you enjoy your personal music more. I am gifted to have a photographic memory in sound. It makes listening a lot more easy. Wenn I change a cable of source I know exactly what the difference is between the first and the second option. Wenn I listend to classical music at my friends house I was stunned about the intimate sound of voices and instruments. I wanted a system what could give me the same feeling. I am a perfectionist in everyhing I do. I love to compare and Always looking for the best. Why? Because I want the best, like I want my clients to get the best for there money. I would love to give every person in the world a system like I have. Because I want people to enjoy music. I Always say: I sell emotion. The world of audio is not a nice world. Why? because many many people really don't care what there customers get, they just want to earn as much money as they can. I really don't f..care. I want every person to get the best sound as possible for there money. These days in the Netherlands cause of the economic situation the world of audio has a very difficult time. The thing what happens and what I dislike most. Is that shopkeepers are only focussed on how much money the earn for the set. People in shops are told which products will give more money. I call this coloured selling. This I really hate. Because it is the opposite of how I work and think. I never will change the way how I work. I love audio so much that I never could lie to people. |
@ Johnsonwu, Hi, Have you tried the Taralabs zero gold interconnects, omega gold speaker cables, cobalt a/c power cables???, LOL!, whats funny is that these cables are copper, and I can tell you that they have as much or more focus than the best silver cables in the world!, and the state of the art body of sound to boot!, I bought these cables over nordost odins, which was a little faster, but it ends there!, the Taras sounded a little warmer and more musical!, not so analitical sounding as the odins!, now thats on my system, I have seen where the odins sounded better on a diferent kind of system than what I have, I use solid state componets and tube componets,with JBL speakers, To me, the Taralabs cables mentioned above had the most realistic sound I know of!, they, As Bo would put it, sounded like the real event of music!,, Happy listening! |
It is the speed what makes the Pl-200 special. In speed, focus, depth and in sound it is a lot better than the PL-300. I owned this before the Pl-200. I was never convinced about this speaker. It uses a different filter what makes it a lot different than the Pl-200. The Pl-200 can make a veru wide and deep stage just like Avalon does. But within this stage the focus of instruments and voices is a lot more touchable. It is a 3d image many people never heard in audio before. I also use the 2013 Redwood loudspeakercable, Purist Audio Limited 2013 powercable, Acapella xlr pure silver interconnect and a KE Powersource+ netfilter ( which is superior to the best filters PS Audio makes, I compared them) I played over 8 years with Nautilus 802 and 800 S. B&W weakness are there crossover filters. They are very poor in depth. Wenn you have a wide and deep stage music is superior in realism and it is a lot more addictive to listen. This weekend I bought many new cd's and music bluray's. At the end it is about music!! |
I see Focal utopia uses silver wiring internally (or was it just tinted?) but uses Solen PPE and even bipolar lytics for the midrange. Quad uses lytics for the input filter and non-audio grade wiring. I had B&W silver sig 30s before, silver everywhere but didnt sound good to me, very "phasey" or lack thereof shall I say. I definitely can imagine how your 90dB efficient Monitor Audio matches silver cables. |
I use Monitor Audio PL-200. Which use also full silver internal. Monitor Audio Always want to use better materials in there speakers than other brands use. Why you think Avalon closses there speakers? I met a person who owned the Diamonds. He opened the speakers ( which was not easy to do) and he was amazed about the simple filters and cheap internal wire they use. Simple copper. The Pl-200 also uses the best WBT terminals. ( platinum version) Copper often works better wenn there is copperwire internal. But.......the difference between silver and copper is stunning. Wenn copper works better you probably have copper internal. Believe me you loose speed, resolution and focus. Realism in sound is often better with silver. Because Avalon uses simple copper inside ( more cheap for them) you cannot use silver. So thanks to Avalon you get a lower end result. At the show in April were I was with my set, other sets had less resolution. I was amazed about how less information there was. This were very expensive sets like the Magico S1 with Zanden and Kubala Sosna Elation cabels. For example Bruce Springsteen ; Brothers under the Bridge. The ss and ttt and th of his words were almost not there. My image was even superior in depth, speed and in 3d touchable image of instruments and voices. |
Bo1972 can you remind me what your speakers are? I believe certain cables match with certain speakers. My experience tells me high efficiency speakers are not as picky about cables vs current hogs. I do have all-silver speaker cables in my collection, they work well with my Focals. Not so with the Eidolons. El Cheapo Canare 411s for some wicked reason works best with my Quad 989s which have since been sold. Beats Cardas Golden Cross and Tara Reference and Master Gen2. I wouldn't dismiss the benefits of speaker cables with those mystery boxes which I believe is just a choke in series plus a small shunting cap which kills off HF noise and makes the sound more tame. All depends on the setup and the listener's taste. |
The latest Audioquest cables are from a new level what I never heard from any cable brand. I tested hundreds of cables in 15 years of time. Blacks are by far the best ever from a cable. It is the most intimate sound what I heard in my life. First time that I had the same feeling as the classical concerts at my friends house. Here I learned how direct and small instruments and voices sound in real. Believe me Avalon has not an exteme sharp individual focus. People who own Avalon understand and agree wenn they listend to my set that the touchable 3d image is superior to there Avalon speakers. The Redwood 2013 version which I use is pure silver and copper. The low's are full copper and mid/hig freq is pure silver. All my interconnects are full silver. Pure silver is so much more open and live like than any copper cable. The best silver cables have no harshness in the mid and hig freq. This Redwood is also superior in timing and speed to the Valhalla of Nordost which I used and owned for over 12 years. |
Just a matter of personal taste. The last thing I need is any sharper focus with Avalon Eidolons and I currently own two pairs. They focus, they pinpoint, but they get lean with many cables so avalon recommends fuzzier sounding stuff like Cardas to soften things up. Not sure about them recommending MIT still as the MIT stuff was for Ascent and Radian 2C3D systems. Make no mistake I like audioquest stuff. |
I sold MIT cables and I owned the most expensive Powercables. The problem of MIT is that they can give a wide and deep stage. But the individual focus of instruments and voices is not sharp as in real. Avalon users are told thay they should use MIT. How stuppid can you be? This is only based on personal interests. Avalon you need cables who can give a very sharp individual focus. I recently sold a Avalon Oak to a client/friend with Avalon speakers. It was superior to the e 5000,0 MIT cable in every aspect. Now he has the sharpest individual focys I ever heard from an Avalon speaker. The boxes MIT uses give you less mid freq. The Oak was superior in the mid freq. So much more musical and richer mid freq. People want you to believe that you should use a brand they say. F.....'m. I can promiss you one thing: YOU WILL NOT GET THE BEST CABLE FOR THE MONEY YOU SPEND. |
@ Bo1972, I love your post here, I realized cables were the game changer all the way back in 1996 and 1997, when I used The Taralabs the one with grounding stations, and the Taralabs the one speaker cables to silence the laughing on a spectral, avalon, mit system!, I took the spectral amp out and replaced it with a Krell fpb 600, and ripped out all of the top of the line mit cables that had these ridiculous boxes in the signal path on the cables!The Krell, Taralabs combo put a priceless look on their faces, I will never forget as long as I live!, It was proven to all that laughed at what I was doing, The Taralabs cables are better than mit cables, and Krell was way more musical than spectral!,, cheers! |
Audio will always be a personal thing. You cannot think for others. Respect them, you don't have to agree with eachother. But be polite. I have my own opinion as well. At the end it is about what you hear. In the last 10 years I did a lot of blind tests for my clients. Many were amazed about the quality what cables can give these days. What I do is making an a-b comparison. I Always use a cheaper spource, amp or speaker with a not expensive cable. And a more expensive cable with a less expensive source, amp or speaker. So people understand more easilly what the difference is. These days the quality is so good that I can get a higher end result with a more expensive cable and less expensive source, amp or speaker. I want every client to get the most for the money they spend. So I Always give them different options to choose. In highend audio without the best available cables you Always will loose. I love audioshows because I like to blow every other set away. This gives me always a very big smile on my face. Good cables help me a lot to achieve this. |
Hi Mitch2, I bet those Clayton M-300 amps sound incredible. I bet they have your AA 9 speakers in a vise-grip! I owned a pair of Clayton Audio M-100 monoblock amps a few years back, and IMHO, Wilson Shen and Stan Klyne are two of the best solid state designers in the business. I regret selling them. Steve McCormack does very good work as well. Those three men put out products that consistently embarrass many more expensive, better advertised solid state gear. |
Hey Mitch2, first let me say that I really like your preamp! Looking very nice! Bet it sounds great too! Would love to be able to collaborate with Steve have something similar done with my TLC-1 Deluxe. Do you have remote volume control? I really want to go all out, but I just cannot afford a VRE-1 at this time. I recently picked up a DNA-1 Deluxe with Gold Edition upgrades from SMcAudio. This tapped out my audio budget, but was well worth the price paid! Next, I must tell you that the Tara Labs Air 1 sc and ic cabling in my system has changed the game for me. I experienced huge improvements in sound quality and musical enjoyment in comparison to the many cables I had tried in the past! So there are significantly better cables out there worth trying. |
So what you are trying to say is that if you choose your components carefully, then all you need the cables to do is transfer signal from one component to the next? That will probably make choosing the right cable a lot easier and far less costly. No?Not exactly, but rather that while different cables do sound different to me I have not found a good correlation between money spent and sound quality, and also that money spent on electronics and speakers generally offers greater improvements than on cables. I am not saying that just any old wire will sound good. My SCs and ICs are multiple wire, solid core, thin gauge, high quality copper in a minimal natural dielectric. SCs are star quad configured with separate runs for LF and MF/HF in biwire. ICs are either consistently spaced single wire or braided multiple wire. They all have high quality connectors. The cables are as short as possible while facilitating a relaxed routing between gear. I spent a lot of years, and a lot of time, trying different manufactured cables and DIY cables and believing the next great thing would make a significant improvement but often being disappointed. I am sure there are great sounding cables out there and I would like to try them but I no longer feel compelled to keep trying new things. |
Mitch2, So what you are trying to say is that if you choose your components carefully, then all you need the cables to do is transfer signal from one component to the next? That will probably make choosing the right cable a lot easier and far less costly. No? Audiolabyrinth, "I am one of the gentlemen you are referring to!, I believe cables are, if not more important than eanything in a system!, Thats my many, many years experience!, Its just an opinion!, like yours!, my cables cost way more than my entire system cost!, and my system is an exspensive one to me!, I have about $65,000.00 retail price!" You must have a mean streak. You through out a comment like that and you don't even say what kind of cables you have! If they're that good, I need to get some. If I had to guess I'd say Kimber, or maybe Monster? Which one is it? |
@ mitch2, I enjoyed reading your post, very well written!, however, I am one of the gentlemen you are referring to!, I believe cables are, if not more important than eanything in a system!, Thats my many, many years experience!, Its just an opinion!, like yours!, my cables cost way more than my entire system cost!, and my system is an exspensive one to me!, I have about $65,000.00 retail price!, Of course I do not Have that kind of money into it!, LOL!,I try to save money!, cheers to you! |
Mitch2, have you tried any of Tara Labs higher end offerings? I had no idea what a cable could do for a good system until I used Tara Labs Air 1 speaker and interconnect cable. I thought Analysis Plus Solo Crystal Oval was as good as I could do on my budget. Some older and more experienced gentlemen here on the forum turned me on to Tara Labs. I now have the overwhelming sense that this is a very serious audio system I am living with. Good luck with your system and happy listening to you as well! |
In response to the OP's question, the more I do this the less I believe in hype and the more comfortable I am with my own opinions of what makes a difference and what doesn't, at least to me. While I do hear differences between different cables, I hear far, far greater differences between different equipment and speakers. For example, I had some very good amps through here recently but regardless of what cables I used them with, they were never going to sound as good to me as my current amps. The cables were far and away secondary to the inherent sound of the amps. At the end of the day, cables are made from wire, dielectric and geometry (and not a small amount of psychological voodo). The differences I hear seem more associated with one of those three factors than with anything else. Of course, there are a lot of options such as solid vs. stranded, wire gauge, a single wire vs. multiple wires, silver vs. copper vs. other conductor materials, dielectric materials, minimal dielectric vs. well-damped, a wide range of connector options, and the sometimes overlooked factor of cable length. Isn't it interesting that cable manufacturers stay away from the question of length? Cables do not add to the quality of sound your equipment reproduces from your media, they can only degrade. Ever notice how many top equipment designers pride themselves on laying out internals to result in "short signal paths?" Then how can long cable runs possibly be a good thing for anyone but those selling cables? I have never heard adequate explanations from those manufacturers who say power cords should be a minimum of 2M in length, or speaker cables should be 8 feet long. The only thing I have heard that makes sense to me is to use cables that are long enough so they don't have to be bent or angled too sharply to make the connections. In other words, keep them as short as possible, but no shorter. Over the years, I have used top cables by Cardas, Purist, Acoustic Zen, Harmonic Technology, Audioquest, and others. They all sound different but, to me, none have ever made a fundamental change in the sound of the equipment they were connected to. I have found that I like the sound of cables made from high quality solid core copper wire with a minimal, natural dielectric and so my ICs and SCs are made by me using those materials, conventionally accepted geometries, and high quality connectors. I have some other manufactured cables around here that I occasionally use for comparison but I keep gravitating back to the sound of my own cables. I have made my power cords from premanufactured bulk cable that uses PCOCC wire, and they also have highly regarded terminations by Furutech or Oyaide. I simply have not found anything that I like better over the long run. Also, my cables are short. The longest cables in my system are barely over 1M in length, except for my one holdover manufactured cable, a 2M power cord by Isoclean that retails for over $1K. It sounds good but not any better than other PCs I have made. I only keep it because its not worth the effort of selling it on the used market just to replace it with something similar that I can make with bulk cable. That Isoclean power cable runs from a dedicated outlet to an Isoclean power filter that my front end gear is connected to. My amps are connected to individual dedicated 20A lines. I have found better noise reduction using dedicated lines than from any cables or power conditioners I have used. These discussions are fun to read because everyone has to travel their own path but the thing I find most interesting is the amount of money spent on cables to fulfill the obsession of creating a "perfect sound." Although not discounting the amount of engineering that goes into designing cables, I find the ratio of retail price to materials and manufacturing costs to be incredible. The cornerstone of a successful cable manufacturing company seems to be a good marketing department. Fortunately for the manufacturers, there have been no shortage of customers willing to pay large amounts of money on cables so their systems can reach "the next plateau." I wonder how many veils can be lifted, or how many plateaus can be reached, by spending money on cables instead of investing in better electronics and/or speakers? I will close by saying there are certainly systems much more resolved and better sounding than mine, and I respect the opinions of those who say expensive cables make a profound difference in the sound of their systems. My comments simply reflect my own opinions and viewpoints after doing this audio thing for awhile now. We all hear what we hear, we all have our own individual system goals, and we all enjoy tinkering with our systems or we wouldn't be here - happy listening. |
No doubt the below links should be included in this thread, and probably some of the best answers. http://community.klipsch.com/forums/storage/4/1237745/Rodrigues%20-%20market%20quotes.jpg http://usr.audioasylum.com/images/2/29607/speaker_cables.gif http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=58443 Enjoy!! |
These last two post are a real reality!,Teach the kids to love music!, buy them an instrument, give them lessons!, when they are babys, play clasical music at low volumes at the crib!,, LOL!, by the time they are our age, well?, they will be like us!, Audiophiles!, How do I know?,LOL!, This happened to me!, cheers! |
"So we are audio nuts....who cares???" Maybe your wife and kids? Maybe more than you realize. Yeah, right who cares? But you gotta admit, if we are going to be honest, and we are honest, right? We are really a peculiar lot, even among ourselves. How about the cable issue for starters? And so begins the journey down the rabbit hole of belief vs atheism. And where lies the truth? Does anyone care but to boast their opinion? "I trust my ears". "It doesn't matter what your ears hear, an electrical signal passing through wire can not alter the sound" Naw, it's about the music with the wife in the background muttering under her breath, yeah, right! And you expect her to think that you aren't, at least a little bit nuts? At least with her clothes she is adorning herself with a visible end result while we bicker over minuata over what we can or can't hear. It's a funny thing, being an audiophile, that is. |
My wife and kids don't give me strange looks anymore, they have adapted to my insanity. My wife will allow that my system sounds 'very nice' if pushed, but I know that she thinks it is a huge waste of money on the inside. So we just don't talk about it. I guess she feels the same way about my audio system as I feel about her wardrobe. Her clothes look very nice, but she spends waaaaay too much money on them. LOL!! The kids, they just don't get it.....an iPod is all the music that anyone needs in their opinion. So we are audio nuts....who cares??? |
Hello. I thank you for the welcome. The upgrade bug bit me a few months ago when I noticed a gentleman was offering to sell his Simaudio i3.3 Amplifier here on Agon. He was kind enough to sell it to me. I love it! That amp (even with an ordinary power cord) made my speakers sing! Now I'm thinking of upgrading to better, more 'appropriate' speakers. My wife and son already give me strange looks when I tell them about this or that piece of audio gear. ;-) |
05-19-13: Mresseguie Oh-oh......Alice has just fallen down the rabbit hole! Buckle up for a long, strange trip! LOL! In all seriousness, I find it interesting that a power cord started this process for you. For most, myself included, finding changes in cables comes first, followed by experimenting with power cords. I concur that power cords are a trip unto themselves....welcome to Wonderland!! LOL!! |
I'm almost afraid to post this, but here goes... I just started (okay, restarted) this hobby after a 25 year hiatus. I just upgraded my stock power cable (looks just like a computer power cable) to a Shunyata Venom 3. I can hear a big difference. My speakers sound better to me. I have not compared them to a $3000.00 cable. I don't need to do that. For the time being, I am quite smitten by this cable's contribution to my enjoyment. Perhaps, as I progress down this road of improvements, I will try another, better cable, but not now. I'm using simple 14 gauge speaker wire. I am told such and such speaker cable will have a huge impact. Since switching out my power cable had a noticeable effect, I am now willing to entertain the idea of better speaker cables. Just my humble thoughts. Regards... |
I believe Analysis Plus does this free promotion with musicians and studios marketing. |
@ zd542,,LOL! You got me laughing again!, please excuse me!, your contexts are hilarious! I am not aware of that happening my self! would be cool!, one station or studio would sound better than the next!, I think we are on to something!, how can the both of us make something like this really happen?, the cable companys would make alot of money thru promotion of the product!, lets get paid!, I am not kidding!,, cheers! |
The funny part is that I'm not kidding. I really don't know of any high end cable companies that give cables to studios. It sounds like a good idea. I'd do it if I had a cable company. Maybe its politics. Maybe its business. Where do you draw the line? $1000 per meter seems like a good cutoff point. I'm really not sure. |
@ audiozen, Please forgive me, I am only 46 years of age, that should explain it to you, what do I know?, I never said I listened to an audiophile recording from that time period, I said I heard recordings that did not sound that good to me from that time period, your choices of that time period looks to be some sort of state of the art recordings from that time period that I really know nothing about,LOL!, Happy listening! |
Audiolabyrinth.."never heard a recording that sounded like it was realistic sounding from the 50's and 60's"..you gotta be kidding!!..RCA and Columbia were putting out stunning quality recordings in the late 50's. One darn good example is from the Grand Master himself, Miles Davis. The "Kind of Blue" album was released in August '59. The recent CD remaster issues are stunning to listen to. Back then the studio's were using all tube equipment in their sessions which is why many of the recordings from that time period sound so good. |