Cables more hype than value?

In response to the OP's question, the more I do this the less I believe in hype and the more comfortable I am with my own opinions of what makes a difference and what doesn't, at least to me. While I do hear differences between different cables, I hear far, far greater differences between different equipment and speakers. For example, I had some very good amps through here recently but regardless of what cables I used them with, they were never going to sound as good to me as my current amps. The cables were far and away secondary to the inherent sound of the amps.

At the end of the day, cables are made from wire, dielectric and geometry (and not a small amount of psychological voodo). The differences I hear seem more associated with one of those three factors than with anything else. Of course, there are a lot of options such as solid vs. stranded, wire gauge, a single wire vs. multiple wires, silver vs. copper vs. other conductor materials, dielectric materials, minimal dielectric vs. well-damped, a wide range of connector options, and the sometimes overlooked factor of cable length.

Isn't it interesting that cable manufacturers stay away from the question of length? Cables do not add to the quality of sound your equipment reproduces from your media, they can only degrade. Ever notice how many top equipment designers pride themselves on laying out internals to result in "short signal paths?" Then how can long cable runs possibly be a good thing for anyone but those selling cables? I have never heard adequate explanations from those manufacturers who say power cords should be a minimum of 2M in length, or speaker cables should be 8 feet long. The only thing I have heard that makes sense to me is to use cables that are long enough so they don't have to be bent or angled too sharply to make the connections. In other words, keep them as short as possible, but no shorter.

Over the years, I have used top cables by Cardas, Purist, Acoustic Zen, Harmonic Technology, Audioquest, and others. They all sound different but, to me, none have ever made a fundamental change in the sound of the equipment they were connected to. I have found that I like the sound of cables made from high quality solid core copper wire with a minimal, natural dielectric and so my ICs and SCs are made by me using those materials, conventionally accepted geometries, and high quality connectors. I have some other manufactured cables around here that I occasionally use for comparison but I keep gravitating back to the sound of my own cables. I have made my power cords from premanufactured bulk cable that uses PCOCC wire, and they also have highly regarded terminations by Furutech or Oyaide. I simply have not found anything that I like better over the long run. Also, my cables are short. The longest cables in my system are barely over 1M in length, except for my one holdover manufactured cable, a 2M power cord by Isoclean that retails for over $1K. It sounds good but not any better than other PCs I have made. I only keep it because its not worth the effort of selling it on the used market just to replace it with something similar that I can make with bulk cable. That Isoclean power cable runs from a dedicated outlet to an Isoclean power filter that my front end gear is connected to. My amps are connected to individual dedicated 20A lines. I have found better noise reduction using dedicated lines than from any cables or power conditioners I have used.

These discussions are fun to read because everyone has to travel their own path but the thing I find most interesting is the amount of money spent on cables to fulfill the obsession of creating a "perfect sound." Although not discounting the amount of engineering that goes into designing cables, I find the ratio of retail price to materials and manufacturing costs to be incredible. The cornerstone of a successful cable manufacturing company seems to be a good marketing department. Fortunately for the manufacturers, there have been no shortage of customers willing to pay large amounts of money on cables so their systems can reach "the next plateau." I wonder how many veils can be lifted, or how many plateaus can be reached, by spending money on cables instead of investing in better electronics and/or speakers?

I will close by saying there are certainly systems much more resolved and better sounding than mine, and I respect the opinions of those who say expensive cables make a profound difference in the sound of their systems. My comments simply reflect my own opinions and viewpoints after doing this audio thing for awhile now. We all hear what we hear, we all have our own individual system goals, and we all enjoy tinkering with our systems or we wouldn't be here - happy listening.

So what you are trying to say is that if you choose your components carefully, then all you need the cables to do is transfer signal from one component to the next? That will probably make choosing the right cable a lot easier and far less costly. No?

Not exactly, but rather that while different cables do sound different to me I have not found a good correlation between money spent and sound quality, and also that money spent on electronics and speakers generally offers greater improvements than on cables.

I am not saying that just any old wire will sound good. My SCs and ICs are multiple wire, solid core, thin gauge, high quality copper in a minimal natural dielectric. SCs are star quad configured with separate runs for LF and MF/HF in biwire. ICs are either consistently spaced single wire or braided multiple wire. They all have high quality connectors. The cables are as short as possible while facilitating a relaxed routing between gear. I spent a lot of years, and a lot of time, trying different manufactured cables and DIY cables and believing the next great thing would make a significant improvement but often being disappointed. I am sure there are great sounding cables out there and I would like to try them but I no longer feel compelled to keep trying new things.

hype may be a marketing ploy by manufacturers

ya think?

Do you think other companies are going to sit back and let them rule the roost?

I think that horse has already fled the barn and is into the next county. Sure, some companies offer their own cables (another is Ayre who offers cables constructed by Cardas) but folks are so into buying what they want that whether a manufacturer offers cables or not is virtually a moot point.
Sure some manufacturers will offer their own cables as a convenience to customers, but more likely as another way to make money because, the cable industry has been a money-maker for many...for the very reason stated in the question that started this thread.

I agree that some brands display very high construction quality but my question remains, "is the price justified relative to the level of sonic improvement provided by using uber-expensive cables?"

I do hear sonic differences between cables, and I prefer the sound of some cables over others, but IME the "level of improvement" resulting from changes in cabling comes nowhere near the level of improvement possible by changing source components, amplification or speakers.

When you factor in the high cost of many cables for what is really just wire with increasingly fancier ancillaries such as stainless steel collars, carbon fiber coverings, electic bias systems, network boxes, etc., one could argue the cable industry is a magic bean that has grown beyond all proportion based on the need that audiophiles have to keep up with the pack on the road to audio nirvana.