Cable manufacturers?

Using all Furutech power cords and some interconnects Furutech makes all there own cables.

How do you define 'manufacture their own cable'? Almost no one draws their own wire, but plenty of manufacturers do a lot more than throw on some jacketing and terminations. There is winding and geometry, dialectrics, shielding, and plenty more. Some makers mix different conducting materials. Many have wire custom drawn for them. There are many levels and facets to manufacturing.

By manufacture, I mean their own wire

I was gonna forge the wire of my generation in the smithy of my soul

but then I decided... ah what the hell

We make our own 'conductor'. Not 'wire', in this case. :)

Well, there's determining which way the ARROWS go, for one thing. And cryogenically treating them, which almost all self-respecting high end companies do. Termination is critical, too.

Zavato, you are correct, most have to buy the wire, then make the conductor with some wire geometry based on pseudo science, give the geometry some exotic name, terminate with off-the-shelf plugs, dress them up, mark them up 1000% and viola - you now have audiophile cables!

Is this just another one in a long series of all wire sounds the same with a different premise thread? 

Eggs Akley! If it walks like a troll, etc., etc.

Eggs Akley & the Vulture Demonesses!

zavato: "By manufacture, I mean their own wire"

The real question when you get down to basics is:

How many of them mine and smelt their own metal, which is used to make the wire?

So, cable manufacturers (designers and assemblers) must be alchemist? Can't tell if your post is humor. I hope so.

Dave

"Anyone have any actual Information?"

OP, what are you planning to do with this info?

To answer your query, I believe Acrolink and Oyaide manufacture their own wire (conductor). 

Cardas either makes his, or has it made for him. Lots of other companies buy their wire from him, including Audio Advisor/Pangea.

The only question in my mind is who the heck makes eight 9s copper wire and who makes the long crystal wire or single crystal wire? Oh, and which country has the best sounding copper?

I don’t think it is possible to make 8 9’s copper or 8 9’s purity in anything.

But I’m ready to be wrong about that.

the OCC processes, is, IIRC... used for making the physically longest known and 'commercially realized' single crystals in copper wire.

Which country has the best sounding copper is probably debatable.

Considering the exactness of the process for OCC (Ohno Continuous Cast)(Dr. Atsumi Ohno) , and it’s origins in Japan, it might be that Japan has the best sounding copper. Not all OCC copper is created equal.

teo_audio, you wrote "Considering the exactness of the process for OCC (Ohno Continuous Cast)(Dr. Atsumi Ohno) , and it's origins in Japan, it might be that Japan has the best sounding copper."

Now I don't understand, as far I know, besides Furukawa in Japan, only Wan Lung of Taiwan has the license to produce OCC formula-based wire, so is Wan Lung's product inferior? I'm talking about the raw wire, which many world-famous manufacturers buy from them.

Cabledyne sources their ISO9001 (6 nines) and ISO9002 (7 nines) pure silver wire from WL Electronics in Taiwan and states that it’s one of the top suppliers. It’s single crystal UP-OCC high purity silver wire.

With the wild west attitude that Asia brings to market, it’s reasonably certain that the quality is right up there with Japan since it meets ISO certification.

All the best,
Nonoise

Well, I didn't start this thread for any other point except curiosity. So I don't plan to do anything with this information. And in case anyone is wondering, I don't believe all cable sounds the same.  I do believe that there is some truly astonishing BS being peddled. And there are some excellent cables too. Personally, I am a fan of OCC cable. 

@nonoise, Thank you for sharing the Cabledyne info. Have you tried their cables? I am inclined to try out their 'Virtuoso' RCA digital cable.  

@lalitk 
No, I haven't tried them but I was seriously considering them before I went for some Zu Audio Event speaker cables that were so nicely discounted that I couldn't resist. 😃

All the best,
Nonoise

@ hasmarto,


IIRC there are 6? places that make OCC using the hardware. I don't know how many are 'approved', in any case. My guess was and is an off the cuff guess on qualities, as I stopped investigating wire, when I stumbled into the understanding that conducting a simile of a plasma arc strike through the equivalent of a conductive heavy gas, was far more true to the signal. As the signal and conductor could be as they should, which is 'as one', in the dynamic flow domain, which is where impedance becomes a problem and consideration. The impedance issue remains a problem with solid wire and ceases to be as big of a problem in a conductive molecular-level fluid. In solid lattice structure it is a problem in the delta of the transient domain, which is critical to the ear. In a fluid conductor, a true fluid, this is where the problem area and issue --- least exists. Not as conductive as a lattice structure copper or silver... but the problem area that concerns the ear - is virtually gone. And a whole whack of other stuff going on....

On the subject of the wire...I'm referring to the "PC-OCC' as opposed to OCC, in case there is a difference in how it is labelled and sold, etc.Your response seems to be indicating there is possibly this difference, of OCC vs PC-OCC.

Love the gibberish

The Wan Lung factory in Taiwan is licensed to produces UP-OCC Copper and UP-OCC Silver for the Audio Sensibility, Acoustic Zen, Atlas Cables, DoubleHelix, Harmonic Technology, Neotech, XLO, Analysis Plus, MIT, Purist Audio Design, WireWorld

Furukawa of Japan is licensed to produce PCOCC Copper for Audio Sensibility, Audience, Audioquest, Furutech, Oyaide, PS Audio

Sumitomo of Japan is also licensed to produce OCC cables

randy-11
Love the gibberish

By gibberish one assumes you mean anything with more than one syllable 

Mr. Teo, do you have a technical paper you could point me to about this whole atomic/molecular-level liquid conductor?  I mean a real peer reviewed and published scientific paper.  I have an advanced Engineering degree, I can handle it:) I always like to learn new things and I am hoping this is not like the infamous clever little clock or some brilliant pebbles that were peddled on Audiogon.

I’m describing a conductive fluid, with the ’fluid’ distinction being one of a true fluid, which is with ’free molecules’ as the main component. Not that of a fluid carrier with large chunks of material. That would not be a fluid.

If you want to know of a fluid that exhibits such mentioned behaviour, you can look at fluids that are off center in their pH, as that is one area where such happens. Battery acid, for one, or other similar fluids. Voltage differential enabling conductivity and whatnot. Ie, that one possible descriptor for neon gas is ’semiconductor’, or more correctly, ’diode’. but it may be possible to make a neon semiconductor, but is it worth the effort? How about mercury diodes? (mercury arc rectifiers)

There are no white papers as the sciences of such are well established. But only in gross terms, not in the specifics of what goes on at the electron orbital level. That component is not well established.

Some recent clues for the curious:

https://phys.org/news/2017-07-electron-orbitals-key-concept-high-temperature.html

 (I've been taken to task and attacked, ridiculed, etc.. over the past few years for using the term 'electron orbital alignment', as being a key component of what is going on in the fluid, regarding it's behaviour. Now emergent science says such. Again. Not the first time. No, not by a long shot... the science emerges in a parallel path and merges into a defined set of parameters. But first comes the exploration and the sometimes sheer violence of the detractors.)

https://phys.org/news/2017-06-propagating-density-fluctuations-superconducting-copper.html

https://phys.org/news/2017-07-scientists-electrons-vibrating-atoms.html

It is as the normal case in the human world, where we can engineer solutions using components we poorly understand. Ie, that we still don’t understand and are still learning new things about even -cement/concrete.

https://phys.org/news/2017-07-ancient-concrete-romans.html

The people doing the engineering will probably get to the area of understanding the given intricacies long before the theoretical searching and scientific labeling/descriptors. Ie, that the science is ’real’ long before it is put into the scientific record and engineering record. To not make entry into the lexicon being the only reality... as that behaviour is the ’future killing’ sin of dogma.

The people doing the engineering and experimentation in this specific case/scenario -- it’s pretty well just me. And this is, sadly, a commercial endeavor. So I’m into the idea of hinting, but people have to do their own work. If I was into brutal and uncaring commercialism, I’d not even stray into the idea of any form of sharing or hints. The downside is, I’m many times taken to task by people who don’t really think this through, and/or don’t have the backdrop to look into it. the people who do understand, rarely, if ever, comment. They desire the hassle and stress less than I. Perhaps they are smarter than I in the sense of seeking the easier path.

As for measurement anomalies, those are commonplace in the analysis of the conductive fluid in use in these cables - as done in the main laboratories of a major technical component manufacturer, and a major telecom.

The behaviour of wire and insulation, under a given transient load, is well known. And that the ear responds almost solely to transients, is also well known. And many more details.

One puts it all on the same table... and sorts through it...

"Mr. Teo, do you have a technical paper you could point me to about this whole atomic/molecular-level liquid conductor?  I mean a real peer reviewed and published scientific paper.  I have an advanced Engineering degree, I can handle it:) I always like to learn new things and I am hoping this is not like the infamous clever little clock or some brilliant pebbles that were peddled on Audiogon."

No, of course not.  But you knew that...

with the amount of advances in technology and metallurgy in the audiophile cable industry they should set their sights on ending world hunger.

I love it when the cable forum blasts off into outer space.

"Mr. Teo, do you have a technical paper you could point me to about this whole atomic/molecular-level liquid conductor? I mean a real peer reviewed and published scientific paper. I have an advanced Engineering degree, I can handle it:) I always like to learn new things and I am hoping this is not like the infamous clever little clock or some brilliant pebbles that were peddled on Audiogon."

Whoa! What? Hey, Did I just detect a subtle bashing of the Clever Little Clock and Brilliant Pebbles? They aren’t no. 1 on Agon for nothing, ya know. Geez, they’re looking for peer reviewed scientific papers again? Must be the Skeptic Society working overtime. This is a hobby, not a NASA mission to Mars. Hel-loo! You always want to learn new things. I’m sure!

I like the spirit of OP's initial query.  Hopefully, the big guys are not junk-sourcing to china like so many audio electronic companies. Valid questions.

Thanks! for sharing- brf

Happy Listening!

News flash!! - sourcing to China is a nothing burger. Sinophobia, plain and simple.

China can build anything at any level there is .
 USA has 10% of industrial capacity it had at start of WW II and has an economy based upon selling slips of paper aka Wall St .

Whoa! What? Hey, Did I just detect a subtle bashing of the Clever Little Clock and Brilliant Pebbles?

Subtle bashing?  No, I was pretty direct.  Of all the snake-oil peddlers on this site, you rank #1.  Congrats!

Gee, thanks, sitonicus et rotarius. Yup, we’ve been no. 1 in sales and feedback here like forever. My Teleportation Tweak is not chopped liver, you know, so you might consider Including him in your ravings the next time around.

Ah yes, teleportation.  The best thing invented since the Voodoo doll.

A single photon is the first object to be teleported from the ground to an orbiting satellite

Talk about hype. Uh, they didn’t actually teleport an object. It’s quantum teleportation, you know, quantum entanglement. Jeff Goldblum, on the other hand, did transport himself from one pod to another. Well, almost.

It won't be long now. Data transmission is a given, taken for granted. Working our way up to solid matter is just a matter of time.  It won't be pretty, but they will try.

In the meantime, refinements will trickle down to our neck of the woods and we'll be wondering what all the hubbub was back in the day.

All the best,
Nonoise

Geoff:
Sure that is true. But some of us might want to be brundlefly, some day..

(I don’t ... but might accidentally push the odd person into the given pod while tripping on the activation switch)

Doesn’t have anything to do with data transmission I’m happy to report. Nor does it have anything to do with solid matter. It’s bigger than that. Much bigger! Can't talk now, gotta go.  Beam me up, Scotty! 😛

Yes, the Chinese are pushing hard enough that the 'scientific advances for the gullible' that the us places in the public domain...  are no longer enough to cover up their black ops works, which have gone on for over 7 decades.

The article states that the Chinese are now ahead of the US. Nothing could be further from the truth. The Chinese are playing catch up and theft, at a minimum.

The official publicly stated amounts of recent  (past decade) money missing from pentagon coffers, which many presume have gone into black ops and technology....now sits at over 6 trillion US dollars.

It's not a case of the Chinese moving ahead of the US, it's a case of asking what the two-tier US technology system is hiding from the public.

From what I can gather the US is ahead in the race to see who can kill a goat by staring at it.  No goats, no glory.

Das Goat?

If the Chinese can get a herd of goats to stare photons into space, that's when I'll start to worry.

That’s when we’ll launch the GTO into GSO. It will Judge the situation accordingly.

Or channel Snowden.

Das Goat? Love it! Good one, Teo.