As for my opinion, I dont need or have time for evidence. All I know, my system does sound different with different crafted power cords. I chose the PCs that sound best to me no matter how much they cost and technology used. All my PCs are custom made to my specs and to my liking. That is my preference and decision after testing many PCs. Therefore, my conclusion is yes PCs do change the sound of an audio system and each PC sounds different on different equipment. My suggestion is that everyone experiment and have fun and start listening to the art of music. |
Hi Carl. ..."I spent $1000 on a power cord and Wow!", it sounds like "I spent $1000 on a power cord and it sounds no different but I don't want to admit I got conned by the HiFi shop." You're right, it does sound just like that! Some enthusiasts are so ashamed of being so duped they won't even exercise the money back policy many manufacturers and I assume some retailers offer. We had one poor soul buy four line cords from us and after some time called us to say how awesome his system was sounding. I knew what he was really saying and I felt really bad for him so I apologized. He bought two more. Poor guy must have a real victim mentality that he thrives on. I apologize to you too. I lied with my brief explanation. Even though a "cable" possesses resistance, inductance, capacitance, has a reactance, carries a voltage and current within a closed loop system, can have a mechanical and electrical resonance, etc., ect. an AC cord cannot be a circuit. Therefore.... I'm sorry: there is no "evidence" that line cords can make a difference so, of course they don't. Whether by measurement or by ear, such methods of evaluation are completely useless. Having said all that, I'm just having fun with you. Hope you're having fun too. Kindly, Robert RSAD |
Joeyboynj, pray tell us how you specify your PCs if you don't know how or why they change the sound. |
I'm afraid I'll just have to wait for someone who does have the time to post some evidence. It must be nice to have endless funds to experiment with many different power cords "no matter how much they cost" and "custom made to my specs" as Joeyboynj does, but many of us need a little more than faith to spend hundreds or thousands of dollars on a power cord that may or may not do anything to an audio system.
Once again, if anyone can direct me to any research/evidence on this topic, I'll happily be educated and corrected. |
Carl...
Sorry friend - no one is likely going to spend time trying to convince you. Judging the content of your responses, you already have your mind made up.
If you really and honestly wanted to know, it seems you would do what others have done to become convinced or not: Listen. If you want "Evidence", it will be in your taking the time to listen. Research or documentation is not evidence. It only predicts or explains something. Research and documentation is readily available if you took some time to search it out but I bet you'd dismiss it as some type of hype.
I said "If you consider a line cord as a type of circuit rather than wire, there lies the answer." This is true but instead of "considering" it to maybe lead to some discover for yourself, you dismissed it.
Between all the different price points of after market AC cords of good reputation and the return policies many of them come with, using your ears to provide evidence seems like a "no brainer" with no risk.
If you've listened to a few well regarded after market cords and heard no difference, then be content with your experience and go enjoy your music. Be kind to remember this though:
The universe does not revolve around your experience or only what you're willing or able to grasp.
Liver and Onions tastes bad. I can't taste anything good about it. I hear there's reports that say it's an American favorite and it's got some nutrition in it. I tastes bad. My Wife loves Liver and Onions. So I punched her in the boob and divorced her.
Best to you,
Robert
RSAD |
To Ridgestreetaudio, I appreciate all your replies, and I take on board the fact that many audiophiles genuinely hear a difference with every tweak they make to their system; I recently upgraded my speaker cables and can hear a definite improvement to my system's dynamics and a crisper top end. My argument doesn't apply to speaker cables and interconnects.
I guess my issue with power cords is this:
If you look at speaker cables, these form the entire link between amplifier and speaker, and therefore their impact on the signal can be profound. A PC, on the other hand, constitutes only a fraction of the AC power "loop" that extends all the way from the power generator to your components - an extension cord, in effect - and I therefore can't see how it can possibly impact on a system's sound. Not to mention the fact that the power supplies within high end gear should be able to have a greater smoothing and calming effect on the power supply than a few feet of power cord.
However, I will endeavour to listen and compare PC's when I can and trust my ears, which is I guess all any of us can do.
Thanks for an interesting debate. |
Carl Wrote: ...I will endeavour to listen and compare PC's when I can and trust my ears, which is I guess all any of us can do." Good for you Carl. I trust you'll hear the importance of what good AC cords can bring to the table. When you experience that, remember this that I'll share with you: First, cables are not a "tweak" as it appears you suggest. A tweak (or an accessory) is something your system can perform with or without. Equipment is stuff that your system needs in order to function. Cables are equipment. In context of that, I've firmly come to the conclusion that good AC cords are foundational to a music system. Before any other partnering cabling, they can begin to show what a given music system is capable of. Sound crazy? Yea, I suppose so. We expect to be emotionally impacted by out system's playback. Not so much intellectually stimulated by understanding all the whys of performance. Like going to a good concert - You come away with "Man...that was Good!" Not "Boy...that was Right!" Easy enough to understand to some degree why S/Cs or I/Cs might contribute to our emotional experience without becoming an EE. Simple as they may seem, AC cords a another story. It doesn't as readily make sense that a power cord can do wonders for a system. They need to be looked at differently than S/Cs or I/Cs. Understandably, many enthusiasts don't care to know all the intellectual reasons why an AC cord can allow a system to operate more efficiently. After a ragged day at work, most of us just want to settle down with maybe a good glass of wine and be emotionally nurtured with some good music. Not come home and do more work by testing dielectrics for capacitors, write the charts of our music collection or study wire theories. We really don't care so much if we can grasp all the workings of our music system. It's more about "Is this thing making music magical to me?". Add power cords as an important means to get there. You might get a kick out of this: Some years ago, I dismissed the importance of power cords. Hell, almost twenty years ago I dismissed wire period. Today, I place AC cords at the top of cable or system hierarchy. That's quite a turn about. As it goes on these boards sometimes, I can hear it - Perhaps one would say of cable manufacturers (us included) "Well duh!, you make yer bucks from sellin' cables. You gotta promote AC cords." That's not true - take AC cords out of a product line and, if you're good at what you do, you'd still have a business that's worth the effort and that makes a good difference for folks. I would also counter by saying that many passionate high end manufacturers produce products out of what they themselves use. Not what can I make to turn a buck. They trust their "creation" would be of value to others and offer it in the market place. The market bears whether there's any value of one's efforts and the buck takes care of itself. Win/Win for everyone. Anyway, I hope there's a bit of insight for you here. Let us know what you find when you get to auditioning some power cords. Might be useful for others. Cheers! Robert RSAD |
Here is another angle on how to consider power cords and why they affect our systems. Robert commented on thinking of the cable as a circuit, perhaps a different word for the same concept is a filter. I have a friend who first introduced this word to me a few years ago to describing audio cables. (Power, interconnects and speaker cables) Here is the logic and why this word made sense to me.
A cable can not "add" to the signal, it is only able to degrade the signal. In the perfect world the signal would be carried from point "A" to point "B" with no alteration. I hope we can all agree this is not functionally possible, although we might read various hype that claims to have solved it.
The fact is, no matter how a cable is constructed, it will have some impact on the signal being carried. The wire matters, the gauge and make up both affect the signal. The dialectic (material around the wire) impacts the signal as it possesses different electrical "storage" potential, thus altering the signal electrically. The shielding will affect the signal "electrically" and shield the signal from outside interference.
Please understand my lay person logic and language towards these issues. I am not an engineer or even a simply electrical hobbyist. My views are quite naive, I understand this. Please look beyond this for the concept and not attack me for misusage of the words I chose to relay the concept.
It all matters, in the example of power cable, the newest designs are quite elaborate in their designs. The weave or braid being incorporated to bundle wires are often very complex and have sound logic in noise rejection. Not only are these configured as a straight filter in the wire interface, but they often have very elaborate dielectric and shielding designs that both reject outside interference and absorb line bound noise within the conductor.
I realize the science to explain the concepts being developed are behind the actual practice. In audio I believe the hobbyist often discovers things through trial and error. This is then elaborated on through the hobbyist, and eventually an engineer might try to explain what is happening. The problem many of the scientist are having (In my opinion) is the language does not yet exist to describe what we hobbyists are hearing.
Now I understand this conversation has now gone into the place where arguments start, but this is not my intent. I am just trying to explain a concept that is very logical to me, and helps me move beyond the argument and science to the enjoy the result level.
I have a very dear old Audiogon friend in New Zealand who keeps in touch with me. He has been a DIY hobbyist for years, and through experimenting has developed some excellent results. He was at lunch one day and the topic of cable performance came up. Well, one thing lead to another, but the result was he ended up meeting with a professor at the University in Auckland. This man has been researching the science behind the very issues we have been arguing over for the past ten years. Turns out there is A LOT of science behind what we are hearing. In a quantum physics world, micro and nano vibration have measurable affects on electrical signals. These affects have not been explained because first we did not know they existed, and secondly we had no equipment to measure it.
The point is, this man plans on publishing a paper regarding exactly what we have been asking for, but his findings will not be released for about a year. It turns out there are many scientists in our Universities who are studying these issues to help resolve signal transfer brought on by nano technology. The smaller the circuit for example, the larger the quantum noise and movements affect the circuit. Perhaps the most logical example is with nano tubes. When an electrical signal is passed through a nano tube , the electrons that were in a complex interaction all line up and quite down. This of course will reduce heat (which is primarily what these scientist are concerned with) but it will also reduce noise. I do not know how much the noise issue will be of interest to these scientists, but it is of interest to us.
Of course one man amongst us has understood these concepts for many years. Jack Bybee has developed products that work on quantum noise. The sad thing is instead of embracing this man, we ridiculed him because he had no science. Fact is he has a great deal of science behind his thinking, and fact is much of it remains classified.
The point is, the science and measurements are being worked on. Now my question is; should we ignore the results we hear because the science is lagging behind? Or should we continue to experiment through the hobbyist mentality of trial and error and enjoy the results of our fellow hobbyists?
Robert is one of these men who chose to embrace the results of his experiments and chose to share these findings with the community by starting a company. This is how 90% of this hobby is developed and how it advances.
My concept is to enjoy the results. The science will come, but to simply ignore the elephant in the room because no one knows what it is or how to explain its existence is a bit silly. Some day we will have the evolutionary classification behind the elephant, and we will have volumes of documentation to describe how this beast came to be, and how to measure it scientifically, but for now I am just going to accept that it indeed exists, and that is really all the proof I need.
jd |
To inpepinnovations@aol.com,
I contact Don at DCCA Audio and specify how I want my PC's to sound and he makes them for me exactly how I ask. Thats how. |
Joeyboynj, How does one go about specifying desired cable performance? Does one merely provide one's equipment make, model number(s), and any available specs? Since the consensus is that cables are component or system-dependant, how does a cable designer/manufacturer guarantee a cables performance without utilizing the customers actual components?
Just curious how the process works. |
So, Joeyboynj, Don knows how those effects work, but is keeping it secret from you?
Bob P. |
inpepinnovations@aol.com, Im not an engineer, just a music lover. Don at DCCA Audio is a cable designer just like RidgeStreetAudio and such. I dont ask about how he designs his cables. That is why I hire him to make me my cables. I tell him what I want and he sends them to me. Why dont you e-mail him and ask him a few questions and maybe demo some of his fine cables and find out for yourself.
Metro04, I tell Don at DCCA Audio what audio qualities I enjoy and what type of sound I am looking for. I also provide custom specs of how long the cable should be and the connector positions so the cables fit perfectly in my rack. DCCA sends them to me and I take a listen on my system. I made requests of any changes in sound quaities and I send them back for adjustment. The cables come back tailored to my specific likings for my specific system. These are my experiences and this is what worked for me. I'm just passing on my findings. I'm happy and that is all that is important.
Enough said let's move on... |
I use to think that cables were an afterthought, but as my system developed over time, wires became the weakest link by far. I have since adjusted my outlook towards cables, I would consider cables to be a primary component, like an amp or preamp. |
Hi RidgeStreetAudio, I guess my definition of a tweak is altering the existing equipment in some way to make an incremental improvement. Replacing the supplied PC with an aftermarket upgrade is in my view a "tweak", just as upgrading speaker cables and interconnects from what you already have to something that performs better is a tweak.
I realise a power cable is equipment in the sense that the component wont work without it, but upgrading to something better (and usually more expensive) is a tweak. |
There are only a few people who hit on the common sense behind this question and thread. If you are looking at spending several thousand or whatever on a new component and you try the component in mind and can find a new wire you heard about that is the same or less your only choice is to decide which makes the best or biggest difference. Cable makes a huge difference up to the point where you are close to optimal. Some of the best cables are not the most expensive. Some of the most expensive are far from neutral which confuses the issue when you throw coloration into the equation. Use your common sense in terms of letting your ability to hear changes or differences determine how much you spend. A budget component system with superb but pricey wire can outperform a system costing tens of thousands of dollars more that had medium priced mediocre wire. |
Just thought I'd chime in and say my current rig has north of $25K in wires...and I wouldn't have it any other way..really, I've tried the radio shack route and everything in-between, but the damn stuff is sooofreakin great!!! FYI- I use MIT Oracle V2.1 spkr and IC's with Transparent MM Reference power cords. |
i think a lot of the comments complicate the situation.
the question could be : how to get the most improvement in sound for a given sum of money ?
improvement is subjective and there is no definitive answer because it is not possible to audition every component in one's price range. if you can afford the cable and you like what it does, that should be suffiecient.
the cost of the cable relative to the cost of the rest of the system is irrelevant. |
"the question could be : how to get the most improvement in sound for a given sum of money ?"
That's easy - DIY
(but use one of the proven recipe's)
Enjoy,
Bob |
If your contemplating using non-networked wire, then DIY is a cost cutting alternative. I have owned many of the high end non-networked cables and have had mixed results Even the best non-networked cables failed to present the music in it;s full measure with unrestricted dynamic range, 3D imaging land ack of distortion..when I went to something other than MIT I was unimpressed! Transparent is more tweaky and can be a great fit or a horrible debacle. The latest MIT stuff is remarkable....one must have the desire to hear the magic and utilize the cables properly. In other words, the rest of the system must be sufficiently well put together to take agvantage of what they offer!! |
I have to disagree with you Dave b. My experience has taught me the better your system is, the less you'll want mystery box speaker cables. I know of several fabulously honed systems, including some of the finest SET systems, and the most power hungry, like my own. Some use highly engineered wires, such as VD, Cerious, and Shunyata, others have DIY silver, or copper ribbon. |
It may come down to how you listen. When I put on David Ott's Symphony #4 or Shostakovich's string quartets by the Emerson Quartet I need to be a part of the music, enveloped by the passion and power of the performance. Polite, nice pretty listening sessions are ok but when one needs to enter another world...the space where the musicians created the magic, nothing I've used comes close to my experience with MIT Oracle interfaces. |
I came across these the other day. List $3,400.00 pr, Has anyone had a chance to play with them.
Bybee Golden Goddess "Super Effect" Speaker Bullets
Thanks Don |
Aintitgr8, 6-9-07, makes sense in my book - I have $11k in cables in a $25k system and it sounds real to me, and I've heard systems 2-5 times the price with weak cabling that sound ring-ey and artificial. |
Just hooked up my new V2.2 Oracles...never have I experienced such a large transformation in sound quality in a system! The improvements are equal to or greater than most component changes. |
Well, my system must have some weird "synergies" because the best sounding interconnects I have heard in my system are the $12.00 Dayton ICs from Parts Express. I tried three other brands of IC, ranging up to several hundred dollars each, and not only didn't I hear an improvement, the sound seemed to clearly degrade. I did hear one improvement, however, but that was when I moved my source closer to the preamp and went from a 6 foot to a three foot Dayton IC. I guess I'm either extremely lucky or extremely deaf. Anyone tried these? At such a low cost it couldn't hurt you guys to test out a pair...
System:
Zero One Mercury CD/HD player
Supratek Chenin Preamp
Flying Mole monoblock amps
Zu Julian Speaker Cable
Zu Druid Loudspeakers
Zu mini-method Subwoofer
Home made Belden Power cords |
If the V2.2's are new, they will only get better as they burn in. Nice Cables. You should get the MIT IC's too. |
A recent study showed that when a $40 wine is compared to a $5 wine, the most important determinant of the taste is the price tag. Switch the price tags and people identify the wine with the higher price as better tasting. ALSO, the study found that as the price tags were moved, the brain actually showed heightened activity associated with pleasure that correlated with the price tag, not the actual wine being sampled. The article was titled "Want to improve the taste of wine? Raise the price." Study done at Cal Tech and reported by AP on 4/15/08. Most people are too far-gone to actually reason things out so this is for the few who actually hear no difference: don't be shamed or bullied into creating a difference and paying more. The percentage to be spent on cables There are several well-known amp makers who recommend NOT switching power cords. The president of my amp company told me not to use a power conditioner or switch cords. For some companies, its right in the owner's manual. Components use DC, not AC. And the DC is fed from a power supply, which acts as a storage tank, not from the wall. That makes the power cord situation especially incredible, but if people can actually cause themselves to feel pleasure when a price is increased on wine then there is no rational argument that will matter. The subjects were not lying; they truly enjoyed the higher price more even though the wine had not changed! If you can are emotionally able, do a/b/x testing and save money. I always do and I have found $3,000 speakers that easily beat $14,000 units. Of course, this is to MY tastes- that is a different issue altogether.
There are excellent cable article all over the Internet. I recommend reading as many of these as possible and then doing blind testing. There may be a difference, but you won't need to know prices to hear it. Of course, quality may make a difference but the percentage of your expenses dedicated to cables should be determoined by what you hear and enjoy. Be as honest with yourself as possible, after all it's your money. |
I have a $2500 integrated, a $4000 front end, and $9500 speakers. My power cords cost $1850 each, my interconnects $6495 and my speaker cables $12500! Without the cables, the system is ok....with the cables, it is close to some of the mega buck systems I've owned over the years. Maybe more musical in some respects, if being able to enjoy more recordings is the bar by which we measure. I've done the value cables and everything in between...some are worthless, others are sublime and worth every penny! MIT's approach deals with the real world problems inherent in all conventional cables and does so with an ear for musicality. Transparent does a fine job as well, but in a more obtrusive way...not compatible for many systems and in line filtration used instead of parallel technology. |
IMHO it is all system dependent. First is the components for your front end both vinyl and digital. Then the amplification.
You can spend lots or little. The thing to do is borrow the cables and try them in your system. Change only one cord at a time so that the changes will apply to one one component at a time.
The amount of money you spend is a matter of personal budget.
Did a shoot out of various power cords. All of the power cords were plugged into the Audience ar12, 20 amp version.
The power cords tested were Shunyata, Aural Symphonics, Nordost, Synergistics and Audience. See my posts on my System threads.
The testing was done over a three day period and all cables were burned in.
By changing PCs on the Audio Research CD7 I could get more resolution and better dynamics.
I had several friends over for the final day of testing. All were disbelievers of being able hear any differences between power cords.
As the evening progressed they all became firm believers that the last five feet can make a profound difference on the music.
In my system the Aural Symphonics worked best or had the best synergy. It was not the most expensive of the PCs demoed.
So go and try different cables and see what works for you.
That my two cents worth. |
Rugyboogie states the facts very well and without the abrasiveness if some other would be Shaman of things high end. |
Ok, cables do sound different to you, how come no one talks aout written proof and measurements? In my system expensive transparent cables were compared to off the shelves once. To me they sounded the same and measured the same. |
I think that around 10% is a reasonable target, give or take a few percent. Those that don't hear any difference should only spend 1%. If something blows you away and costs 20% then you'll need to seriously consider blowing your budget.
Ideally you'll be able to compare cables in your system before you buy.
IMHO, setting out to spend a certain percentage is a recipe for failure.
Dave |
Baam23f
You wrote that you could not hear the difference. I do not know your system or the cables that you were comparing. I have also never tried to measure cables, but you are more than welcome to listen at my place in order for you to be able to hear the differences that cables can make. For better or worse. It is all about system synergy.
If you are in the Pacific Northwest drop me an e-mail and stop by.
Cheers, |
thank you for the invitation, I would have liked it very much, but I am on the opposite side of the country. What can i say again? My system is pretty good overall (30k).. When it came down to cables I never heard any difference. Please note that I am not opening an argument here, I just wanted to post my opinion based on my own experience.
Best regards, |
Baam23f
Sorry to hear that you are so far away. We would have had lots of fun. If you every travel this way the offer stands, my doors are open.
Take care, |
Cable differences should be fairly easy to hear on a 30K system...unless you truly can't hear it, in which case you shouldn't be able to hear the difference between the 30K system and pair of JBL's and a reciever. Given that, I would cash in the system and get something cheaper. That said, you can have great cables for less than the mega buck stuff many of us have.....the not hearing ANY differences is a concern however. Maybe a hearing test would be a good investment. Or did you hear SOME differences but not enough to justify the price ?differences? |
a difference that makes no difference is no difference.
if you hear a difference between two components, but you are indifferent to replacing one component with the other, the perceived difference is inconsequential.
it may not be a question of price justifying the difference but rather, "the difference is insignificant".
my point is that for some, an insignificant difference is no difference. |
Baam23f
"Ok, cables do sound different to you, how come no one talks aout written proof and measurements? In my system expensive transparent cables were compared to off the shelves once. To me they sounded the same and measured the same."
Well, they could be identical, many audiocables do the same things wrong. But what did you meashure? Many audiophils belive in the holy frequenze-response, but without too much knowing what it really represents.
If you meashure a speakers on-axis response it only tells you the speakers total acoustic energy, not anything about the quality or dynamic contrast and so on. It might be flat, but that does not mean that it sounds good.
A waterfall will clear up a few things, but the biggest cable-differences will be seen in a pulse/step meashuring. |
Try Mundorf Silver/Gold ribbon cable. An absolute bargain DIY or ready made compared to what you have paid so far. I find it interesting that people who ain't slow in the head, maki'n all that bread to afford this high end audio will spend crazy money on COPPER? Being a jeweller[English spelling] I am aware of the way even minute amounts of Gold [1%]alloyed with silver can significantly alter the molecular properties of said metal. For $13,000 I should be able to make the cable out of pure gold. Advantage would be very flexible even as solid core, no oxidization, superb malleability means it would never break, will never lose its value, superb electrical properties. Disadvantage, VERY expensive! I use Supra Ply 3.4/S bi-amped with 4 runs of cable per channel and I am a very happy chappy. I am curious to make a very high end cable and would happily give the Mundorf a try 66-49Euros/M for top silver/gold foil or 1.5mm wire with ptfe and they don't like so many others add extra digits to the purity % of their cable. What they offer is as pure as it can get in the real world. |
If you want a really excellent cable for very little money then check out Frank's work at Signal Cable (and no I don't work for him, I'm just a loyal customer). My system is not in a league with yours (Naim Nait 2, Linn LP12, Kudos tuner, Mimik II cd player, B&W 805's and an ASW 800 sub), but it seems to me that spending thousands and thousands on wire is ridiculous, and the people at NANA think likewise. |
And to add insult to injury just when you think you've found a good combination of cables all away around a different cable, not necessarily more expensive by any means,in combination with other cables, again not necessarily more expensive, can give your system a sound you never thought possible from your system or any system in your particular listening space.I've recently had my jaw hit the foor, not from elecrecution, but from hearing what I heard when I put on two Tekline cables to my cdp and preamp, skinny little things, as well as a generic looking cable to my conditioner, replacing an expensive high end cable. Actually the three Tekline cables added to my system were of significant value and switching just three little thin cables way outdid the Synergidtic Absolute and Dream State high end expensive cables and now my system sounds like it never has before. I had given up on power cables thinking at $2500 cables and good sound I was done. With the swap of much lesser costly cables improved the sound dramatically and it was a no cost veture in fact I came out several thousands of dollars a head to use these awesome cables from Tekline. If you haven't heard about them yet you probably will. I ordered 4 of the bigger ones even thouigh they are not really necessary I'm curious. I'm pleased with my cable upgrades and even though a new cdp or preamp may have, you would think, a more dramatic improvement in sound I'm here to say in my system in the moods I've been in and maintaining a healthy diet have noticed that three power cables of relatively acceptable price points have done more in the wow factor than new cdp and preamp. The difference was/is a mind expanding experience as it shows what can be done with good imagination and workmanship.I'm extremely pleased with the sound of my system now. It's better than ever and the only thing I can blame it on is the three cables, less expensive, less well known than what I had on previously. But I mean I couldn't decribe the difference in English as it is my only language. These cables are still blowing my mind. This is not an ad for any particular componany but just a testament that the correct cables for your system, regardless of brand or hierchy in Audioland, make a dramatic improvement if one is lucky enough to find the right cables. This process for me has bveen a learning process working my way up to the point where I'm at and returning me funds in the thousands.I am pleased with my new sound and can't wait, for the sake of curiosity, what scotts big high end cables will sound like. |
DIY cable is good value. 10-15% spend on DIY cable is great value :) |
The correct answer depends on the following list of factors, and once you plug them into the formula you should be able to find out if you've spent too much (or too little) on your cables for the optimal sounding results.
I * D +(I/O) = T
T (%)- this is the answer, and it is very important that your budget is within +/- 0.5% (this formula works only in USD). For those rare cases where you've either spent too much or too little, please stay calm and do not panic (*refer to below for additional instructions).
I - This is a whole number which represents the number of cables used in your system.
D - Dimitri's factor. This is a critical number which is based on the extensive market research (performed by the IGOR Geneva Consortium for Profit) that takes into account exchange rate volatility (among other things that cannot be shared due to international trade secret -- patent pending) of countries where the components were manufactured. Take the price that you have paid and multiply by corresponding manufacturer number: UK = 1.0, China = 2.7, Germany = 0.7, USA = 4.0, Japan = 0.6, Others = 0.74
O - Oscillation value. If you believe that cables make a meaningful difference in your system's performance, use 1. If not, use 0 for this value. And, multiply that by percentage of the components that you purchased used (including demos). For those who only buy used equipments, divide by 0.2 if you think you usually get the best prices on your components. If not, use 0.5
I realize that I should have responded to this thread (and saved everyone their precious time to listen to music). Still, it is never too late.
*If you are either above or below the correct T%, please trade your items on Audiogon and comfirm the optimal system configuration by using the formula again.
Stik |
The answer is the value of any component is only perceptible by the system owner.
That given, I can truthfully say, on my system, no 10k speaker cable was worth looking at. The cabling I have is is worth .01 the worth of my system.
MIT, Cardas, Jena, and Kimber among others failed miserably.
Obviously, I am a lucky audiophile to spend so little on wires, for a sound I love. |
Imo, audiophile-grade equipment and decent source material need good cables to preserve the signal quality by adding as little distortion as possible. Unfortunately this doesn't usually doesn't come cheap, even with used cables. I find it hard to believe that anybody would claim they can't hear the difference between RadioShack wire and a decent set of cables, unless they've blown their ear drums and/or mind out... |
I'll say this again, one of the best finds in cabling is the Monster Z200i IC. The shame is they are discontinueing it. It allows a huge soundstage with extremely pure and grain free highs, open warm and detailed mids with killer fast bass. I am currently trying to best it with A/B listening off of my CDP which has XLR and RCA outs with the same line level signal output. |
After extensive listening with the Monster Z200i vs MIT's Magnum M1 Proline IC's the winner is the Z200i RCA's! Also trying to gain an improvement over my Monster M2.2s speaker cables by auditioning SRTesla Accelerator, Purist Aqueas Anniversary and Analysis plus Big Siver Oval's. Also tried Magnum M1 speaker cables but they failed horribly. So far the SR's have not bettered the monster's and it looks bleak for the others as well. |
Dave_b, the accelerators are ok but SR's Apex are 100 times better. I'm curious to see what you would think of an all SR top-O-line cables with a Powercell and a Teslaplex outlet. ;-) |
Maybe I'll try it from Robert at the Cable Co...but I really can hardly believe the synergy I have achieved for so little! |
My hat is off to many of the writers in this thread: so informative from 2001 forward! I'm a total newbie and just bought a 100$ monster cable for my new tv but have no idea what cable is best for my new cambridge audio amp. Is there a recommended budget cables list somewhere online, like at an audio mag, that someone could link to? |
