This is a wide open set questions with multiple correct answers. Almost all of which depend on you. You’ll likely get responses from many different perspectives, and it’s very likely no one will be able to give advice that’s 100% correct and definitive for your needs. The fact that you’re asking tells me your already an above average consumer.
Before you dive too far in, questions to ask yourself, are what kind of a listener are you? Mostly casual with background music keeping you company, or are you likely to listen attentively, work on proper setup, and work to optimize the system to get a musical experience? Do you prefer loud rock or soft jazz, or maybe a mix? Do you have any musical background? (not a requirement, but some folks are simply musically tone deaf and there’s less reason to get too carried away with the equipment. On the other hand serious musicians often take their sound system seriously too). Somer folks are extremely interested in improving, changing, and enhancing their systems through numerous tweaks, mods, and upgrades....some just want to plug and play...which are you? (because you build stuff with wood, that might be a hint). Also, audio buffs tend to be a combination of music lover and technical geeks....most of us are a little of both, but it’s good to figure out where your passion is, and buy equipment that’s best suited for your preferences.
Your listening room plays a large part in the end result of your system, and there’s a science/art to dealing with the room. That’s a whole different set of information to learn.
With that said, even though it will likely occur in a different room from yours, I happen to think it’s excellent idea to hear as many good systems as you can, and start to identify the types of sounds you like and don’t like. There’s no single correct way to build a system, but it’s critical that it pleases you. Hearing is a sense. Listening is a skill, and it can be developed. I suggest listening to all kinds of price levels, even stuff beyond budget if it helps identify what you like. Price isn’t always indicative of sound quality, but there is some correlation, With experience, you may gain the ability to replicate more expensive sound by spending less, but spending wisely. Used gear can result in big savings if the right deal comes along. DIY and kits can also result in getting more for the money.
There are always exceptions and differing opinions in audio....it’s very subjective, so what YOU like is key. There can be significant or subtle differences between audio gear...it depends on the gear, the setup, source material being played, and who’s listening, but many feel that speakers tend to offer the biggest differences in the overall sound. It’s a good idea to pick speakers that you love the sound of, and that will work well in your room. Larger speakers tend to put out more deep bass....that’s great if it’s what you like, and if they don’t excite resonances in your room. Sometimes smaller speakers with less bass output are a bit easier to place and get to perform well in certain rooms because there’s simply less bass output to stimulate the room in the first place....subwoofers can always be added to augment bass if necessary. Speaker sensitivity and impedance are considerations for the amp you’ll need to drive them, so it’s worth learning a bit about.
You’ll also want to identify what your main music sources will be....records, CDs, radio, reel to reel, digital? Each has different equipment needs for sure. Some love vinyl, others find it a nuisance. At some point tubes vs solid state may come up....there are pros and cons with every choice. Specs can be both useful and useless...it’s good to know and understand what they mean, but most gear is made to measure well, and ultimately tells you very little about how something actually sounds (not so different than wwing specs like rpm and runout). Trust your ears, and don’t make hobby out of reading specs. Gather as much info as you can, and buy what you love. It’s a journey...sometimes a long one, so be sure to enjoy it.
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Am I overthinking this? Absolutely not!!! You’re asking very rational and intelligent questions. Having been a 2-channel audiophile for about 40 years (ugh) and looking back, I would’ve made HUGE (and very costly) mistakes if I just jumped in and threw big bucks down on what I thought I liked at that point. Look at it like wine — would you start with a $10k bottle or start lower and let your tastes/knowledge base grow and evolve before going big? The good news is you can get some really excellent gear and build an extremely satisfying and rewarding system for not all that much these days, and even more so if you’re willing to buy used gear. First, and MOST importantly, you need to go and listen to various systems to start to identify what sound characteristics are most important to YOU personally (using your own music as well as some well-recorded demo material) and then you’ll be in a much better position to take a good first stab at putting together a system that’ll really make you happy. Then, as you listen to it for a while and hear more gear at shows or wherever, start to identify what improvements you’d like and upgrade one piece at a time until you’re completely happy (good luck with that part). Oh yeah, and READ as much as you can to learn more about both the technical aspects of audio and other products out there so you’re in a better position to make good choices later. As a VERY basic guideline, starting with a $10k budget you could buy $3k speakers, $4k integrated amp, $2k source, and $1k for cables/misc and you could have a REALLY nice near-full-range starting system. Unless you feel highly confident in your ability to choose gear at that point I’d hesitate to spend much more than that (remember the wine example). Anyway, looking back and if I was to start over even with a big budget this is what I’d do FWIW. Hope this helps a bit, and WELCOME the the wonderful, awful world of higher-end audio! |
If you have the means to pay full retail, then visit as many dealers as you can, to find one that is reputable and that you trust. Then make decisions based on what you hear from there.
There’s only one acceptable system here on Audiogon...something, something, swarm, springs, and fuses. Repeat until death.
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My question are here:
If one has the means to jump into higher end gear, should they or should they start budget and work their way up?
If one does jump into higher end gear, would a newbie appreciate it versus those that work their way up?
Am I overthinking this? Not at all. I think you will find it difficult if not impossible to master anything without a lot of deep thinking. When you have done that and mastered this to the extent that I have the hardest part of knowing what advice to give is knowing what the other person wants. Therefore I say the First Rule of Audio Club is Know Thyself. This is what it pays to think about: What exactly do you want? The better you understand your own desires and goals the easier it comes and the more likely you are to succeed. Otherwise it is real easy to get swept along in what everyone else wants. Look around. Click on their names. Look at their systems. Read what listeners say. Is that what you want? Serious question. The way I see it there are two main paths a guy can take: One and Done, and Work in Progress. To do One and Done you take whatever you feel like spending and budget it out into all the things you need- speakers, amp, source, wire, accessories. KISS- equal amounts for each. The budget is really just a way of forcing you to recognize every component plays a part in the whole, and keeps you from blowing your wad on sexy speakers and amps leaving you screwed with lamp cord and freebie rubber power cords. Work in Progress can start out like that. But with this one slow and steady wins the race. With WiP it is okay to spend half your budget or more on speakers. Or turntable. Whatever. You can do this when you find something you really love and know you will continue to enjoy for many years- during which time your whole system grows up around it. Until one day years from now that piece that was once your shining star is now just barely holding its own. By now you have had it five, ten, fifteen years and your whole system is now comprised of similar shining stars. This is exactly what I have been doing, going on some 50 years now. Your job right now is to figure out which one you are, how much patience do you have, and perseverance. Because once you figure this out the rest pretty much falls into place. |
Good Question OP.
What room will it reside in and for how long? That matters. If you are in a home and your listening room will not be changing for the next 15 years, then your build will not need to be flexible. For instance if you are in a 12x16 space La Scala may not be the right choice. Silly example, but the size and space you are working with will matter. I’m a builder by profession and yes, buying the right tool first has always been a good idea. Same w/Audio. Save and buy quality. Buy Demo when you can. Determine if you like Tubes, SS or both. Determine if you like Conventional vs Planar or Dipole Speakers. Take your time, wait and save, buy slightly above your affordability level and most important of all, hide this information from the wife.
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good questions indeed, as per @soix
question is what budget level for a system (and don’t forget the quality of the room/listening environment)
under a grand for a system is quite challenging (despite what talking heads on youtube say)
2-3 towards 5 grand starts opening door to a very nice sounding system, if using a single source
10 grand and up accesses some excellence, so long as the room is not too large
i am talking smart buys of used gear here |
I think your thinking about it the right way.
8 years ago I separated my home theatre from my listening room and over the past 2 years I've effectively replaced my system.
If you live near a big city with a reputable dealer I'd suggest you sit and listen to a bunch of stuff with them to have you understand a bit of the options. Then listen to any system you can - even from the dealers with less than stellar reputations to gain some perspective. (Even a bad perspective can be enlightening).
One of the best things I did during my upgrade path was talk with my dealer and let him know my path because I was able to get several used items demo and a customer who tried something different and didn't like it. It was a win/win because the dealer got to happy customers. |
I've found over many years, if you don't do, you don't learn. It took me fifty years to get the system I have now. If you don't have deep pockets (such as myself) it's a bit harder to finally end up with a system you really love. It can be done, though.
Having the right room is just as important as having good equipment. When you have both, you can be in heaven.
It helps if you have knowledgeable friends to help you access good equipment and listening enviroments. Take your time, and enjoy the process, it's a long road.
Best of luck, and regards,
Dan |
Excellent responses on this thread. Keep in mind you can spend a lot of money on a piece of stereo equipment and not really care for its sound. You can also be floored by something that has no right sounding as good as it does for so little. Generally yes, money is going to buy you better quality but not necessarily the sound you like. A lot of us on here love music and love the gear. We just like trying different stuff to see what floats our boats. Islandmandan sort of nailed it for me. Good luck to you and I hope you enjoy the process. Best advice, don’t get as neurotic about this as a lot of us loons. |
Are you the kind of person that constantly second guesses yourself? Have you already “been there, done that” enough so you can categorically state preferences without doubt? Do you have a budget in mind or a performance goal? Are you in a hurry?
if you’re starting from scratch it might be worthwhile to buy budget used gear of different types to compare, especially speakers, so you have firsthand experience rather than just blindly following a bunch of yahoos on the internet. This will clue you into your personal preferences and help with setup. Don’t skimp on room treatments though. Budget those for where you want to end up. Every system can benefit from a better room. (I’ve often thought that at some budget level designing and building a dedicated room is more economical than fighting a poor one.)
Once you think you’ve done your research start introducing endgame components into your starter system. It’s probably best to start with speakers and work backwards: amp, pre (if needed), DAC, phono stage, sources. Get appropriate cables as needed. Don’t be afraid to change your mind along the way if priorities change. You may end up with more than one system or a bunch of great gear that you mix and match based on whim or mood. You may find as much entertainment from adjusting your system as you do from listening.
Alternately, ask for recommendations for a great local shop. Tell them your budget. Audition equipment. Trust their expertise. And be done with it. |
Buy whatever sounds good to you. Can you do that? Or do you want an assortment of characters to plan for you and set a budget? |
The hard part is the choices. SO MANY choices, from the very common brands to the esoteric. And this is in generally all price points. That is both good and bad in this game, good because with careful selection you can get exactly what you want. Bad because there are lots of toys to potentially play with. Read reviews, demo if you can, look at other members input to the items you want to try. Once you establish a budget hone in on the characteristics of cabling, sources, and output that appeal to you and your senses. We all hear differently to a degree, room plays a huge part in that. One guy’s perfect, amazing system is another guy’s fatiguing nightmare. If you stick to the basic, well known gear at first you will probably build a good-great system right out of the box. Just know once you step in, it’s hard to step out!
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I had to learn what I didn't like before I could discover what I did like. I suppose the don't like is possible to bypass, but with so many choices, variables and advice you'll eventually end up with a system all your own. Highly doubtful anyone else on earth has the exact same system. In other words, you're going to have to do a lot of work separating the wheat from chaff. Still, lots of good advice given up to now.
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agree w many of the sentiments expressed
as in most areas of passion/ significant hobbies, the journey is as important (if not moreso) as the ’end point’/current state of affairs
i always think about a parallel in the world of enjoying food... we are fortunate when able to experience variety, learn and try new things, experience new flavors, preparations... our horizons are broadened, our senses are stimulated and sharpened when we allow ourselves to experience what others have found to their liking |
Many excellent and useful responses. I bought my first system in the mid 70's so I have been doing this for a few years. I have changed speakers five times since then. Analog source has changed twice and digital 6 times. My electronics (amp and pre amp) once from my first set up and multiple times with Herron Audio.
Just my two cents is to nail down the speakers first. This takes a lot of time and critical listening. You need to determine the flavor of the sound you enjoy as previously expressed. I would then focus on the source and electronics next. It can be one and done but you can probably guess that it usually doesn't happen this way depending on how long you plan on keeping the system.
If you are fortunate to have a good dealer network near you, this is the best way find the perfect match for you. If not, it will involve travel. Shows are a good source to get an idea of what you may like but I would never make a purchase based on a show. Good luck! |
Just like any other hobby, the amount of self education about what's available, how it works and what it costs is essential with the added caveat here of what does it sound like?
If you have friends close by with good systems you can learn more much faster as you hear them. Systems in retail stores and at audio shows aren't usually an accurate guide to what that same gear will sound like at your house in your room but can give you a rough idea of price and direction.
Trust your ears. Read equipment reviews but realize they usually aren't as objective as you might think they are.
Finally, enjoy the journey. Music is the best. |
