The more technology there is, the more some people will take advantage of it to rip other's off.
I understand some buyers wanting to use paypal. That is because paypal protects the buyer only. period.
There are risks on both sides when sell equipment. The risk is minimized if the buyer comes and physically picks up the equipment. That way, the seller can connect the equipment and the buyer can actually hear it work, then pay, take it away and all is good.
I accept cash and many times the buyer has come over my home to listen to their music being played through the equipment. We talk about equipment and music and everyone is happy.
I also accept person checks (from a recognized bank) or a bank certified cashiers check. Could the check be bad? absolutely. so the risk is mine. However, I don't ship until my bank tells me the check cleared. Can the check still be fake? yes? That is a risk I'm taking.
But since I don't like paypal, I don't advertise my equipment with paypal as an option. If the buyer wants to use paypal, then I tell them that they must be responsible for the paypal fee. period.
They are the one that wanted to use it so they should pay the fee. They can receive the working item. Short out the output, fry the amp and tell paypal that the unit wasn't working when they received it. Paypal will give them their money back and I'm out a working amp. Or, they simply don't like the unit in their system and tell paypal it wasn't received as advertised and the same thing happens.
I am not a store. no lookee loos here. no return policy, unless it was my fault. Everything I sell works as advertised. I make certain of that.
I will buy or sell from a person with no prior feed back. I will be more careful when buying with large sums. Speaking over the phone helps. But, for something really expensive? I would probably fly or drive there, hear it work, take possession and pay, and arrange for shipping. That's if their is no or little feedback.
it can be nerve racking and a very real risk.
Feedback helps. Phone conversations also help. Asking the right questions helps. Also, evidence that the seller actually owns the unit really helps.
And sorry, but lowballers do insult people. There are lots of "flippers" out there. They flip houses, cars, etc. They want something for nothing and then turn around and sell it for as much as they can.
I don't like flippers like that. they take advantage of people's ignorance or pain (divorce, death in the family, etc.)
I list my equipment (when I sell) for about the average selling price or slightly lower. People that come to me for ridiculously low offers (well that is a slap in my face). They know perfectly well what the equipment is "worth". but they want to make a profit because when they flip it, the new buyer isn't going to pay more than blue book. So they have to buy it for less than blue book. However, that is not and should not be my problem.
Yes, I can ignore lowballlers. I often do. It still is an insult. A person coming in slightly lower than my list price, I can work with. A lowballer/flipper is a person that just throws something against the wall to see what will stick.
move on.
However, every sell or buyer had to start with zero feed back. If I wanted $15,000 speakers and a seller on Audiogon listed a pair for sale, but had no feed back. Well, hmmm. What is that person's story? could be a death in the family and they have to sell the person's stuff. or a divorce and they have to sell to split the assets. anything.
Phone time!!!!
drive and pick it up. or fly there if close enough, or have a friend go by to do the transaction. Done that before.
So many dealers on Audiogon now. Not like 10 years or so when it was a hobby driven site.
My view good feedback protects the seller, buyers and how many years with the site. I known folks ripped off and with no help from the site. No feedback and just joined may not be a bad thing but I feel better dealing with a long term member with outstanding feedback from most of their customers. Sell and Buy with caution, the day of this being a hobby site is long gone.
Although it seems, considering PayPal’s hold pay policies and a number of shysters out there abusing those policies to cheat legit. sellers, that being a seller on A-Gon or EBay can be a little risky. Still I have to agree with jssmith - some of the attitudes that I’ve recently seen from some of the E-Bay, A-Gon and even Craig’s List sellers makes me wonder if they could sell a pair of socks, much less a $5K piece of audio gear. Just one example -I recently saw an A-Gon sellers add that said, at the end of the description: "If you don’t have a high number of +feed-backs, Don’t Bother". WOW, Really? There are a number of ways to make a good sale - that’s not one of them....Jim
When a seller states "lightly scratched and dented from normal use..." Normal use? What are you using to turn on your gear, a railroad spike? And I can confidently state that through all the years of my speakers having songs played through them, not a single song has ever come flying out and dented one of them. I also note that there is an inordinate amount of clumsy cleaning ladies out there....
Not necessarily their listings, but their attitudes.
I have a long memory and will never deal with a seller who displays a poor attitude.
In one case, on $1,000 purchase there was an issue with PayPal going through. It wasn't a money issue. It was just giving an error. I informed the dealer that I was having problems accessing his account. And immediately he started with the attitude. Later that day the transaction went through. I still don't know what the problem was. Needless to say I'll never buy from that dealer again. Actually, one of his items hit my radar again and as soon as I saw the name I decided to move on.
Another case are people who have an issue with what "they" consider low-balling. I've never understood this idea of feeling insulted. I bid a fair price on amps. The seller ignored me. I would have come closer to his asking price if he countered, but he didn't. A month later he sold the amps for $100 less than my bid. It never hurts to counter. You never know what's on the seller's mind. Getting insulted is just dumb. It's simply about money. It's not personal. People who ignore my bids also go on my no-deal list.
The yr 1975 6N23P Saratov Reflector Grey Shield Single Wire Getter Post tubes are considered by many to be amongst the best sounding 6DJ8/6922 tubes in the world. I understand this is an opinion, but it is shared by many. An extensive study in 2013 by RB on the Lyr thread found these little known tubes. He compared the various years and factories and features, and introduced them to others in the U.S. They are Russian Tubes. You buy them from Russia. Rarely seen U.S. tube sellers, many of whom I buy from, sell these particular tubes of this exact specification. When one comes up for sale by a U.S. seller, they have purchased it previously from Russia. Some sell similar tubes from a sister plant, so called Rockets from the Voshkod factory, however the general opinion is they do not rise to the SQ of this particular Reflector. The primary if not only place to purchase them is from Russian Tube sellers (or near Russia) on e-bay. Have found several that are reliable, knowledgeable, and honest; it was a somewhat painful process to zero in on the good ones. I wanted these particular tubes, and there is but one apparent path to obtain them. Am glad I pursued it as I now have a lifetime inventory for my use. I’ve been buying tubes since I was 15, I’m 65. Speaking for myself, I’ve confirmed they are the best sounding on my equipment for a 6922 compatible tube. This includes vs some high end Telefunkens. Generally I feel your comment is very accurate, acknowledged and usually something I follow myself. However, in this instance the market path to purchase this particular tube is rather narrow if the goal is this exact tube. Now have a supply that test well. I don’t feel beat, more like satisfied the objective was achieved and arrived at the desired end result. But there were learnings: with the PO expressing interest in buyers experiences, I wanted to share my learnings for those who may also be pursuing these.
Perhaps they should clean the dust off the equipment they are selling. When I see that even if I am interested, I’ll pass. If they can’t even to be bothered to keep it clean, chances are they just don’t care.
Have purchased about 150 Tubes for my pre-amp on e-bay in the last 6-8 months. Most from European/Russian e-bay sellers. About 30% have had issues from not testing as described, being rather noisy or microphones, to flat out fraudulent listings. Seeking the Russian 6N23P Saratov ‘75 Silver Shield SWGP has been interesting. I have built up a lifetime supply as these are viewed as the excellent sounding 6DJ8/6922 tubes based on an extensive study. I want to get them in hand as the price keeps rising Here are my learnings: 1) Don’t trust the narrative in the listing, you must train yourself and your eye to recognize the item being sold is in fact what is listed and what you are seeking. Trust only your eye. If photo’s are insufficient, ask the seller to send your better ones. If they don’t, move along. Its a reasonable request especially when the tubes approach 100 a pair or more. I’ve been burned badly by listing narratives that were exactly in detail what I was looking for, only to have the seller send me something else. If the photo’s don’t confirm things like dates, plant of mfg, features that are key to the type of tube you want like getter design, shield color, don’t risk it. A good seller provides accurate, sharp, detailed pictures from several angles to allow you to confirm with your eye. Make sure to confirm the pics are what you are actually buying. 2) If the narrative and photo’s don’t include actual test results, but the lister indicates “tested 100%”, don’t accept that. Ask for specific test results for the tubes you are buying, if not provided, move along. 3) Check their history, not just their ratings, look at the archives of their actual sales. Look to see if they are repeating the exact same pictures and data for tubes. If yes, they are likely into repeat use of a stock photo they took and it is not the tubes you are buying, as no two tubes test exactly the same (rarely). 4) If they are selling tubes that have most of the printing gone, be sure you have a trained eye or move on, 5) If you find a good seller, confirmed by getting tubes that test true to the listing (I have my own tester) and it was a fair, solid transaction and well packaged, then stick with em for what other tubes you are looking for. Tell them to seek the tubes you want and be patient, these sellers are worth it. 6) Just a comment: most sellers don’t understand that selecting no-returns on e-bay DOES NOT mean no refunds. E-bay does not take kindly to inaccurate listings or fraud, and will get behind a buyer for a guarantee refund if you do a good job of documenting it with photographs including package damage. The ONLY problem is it is difficult to return tubes to block countries and I found even Germany because customs officials in those countries don’t believe or trust what you write on the customs forms in terms of value, and often hold up the package from the seller until they come in to prove it is a return. I find the best way is to insist that the return be handled through e-bay’s process so that an e-bay return label gets affixed the to package. Otherwise you will risk snagging the package up and if it does the sellers often won’t go get it and then you have to confine e-bay the package is snagged up before they will continue the refund process. Also,if a problem surfaces the best records of what occured for e-bay refunds are often in the e-bay messages you and the seller are trading, including photo’s that you send them of the problems. I-bay looks at these when you file a claim. It makes it easier. In the end, expect that some of the time you will not get your refund or bad seller goes off line or was kicked off e-bay (experienced that twice). These Russian tubes are hard to find at a fair price, its part of the hazard of buying from e-bay overseas. Depends how bad you want them, be prepared for a % of failures and hassle to get your $ back on these.
They should retain both views and not hinder their customers ability to sell by obscuring the thumbnail. That is very low end not high. All the competition even Craigslist shows thumbnail photos with no tampering. Makes the whole site look really bad.
Still a valid point Mapman. Casual visitors who do not know the "quick fix" are likely to be put off browsing very rapidly. Audiogon REALLY should make the classic view the default not the absurd grid/peeping tom view! Wonder how much revenue Audiogon have lost since inception? Lost commission on sales not happening and lost listing fees as more sellers leg it to audiomart and eBay etc. Food for thought
Where else can you find items selling for 5 or 6 digit prices that have most of the item's photo obscured by a useless fuzzed up frame. Just plain crazy.
A good thorough description of the item for sale in both words and photos. In terms of photos you have to post a pic of the back of whatever you are selling. If you're selling speakers don't only take pictures with the grills on we need to see the drivers. If you're posting tubed gear list what tubes it takes don't make me have to google it. Pretty basic stuff to me but often ignored.
I just sold a pair of headphones here in less than 8 hours. Most of my other sales have happened within 2 days. I price the items right and am willing to further negotiate. I never charge any fees and am very generous on the shipping. I never respond to the tire kickers. You know the guy who offers you 900 bucks on the asking price of 2K.
Celander. Agreed on first 2 points but not the last. Ship a pair of large speakers coast to coast, probably200 to 300 dollars. You want seller to eat that? No way Jose. Now maybe compromise but you just cannot offer free shipping ad nauseam. Sure maybe on smaller items like cables, CD etc but not not heavy items.
And trust me eBay does not operate like that in the realm of audio, 20 years on eBay and hifi sales have not changed much in principle. I would wager over half the items have shipping charges not free shipping. And the ones I see with free shipping have usually added some to the base price to help compensate. There is no free ride....
It’s about 3 things: 1. Asking price being at FMV. 2. Paypal fees being included in the price and not an added fee. 3. Shipping being included in the price and not an added fee.
This is how Ebay successful transactions are modeled. Learn the lesson.
I look for the lowest priced similar items either on sale or sold and make sure I price a few dollars less AND accept offers on listing. Quote a fair shipping price even if you may lose a few dollars if you end up shipping coast to coast, it usually evens out over the years. Do NOT ask buyer to pay ANY fees of any kind, this will assuredly put them off and have them looking at other ads. Make sure some halfway decent pictures if possible. Above all be courteous in all communications even if you privately are thinking what a jerk! You never know , that "jerk" might be a rich one....lol.
That's the problem. Sellers have been burned by the A-Gon shipping calculator so they sometimes want to visit the shipping store first before quoting shipping price.
Just another example of an inefficiency in this marketplace. Supply and demand Econ 101 assumes that markets are efficient, buyers and sellers behave rationally, and that the products are near commodities....as we all know, none of these conditions are true and that prevents transactions from happening and ultimately depresses prices.
A fair amount of sellers also won’t provide a shipping cost until you commit to buy as they want to make sure that they pass on actual cost to consumer. However, this creates friction as the buyer wants to know what they are paying before they commit.
This has never been a problem for me as a seller. The potential buyer asks me to calculate the shipping cost to his location. This way the price is fair to both parties. The Audiogon shipping calculator is not even close to reality.
Once we know the actual cost, it can be used as bargaining chip or passed on to the buyer if it’s a reasonable price. And I never charge the PayPal fee to the buyer.
I believe you need to be "realistic" about how valuable your used equipment is, some of the listings I see that seem to hang out there for days are not IMO properly priced. I also find that when I list an item and include UPS Ground (lower 48) and the PayPal fee, I don't seem to have problems selling items on Audiogon.
In my case I wanted a new integrated amp, I just bought one less than 1 year old for about 60% of it's cost new. To me that was good deal for the seller ?
For example when car sales are slow the auto industry offers rebates, zero interest financing, free maintence for 3 years etc.. I am affraid in used audio equipment about the only thing you can do is keep dropping prices or hold on until a shift in the market, which might not ever happen. Maybe when it gets closer to the holidays things will pick up but I don't know of any marketing strategy for used amplifiers and dacs other than low prices.
There are so many things besides price that turn off potential buyers or cause them to bid lower as a hedge. A very good seller with a very smart listing will get more money from the same listing than a seller who is putting out signals that erode trust.
I think it's simply basic economics, supply and demand where the demand isn't there at the moment and the main thing that drives demand in most markets is either a shortage of supply or a reduction in prices. In other words there isn't enough of a product people actually want , supply, or there is to much so you have to reduce the price to increase demand.
A fair amount of sellers also won't provide a shipping cost until you commit to buy as they want to make sure that they pass on actual cost to consumer. However, this creates friction as the buyer wants to know what they are paying before they commit.
Agree that charging 3% on Paypal transaction erodes trust. When I see that I also worry that they will nickel and dime the packing material, boxing, etc.
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