Bricasti M1 DAC vs PS Audio Direct Stream DAC

Fsmithjack,

Have you heard the Berkeley Reference DAC?

I have heard Berkeley DACs a bunch of times but not their new Reference DAC but I bet it sounds amazing. Pretty expensive though I think...

My Bricasti M1 has shipped and I will have it on Wednesday. I look forward to providing feedback

Fsmithjack,

Be patient and watch the after market.

I'll receive my M1 today. What is the recommended filter setting and/or what filter have you found that works best?

For PCM files Minimum Phase filter 0 is usually best, but some users also like MP filter 2. For DSD files it's a bit more complicated. DSD filter 0 is actually unfiltered, so ultrasonic noise from the DSD process is passed through unattenuated. DSD filters 1 and 2 provide different levels of noise filtering, so you really should try each in your system to determine the preferred setting. Enjoy your new M1 DAC!

I have it connected and my initial thoughts are I know I don't need a preamp. I don't know how much break-in will change the sound, but I'm :)!

I recall that you had some concerns about making the change without being able to audition the M1 first in your system, and I'm now pleased to hear that your initial impressions are so favorable. It will only get better with break-in! You can continue to run the DAC locked onto a digital signal even with your amp turned off to help accelerate the break-in process. Just enjoy the tunes, it's a great DAC.

Hey Steve from Empirical Audio. I saw in your awesome room you had Clayton Audio M300 monoblocks at the Newport show last year. Great system and I am thinking about moving from CJ Premier 12 mono block tubes to those monster class a amps. Wanted to know what you thought about them and if a tube guys like me would like them and if you think they would sound nice direct from my Bricasti. Most people think and myself included that the Bricasti is great direct and wanted your professional opinion. Thanks

After one day of listening I submit the positives with the M1 compared to the DSD is the bass, dynamics, and not as forward sounding. What I'm disappointed about is the soundstage...in comparison to the DSD's soundstage, the M1's soundstage isn't as wide or dimensional and I hope the M1 improves. Even if it does improve, I don't think there's going to be a night and day difference, but I could be wrong. I hope additional playing convinces me it was worth the trade.

Interesting, Ricred1 what is your source?

I get an absolutely huge soundstage with my M1. Perhaps it is more breakin or my High Fidelity cables?

Coli,
I use a Bryston BDP-2 connected via WireWorld Gold Starlight 7.

Rdoc,

I've only listened for 2 hours or so; therefore I agree it should open up.

It needs a lot more time to break in. I think min a buck and a half or couple hundred. Run its 24/7 for a week. Turn amps of but run everything else and keep the music flowing so when you turn on amps music starts playing without doing anything else but flipping the power switch on the amps. Then at the end of the 24/7 week turn it off and unplug it and let it sit and cool overnight. Then turn it on before work in the am and listen when you get home and it will be quite different then now. Also, after the week and a few hours listening go ahead and think about a little tweak to your speakers location/toe in/out just a tad as its a different source and it won't need much but a little tweaking will go a long way... My soundstage image is pure wall to wall with crazy separation in there but it needed the break in to get there for sure... Break in is not a little extra with these but rather a pure necessity that annoying it may be is great once gets there and it opens up. The time is worth it and I wouldn't think of or worry about anything else until this happens...

Day 2...the M1 is very, very different from the DSD. I submit it's analogous with hearing live music at a big venue compared to hearing music in a small intimate setting. Instruments/music through the M1 is significantly more natural sounding(intimate). Music through the DSD comes at you, while music through the M1 pulls you in. I'm more than satisfied with the change and look forward to listening to more music without thinking about equipment.

When the DS DAC came along I just looked at all the reviews in general and barely any of them declared the DS to be a game changer, or the best DAC they has ever heard. They only declared it to be 'good' which in the audio review industry means 'not very good'.

This is probably why PS Audio are spending so much time on software updates, trying to extract decent performance out of it.

The Bricasti M1 is the opposite, it seems to have consistent raves.

Agisthos, With a statement like that I would almost be certain you have never listened to a DS with PP OS.

I have owned Wadia,Electrocompaniet and EAD digital playback and listened to countless others,the PSA DS was and is way above any of them in sound quality. Although I have not heard the Bricasti M1...I'm sure it is a great sounding dac. If you get a chance go give a DS a in depth listen,I think you will be pleasantly surprised...

Agisthos,

I purchased the DS after receiving generous credit for my PS Audio Perfectwave DAC II and thought it was a worthy upgrade. I want to be careful not to exaggerate the differences between the DSD and M1, but I think it's valuable to the audio community to discuss/compare different products. Of course it's in the context of my system, my room, and my preferences/biases. For years I've owned Wilson Audio speakers(Sophia 2s, 3s, and Sasha 1s) and like with the DSD the music came at you. I've listened to Rockport Aviors and currently have Aerial 7ts. I submit Aerials and Rockport speakers pulls you into the music and that's what the M1 does. That being said, just like some still prefer Wilsons to others, some may still prefer the DSD to the M1. I strongly prefer the sound of the M1.

Ricred1,

I loved my DSD and am on record as describing it as a great DAC not just a very good one. I think it is the very best in its price range and better than many more expensive ones. I really enjoyed my DSD and think very highly of it. That said your M1 doesn't have many hours on it only being in day 2 which is very very early in the game.

It will still improve from 150 hours to 200 hours. I personally think its true mono construction and triple linear power supplies needs more time than most to truly ripen. Its industrial build is just that, heavy duty commercial like and this needs more time to loosen and open up than the more consumer focused products made in much higher volume levels.

Brian makes them by hand himself one at a time and it takes him almost a week to hand build it. He doesn't stock them up like a buffet under a heat lamps but makes them fresh to order one at a time. You can still smell the sold aluminum block that was just freshly milled a few days before you received it. Its done onsite in his own in-house CNC milling laths. He owns three of them! Heck Jeff Rolland even out sources his stuff but not Brian. For the different filters to truly become effective these needs a lot of good old burn in.

I think it is still sounding better even at over 200 hours. I think a bit later on you won't be as concerned with being " careful not to exaggerate the differences between the DSD and M1" but rather your emphasis will switch to being careful on how you honestly depict the differences without sounding like your needlessly bad mouthing the DSD. Its hard to describe how much better one is without it being at the other expense but the M1 is so much more money and its a more higher focused unit that it should be better. They are totally different price points. IMO it's going to offer you a lot more than just pulling you into the music but that's the fun part of letting it evolve in front of your ears. Once all burned in nice and good it's going to knock your socks off!! Enjoy my friend I am glad you like it : )

Fsmithjack,

For my ears the Berkeley Reference DAC is the DAC to beat at this point in time.

I haven't heard the Berkeley Reference DAC yet and I'm sure that it is superb. However it should be noted that it is in another yet significantly higher price category at $16,000, and nearly $18,000 with USB.

Sabai when going there I would pass em all up and go demo/lightly used Trinity DAC. For an ultra uber DAC like that I would need to sell my Vet which i'm not willing to do :). I love audio but only so much! There is a regular life to live as well...

I've always thought my source was my weak link in my system. Inserting the Bricasti M1 has changed that and now it's probably my speakers or even my new Jeff Rowland M525...the M1 is that good. I would be a fool to consider changing the M1 to any DAC prior to upgrading my speakers or amp. I played music all night and I'm just smiling. My 10 year old said that he likes the way it sounds! Sure there has to be better, but the M1 makes me say WOW! I'm 100% done for now!

Fsmithjack,

I've already sent you a PM, but I wanted to thank you again. Your comments, which because of the way audiophiles react to negative comments about products that most are praising(I'm guilty) deserve credit. I really appreciate your postings regarding the M1. Thanks again!

Sabai

The M1 is so good i'm looking to really get all I can out of it. I feel in my system there is so much more there and I am looking to go after it. I am fixing to upgrade its supporting cast in my system to leverage its strengths.

That is always one of the problems we can run into when we significantly upgrade our source. It shows you what else needs work. Its a slippery slope that most of us have all slipped on but its a fun ride.

I love my current CJ amps and they are great at making not the very best front end still sound great with a rich lush and warm sound. I am looking to improve upon these and get a much more neutral, powerful, resolving, dynamic and transparent amp that still posses that tube dimensional and layered realness sound with humanity and soul to the music. Tough act to pull of without tubes but my thought is this will get the most out of my M1!

I am now thinking the monster Pure Class A amps Steve from Empirical used in his rooms to tout his new top of the line DAC. The Clayton Audio M300 Mono blocks I am hoping may be the answer. If you or any of the guys on here know of these and think they will work well when driven direct like Steve did from my M1 that would great and I would love any feedback. These are huge, heavy, plain looking, run real hot but sound great and offer what above I am hoping to pull off. Thanks guys

Fsmithjack,

"I am looking to improve upon these and get a much more neutral, powerful, resolving, dynamic and transparent amp that still posses that tube dimensional and layered realness sound with humanity and soul to the music."

You are describing the Wells Audio Innamorata or the Innamorata Signature. On top of that, they are not huge, they are beautiful looking and do not run hot. A dealer friend of a friend of mine, has also listened to them in comparison to the Claytons, and the Wells win. My friend and I both own Innamorata amps now.

04-03-15: Fsmithjack

"I am looking to improve upon these and get a much more neutral, powerful, resolving, dynamic and transparent amp that still posses that tube dimensional and layered realness sound with humanity and soul to the music. Tough act to pull of without tubes but my thought is this will get the most out of my M1!"

.........................................................

Fsmithjack. I found exactly that in my Merrill Audio Veritas class d monoblock amps. These things rock big time in all of the areas you mentioned. Do some research on them,you can thank me later...8)

The Trinity Dac…Ahh yes, I spent a weekend with one a month ago, as well as the Golden Gate Dac in an UBER system.

Thumbs up for both of them...

I would agree with Sabai that the Berkeley Ref Dac is indeed the one to beat at its price point (the Trinity being at a much loftier price) and is in a different league altogether compared to the M1. But at about half the price of the Berkeley, the M1 is very good value.
I was mesmerised by the Berkeley Ref just a couple of days ago when I dropped by my local store and there was this gentleman playing his own cd's of Oscar Peterson and Nat King Cole that had both of us riveted to our seats. There was the added bonus of D'Agostino's Momentum pre- and power amps hooked up at the same time and the experience was truly sublime.

At 4k, this new baby from Cary Audio sounds like very good value indeed. And it has tubes.

http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/cary-audio-introduces-dac-200ts/

Jon2020,

That was me with the Oscar Peterson and Nat King Cole CDs.

As great as I believe the M1 is, there are no absolutes in audio. I love the the M1 because it meets my musical preferences, not because it's the best DAC. The M1 has completed my system and until I'm ready to upgrade my speakers, I'm officially off of the upgrade train!:)

Agisthos,

I'm sorry but the facts show that your statements are totally inaccurate.

1. This is from the Stereo Times review that lauds Paul McGowan and Ted Smith:

"... DirectStream represents a new benchmark in audio reproduction ..."

2. This is from John Darko's Digital Audio Review:

"... the DirectStream ... takes the listener to an altogether different digital audio realm both in its creative circuit design and its sumptuous sound ... I've put my money where my mouth is: I've purchased the DirectStream review unit ... I think that speaks for
itself."

3. This is from Vade Forrester's review in The Absolute Sound:

"It’s easily the best DAC I’ve heard in my system, making digitally-recorded music sound better than I’ve ever heard it."

4. This is from David Robinson's review in Positive Feedback:

"This is a brilliant design, with exceptional execution, and paradigm-setting sound."

5. This is from Art Dudley’s review in Stereophile:

“… for those who've waited for a computer-friendly DAC that offers, with every type of music file, the best musicality of which DSD is capable, the PerfectWave DirectStream may be in a class by itself.”

6. This is from Karl Sigman’s Audiophilia review:

“The DS is a game changer … The DS gets my highest recommendation; hats off and a bow to PS Audio.”

IMHO it is unfortunate you did not get your facts straight first before commenting on the DirectStream DAC.

Sabai,
Cool! I had a hunch but I wanted to draw you in with my post to see if I get a confirmation from you.
Cheers! J.

Ricred1

So many great comments and suggestions here. Thanks to all I look forward to responding to each of them when I have a little more time but for now I have to at least tell Ricred1 that you are very welcome and I am glad my comments in any small way may have helped you make a component buying decision that worked well for you. That makes me happy.

That is what this is all about. Helping and looking out for one an other and learning collectively about this great hobby of ours.

The M1 is flat out a killer DAC and then some and of course I am sure there "maybe" a couple better out there but not many and to get better you are going to spend a lot more money for what I am confident to say will not have the performance increase that is commensurate with the added cost but heck better is better and that's that. No excuses. This is the big leagues. The main reason I am happy about the new Berkeley is that it is close enough (approx double the retail price) that it will probably have Brian tweaking away to come up with a free or dirt cheap hardware or software upgrade for his owners that he offer to us for dirt cheap or even free that will close the gap or maybe even surpass it. I love that about Bricasti. They improve this unit and sell more of these rather then offering new ones. It helps us and him!!

Gotta decide on a tube sounding new amp for my Bricasti M1 with driver grip and power but tuby for sure. Thanks for the current suggestions and please keep em coming again I will respond when I have some time :) Thanks !!!

Sabai, I have read all those reviews previously.

You are taking one or two lines out of context. You need to read an entire review to get a sense of whether a reviewer REALLY thinks a product is 'thar best evar' or whether they are going through the motions. It's a subjective thing, and I know enough of the politics to see the praise was well tempered.

To put this in context, I'm not saying the DS is not a fantastic sounding DAC, its perhaps just not the price to performance breakthrough it was claimed to be, just a great DAC for 6k. The fact that DAC's only just above its price bracket are competing and beating is proof enough.

Agisthos,

With all due respect, none of the quotes I have cited are taken out of context in any way, shape or form. Robert Harley did not write "one or two lines" that were positive in his review of the DS DAC -- that I am supposed to be "taking out of context", according to you. Nor did the other reviewers. Harley's review was a very positive one as were the others cited. Everyone can easily check the veracity of what I am saying by looking up these reviews via Google.

You stated, "The fact that DAC's only just above its price bracket are competing and beating is proof enough." Kindly name the names of the specific DACs you are alluding to that are "competing [with] and beating" the DS DAC and that are "only just above its price bracket" so that everyone here can evaluate your statements for themselves.

Jon2020,

It was a pleasure meeting you. I am working on DIY plug-and-play speaker tweaks that I may eventually commercialize. They were actually installed on the binding posts with Tommy's speakers. Before you arrived we did some A/B-ing and we both heard a big improvement in SQ. Maybe we can get together on our next visit to Singapore. I could bring them along for you to hear.

Give it up. I had 2 DS dacs, very average. $3000 and falling all over. So what, that's the game of high end audio. Just bought North Star Supremo, great sounding dac. Give me two weeks, but I think this one is different. I also had Bricasti fully loaded, thought it was very good.

Sabai,
It was a pleasure for me too. Your speaker tweak sounds interesting. Just let me know when you will be in Singapore again.
Cheers! J.

Jon2020,

Thank you. I will let you know when we'll be in Singapore again. Probably sometime next year. I look forward to it.

I've been playing the M1 for 4 straight days and I'm really enjoying my system. I don't know how the DSD compares to the M1 in an system that utilizes a preamp. In my case I use my DAC as a preamp/DAC and there is a very significant difference between the DSD and M1. Is the difference the DAC, a better implementation of the preamp, or both? What's better with the M1?...bass, dynamics, after 30 hours the soundstage, smoothness and tonality. Many believe the preamp is the heart of a system and just maybe that's why I hear such a difference between the two. If you have a preamp, maybe the differences are diminished.

It def will be diminished if you have a lesser preamp that drags it down.

The deal with DACs is that it all matters. Not just DAC chip or how it is implemented but the power supplies, the critical output stage, the filers, volume control (if it has one), quality of the the case, the vibration control, the entire package. A great way to tell the strength of a DAC is how it sounds by itself. It takes more possible synergy problems out of the equation when evaluating it.

Like you in my system I thought the DSD sounds much better with a Pre and with the M1 I prefer without a pre or at least it is good enough to chose the different flavors verse of with or without vs a obvious sound quality jump. That right there kind of says it all. Are there certain DACs that have great synergy matches with certain pre's? I am sure there are but chances are if a DAC sound good enough without a pre that advancement in the output stage matters and it will carry over to the performance with a pre with the caveat of synergy concerns aside...

All this said I agree with your point that prob a big part of the reason the Bricasti has such superior sound quality is because of it's dual mono design; with duel completely isolated channels, each with its own dedicated linear power supplies

because of its outstanding duel mono output stage.

IF you are looking for an amp and love the M1 why don't you buy the Bricasti amps. I believe it would be a much bigger upgrade with their amps than the the dac. From what i heard i thought they where amazing!

I would love to if I had $30,000.00 to spend on amps. I bet they sound incredible but def over my head. Maybe a used pair down the road in a few years would be killer... Thanks for the input though :)

Guys, my Bricasti is still get better and better. Man its impressive.

UPGRADE: I added a SOtM SMS-100.

I goes between your DAC and your computer (PC or MAC).

Rather than hooking your USB cable to the computer then to your DAC you hook this between them. One end goes to your DAC on the end your internet router via Ethernet cable. It take all the computer power line noise/crap out of the signal path and its and awesome upgrade.

Huge upgrade and it is only $435.00.

I owned a few weeks back and didn't like it because with JRiver MediaCenter 19 there was not way to use the EQ and DSP options. EQ / DSP are 100% mandatory when using JRiver on computer as source so so I sold it.

I found out the newest version JRiver MediaCenter 20 now lets you use the EQ/DSP feature when using the SOtM SMS-100.

The EQ and DSP features are mandatory when using a computer so if you are not using those reach out to me because you have no idea how much you are missing. Well JRiver MediaCenter 20 has it all. It allows the use via the DLNA and it works outstanding and is a huge upgrade.

For you Bricasti owners or DirestStream owners that use a computer / USB as a source this is a must add and its cheap!

DirectStream owners this sounds much better than the wireless Bridge also. With the DirectStream I owned the bridge used it but when I bought a really good USB cable I liked the USB better, quite a bit better than the Bridge and this is much better than both so wanted to share.

Thanks

Hi Fsmithjack, and others, happy owner of Bricasti M1 for two years now here.

I haven’t been reading a lot on this topic since I bought M1 a year ago, you guess, I was listening to music instead. I upgraded from Bryston BDA-1 and without going into any comments on price differences I would just say M1 put me in the different league. BDA-1 is fantastic DAC for money but I believe (to some extent) that you get what you pay for in the end. BDA-1 taught me one thing tough: I don’t like up-sampling! Since up-sampling feature can be engaged or bypassed on this DAC it didn’t took me long to find out that I always prefer not-up-sampled sound regardless of incoming sample rate. Yes, to me red book (16/44.1) sounds better if played ‘just as is’ without any up-sampling or conversion to DSD like many DACs do internally without even giving you the option to bypass. The fact that M1 doesn’t up-sample or convert but simply get the most out of the native incoming digital format was one of the major reasons I took Bricasti M1 into consideration after reading fantastic review in Stereophile magazine. My unit already came with new power supply and so far I upgraded firmware once to get DSD playback and that was it. I had pleasure to speak with Brian few times at audio shows and we exchanged few e-mails after and I can only say this is the best you can get in terms of customer support and responsiveness overall. Brian is very nice guy to deal with and responds in a matter of hours if not minutes if you have a question or need any help.

On sound I wouldn’t repeat what others already sad but I can say M1 brought me closest to the sound of original studio master, analog or digital regardless…Having worked for some years in music recording industry I was happy enough to hear how ‘original masters’ or ‘live feed’ sounds so I could compare.

I also transferred my vinyl collection to PCM 24/192 format on Tascam DVR-1000 Master Digital Recorder and was surprised when I played these recording first time on M1. Finally difference between original analog sound from turntable and digital copy disappeared. With BDA-1 digital copy sounded very good but it was always ‘something’ that was missing, funny thing is that you can notice this first by focusing on vinyl anomalies like clicks and pops which were slightly muffled and slow comparing to analog signal from turntable. I think M1 does fantastic job recreating timing so transients and everything else sounds just natural.

And since nothing is perfect here is my question to everyone reading this thread:

DSD reproduction??? What is your experience with DSD files playing through M1? I admit I didn’t read all postings in this tread but in the most of I’ve read I didn’t find single comment on DSD sound through M1?! I’ve been puzzled since we’re comparing M1 to PS Audio DSD DAC which in essence is DSD machine and if I’m not mistaken all audio regardless of sampling rate is up-sampled to DSD first and then decoded to analog. It’s kind of strange no one is mentioning this that should’ve been natural strength of PS Audio DAC?!

I’m asking this since I feel DSD files don’t sound as good as PCM on M1. To be clear the best DSD (SACD) I’ve heard so far in my home is from Esoteric DV-50 universal player which I sold when I bought OPPO BDP-105. I thought OPPO will do everything as Esoteric + Blue Ray but in terms of DSD reproduction it never sounded as good as Esoteric. Then I thought I’m expecting $1100 player to sound like $7000 one which is not correct so M1 will fix that. I ripped all my SACDs using PS3 station to DSD files but it couldn’t match Esoteric either.

Simply, M1 and OPPO DSD reproduction sounds too mellow, it doesn’t have a bite and live flesh I’ve used to hear from Esoteric DV-50. Going from DSD 2 to DSD 0 filters in M1 slightly improve experience but nothing significant. SACD played through Esoteric sounded full bodied, extremely fast with top notch transient response and lifelike dynamics while M1 and OPPO give me decent sound to listen to but sometimes I feel it’s even better to listen to CD layer from SACD disc because it sounds faster and more relax then SACD. Possible reason could be that M1 internally converts DSD to PCM before decoding and OPPO is doing the same?! PC Audio does exactly vice versa, converting PCM to DSD before decoding so I would expect it to sound better with native DSD files? Anyone that can comment on this?

To be clear even if this is drawback of M1 I would still keep it considering as minor flaw since the way it’s does PCM is much more important to me, I have maybe 5% of my music in DSD format but I want to hear from other M1 owners if they noticed the same?

However I would like to know if there is any DAC in the market that does PCM and DSD in native manner, all the way through, without converting from one to another format and of course doesn’t cost arm and leg?:).

My system:

1. Customized Zuma design finless PC / SOtM tX-USBexp Audiophile PCIe to USB Audio Card / SOtM mBPS-d2s Intelligent Battery Power Supply / Wireworld Platinum Starlight USB Cable
2. JRiver Media Center 19 (Playback from Memory, dsd over pcm dop)
3. Bricasti M1
4. Mark Levinson No.326S Pre-amplifier (0 dB gain set internally, preamp acts only as buffer as I’m using it’s analog ladder volume control instead of using M1 digital one). Besides I have other analog source components (turntable, Tuner, DSD analog playback from OPPO and Tascam) so I need preamp in my system.
5. Mark Levinson No.436 mono-block power amplifiers
6. Revel Ultima Salon2 loudspeakers
7. Audience Au24e Speaker cables (Bi-Wire)

Guys, what filter settings are you using for DSD on the M1?