Tring the Audiophilleo 2 as a more simple fix and it works pretty great and no bugs or problems. Anyone every try these with your Bricasti or DirectStream??? |
I would love to if I had $30,000.00 to spend on amps. I bet they sound incredible but def over my head. Maybe a used pair down the road in a few years would be killer... Thanks for the input though :) |
No I have not tried that upgrade yet! I am going to try it now. Its tough so many love the DirectStream and I really like it but a few people that I have read about say the M1 is much better so its tough. Would love to do a side by side but for now some feedback from the folks on here would be great and def helpful and I know its just opinions but I find them helpful for sure from this great site. Would love to hear from anyone that has any feedback. |
Hi Mrderrick,
Honestly I have had a bunch of pre's and trust me the REF 1 is only a decent pre but nothing crazy. The Rhodium IEC that allowed the use of the excellent over achieving Mad Scientist PC-NEO with Power Purifier AC Power Cable and NOS tubes really has helped this pre out and made it much better. I traded a CAT SL-1 Sig MK III for it in my system with the mods/tweeks I find it better for sure but with either there was no comparison. Really not even close. I tried no pre just the other day for the heck of it. Such better controlled and tighter bass and much more solid imaging with the Ref 1. I was astounded and quite surprised when I put my pre back in just last night how much better with the pre. One of the reasons that made think of the DAC change that a decent but not all world pre would offer such an improvement made me think what would happen if I upgraded my source but also this is without the new update so that could make a big change. I also use the PS Audio base for vibration control and plug the DAC into a PS Audio Power Plant Premier so I have been pretty invested in PS Audio gear. I have read before people like these without a pre better and I just can't see how anyone could over think that but each system and preference is different but it was very obvious in my system. Thank so much for the feedback though I really do appreciate it. |
Oh nice thanks. What footers are you using? I run my cj mono's through the base as it is passive and plug my ds into my ppp. I use a sablon corona petite ac cable for ds and jps ac+ ac cable for the base to drive my mono's with a bmi shark ac cable to run my ppp. I actually use a decware external triode output stage after my ds before my ref 1. this maybe why my ref 1 sounds so nice. I have tried again and again so many times to get rid of this external triode output stage with hopes that it would not be needed with new equipment but i just can't its impossible. Tons and tons of A/B comparisons. Had it with my wfs dac2, Ayre qb-9, ps audio pw mkII and now the ds and it just adds so much and really no downside or trade off so to speak that I can detect. Just deeper, wider, more vibrant and colorful 3d sound as triodes always seem to ad. This sound is fuller and deeper and more palatable and I think it may compensate for those that call the ARC's semi bleached sound. Really it is like having the ds dac modded with a real nice triode output stage except it has benefit of noise isolation in its own robust enclose.
With it I use a fantastic pure silver darwin truth interconnect and nos tele ECC801S and another Sablon cable. All in Its about a $3k mod that as much as I have tried can't seem to not use. At max it adds 5v of gain but i run it at about 3.2 volts and it really makes the vocals standout against the rest of the image. The images are rounder and fuller and more natual and feel realer. It almost feels like cheating it adds so much but I mention this in detail only because I think it really adds to a decent tube pre and makes it much much better than the pre would be by itself. I know many people say simpler is better and all that but what is great is you can always unplug if you don't want to use but that was my thought before I starting using it and just can't get it out. Would love to hear more about the Bricasti is anyone has info. Thanks so much... |
Hey Mcondon,
Great info! Thanks so much that is super helpful info... Thank you... I can tell you I just did the Pikes Peak OS Upgrade and it is fantastic. I guess you have give PS Audio some credit when you can go onto their website download a software upgrade and in many ways it totally changes the DAC. If I had done this before I got the Bricasti stuck in my brain I probably never would have been thinking about the change but we all know how that goes... Its that good! Everyone that owns one of these needs to do it and ASAP. That said I am still all about the M1 so any other feedback would be very much appreciated. Thanks |
I guess changing transport would be a good idea if I knew more about it prob would have been better. Any advice you guys have please share - please. I work a ton and went with a i5 new computer. I also have a MacMini I7 but Jplay in computer is way better than the Mac IMO. JRiver Media Center 19 and Jplay 5.2 and a super great USB Cable and that was about my depth level on that end. Guess I should look at the transport. Guess it would help with the DS or the M1 but good point and if you know of any tips please share. Thanks |
Wisnon
Thank so much for the info? Do you guys think this SoTM-100 would improve the sound over regular computer usb? They are $450 and i will buy one now to try it if you guys think it will be an upgrade? Thanks |
Yes I have heard the Overdrive SE DAC is a very nice DAC indeed. Not sure it is quite there yet in the uber competitive lower upper class of to name just a few Lampi, Berkeley, Meitner, Bricasti, MSB, dCS and it looks as if the DirectStream has poked its heard into there as well into this prestigious group. I know there are others this is small list but listed it to name the main charterers imo. Good to see your grass routes approach to the brands development which is meant as a compliment. I wish I knew more about the transport side of things. Looks like I have some work to do for sure. I very much appreciate the feedback. Correct me if I am wrong but I would assume any improvement I make in the transport area will provide benefits to any / all of the above mentioned DACS. With this group mentioned above do you really think their USB implementation is not good enough and really needs an off ramp? I have no doubt the off ramp will offer improvement but these are some pretty serious, engineering driven companies that seem to have paid decent attention to their USB's inputs but I am happy to always learn more from those that know much more than I. The transport/computer side of things is sort of a blur for me as evidence by my just using JPlay, a killer USB cable and JRiver in a plain old HP i5 Desktop. Would love to hear and learn more...Thanks |
This is probably a really dum question but as you can see the transport / computer side of this stuff has me at a loss like I had mentioned earlier but could I still use JRiver and the JRemote on my iPhone with a " Antipodes Linux-based server driving an Off-Ramp USB converter powered by a Dynamo Hynes-based power supply and then S/PDIF to your DAC using my BNC-BNC cable ". Thanks. Could I use a " Antipodes Linux-based server driving the USB in my DAC and then maybe also use a Dynamo Hynes-based power supply? Thanks |
Hello 02-14-15: Audioengr,
I just read about the Synchro-Mesh and was excited about the idea of it and then when reading about it I noticed it has no USB in? How do I go from my computer to it and then to my DAC with only Inputs of Toslink, RCA, BNC. you had said i could keep things the same and try this but I don't see how? It is stuff like this I am not familiar with so maybe there is a way I am just not seeing?? |
Thanks for all the info and Time Steve. Can the The Short Block USB Filter be used with the Bricasti and will it be a helpful addition? Thanks |
Thanks for all of the info. I have made the deal and am trading my PS Audio DirectStream DAC and its matching powerbase and cash of course for a Brand New Bricasti M1 USB DAC and should have by Thursday so I will share my thoughts on the difference DACS with you guys.
As I stated I was very impressed with the Pikes Peak OS Upgrade and really enjoyed my DirectStream DAC a lot. It was the best DAC I have ever owned by far and I have owned other PS Audio DACs as well. The MKI and the MK II and used the Bridge with the DirectStream as well. I think I have a pretty good feel for the DAC using it with a decent amount of different speakers, preamp's and amps as well so I think the time I spent with it really allowed me to get a real good feel for it and an idea of the DAC how it works with the different equipment listed below. Here is the equipment that I owned and was fortunate to spend extended time using with my DirectStream DAC:
Speakers:
Martinlogan Spire
Audio Physic Virgo
Kharma CRM 3.2 FE
Wilson Sophia 2
Merlin TSM-MMI
Sonus Faber Cremona Audior
Ascendo C8 Renaissance, my current speakers which are so much better than anything else I have listed above and by far.
Preamps,
Decware CSP2+ with V-Caps
Sonic Euphoria PLC
Manley Jumbo Shrimp
JE Audio VL19 Balanced Pre
CAT SL-1 Signature MK III w/Phono
Audio Research Reference 1 MKII my current pre.
Amps:
Manley Snappers
Premialuna Prologue 1 Integrated
BAT VK-600
BAT VK-600SE
Premialuna Prologue 6 Mono Blocks
Pass Labs Aleph 5
Conrad Johnson Premier 12 Monoblocks (KT120's) Current
I have used some different power cables, interconnects and USB cables as well. I REALLY REALLY like the Darwin TRUTH interconnects with this DAC. I think they go amazing with this DAC and I liked the Cardas Clear as well but the TRUTH better, actually a lot better. They are special with this DAC a perfect synergy match imo. I also used a PS Audio PowerBase for Isolation and vibration control and used the PS Audio Power Plant Premier to clean the up the AC and I used the outstanding Tellurium Q BLACK DIAMOND Reference USB Cable that was by the best I ever used and much better than Audioquest Coffee and Diamond and Wireworld platinum usb cable and Darwin USB. For power cables I used:
PS Audio AC5 amd AC12
Nordost Blue Haven
Synergistic Research Labs Master Coupler
Sablon Audio Petite Corona AC Power Cable
Mad Scientist PC-NEO with Power Purifier AC Power Cable
JPS Labs The Power AC+ AC Power Cable
Synergistic Research Labs Tesla Series SE T1 AC Cable
Synergistic Research Labs Tesla Series T1 AC Cable
BMI Shark AC Power Cable
I will give you guys my thought on the Bricasti M1 but please anyone else that can provide some feedback on either of these DAC's would be appreciated for sure. Thanks |
Hello and thanks. I liked it a lot. I have them both on a little thumb cards so super easy to use either at any time. I think the pp upgrade is a big improvement but each persons system and preference is different.
My changing DACs is not because anything the DS did wrong or doesn't do in my system but more to do with my new speakers I think.
What I mean by that is that they are so much better and so superior to anything else I have ever had and they resolve and image so incredibly well that every little upgrade change has provided such clear and discernible improvements that it is this I think that has propelled me to try and really dial the rest of my system in and focus on the so important source.
This thread has been great because I now have a better understanding of my need to improve my transport after I change my DAC. My new speakers have really improved my knowledge and understanding of recorded music that I am looking to really nail down eve everything best I can.
I have heard the Bricasti M1 DAC multiple time at Fidelis in NH the Harbeth US Distributor and local Wilson dealer and it really struck me. It not only sounds "right" it really had a presence that wasn't analogue per say but made the music feel closer and more alive. I had that pop and drive that was special and it was so smooth and so resolving it seems to be on another level than what I have been accustomed to. It reached out and grabbed me and it remains to be seen if I can get that same type of presence in my system but my hope is with this DAC and an improved transport solution combined with what I think are great speakers will get me the sound i'm driving for but you never know and part of me is nervous because I know what I have now and that is a very special and outstanding DAC so we'll see... |
Yes I am really glad to now better understand the importance of the transport. I kind of wish I knew about that streaming transport before I mentally committed to the M1 but I am thinking my next move after the M1 is to go with a Auralic Aries streamer transport. It will allow me to still use my beloved Tellurium Q Black Diamond USB cable and keep using my JRiver. I m not a computer pro for sure. I tried combining all my music on one drive and now I have three of the same songs in a row on every album and have no idea how to fix it. The computer stuff is a little over my head so to buy a ready made transport seems like a good idea and I hope it add nice sq improvement. |
Thanks - what is a Regen USB unit from Uptone Audio and what does it do? Would it help using it just with my computer or does it need to go with a streamer transport. Thx |
Them there are some mighty fine big boy - big pants DACs. Them there former Theta folks at Schiit never intended to play with these fella's regardless of what their marketing folks may be pushing. They make mighty fine stuff in their price points and wouldn't be surprised if it ends up being the DAC to beat in that $2k to $3k range these DACs on this list are the tip of the spear in the Vanguard. Each company is a price no object approach and keeps tweaking and dialing these beasts in with updates that no $2k DAC could ever compete with. The parts quality required just cost too much regardless how a great a design... |
I mean its nice to think of what can be. Heck I am a fan of that for sure. Always have been. I have no doubt this will be a nice sounding DAC in its price range but lets be honest there are some really good DAC's already in that price range that sound great and those Theta alums will have their hands full with those DAC's for SURE never mind mentioning the MSB Analog DAC that's crazy.
Whoever said that is just name dropping. Why not it works. We are talking about it. A few years ago I paid $1,100 for a used Ayre QB-9 24/96 and Schitt has never built anything that sounds even close to that DAC so they need to settle down and show us something outside of the budget segment first.
They have proven they can get real nice sound for real cheap money but that next step is a lot tougher so we'll see and then we can talk about the next step and then the one after that and then maybe the MSB Analog DAC? Gotta love their name though "Schitt". Cool... |
I am not sure the thin use of "salesman" is real accurate on balance. Salesman is more of a stereotype than anything else and it's semantically challenged as life just isn't black and white nor is audio. There is a lot of gray. He takes the time to contribute to our forum and adds value, feedback and educates us on things he knows a lot more than we do as I can speak to first hand. He take a grass roots approach to talking about his products and that is a classy form of selling but certainly not being a salesman which carries a negative connotation. It's always in proper context and is relevant perspective to the conversation. His value added input is appreciated from this forum member. |
3 Days and the Bricasti will be here. I can't wait !!! Pretty excited to get it !!!
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Thanks Bill_! It funny because the new PS Audio DirectStream Pikes Peak upgrade really changes the sound signature of the DAC and it really takes some time to get used to. It really increases the instrument separation that was already good but is much better and until you get used to this change the music almost feels a little disjointed or like the PRAT was effected but I think that was something our ears and brain needs some time on because I am very pleased with it now and don't feel that way after a little more time with it. I liked it before and I like it a lot better now.
I also did a full interconnect swap from Cardas Clear to Darwin TRUTH. I did that before the upgrade but may have still been getting used to those as well. I am telling you guys these interconnects are incredible. I think they are better than Valhalla. Quite similar actually just not as cool and their smoother but with all the bite and grip to them there notes. Much better than the Clears and I loved the Clears. I traded my Clear's and sold my Valhalla and couldn't be happier. Check them out you will be very happy and thank me because they are less expensive and he always has demo models and gives you a 30 day full refund but you will never send them back. Even if you have $5000 interconnects you will keep them because you won't believe what you are hearing for this kind of money, but I think they are the best interconnects out there under the $3,500 and they can be had for $600 to $800 SE. I am not selling because I have nothing to do with that company other than being blown away by their cables that cost so much less and are so much better I can't believe why more people don't use them is all. Just trying to help out a fellow agon brother is all. Perfect match for the DirectStream with pp and I hope as good or better with the Bricasti. It's funny because I am just settling in on the DS and now off it goes. So goes things in our world of HI-FI... |
Steve - or anyone else I really need help! I got the Bracasti M1 and I am really bummed.
It will not work with my Tellurium Q Black Diamond USB Cable. This is a huge problem for me. This cable made my DirectStream MUCH MUCH MUCH better and it just won't work with the Bricasti M1. Been on the phone with Brian at Bricasti and the US Distributor for the Tellurium Q Black Diamond USB cable Fidelis in NH. If I knew this DAC wouldn't take my cable I would have never bought it. That is how good this cable is. I am bummed to the max!!! I plugged in a $3.99 cable from my printer and it worked fine but sounds like crap. I tried my Tellurium Q Black Diamond USB in Ayre QB-9 and it works great and it worked great with my DirectStream. Super frustrated and super bummed out. Steve I would love to still use this cable in some kind of configuration or work around if possible but used most my audio money on this DAC change. Could a off ramp work? I would need that and a good SPDIF cable? Not sure a $1,500 USB cable will be easy to Flip but it sounds amazing so I don't want to sell it but don't know what to do? This was not what I was hoping to report to you guys and I have been so looking forward to getting this DAC. What a HUGE let down... No music and not that it should be compared but the DirectStream with the all world Tellurium Q Black Diamond USB Cable vs the Bricasti M1 with $3.99 cable is such a mismatch. The Bricasti sounds like an am alarm clock. Obviously not a fair comparison but well its what I have heard from it so far....
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Hi Jon2020,
Not that easy. My dealer is in TX and I'm in MA. I called Fidelis in NH where I bought the Tellurium Q Black Diamond USB cable and they also sell Bricasti and they are checking their Bricasti against their Tellurium Q Black Diamond USB cable. It will not work not on mine no matter what I do. Doubt it is the cable because it works with other DAC's and doubt it is the DAC because it works with other cables. No good reason for this to be the case at all but it is. Brian at Bricasti offered to have me bring the DAC and cable to his shop to check out as we are both from MA. My next day off isn't until next Wednesday. Been waiting a week and a half for this DAC already so add that on and it sucks. I traded my DirectStream DAC and its matching power vibration control base which I am sure helped its performance which the Bricasti doesn't have the benefit of using either and cash for the Bricasti so I was never able to side by side but I know the sound of my DirestStream VERY well. I never used the $3.99 cable in my DirectStream because there was never a need. Both DAC's use the same German made driver so it makes no sense at all. I can tell you that the Tellurium Q Black Diamond USB cable was a gigantic and honestly I mean gigantic upgrade over a Audioquest Diamond USB cable that I thought was great when I had it. I actually tried the Tellurium Q Graphite USB cable first that was a huge improvement and when they got the Tellurium Q Black Diamond USB cable in and I tried it I was blown away such an improvement and that was over a already very good AQ cable. Over a $3.99 cable it just isn't fair we all now at this level how important cables are. Unfortunately they can make or break a system with one cable as I have just witnessed first hand. I am positive the DirectStream would sound terrible in relation with the $3.99 cable also but can't say for sure but my guts says yes. Now for the Bricasti after running it with the cable all night and this morning it sounds much better. Not sure if it was cable or DAC breaking in or what but it is much better. No where near the DS with TQ cable or even close but mush better than when first hooked up. I also have a opti-cable out of my computer but that isn't any better and actually prefer the crappy $3.99 usb cable. I can say that the Bricasti has shown this very special Naim like PRAT trying to shine through that is new to these ears and not something the DS had. I can tell this is a special DAC and just wish I could hear it. Who know if Fidelis has a Tellurium Q Black Diamond USB cable that works with their DAC maybe its my cable. That is what I am crossing my fingers for. Also, even with this crappy cable there is an immeiacy also that is shinning through that the DS lacked also. I can feel some PRAT and immediacy that seem to have this great potneital but everything else is way way below the DS - TQ combo. I will update you guys and please any and all feedback is welcome please. |
steve I am interested can you email me here on the forum so i can get some more info please. i would like an option that I can add to as I go like you mentioned please. the sooner the better I have no patience... lol. Thanks |
"" Does the DirectStream sound better with that cable?"
This seems like a critical comparison.""
I wish I tried it but I didn't and I can tell you at this level a $3.99 usb cable can suffocate a system like it is doing to the Bricasti. I am sure it would also do that to the DirectStream but to what level?? I would love to know what the Bricasti sounds like with the Tellurium Q Black Diamond USB cable because then I would know for sure what DAC is better becasue everything but break-in and the vibration base would be the same. I thought the Bricasti would be a definite step up and I still sure hope so but I am Not sure that is going to be case yet???? |
UPDATE: Hey guys thanks for all of the feedback, ideas and advice. For starters tonight after work I took the hour and a half each way treck up to Fidelis in NH where I bought my Tellurium Q Black Diamond USB cable.
They are the US Distributor for Tellurium Q and Harbeth and they are an overall amazing HI-FI Dealer. Super great guys. I got there a half hour after they closed and they stayed late as I called on route because the traffic was awful on RT 3 north and it caused me to run late. They not only replaced my Tellurium Q Black Diamond USB cable with a Brand new one but also gave me a Tellurium Q Black to try as well just in case the design for some reason of the Tellurium Q Black Diamond USB cable wouldn't work with the Bricasti to be safe. They are also good friends with Brian from Bricasti and they wanted to help me solve the problem. Brian had told me if the new cable didn't work he would like to see the DAC and the cable to try and solve the problem. Both parties were responsive and willing to do anything they could to assist. Outstanding service on both parts. I can tell you the service from both organizations is truly first class.
OK so I got home and plugged in the new Tellurium Q Black Diamond USB cable and bam it worked perfect. Its so odd because it worked perfect with my DirectStram and still works with Ayre QB-9 but regardless the new one works perfect and I couldn't be happier. I am stoked!
So now I have a brand new cable to break in and they really do need to break in and a brand new DAC to break in as well so its with understanding this that my first thoughts are about this new equipment.
First things first. Really good, high quality USB cables really do matter. Especially when plugging right from computer to the DAC. Maybe if I had an Off Ramp or other top quality component in between the difference would not be so extreme but it is. Also maybe if I never heard a great USB cable I wouldn't miss it so much but that could probably said for any top notch cable verse a $3.99 cable except with exceptions of maybe HDMI for TV to a certain extent. I am sure a $3.99 interconnect vs a Valhalla would offer similar results. The addition of the new none broken in Tellurium Q Black Diamond USB cable was nothing short of extraordinary. I can tell neither is broken in and I am going to enjoy their evolving and ripening. I am going to save my critical comparison of the two DACs after I can give them a chance to settle in a bit but this DAC is nothing like what I heard last night. NOTHING !!! What I can say it that it is more precise musical tool for sure. It does play on another level that is evident. You get a good feel between the $5500 DAC vs a $9000 DAC. There is a lot more there but it needs to settle down before I can really get into it. What I can say about the DirectStream is that DACis better than the sum of its parts. It is a very special DAC and this DAC seems to have true - great promise for sure but it def needs to settle down and break in a bit but it sounds pretty good right now. These are two very different DACS that's for sure. They have very different perspectives for sure but I like this Bricasti and it was nice to hear what it has to offer that really just wan't possible with a $3.99 usb cable... |
Jbnachman
Fear not my friend. The PS Audi DirectStream gets MUCH MUCH MUCH better after even some break in. These DACs need even more break in time than most. The consensus seems to be around 400 hours. Trust me is will evolve into a totally different component. The Auralic Vega isn't even close and not in the same class I am quite familiar with that DAC. The DS needs break in. It is sort of a painful process but you will be rewarded. Trust me I owned the MK I - MK II and the DS. You will be happy. Also, that USB cable will not let you get near to its potential. I just went through a whole USB cable ordeal and can speak to their great importance especially when just plugging to into a computer. I have learned from this actual post that I need to work on my transport to get better sound. At min at this level you should try a Audioquest Diamond or a Wireworld Platinum. It will make a difference.
On another note the Bricasti is already sounding much much better with not a whole of break in under its belt and I am very impressed!!!! I want to wait longer on more comments because the cable and dac are too new but this a totally different beast than I have been accustomed to and been around. This thing is a very serious piece of audio equipment. Very serious and I am gonna go out on a limb and say I think my tube equipment, cabling and transducers are very good synergy matches because it is quickly becoming apparent why some people describe this DAC as the best sounding digital component there is... I am really just waiting and hearing it get better and trying to get used to it while it evolves. Very special piece and already much better than I could have hoped for! After my problem with my USB cable that sort of hedged my expectations for this piece but that was a mistake to do that for sure... |
Sabai I think Mcondon was referring to a few of the posts out there where the owners have been pretty critical of the DS and are not big fans of it and there were more than few of them as opposed to the reviewers but we all know how that goes with them...
I am not one of them. I loved my DirectStream!
I think it is an outstanding DAC and I really enjoyed it and it totally took my system to the next level and then some. It was the best DAC I ever owned up until I purchased the Bricasti which I don't want to get into quite yet other than to say the Bricasti is "clearly and distinctly" a much better DAC than the DirectStream. Actually it's a pretty unfair comparison but we'll get into that later.
Please understand that doesn't take anything away from the outstanding DirectStream that clearly punches well above its weight. The Bricasti's retail price is over $9,000.00 and even at that lofty price point it's position is that of a "Bang for Buck" performance alternative to the more expensive big boys out there. I am told the last few hardware/software Bricasti upgrades really propelled it to another level...
I just needed to hear them both in my room and in my system but now I need go through the process that we all endure with new components of letting them burn in properly. It's a bitter sweat process but heck its all part of the fun!
I am one of those guys that enjoys the idea of pushing my system forward until it gets to who knows where. I am sure I am going to make a mistake along the way and before I solved the USB cable problem I was having with my new Bricasti I thought that may been have the case here when I traded in my DirectStream toward the Bricasti but after just a couple days of break in I can definitively say that is not the case and thankfully so... |
OK guys, lets stir the pot here a bit...
I think to criticize the RESALE and/or rather currently heavily advertised discounts on a NEW or DEALER DEMO PS Audio DirectStream DAC is a VERY valid point and this really deserves to be talked about and brought to light.
The RESALE is a HUGE problem with the PS Audio DirectStream DAC and especially for the guys that committed to the Brand and were one of the earlier purchasers that paid the retail or close to iy on these. Ouch
I am glad someone else brought this up and stated it because my goal when I started this post was not to criticize either brand or product. Rather it was too honestly and candidly share and speak about my personal experiences and opinions about them and to ask for feedback and sharing from my fellow Audiogon members. This so we can all compare and talk about the Bricasti M1 DAC and the PS Audio DirectStream DAC and all that is associated with their brands and the specific products and the dynamics associated with them. The resale conversation is super relevant.
People considering either of these DACs may read this post and IMO resale is an important aspect in the decision making process and I think with regard to the PS Audio DirectStream DAC it is a huge detriment to a potential buyer in some ways.
I am not speaking out of school here or taking unfair shots at PS Audio because I love their DAC and personally I have found their products to be outstanding. I have owned many of their products and have invested thousands upon thousands of hard earned dollars in their products. I always found them to be very well built and they performed at a very high level and I found theyre customer service to always be outstanding. They are a great American HI-Fi company and I am a fan of their products and their company but they are not above reproach as are any of us and in this regard they have some well deserved criticism coming their way.
As a buyer of a PS Audio DirectStream DAC and a former owner of one I was quite disappointed with PS Audios wanting to make every last red cent possible with their General Motors volume approach of making way more than the current demand and flooding the market and then having/allowing/encouraging dealers to get into these huge discounts to move them. This is a shame as the product is so good and it would have sold briskly in an organic manor without really hurting their current owners by driving down the prices and in effect the resale with this what I see as a selfish approach to squeezing ever last dollar. This is the High-End and it is supposed to different from the big box, mass retailers and they have every right to make money and they should make money and as much as they can I have no problem with that but like anything in life there is a line and in my opinion they went way over it and the proof is in the numbers. These things are everywhere more than any other thing in all of High End Audio. Everywhere
..
Part of the reason I think this criticism hasn't been louder is because they have done a great job at adding value and with the mad scientist Ted providing these excellent updates and making the products better and better. I thinks is a riot that they call the upgrades Free
lol. They have done an outstanding job improving the DAC and they deserve credit for this.
OK lets talk turkey about resale. The PS Audio is so much better than what other DACs in its "NEW" price range go for out there so it should hold up ok for a while unless there ends up being just to many out there no matter how good it is the prices will just drop. Simple supply dominant 101 stuff and this may or may not happen but it is something that should be thought about based on how they have been going so far its not an unfair thing or stretch to talk about.
These were $5,999 DACs and they are easily good enough to be $5,999 DACs but now with a saturated market in say the last 3-6 months give or take after the release of this strong companies best product ever they are already being offered for around $3,800.00 new/demo from actual PS Audio Dealers. That is not a good thing. One of the reasons I jumped ship while they are still hot. This is a lot of money and I love growing my system but I try to be smart with my HI-FI funds also. You have to so some digging but they are out there for this low range and you can find them regularly in the lower $4,000's.
Really I am not taking needless shots at PS Audio I am calling them like I see them but when I started trying to trade my DAC and talking to dealers of other brands it kind of opened my eyes. I was kind of a blind believer in Paul and Ted combo and was kind of naïve to how other folks out there were looking at it.
Now the sword cuts both ways and this could be a GREAT thing for you. It is an amazing DAC and in that high $3k range to the low to $4k range nothing can touch it. It is that good. Trust me if you have that money to spend you will be blown away. Compare it to others and you will be super happy other than to say it is a pain in the neck to break in and takes much longer than other DACs but it is worth the wait! This DAC at these prices should hold their value ok relative to this new lower price but man there are a lot of them out there and at what point is it too many. I didn't want to wait around to find out but man it is a great sounding piece that they are committed to improving along the way so it is up to you to decide. I made my choice! |
Guys when I started this thread I had a system that I have quite a few years and dollars into developing and I have been quite happy with it other than a little jaddedness that inevitably seeps in here and there.
One of my favorite pieces was the DirestStream and I was sort of worried to change what I thought other than my speakers and maybe speaker cables was the strongest part of my system. I started this thread in the hope of getting some feedback and learning more about both the DAC's. I am still going to give the Bricasti M1 and my USB cable more time to burn in before getting into the details but this DAC is absolutely stunning!!!
I am a little embarrassed at how naive I was and how I really had no clue about the Bricasti capabilities even though I heard it a bunch of times in other rooms and other systems.
Also before the last few upgrades to the Bricasti M1 I had heard some criticism for the Bricasti being kind of too analytically balanced so maybe my super warm CJ amps are just the perfect offset or not I don't know.
That being said this Bricasti M1 has taking my system to another level I have never experienced before. I have had a decent amount of different equipment over the years but nothing had ever come close to this type of dramatic transformation. I am still trying to wrap my head around it but the effect has been nothing short intoxicating. I just can't stop listening and it has this semi-starting to become jaded audiophile feel like a newbie all over again. I am sooo happy!!!! |
All good points but really this DAC was supposed to change the digital world. An outside the box design that no one can touch at under $20k. I really liked the DAC but the MKII was a $3999 not a $6k DAC and this DAC was supposed to really compete with the big boys and supposedly better most of them or I thought they said all of them, not sure I was to busy drinking the koolaid to pay that close attention.
So if this does settle at $3k which makes it then that means dealer cost would be somewhere around $1500 to $1800. That is why the Bricasti's of the world are not just better DACs they are built and operate on a different planet but I made the Mistake buying into all of PS Audio's marketing of 10 x DSD the 1 Bit the programmable gateway, actually thought then I maybe worried about liking it better than a Bricasti.
I mean in theory a super well designed and ground breaking $6k DAC maybe able to compete with a $9k DAC that uses off the shelf regular DAC chips right? I thought the DirectStream sounded great and also I was drinking the koolaid. I was so wrong the Bricasti is still breaking in so I still want to give it more time but guys I was caught up in all the hype. There isn't even remotely any competitiveness between these two DACs. I don't mean to sound course I really don't but this Bricasti to me has not just outperformed the DirectStream it has completely and utterly pulverized it to the point that it is embarrassing.
If the Bricasti is a $9k DAC and the DirectStream DAC is a $3k DAC then all I can say at this point is save your money and look for a used Bricasti that uses the same DAC chips as some other $500 DACs. I am embarrassed that I thought all that design 10 x DSD stuff mattered because it doesn't. Just spend 5 minutes listening to a Bricasti it will tell you that as it did for me...
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Ricred1 your statements here are utterly inaccurate
"Yes, the M1 is better, but to my ears to say now that the Directstream is a piece a junk is laughable."
I never ever said the DirectStream was a piece of junk anywhere at anytime ever. Read this thread through I have posted a ton of my material and my opinions they are on the record for all to read and are quite clear. I have stated over and over how great of a piece I think the DirectStream is.
This thread is headed about a comparison between the DirectStream and the Bricasti and up until recently I was worried that I would like the DirectStream better. I spoke of the DirectStream as other than my speakers and maybe speaker cables as the jewel of my system.
I am very disappointed in how Paul has taken such a great DAC that many people spent north of $5,000 for and just a few months later started whoring them out to gain market share and make every last cent but that has more to do with my loyalty to my fellow PS Audio audiophile comrades than anything else.
Also, this and most the things I write are of course just my opinions so they are what they are but when I wrote
"I don't mean to sound course I really don't but this Bricasti to me has not just outperformed the DirectStream it has completely and utterly pulverized it to the point that it is embarrassing."
This is not either of the things you assumed.
I was not speaking about small, discernible, subjective little things as I purposely chose robust and colorful language to accentuate my point based on what I felt so clearly. There is nothing small or subjective about these two DAC in my opinion in my system.
Also, this doesn't make the DirectStream a peace of junk either which I would never say because that is not the way I feel.
I want to share a quote from Srajan Ebaena he used describing another product because I think it perfectly and cleanly illustrates the point I am trying to convey with regards to core of what I see as the difference between the DirectStream and the Bricasti:
" Once I hit play, those cocky words "game over" did do a full frontal assault number quite without volition. When you're in the presence of better than you're used to by a significant enough margin, it takes no time at all to recognize it." |
Hey Steve from Empirical Audio. I saw in your awesome room you had Clayton Audio M300 monoblocks at the Newport show last year. Great system and I am thinking about moving from CJ Premier 12 mono block tubes to those monster class a amps. Wanted to know what you thought about them and if a tube guys like me would like them and if you think they would sound nice direct from my Bricasti. Most people think and myself included that the Bricasti is great direct and wanted your professional opinion. Thanks |
Hi Sabai,
Those Synergistic Research cables actually are not old all as they are current models so def not old but they are only used to both run my computer ($600 retail cable that goes from my PC to PS Audio Power Plant Premier ac re-generator and the other one is used for my 60 inch Panny GT50 plasma which is a killer TV and was a real nice upgrade for the TV.
For the computer I am sure a $600 retail ac cable is overkill as I couldn't really hear any difference but I used it there anyways so to insure that spot won't cause any damaged.
For the DAC I used Great AC cables.
BMI Shark Jeweler Grade Platinum 9 AWG AC Power Cable
Mad Scientist PC-NEO with Power Purifier 11 AWG Power Cable
Sablon Audio Petite Corona 2.0M 7 AWG AC Power Cable
JPS Labs The Power AC+ 2M 8 AWG AC Power Cable
Read about the Mad Scientist PC-NEO with Power Purifier a forum member on here who opinion I value compared it favorable to Hidiamond 4 power cable which an amazing and expensive ac cable. I decided to give it is a try and am glad I did because it is outstanding.
Then I went with a super rare and tough to find older BMI Shark which was the former BMI flagship cable and IMO it is truly an amazing cable and definite reference quality cables. It is quite rare as it actually used q pure Jewelers grade pure platinum cable in hot lead in the ac cable.
not for nothing but BMI is pretty much the best of the very best when it comes to a high end ac cable maker. Again it is an older cable but it had a retail price of $3,500 and other members on here swear by them as do it. Ctystal clean and detailed yet not etched. I an incredible cable.
The Sablon Corona Patitie Corona is a British made unit. The guys has a small downtown shop in london and he sells direct so not well known on this side of the pond but again another really great cable that punches way above its weight. Mine has a little more length and retailed a tab over $900 but it performs at a much higher level. Read about them one 6moons they love this cable as do it.
The JPS Labs The Power AC+ 2M 8 AWG AC Power Cable is more of a power amp cable renowned for adding great bass to any power amps and is super well liked. The cable surprisingly sounded great with both DACS but the others are better options.
Not sure how the synergistic would compare to these cables but doubt that class of cable could compare with these. i have listed above earlier in this thread a bunch of different and pretty high quality equipment which I think helped me really get a good feel for the DirectStream. I was fortunate to have had the experience with that much different stuff.
I think the cables I have used allowed me to get a feel for the DAC without the AC cables causing my not get to hear it at its best. That said would a $5000 ac cable improve it. I am sure it will but the cables I used should be comparabel to others in the $600 to $1800 range quality wise IMO.
This said I like all three with both DACs but the Mad Scientist was my favorite with the DirectStream and the BMI with the Bricasti but they were all pretty good.
You can spend tons more on power cables and 3 times more than the DAC if one so chooses but I think at some point a line needs to be drawn because I love power cables and they offer so much improved performance.
I went through tons and tons of power cables and spent thousands trying different ones and then buying / selling / etc then settled on these ones I have now but I am always open to trying new ones.
Sorry about the type o's on my phone. Thanks |
Hey Guys,
I have been super busy at work and have not had a lot time to write but my M1 is starting to break in real nicely an it keeps getting better and better. I promise when I get some time I will get to the proper analysis of the 2 DACS like I said I would but a fellow member reached out to me that currently owns a DirectStream and has been strongly considering the M1 and I emailed him some of my thoughts on it so due to my lack of time I thought I would share some exerts of the email with you guys for now until I get some time to do a proper write up:
March 11, 2015 4:04pm
Curious as to how they compare in the following areas :
Bass, Soundstage, and detail. ..are they night and day differences? Thanks for your time!
March 13, 2015 7:10am
Hey there,
Sorry been crazy busy and I typed a real nice response which took me a while and I really got into both the differences but accidentally hit the back button on my laptop when typing and lost it all. Ugghh...
The difference between these DACS is quite large. Their perspectives and their specific characters are very different. A much shorter version of what I wrote to you earlier initially speaks to the details and the sound stage which I think really is where the main difference takes place.
The DS has great detail and fleshes out many of the fine details in the music and I found it far superior to all the other DACs and CD players I heard before it and some were very good in deed but compared to the Bricasti the differences become a quite apparent. I think this is where some of the bright and/or over analytic criticism gets pointed at the DS. I loved the DAC and would have argued to the bone that no way it was a bright DAC but when compared to the Bricasti I can now see what those people were saying as everything in life is relative it just matters about from what perspective your viewing it from.
The reason I think, is that with the Bricasti within the sound stage its finite details are firmly fastened to the images specificity and you can clearly hear its detail origin very specific to the specific instrument and musician which lends to highlighting its haunting separation and integrating it with the whole of the entire musical flow and this can be a tough balancing act for many and where the Bricasti is far superior in this effect it is within this scope that lays a sort of force multiplier effect throughout the rest of the spectrum that gives it a mighty advantage. This is so superior to the DS and all the others that I have heard! It is errie like yet warm and inviting. An odd and intoxicating combination. Even with this bass, the DS has a robust and detailed bass that I was very pleased with but the Bricasti Bass is so much more layered and can be heard much more specifically to the specific instruments. The guitar stringing becomes more striking and full, the drums are starting and you feel the strike but more impressible is the long and true decay. The brash horns are biting yet warm and this bass is full nuanced and layered yet still robust but much tighter. Not as round but every-bit as low and even stronger yet quite different. It's more sophisticated and has a strutting like quality of confidence. It works from a more delineated and image specific bass that builds a more robust foundation to tightly work on up to the mid bass to mids or down. It is such an advantage it almost feel like its cheating. Kind of like a super fast runner that is moving so much faster than others but without even trying. Just a more natural and fluid gifted strut that it seems unfair. This carries right on down to the low stuff as well. The High seem delicate yet better extended with a sheen smoothness that just keeps going...It just has such a more relaxed and confident demeanor that it struts its robust, warm and dynamic self with such ease and elegance that its almost arrogant and exhumes class and prominent grooming and breeding. Please understand the DS is very nice DAC that I enjoyed mightily but my music world was changed more by the Bricasti then any other component/speaker or anything in Audio and I never would have expected this type of increase over what I thought already was an amazing DAC. It's funny how someones perspective can so radically change almost overnight. Hope this is info id helpful to you :)
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Hey Jon2020
If you have read the tread through as I think a lot of the DS folks have you will see I have spoke to how great the DS is and how much I loved it. These DS fans are awesome as I was a card caring one myself for a long time going from the MKI to MKII to DS then all the DS upgrades. I liked all the DS upgrades a lot but can see how some would prefer different versions for sure. I am sure if someone started a thread about a DAC almost twice as much as the Bricasti I wouldn't be offended because when you pay that much more heck it should be better but that isn't always the case and was sort of where this thread started. I was a DS owner when I started this thread. The DS blows away everything in its price range and many much more expensive ones as well so no speaking out of school there... |
Guys a point about the transport I wanted share.
I went with the recommendation that I got on this thread that improving the transport will provide a huge upgrade and can sometimes be as important or in some cases more important than the DAC.
Well I wanted to try a reasonable price thing first as I spend most all my audio funds upgrading from the DS to the Bricasti but i bought the SOtM sMS-100 Mini Server to lower noise from the usb interface and was hoping for a SQ improvement.
No go. Not sure why but my pc to DAC via my killer usb cable was much better than the SOtM sMS-100 Mini Server. I tried hard to like the SOtM but the pc to dac was better? I assume because the Bricasti usb interface is really good and my usb cable does a nice job helping out as well.
Now I was thinking of buying the SOtM usb card or maybe the JCAT one or do you guy know a better one. I am sure CAPS server would better but don't quite have that money yet unless someone builds them via DIY or has a used one or something. That would be amazing would love to hear from you. Want to stick with usb because i love the sound my usb cable has. Thanks and please I am just learning about the computer / transport side so would love as much feedback about this stuff as I can get and other reader will benefit as well as we are approaching 10,000 folks that are reading this thread. Thanks |
Hello Coli,
It just goes to show how system synergy and individual preference come into play. Everyone likes and hears things different. I keep reading how the Yale upgrade has been fantastic. Glad you are enjoying your BM DAC2. I have heard a modded DAC1 a ways back and liked it a lot but it was driving by tubes which seemed to be a good match for that DAC. |
Ricred1 has a real well designed amp from a great and very well respected designer. Both are spec'd well within each others optimal performance envelopes. I agree that hearing is Always best and the safest but much harder to do these days than before... I have heard both just not together but I think Ricred1is amp will sound GREAT with the M1 IMO... |
Hey Essentialaudio
Thanks so much !!!
I had no idea about this brand new review.
It looks like it's just a couple days old or so from March 2015 and its a must read IMO.
For my fellow Agon comrades that may not have the time or inclination to read the entire review here is a cliff notes version with a few exerts to give you the gist of it... I really like the down to earth conversational style of this Dagogo review.
By: Ed Momkus | March 2015 Dagogo
" I will start this review of the Bricasti Design Model 1 USB DAC by taking out all of the suspense. The M1 is one of the best DACs available on the market at any price. In fact, when used in the right system it is actually a bargain, since it allows you to eliminate a preamp. It also gives tweakers a huge range of filter options that adjust the sound. Finally, its a great looking piece of equipment that youll be proud to feature on your equipment stand. The M1 is so good that there is no need for a long review theres simply nothing in the way of a weakness. Any DAC thats better is not better because of a shortcoming in the M1. Now thats out of the way, lets get to the details."
"Whatever Bricasti did to achieve it, the M1s digital volume control is excellent. "
" I bought and sold several well-regarded DACs and developed the opinion that audiophile DACs fell into one of two camps: (1) fast, excellent PRAT, detailed sounding (although thats not a good description, as we will see) and ethereal; and (2) powerful, dynamic, full-bodied and somewhat impressionistic."
" In my system the Bricasti M1 completely obliterates the distinction between these two DAC camps. "
" The tonality of every difficult instrument to reproduce pianos, violins, cymbals, etc. was excellent. Every instrument, including vocals of every type, sounded natural. Tony Bennet, Diana Krall, Pavarotti, Mick Jagger, Patricia Barber and every other famous voice I played sounded very good and lifelike. At no time did anything sound like something else, and there was no confusion between upper standup bass and the lower registers of the cello, electric bass and electric guitar, mellotron and organ, etc. Quite refreshing."
"Finally, a note on power cords and footers. One of the pleasant things I noted about the Bricasti M1is that it sounded very good with a range of PCs. In addition, the existing feet of the M1 do a great job on their own. I eventually opted against using any aftermarket cones or discs. This can really make it easier to justify the purchase. I did not need to search for a perfect matching power cord or footers, both which would add considerably to the overall cost."
" the Bricasti M1 is an elite DAC regardless of price. Instead, I was looking for an analogy outside the audiophile world. I came across a review of the Bricasti where the reviewer stated that the M1 is an understated performer, one that doesnt necessarily scream for attention. I understand exactly what he meant, though I would add some clarification. The Bricasti M1 is understated in the sense that Jackie Robinson made baseball look easy and Stevie Ray Vaughn made playing blues guitar look easy. They may have made it look easy, but you knew you were in the presence of greatness. Thats the Bricasti M1."
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I felt the exact same as you. As I wrote about it earlier and was kind of the reason I started this thread. There is nothing subtle or even remotely close about these two DACS. It took a 100 hours or so for the M1 to start changing / improving and man did it change / improve. I still can not believe how good this M1 is and maybe its just my mind at this point but I swear it is still getting better and better. It pulverizes the DS I hate to speak this way because I loved my DS and it was better than so many other DACs I heard in its price and ones that are a lot more. The DS is a great DAC and so good that I thought really how much better can a DAC be? The DS is great / fantastic and it takes an all world / some say the best at any price to better it plus it cost almost twice as much so it should be better. All the other DACs near its price lose to the DS hands down IMO but the Bicasti is not in its price and not in its performance range and you'll see and be super happy. Its also a lot warmer DAC which will help even more with your SS based system...
On another note I was listening to the incredible Lampi Big7. The Bricasti is better. It is different but that doesn't matter the Bricasti is better.. |
Glad the pikes peak is working well for you. I found the pikes peak to be a real nice upgrade in my system. I really like it.. Congrats... |
Hey guys for those of you using a computer with usb cables. I know I need to improve my transport and upgrade from a pc and plan to when I have more funds but I have a nice cheap tweak/mod for you guys to try if you haven't already.
I have been using the JRiver MC 19 and Jplay. Jplay was a nice add and then I was using the fee Fidelizer. I thought that was a little bump in SQ but I decided to upgrade to Fidelizer pro it was like $60 and they built and emailed it to me in like 3 hours. It was a nice little upgrade for sure and real cheap and I wanted to share with you guys. A well worthwhile little add for cheap. It basically turns a bunch of non audio stuff off on your pc and I really like it and wanted to share with you guys.
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As I'm sure most of you know this but just in case for those that may not know or are new to ps audio direct stream downloads you should create a new empty folder on your computer / desktop and then save the update and put it in this folder. Then make sure you use a proper software tool to unzip/extract the files from this folder. Only after they are properly extracted should you then transfer those extracted only files on the little memory card that you are going to put in the DAC. I had read many people tried using the unzipped files as the download and it won't work that way... You mush unzip them first and It's just little thing but I wanted to mention it as may be helpful... |
Ricred1
How are you? I like the Bricasti M1 Direct to the amps so much that I am making a deal to trade my amps and my pre which I really like for better amps to drive direct. I am headed down non pre lane. I think with my current amps and pre I would say I like it a tad better with my pre but I think its because my pre is better than my amps. My amps are a bit too warm. Always welcomed and enjoyed their warmth but that was with brighter gear. Kinda needed that warmth to deal with brighter, not as resolved gear. I now am after a more neutral amp to get a closer more intimate sound. This is all from a pre lover. The pre used to be my favorite item but really because it helped pick up source imo. I am not sure I can call it heading down no pre lane because the M1 really is a DAC/Pre combo. It is not a popped in volume control by any stretch rather it is an outstanding well executed, duel mono output stage that has me putting my ARC Reference pre up on the trading block. I can always add a pre later if I go through pre withdrawals but my Bricasti is still breaking in and still sounding better. I think before I will revisit the pre I want to make a good run at improving my transport. Looking forward to that when I scrape up some more funds :) |
I can say in my current system my pre does add weight and body which I like and prefer but there are trade offs. Like most things in audio there is always a what goes up must come down thing but this is Bricasti with a pre vs Bricasti w/o pre with my super warm amps the pre leans them out a bit but not compared to DS. With the DS in my system I found my ARC essential and no comparison to not having it with the DS. With Bricasti the pre is more of a preference. Take it or leave it as one adds here and takes there type of thing and its just about a push with a tad leaning toward pre for now... I bet with a better transport I would prefer no pre even with current amps but that's my gut not proof talking. Looking forward to a more neutral and substantial amp direct and for that matter with a upgraded transport then we should be cooking with gas : )... |
There is a pair of Lamm 2.1 Hybrids that are mostly SS with one 6922 in each mono block. Any of you guys familiar with these? Was just wondering if a tube lover would like these amps and thought to reach out to you guys. Thanks |
Hi Spencer, Not sure I can highjack my own thread but I get your point.
I threw it out there on here because I listed my entire system earlier and have spoke about my amps as well and a bunch of the guys/gals that have provided input to this thread have opinion's I really value. In the event any of them knew anything about the Lamm amps I thought to take a shot in the dark here rather than starting a new thread in the amps section where I may not have gotten to them but I agree that I should just keep it to the DACS so my bad there...
That said with the 2 DACs at hand the DS and the M1 there is no long session needed imo.
I went into that in detail earlier on so no need to beat a dead horse on that point.
The DSD is a fantastic DAC and IMO the absolute best in its price range and it is much better than many more expensive ones as well but the M1 is lot more money. All that extra money gives the designer a distinct advantage and he doesn't have to deal with the bean counters nipping at the parts bin like the less expensive ones do.
The M1 is the best digital I have ever heard and once broken in I found it breath taking.
I love this quote which sums up how I feel:
Once I hit play, those cocky words "game over" did do a full frontal assault number quite without volition. When you're in the presence of better than you're used to by a significant enough margin, it takes no time at all to recognize it. |
I have heard Berkeley DACs a bunch of times but not their new Reference DAC but I bet it sounds amazing. Pretty expensive though I think... |
It needs a lot more time to break in. I think min a buck and a half or couple hundred. Run its 24/7 for a week. Turn amps of but run everything else and keep the music flowing so when you turn on amps music starts playing without doing anything else but flipping the power switch on the amps. Then at the end of the 24/7 week turn it off and unplug it and let it sit and cool overnight. Then turn it on before work in the am and listen when you get home and it will be quite different then now. Also, after the week and a few hours listening go ahead and think about a little tweak to your speakers location/toe in/out just a tad as its a different source and it won't need much but a little tweaking will go a long way... My soundstage image is pure wall to wall with crazy separation in there but it needed the break in to get there for sure... Break in is not a little extra with these but rather a pure necessity that annoying it may be is great once gets there and it opens up. The time is worth it and I wouldn't think of or worry about anything else until this happens... |
