I hope you are including yourself in the "every manufacturer" category.....he he.
I been around the block. I know marketing hype from reality. Reality is what you hear....what you experience directly.
It looks like some serious technology in the Yggdrasil....of course, no exotic Hynes regulators (you are the only one with the patience to deal with this guy), and Schiit are not the most tweaky executors.....but, this thing might be seriously great for the money and since it is so inexpensive can lend itself to modding (better regulators, power supply caps, WA Quantum chips, damping, shielding, better fusing, Mad Scientist Kegs, etc.) which, no doubt, will take it to another level.
One guy says its better than the MSB Analog DAC....the other says its better than the Bricasti (see page 8).....of course, these are just two guys talking and we really don't know the context of their A/B testing or anything.....but, what if this soon to be released DAC (suppose to be even better than the proto) is really that good then those of us who do not want to spend multi thousands on the DAC de jour will have something to make them smile. We shall see...er hear. |
I mean its nice to think of what can be. Heck I am a fan of that for sure. Always have been. I have no doubt this will be a nice sounding DAC in its price range but lets be honest there are some really good DAC's already in that price range that sound great and those Theta alums will have their hands full with those DAC's for SURE never mind mentioning the MSB Analog DAC that's crazy.
Whoever said that is just name dropping. Why not it works. We are talking about it. A few years ago I paid $1,100 for a used Ayre QB-9 24/96 and Schitt has never built anything that sounds even close to that DAC so they need to settle down and show us something outside of the budget segment first.
They have proven they can get real nice sound for real cheap money but that next step is a lot tougher so we'll see and then we can talk about the next step and then the one after that and then maybe the MSB Analog DAC? Gotta love their name though "Schitt". Cool... |
Many good Dacs out there and I tend to prefer the boutique guys.
The Big 7 is the best of Lampi that I have heard, but I mostly heard the 3 and 4. The 5 and 6 I have only heard briefly. His PS design is superb. Lampi DSD is also unique on the market
and sounds outrageously good. Next wek I will get to hear the Golden Gate Lampi in a killer high end system for an entire day, and can report back on my feelings then.
The Lampis dont sell in the regular commercial model, so the markup is not so high. Its a hybrid semi-direct model.
As fo all those Dacs I heard, well some at home, some at shows, some at Pals homes and some at the HQs of the companies themselves, as I have been fortunate to get invited to personal demos.
All of the high end stuff sounds good, but price/performance relationship has to come into play.
The ones that spak to me of high value per price would be the Dartzeel LHC-208, the Lampizator Big7, and to a somewhat lesser extent the DStream. Now be mindful that the DStream had the original firmware.
I was not a great fan of the Hugo, as I prefer the Qute EX with LPSU.
Never heard Empirical Dac, but I am inclined to think its very good, as Steve is boutique and knows his stuff. |
Rice - certainly not. I never have claimed zero jitter, only low jitter. I'm an engineer, not a salesman or marketeer. As for Hynes technology, its simply the best regulator for both digital and analog. I licensed the technology, so I design my own versions.
Steve N.
Empirical Audio |
Steve, I have read many of your posts.
No offense, but although you may be an engineer first, you are also a salesman and marketeer.
I recognize and appreciate both your engineering insight(s) and your marketing opinions. |
I am not sure the thin use of "salesman" is real accurate on balance. Salesman is more of a stereotype than anything else and it's semantically challenged as life just isn't black and white nor is audio. There is a lot of gray. He takes the time to contribute to our forum and adds value, feedback and educates us on things he knows a lot more than we do as I can speak to first hand. He take a grass roots approach to talking about his products and that is a classy form of selling but certainly not being a salesman which carries a negative connotation. It's always in proper context and is relevant perspective to the conversation. His value added input is appreciated from this forum member. |
3 Days and the Bricasti will be here. I can't wait !!! Pretty excited to get it !!!
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Congrats on your decision to go with the Bricasti M1 DAC. It's a superb sounding unit, and the company and the level of support that they provide is absolutely first class! Looking forward to your further thoughts on it... |
Thanks Bill_! It funny because the new PS Audio DirectStream Pikes Peak upgrade really changes the sound signature of the DAC and it really takes some time to get used to. It really increases the instrument separation that was already good but is much better and until you get used to this change the music almost feels a little disjointed or like the PRAT was effected but I think that was something our ears and brain needs some time on because I am very pleased with it now and don't feel that way after a little more time with it. I liked it before and I like it a lot better now.
I also did a full interconnect swap from Cardas Clear to Darwin TRUTH. I did that before the upgrade but may have still been getting used to those as well. I am telling you guys these interconnects are incredible. I think they are better than Valhalla. Quite similar actually just not as cool and their smoother but with all the bite and grip to them there notes. Much better than the Clears and I loved the Clears. I traded my Clear's and sold my Valhalla and couldn't be happier. Check them out you will be very happy and thank me because they are less expensive and he always has demo models and gives you a 30 day full refund but you will never send them back. Even if you have $5000 interconnects you will keep them because you won't believe what you are hearing for this kind of money, but I think they are the best interconnects out there under the $3,500 and they can be had for $600 to $800 SE. I am not selling because I have nothing to do with that company other than being blown away by their cables that cost so much less and are so much better I can't believe why more people don't use them is all. Just trying to help out a fellow agon brother is all. Perfect match for the DirectStream with pp and I hope as good or better with the Bricasti. It's funny because I am just settling in on the DS and now off it goes. So goes things in our world of HI-FI... |
Steve - or anyone else I really need help! I got the Bracasti M1 and I am really bummed.
It will not work with my Tellurium Q Black Diamond USB Cable. This is a huge problem for me. This cable made my DirectStream MUCH MUCH MUCH better and it just won't work with the Bricasti M1. Been on the phone with Brian at Bricasti and the US Distributor for the Tellurium Q Black Diamond USB cable Fidelis in NH. If I knew this DAC wouldn't take my cable I would have never bought it. That is how good this cable is. I am bummed to the max!!! I plugged in a $3.99 cable from my printer and it worked fine but sounds like crap. I tried my Tellurium Q Black Diamond USB in Ayre QB-9 and it works great and it worked great with my DirectStream. Super frustrated and super bummed out. Steve I would love to still use this cable in some kind of configuration or work around if possible but used most my audio money on this DAC change. Could a off ramp work? I would need that and a good SPDIF cable? Not sure a $1,500 USB cable will be easy to Flip but it sounds amazing so I don't want to sell it but don't know what to do? This was not what I was hoping to report to you guys and I have been so looking forward to getting this DAC. What a HUGE let down... No music and not that it should be compared but the DirectStream with the all world Tellurium Q Black Diamond USB Cable vs the Bricasti M1 with $3.99 cable is such a mismatch. The Bricasti sounds like an am alarm clock. Obviously not a fair comparison but well its what I have heard from it so far....
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Contact DH LABS in FLORIDA. You want their MIRAGE USB CABLE, 250.00 for one meter. You will be surprised how good it is, may even give your BLACK DIAMOND a run for its money.
Should work with your BRISCATI.
Cheers.... |
I cannot believe your Tellurium Q Black Diamond USB Cable does not work with your new Bracasti M1. What did Bricasti say when you spoke to them? What about Tellurium?
I think you said other USB cables work with the Bricasti but not the Tellurium Q Black Diamond USB Cable. There seem to be a wiring or sync conflict between the Telluriumand and the Bricasti but I have no clue what that is. Since the Tellurium Q Black Diamond USB Cable works with the Ayre QB-9 and the DirectStream, the conflict seems to be with the Bricasti M1.
What a bummer. A brand new DAC and your USB cable does not work.
Please keep us posted. |
Fsmithjack,
Relax, just bring your Tellurium cable to your Bricasti dealer and see if it works with his demo unit. If it does, he can just replace your M1 with a new one and you should check that one before you leave the store. If it doesn't, connect the Tellurium to another brand of dac in the store and if that works, it will show that the cable is not the problem. |
The issue here is between the M1 and the T cable - is the issue specific to your unit or is it a general one? If it's specific to your unit, the problem is solved. If it's a general issue, you are out of luck and you just need to shop for a new usb cable. |
with $3.99 cable is such a mismatch. The Bricasti sounds like an am alarm clock. A stock cord isn't ideal, but is it truly that bad? Does the DirectStream sound better with that cable? |
"Does the DirectStream sound better with that cable?"
This seems like a critical comparison. |
Fsmith - The Off-Ramp 5 should work fine with your USB cable, and it will likely improve on the USB interface in the Bricasti to boot. OR5 can be upgraded later to Off-Ramp 6 or Interchange Ethernet interface. Both big upgrades.
If you want Off-Ramp to sound the very best, it needs the Dynamo power supply option and my BNC-BNC coax cable option with RCA adapters. This cable is a true giant-killer at $250.00. These can be added later if you only want to get your feet wet. 30-day money-back, less shipping.
Steve N.
Empirical Audio |
Hi Jon2020,
Not that easy. My dealer is in TX and I'm in MA. I called Fidelis in NH where I bought the Tellurium Q Black Diamond USB cable and they also sell Bricasti and they are checking their Bricasti against their Tellurium Q Black Diamond USB cable. It will not work not on mine no matter what I do. Doubt it is the cable because it works with other DAC's and doubt it is the DAC because it works with other cables. No good reason for this to be the case at all but it is. Brian at Bricasti offered to have me bring the DAC and cable to his shop to check out as we are both from MA. My next day off isn't until next Wednesday. Been waiting a week and a half for this DAC already so add that on and it sucks. I traded my DirectStream DAC and its matching power vibration control base which I am sure helped its performance which the Bricasti doesn't have the benefit of using either and cash for the Bricasti so I was never able to side by side but I know the sound of my DirestStream VERY well. I never used the $3.99 cable in my DirectStream because there was never a need. Both DAC's use the same German made driver so it makes no sense at all. I can tell you that the Tellurium Q Black Diamond USB cable was a gigantic and honestly I mean gigantic upgrade over a Audioquest Diamond USB cable that I thought was great when I had it. I actually tried the Tellurium Q Graphite USB cable first that was a huge improvement and when they got the Tellurium Q Black Diamond USB cable in and I tried it I was blown away such an improvement and that was over a already very good AQ cable. Over a $3.99 cable it just isn't fair we all now at this level how important cables are. Unfortunately they can make or break a system with one cable as I have just witnessed first hand. I am positive the DirectStream would sound terrible in relation with the $3.99 cable also but can't say for sure but my guts says yes. Now for the Bricasti after running it with the cable all night and this morning it sounds much better. Not sure if it was cable or DAC breaking in or what but it is much better. No where near the DS with TQ cable or even close but mush better than when first hooked up. I also have a opti-cable out of my computer but that isn't any better and actually prefer the crappy $3.99 usb cable. I can say that the Bricasti has shown this very special Naim like PRAT trying to shine through that is new to these ears and not something the DS had. I can tell this is a special DAC and just wish I could hear it. Who know if Fidelis has a Tellurium Q Black Diamond USB cable that works with their DAC maybe its my cable. That is what I am crossing my fingers for. Also, even with this crappy cable there is an immeiacy also that is shinning through that the DS lacked also. I can feel some PRAT and immediacy that seem to have this great potneital but everything else is way way below the DS - TQ combo. I will update you guys and please any and all feedback is welcome please. |
steve I am interested can you email me here on the forum so i can get some more info please. i would like an option that I can add to as I go like you mentioned please. the sooner the better I have no patience... lol. Thanks |
"" Does the DirectStream sound better with that cable?"
This seems like a critical comparison.""
I wish I tried it but I didn't and I can tell you at this level a $3.99 usb cable can suffocate a system like it is doing to the Bricasti. I am sure it would also do that to the DirectStream but to what level?? I would love to know what the Bricasti sounds like with the Tellurium Q Black Diamond USB cable because then I would know for sure what DAC is better becasue everything but break-in and the vibration base would be the same. I thought the Bricasti would be a definite step up and I still sure hope so but I am Not sure that is going to be case yet???? |
UPDATE: Hey guys thanks for all of the feedback, ideas and advice. For starters tonight after work I took the hour and a half each way treck up to Fidelis in NH where I bought my Tellurium Q Black Diamond USB cable.
They are the US Distributor for Tellurium Q and Harbeth and they are an overall amazing HI-FI Dealer. Super great guys. I got there a half hour after they closed and they stayed late as I called on route because the traffic was awful on RT 3 north and it caused me to run late. They not only replaced my Tellurium Q Black Diamond USB cable with a Brand new one but also gave me a Tellurium Q Black to try as well just in case the design for some reason of the Tellurium Q Black Diamond USB cable wouldn't work with the Bricasti to be safe. They are also good friends with Brian from Bricasti and they wanted to help me solve the problem. Brian had told me if the new cable didn't work he would like to see the DAC and the cable to try and solve the problem. Both parties were responsive and willing to do anything they could to assist. Outstanding service on both parts. I can tell you the service from both organizations is truly first class.
OK so I got home and plugged in the new Tellurium Q Black Diamond USB cable and bam it worked perfect. Its so odd because it worked perfect with my DirectStram and still works with Ayre QB-9 but regardless the new one works perfect and I couldn't be happier. I am stoked!
So now I have a brand new cable to break in and they really do need to break in and a brand new DAC to break in as well so its with understanding this that my first thoughts are about this new equipment.
First things first. Really good, high quality USB cables really do matter. Especially when plugging right from computer to the DAC. Maybe if I had an Off Ramp or other top quality component in between the difference would not be so extreme but it is. Also maybe if I never heard a great USB cable I wouldn't miss it so much but that could probably said for any top notch cable verse a $3.99 cable except with exceptions of maybe HDMI for TV to a certain extent. I am sure a $3.99 interconnect vs a Valhalla would offer similar results. The addition of the new none broken in Tellurium Q Black Diamond USB cable was nothing short of extraordinary. I can tell neither is broken in and I am going to enjoy their evolving and ripening. I am going to save my critical comparison of the two DACs after I can give them a chance to settle in a bit but this DAC is nothing like what I heard last night. NOTHING !!! What I can say it that it is more precise musical tool for sure. It does play on another level that is evident. You get a good feel between the $5500 DAC vs a $9000 DAC. There is a lot more there but it needs to settle down before I can really get into it. What I can say about the DirectStream is that DACis better than the sum of its parts. It is a very special DAC and this DAC seems to have true - great promise for sure but it def needs to settle down and break in a bit but it sounds pretty good right now. These are two very different DACS that's for sure. They have very different perspectives for sure but I like this Bricasti and it was nice to hear what it has to offer that really just wan't possible with a $3.99 usb cable... |
Congrats on getting 2 new components all at once! The Bricasti is indeed special when I brought it home for audition in my system. That was some time back and with the many improvements since then, it would certainly be much better in its current iteration. Boy, do I love this forum. Now you can follow up through all the burn-in pains and gains.
Cheers! J. |
Glad to hear you got the problem identified and corrected. I told you that Brian's level of support is first class all the way. Enjoy the music as the break-in process continues, and we look forward to your further comments. Congrats!!! |
~
That IS great service, to be sure. I'm happy that it worked out for you.
When I moved to the DirectStream, a decent-quality USB cable that I had used on my Perfectwave DAC MKII produced terrible results on the DS. As the volume went up, distortion, crackling, and other nasty artifacts were produced.
Like you, I switched to a cheap cable and the DS worked fine.
I got a new cable from the manufacturer to replace the old one, and it too failed. Almost every cable EXCEPT that one worked fine.
The designer of the DS, Ted Smith, had remarked that some people just don't adhere to the USB standard when designing. Whether it's true or not, I don't know, but the results with that one cable were consistent.
Also like you, I moved up in cable quality after resolving the problem, and it DOES make a difference. I use a Transparent USB cable now, and the results are sublime. |
I just bought my Directstream to replace a Auralic Vega ... So far, I am not impressed. As front end gear goes, the DS has the Vega beat. The vega has no 12v trigger and as a preamp, was weak. Mainly the reason I got the DS in the hopes to get decent sound and to go direct to amp ... It's been 3 days and so far I am unimpressed. I really hope there is some logic to burn in cause I know what I'm hearing and its a lack of bass the Vega presented very well that is seeingly not there with the DS... I would LOVE for someone to really critique the DS vs Bricasti... I feel like I need to bite the bullet and get one... I have Zu Audio definition MK iV speakers and a Sim integrated i7 and Cardas clear light & clear USB ... The Vega And Sim share the same remote codes too which pissed me off ... |
Mcondon,
I note your comment about the PS Audio DS DAC not being "universally loved". Frankly, I have never seen a piece of gear that was universally loved because that means 100%. But I have rarely seen another piece of gear that has been as nearly universally acclaimed as the DS DAC has been. It has received wonderful reviews from almost all those who own it, that I have read about. And the DS DAC software updates give the user the opportunity to own a virtually new model with each version -- free of charge. I have never heard the Bricasti so I cannot comment on it. But I do own the DS DAC and am very happy with it. It far outclasses the EMM, Berkeley, Antelope, AMR, NAD and other DACS that I have owned. |
Mcondon,
I also note you have stated, "I doubt the Direct Stream will hold its value either, especially since it seems to get somewhat mixed reviews from people who have heard it or own it. It seems to need 1000 hours of break-in to sound its best ...".
Regarding DACs holding their value, can you name a single DAC that has held "its value" over a period of more than one year. Of course, it also depends on what you mean by "its value". Do you mean your purchase price, or the after market price 6 months or 12 months or more down the line, or something else?
Also, I have yet to read a mixed review from anyone who owns the DS DAC. And it is clearly stated by PS Audio -- and reaffirmed on many forums by DS DAC owners -- that break-in for the DS DAC requires 500 hours -- not 1000 hours as you have misstated. |
Jbnachman
Fear not my friend. The PS Audi DirectStream gets MUCH MUCH MUCH better after even some break in. These DACs need even more break in time than most. The consensus seems to be around 400 hours. Trust me is will evolve into a totally different component. The Auralic Vega isn't even close and not in the same class I am quite familiar with that DAC. The DS needs break in. It is sort of a painful process but you will be rewarded. Trust me I owned the MK I - MK II and the DS. You will be happy. Also, that USB cable will not let you get near to its potential. I just went through a whole USB cable ordeal and can speak to their great importance especially when just plugging to into a computer. I have learned from this actual post that I need to work on my transport to get better sound. At min at this level you should try a Audioquest Diamond or a Wireworld Platinum. It will make a difference.
On another note the Bricasti is already sounding much much better with not a whole of break in under its belt and I am very impressed!!!! I want to wait longer on more comments because the cable and dac are too new but this a totally different beast than I have been accustomed to and been around. This thing is a very serious piece of audio equipment. Very serious and I am gonna go out on a limb and say I think my tube equipment, cabling and transducers are very good synergy matches because it is quickly becoming apparent why some people describe this DAC as the best sounding digital component there is... I am really just waiting and hearing it get better and trying to get used to it while it evolves. Very special piece and already much better than I could have hoped for! After my problem with my USB cable that sort of hedged my expectations for this piece but that was a mistake to do that for sure... |
Glad to hear that your M1 DAC is continuing to improve and that it's already exceeding your admittedly high expectations! It should continue to evolve with more break-in time along with your new USB cable. It is indeed a superbly engineered and built example of what a high end audio component should be, along with Bricasti's excellent level of support. A product you can really be proud to own. |
My experience with the DS DAC is that it does take about 500 hours to begin sounding good. And even at that, you may wind up having to move speaker setups, check your room treatments, etc.
I have a pair of Vandy subs, so bass is not an issue. If it were, I'd adjust the subs, but I never had the need.
It is a remarkable DAC, and I don't expect to part with mine anytime in the near future. I'm lovin' it. |
Sabai I think Mcondon was referring to a few of the posts out there where the owners have been pretty critical of the DS and are not big fans of it and there were more than few of them as opposed to the reviewers but we all know how that goes with them...
I am not one of them. I loved my DirectStream!
I think it is an outstanding DAC and I really enjoyed it and it totally took my system to the next level and then some. It was the best DAC I ever owned up until I purchased the Bricasti which I don't want to get into quite yet other than to say the Bricasti is "clearly and distinctly" a much better DAC than the DirectStream. Actually it's a pretty unfair comparison but we'll get into that later.
Please understand that doesn't take anything away from the outstanding DirectStream that clearly punches well above its weight. The Bricasti's retail price is over $9,000.00 and even at that lofty price point it's position is that of a "Bang for Buck" performance alternative to the more expensive big boys out there. I am told the last few hardware/software Bricasti upgrades really propelled it to another level...
I just needed to hear them both in my room and in my system but now I need go through the process that we all endure with new components of letting them burn in properly. It's a bitter sweat process but heck its all part of the fun!
I am one of those guys that enjoys the idea of pushing my system forward until it gets to who knows where. I am sure I am going to make a mistake along the way and before I solved the USB cable problem I was having with my new Bricasti I thought that may been have the case here when I traded in my DirectStream toward the Bricasti but after just a couple days of break in I can definitively say that is not the case and thankfully so... |
The PSA DS dac does not start to bloom into a music machine until a minimum of three to four hundred hours. I now have around 550 hours on mine and it still amazes me as to how much more I am hearing from this dac. The pike peak OS is a stunning update,and must be considered mandatory to realize the full potential along with substantial break in time. It would be a big mistake to not give this dac time to open up. The reward for persistence will be large.... |
Fsmithjack,
Thanks for letting me know. I didn't realize this about Mcondon. Just as the Bricasti software improves its level so too does the software for the DS DAC. I am sure there will be improvements with DAC technology in the future, just as there have been in recent years. I am not on an endless quest. I have drawn the line in the sand except for room treatments and one other element. With my system at a very high level I see no need to keep on the treadmill anymore. I am very satisfied with what I have now.
I'll be interested in hearing your observations about the DS DAC vs. the Bricasti. I am very happy with my DS DAC and my system. I will not be selling it. I do my own DIY things and they elevate the system to a much higher level. This is the best bang for my audio buck at the present time. Buying a new component can improve SQ parameters but I achieve a lot with room treatments. I have enough detail, transparency, etc. with my system. I concentrate on sound stage and imagining with room treatments. |
Aolmrd1241,
Pike's Peak is not as good as 1.2.1 in my system. Perhaps future versions will produce a better result for me. |
I know price isn't always an indication of sound quality, but I don't understand why it's a shock that the Bricasti M1 sounds better than the Direct Stream...it should, it cost 1 1/2 times as much. When I purchased my Direct Stream my dealer told me the M1 sounds better, but it was out of the price range I allocated for a DAC.
I have a pair of Aerial 7Ts and love them. I heard a pair of Raidho C3.1 and they are the best speakers that I've ever heard. If I could afford them, I get them today. I just went from a Parasound A21 to a Jeff Rowland M525 and the differences are pretty significant. Again, not in all cases, but usually when you spend more money the SQ increases. There are some that don't think the incremental increase in SQ is worth it, but I do. Enjoy your M1! |
jbnachman,
FWIW, I have been luistening to digital music since the Magnavox CDB 650 (the first 16 bit machine) in the mid-'80's, and have been through countless DAC's. The PSA DSD is a dream machine once it burnms in, which does take a long time. You will hear the improvements after 100-200 hrs, but +400-500 you will hear how breathtaking it is.
It is PC and IC sensitive, so if you are have not already, I would ensure I had cabling equal to the DSD. Be patient and you will be amply rewarded.
Neal |
OK guys, lets stir the pot here a bit...
I think to criticize the RESALE and/or rather currently heavily advertised discounts on a NEW or DEALER DEMO PS Audio DirectStream DAC is a VERY valid point and this really deserves to be talked about and brought to light.
The RESALE is a HUGE problem with the PS Audio DirectStream DAC and especially for the guys that committed to the Brand and were one of the earlier purchasers that paid the retail or close to iy on these. Ouch
I am glad someone else brought this up and stated it because my goal when I started this post was not to criticize either brand or product. Rather it was too honestly and candidly share and speak about my personal experiences and opinions about them and to ask for feedback and sharing from my fellow Audiogon members. This so we can all compare and talk about the Bricasti M1 DAC and the PS Audio DirectStream DAC and all that is associated with their brands and the specific products and the dynamics associated with them. The resale conversation is super relevant.
People considering either of these DACs may read this post and IMO resale is an important aspect in the decision making process and I think with regard to the PS Audio DirectStream DAC it is a huge detriment to a potential buyer in some ways.
I am not speaking out of school here or taking unfair shots at PS Audio because I love their DAC and personally I have found their products to be outstanding. I have owned many of their products and have invested thousands upon thousands of hard earned dollars in their products. I always found them to be very well built and they performed at a very high level and I found theyre customer service to always be outstanding. They are a great American HI-Fi company and I am a fan of their products and their company but they are not above reproach as are any of us and in this regard they have some well deserved criticism coming their way.
As a buyer of a PS Audio DirectStream DAC and a former owner of one I was quite disappointed with PS Audios wanting to make every last red cent possible with their General Motors volume approach of making way more than the current demand and flooding the market and then having/allowing/encouraging dealers to get into these huge discounts to move them. This is a shame as the product is so good and it would have sold briskly in an organic manor without really hurting their current owners by driving down the prices and in effect the resale with this what I see as a selfish approach to squeezing ever last dollar. This is the High-End and it is supposed to different from the big box, mass retailers and they have every right to make money and they should make money and as much as they can I have no problem with that but like anything in life there is a line and in my opinion they went way over it and the proof is in the numbers. These things are everywhere more than any other thing in all of High End Audio. Everywhere
..
Part of the reason I think this criticism hasn't been louder is because they have done a great job at adding value and with the mad scientist Ted providing these excellent updates and making the products better and better. I thinks is a riot that they call the upgrades Free
lol. They have done an outstanding job improving the DAC and they deserve credit for this.
OK lets talk turkey about resale. The PS Audio is so much better than what other DACs in its "NEW" price range go for out there so it should hold up ok for a while unless there ends up being just to many out there no matter how good it is the prices will just drop. Simple supply dominant 101 stuff and this may or may not happen but it is something that should be thought about based on how they have been going so far its not an unfair thing or stretch to talk about.
These were $5,999 DACs and they are easily good enough to be $5,999 DACs but now with a saturated market in say the last 3-6 months give or take after the release of this strong companies best product ever they are already being offered for around $3,800.00 new/demo from actual PS Audio Dealers. That is not a good thing. One of the reasons I jumped ship while they are still hot. This is a lot of money and I love growing my system but I try to be smart with my HI-FI funds also. You have to so some digging but they are out there for this low range and you can find them regularly in the lower $4,000's.
Really I am not taking needless shots at PS Audio I am calling them like I see them but when I started trying to trade my DAC and talking to dealers of other brands it kind of opened my eyes. I was kind of a blind believer in Paul and Ted combo and was kind of naïve to how other folks out there were looking at it.
Now the sword cuts both ways and this could be a GREAT thing for you. It is an amazing DAC and in that high $3k range to the low to $4k range nothing can touch it. It is that good. Trust me if you have that money to spend you will be blown away. Compare it to others and you will be super happy other than to say it is a pain in the neck to break in and takes much longer than other DACs but it is worth the wait! This DAC at these prices should hold their value ok relative to this new lower price but man there are a lot of them out there and at what point is it too many. I didn't want to wait around to find out but man it is a great sounding piece that they are committed to improving along the way so it is up to you to decide. I made my choice! |
This is the problem you get when there is a lot of margin in a product so the Distributor and Dealer get a big cut. They can do big discounts and still make money. I don't have this problem. If my Overdrive SE was sold through dealers, it would cost north of $15K. Unlikely that any of my stuff will ever even be sold through online magazines. Direct selling is a great advantage for the buyer. Used Overdrives go for around $5500 and the new price is $6400. People have to get used to the fact that I don't generally discount. Once the have the product they realize what a great value it is and don't expect discounts from me anymore. I have a different business model and I'm sticking to it. I don't give a rip how other companies do it.
Steve N.
Empirical Audio |
From my perspective, I'm not concerned at all with resale value of the Directstream. I don't intend to sell mine, at least not for a long while. |
"03-02-15: Sabai
Aolmrd1241,
Pike's Peak is not as good as 1.2.1 in my system. Perhaps future versions will produce a better result for me."
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Hi Sabai. I am sure you are aware some other people feel the same as you. Just give a read on the PSA forums concerning this dac.
Everything about this hobby we all love so much is based on system configuration and personal taste . I for one also like what 1.2.1 firmware does,but for me,and my tastes,in my system, the PP is a much better choice.One thing for certain,its nice to have a choice in what works best for you.
I'm sure Ted Smith has a lot more up his sleeve,hang in there..
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Aolmrd1241,
I am aware some others feel the same way as I do. I am happy to have 1.2.1. I hope that a future version is more compatible with my system than PP. System dependence often comes into play. |
Guys when I started this thread I had a system that I have quite a few years and dollars into developing and I have been quite happy with it other than a little jaddedness that inevitably seeps in here and there.
One of my favorite pieces was the DirestStream and I was sort of worried to change what I thought other than my speakers and maybe speaker cables was the strongest part of my system. I started this thread in the hope of getting some feedback and learning more about both the DAC's. I am still going to give the Bricasti M1 and my USB cable more time to burn in before getting into the details but this DAC is absolutely stunning!!!
I am a little embarrassed at how naive I was and how I really had no clue about the Bricasti capabilities even though I heard it a bunch of times in other rooms and other systems.
Also before the last few upgrades to the Bricasti M1 I had heard some criticism for the Bricasti being kind of too analytically balanced so maybe my super warm CJ amps are just the perfect offset or not I don't know.
That being said this Bricasti M1 has taking my system to another level I have never experienced before. I have had a decent amount of different equipment over the years but nothing had ever come close to this type of dramatic transformation. I am still trying to wrap my head around it but the effect has been nothing short intoxicating. I just can't stop listening and it has this semi-starting to become jaded audiophile feel like a newbie all over again. I am sooo happy!!!! |
Always nice to hear when an upgrade works out and even exceeds your expectations! It's always a bit of a risk. Looking forward to further details on your experience in due time. |
I see PS Audio has a... buy a Direct Stream and get the Power Wave Transport for free. Now ,I'm not knocking the product or company... they make some very nice equipment,if not, I would not have purchased the DS and PWT. That being said,I have a hard time understanding why PSA would undermine their reputation by giving away product.
Do they make such cheap stuff that it has to be given away???
For people that pay retail or close to retail for PSA goods, it seems to me,at least,to be a slap in the face to those who ponied up and then after some time the price just falls flat on its face. I now see why the resale on PSA product is so horrible,if the company gives away their stuff then those who try to resale are looking to unload undermined boat anchors . What other high-end audio company goes to the extreme that PSA does? Come on PSA,your killing your loyal customer base...
If the retail value is to high from the get go,why not price it accordingly? I don't know,maybe I'm having a bad hair day... but this BOGO has me feeling a bit like... my loyalty to a company... with my wallet... has been violated...
ymmv...carry on |
Aolmrd, I saw that offer and had a similar reaction. But I thought it was well known that some PS Audio dealers offer very steep discounts below retail prices, especially after the model has been on the market for a while. I wouldn't be too surprised if the Direct Stream eventually sells new for around $3K. The big discounts make late adopters believe they are getting a great deal (I just bought a $6K DAC for $3.2K!). Unfortunately, as the retail price falls, so do used prices. I agree, though, that this approach to pricing is not fair to "early adopters" of PS Audio's new models or to those who are not familiar with how the company's pricing strategy works. After all, they were selling new Perfect Wave DACs at full price one week, then announced that it was being discontinued, then slashed the price on the remaining inventory massively. Be glad you weren't one of the last people to buy a new Perfect Wave MK2 at full list price. Yes, PS Audio makes some very good equipment -- especially if purchased at the "street" price rather than the retail price. But their pricing strategy seems designed to alienate |
I'm one of the original Bricasti M1 owners and one of their main guinea pigs.
Enjoy your new M1. Its an amazing DAC. It will break in fairly quickly. Just send signal through it for a week and you should be good. The key to maximizing the sound quality of the M1 is to experiment with the filter sets. The linear and minimum phase filters present very different characteristics. I lived with the original linear phase for some time and couldn't imagine the M1 sounding any better. The introduction of the minimum phase filters was a complete game changer. Now I could never go back to the linear phase filters. Others might hear things differently. Play with them and dial in the M1 to suit your taste. |
All good points but really this DAC was supposed to change the digital world. An outside the box design that no one can touch at under $20k. I really liked the DAC but the MKII was a $3999 not a $6k DAC and this DAC was supposed to really compete with the big boys and supposedly better most of them or I thought they said all of them, not sure I was to busy drinking the koolaid to pay that close attention.
So if this does settle at $3k which makes it then that means dealer cost would be somewhere around $1500 to $1800. That is why the Bricasti's of the world are not just better DACs they are built and operate on a different planet but I made the Mistake buying into all of PS Audio's marketing of 10 x DSD the 1 Bit the programmable gateway, actually thought then I maybe worried about liking it better than a Bricasti.
I mean in theory a super well designed and ground breaking $6k DAC maybe able to compete with a $9k DAC that uses off the shelf regular DAC chips right? I thought the DirectStream sounded great and also I was drinking the koolaid. I was so wrong the Bricasti is still breaking in so I still want to give it more time but guys I was caught up in all the hype. There isn't even remotely any competitiveness between these two DACs. I don't mean to sound course I really don't but this Bricasti to me has not just outperformed the DirectStream it has completely and utterly pulverized it to the point that it is embarrassing.
If the Bricasti is a $9k DAC and the DirectStream DAC is a $3k DAC then all I can say at this point is save your money and look for a used Bricasti that uses the same DAC chips as some other $500 DACs. I am embarrassed that I thought all that design 10 x DSD stuff mattered because it doesn't. Just spend 5 minutes listening to a Bricasti it will tell you that as it did for me...
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Fsmithjack,
Reading your comments highlights what's wrong with highend. I compared the M1 two days ago to a directstream in my friends system. Yes, the M1 is better, but to my ears to say now that the Directstream is a piece a junk is laughable. I submit audiophiles exaggerate small differences to make themselves feel superior. The Directstream DAC is very good and as good as the M1 is, I guarantee there are better. |
Ricred1 - Would you please share more about which other DACs you find superior to the M1 and in what ways? TIA! |
If you read my comments, I didn't say a particular DAC was better. My point was this is all subjective and no matter how good we submit something is, there is always better. The most recent DAC I listened to was the Esoteric. I didn't compare it to anything, so what's your point? |
