Biwiring make any sense?

Those of you who say "if the speaker is set up properly for it", do you realize that on a circuit diagram biwire looks exactly like single wire?

@phusis ... but ultimately I prefer using similar amps top to bottom actively (class A/B solid state as is), which is to say all the way down into the subs region to aid overall coherency and tonal imprinting.

Tonality is very much founded in conjunction with the lower octaves, the extent of which actually surprised me, and the problem with shifts in tonal balance using different amps is potentially exacerbated with a combination of very different amp topologies/principles...

I completely agree if we are discussing vertical bi-amping, where one amp powers one speaker and the second amp powers the other; in this case, the amps would need to be matched to achieve the best performance.

In my case of horizontal bi-amping, which I believe is the context here, I was fortunate that the low-wattage class A amp I use for the tweeters has good synergy with the speakers. Although the class A amp lacks gain control, both the class A/B and D amps I’ve used for the woofers have gain controls, allowing me to fine-tune the loudness until tonal balance between the high and low ends is achieved. I’m pleased with the sound, though I believe this experience might be dependent on the specific speakers and amplifiers used, making it difficult to generalize.

The only thing a designer could do to facilitate his speakers being bewired would be to have a switch disabling internal jumpers.  As far as a circuit diagram would be concerned that wouldn't make any difference, just a physical connectivity difference.  Considering the jumper mechanism that "might" make some  sonic difference.  Does that make any sense?

Maybe it has something to do with fields generated by different frequencies over a longer distance, which are usually 6-8' .

I thought this got beaten to death on some thread in the past.

Your speaker is a non-linear impedance/resistance and the cable also has resistance. Even when you apply a linear voltage to a driver, the current flow is nonlinear as a result.

By biwiring, you are moving the true ground point directly to the amplifier from the speaker’s negative terminal. You remove the inter-driver non-linearity/cross contamination (back and forth) that occurs through the crossover between the different drivers (tweeter, woofer, etc) mentioned above.

Maybe, if you had some crappy speaker with a single full range driver, it doesn’t matter (not applicable). On a regular speaker with multiple drivers, it does matter though the audibility impact of biwiring can vary due to the driver and crossover design.

Low info dudes may claim bi-wiring does nothing. Truth is...it actually does something...that you may or may hear. If you didn’t hear it, great for you.... don’t bi-wire and do whatever, save yourself the cash for an extra cable. Return the extra cable and get your money back.

Good luck.

I have Vandersteens also..,.I bi-wire, bi-amp and have everything in balanced mode.

For those wizards who think they know everything...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=908BWw1Bx4U

Great video I do like gr research. He does good work. He did mention feedback in the amp. Would like to hear capitan involved.enjoy the music and the experiments.

Biwiring can change the load on the crossover components and change the phase characteristics of the speaker. Biwiring sounds cleaner, essentially - IF the speakers are designed to take advantage of it. Vandersteen 2 is but one example.

Most wire is cheap. Get a roll of standard speaker wire at Best Buy or Walmart and experiment. If you don't hear a difference, what did you lose - maybe $25?

The KEF R7 Metas I am looking at have a switch to select for biwiring versus not. One would assume this would mean some crossover compatibility or at least negating the jumpers but I really don’t have any good way of knowing. I have two cable sets (Clear Day) so I can run a comparison without buying anything new.

Wilson Audio for one, doesn’t allow bi-wiring/bi-amping, having just one set of speaker terminals. They must not think it helps. 

@lanx0003 wrote:

I completely agree if we are discussing vertical bi-amping, where one amp powers one speaker and the second amp powers the other; in this case, the amps would need to be matched to achieve the best performance.

Of course, with vertical bi-amping you need similar amps so not to have different amps on the left and right channel - with all that could entail.

In my case of horizontal bi-amping, which I believe is the context here, I was fortunate that the low-wattage class A amp I use for the tweeters has good synergy with the speakers. Although the class A amp lacks gain control, both the class A/B and D amps I’ve used for the woofers have gain controls, allowing me to fine-tune the loudness until tonal balance between the high and low ends is achieved. I’m pleased with the sound, though I believe this experience might be dependent on the specific speakers and amplifiers used, making it difficult to generalize.

That’s the opportunity offered with horizontal bi-amping, yes - i.e.: using different amps for each left and right channel driver section - and as you’ve found out it can lead to desirable results. In your configuration, passively, it may also be the most if not the only sensible approach as there’s little to gain just by doubling up on the same amp here.

If you're configuring outboard actively, however, like in my case, you’re bound to use the number of amplifier channels that corresponds with the number of individual driver sections per channel, and this can be done either vertically using similar amps per channel section (necessitated), or horizontally with similar or different amps (optionally). As your recently supplied video shows, this is where the real benefits of bi-amping occurs, on top of the advantage of active config. by coupling each amplifier channel directly to its driver section - sans intervening passive crossover between the amp and driver(s).

Outboard actively my point is this: just because you can use different amps horizontally over each driver section it’s not to say you necessarily should. In fact, I’d argue you shouldn’t for the reasons mentioned in my earlier post, although I’m fully aware very good results can be had with a differentiated amp approach that is (to the ears of the specific listener) a sonically tailormade match to the respective driver section. Whatever floats one’s boat.

Of course what I’m advocating means finding an amp that’s both sonically adept on up as well as sufficiently powerful/handling down low, which shouldn’t be too hard, especially if you have efficient speakers and potentially subs. Then it’s just a matter of multiplying into the number of amps required, and you’ll have the benefit of the same amplifier imprinting top to bottom. To my ears, this is not trivial.

What about the excess power then to the top end since the max. and much higher power requirement is dictated by the lows? Yeah, what about it - does it hurt? Of course not, you’ll just have loads of headroom and an amplifier that’s relieved of the low end to boot, which means it’s cruising along effortlessly with ultra low distortion. If you could power differentiate with basically the same amplifier, by all means go ahead and do it, but be mindful that it may lead to slight sonic variations that may or may not be of significance.

I have always opened up the terminal cover and soldered the wires from the crossover to the lower pair of binding posts. Beats a $10000 pair of biwire links.

Always replace factory solid metal jumpers with high quality wire.  I use Cardas Clear jumpers.  Not inexpensive, but much less than biwiring.  May be all you need.

I run biwire and shot gun and it’s obvious to me it’s better. Nothing makes sense in this hobby anyway so why would biwire. Maybe it’s system dependent. Sounds good without biwire too, just different.