+1 for the GEM PolyTable.
Best TT under $1k
I’m looking to get into vinyl but don’t really no where to begin. I’ve been doing ample research on what TT to buy but am seeking the opinions of the A-gon community. I’m looking to spend under a grand, $750 if I can get away with it. (new or used)
Some units that I’ve looked at online:
Pro-Ject Debut Carbon DC Esprit SB Turntable – $599
Rega Planar 2 Turntable – $675
VPI Cliffwood Turntable – $900
Rega Planar 3 Turntable – $945
Technics SL-1200MK2
Criteria in order of importance:
- Sound quality
- Must include cart
- Excellent build quality
- Upgrade-able. Usable now but can upgrade down the road.
- Easy to setup/ use/ maintain
Thanks,
Joe
34 responses Add your response
My opinions and observations... The AR-ES was stock, including a stock arm. The regas were beaten using both a Shure V15/IV and an Audioquest 404. As I recall the AR-ES arm needed some blue damping material in the headshell for both carts and more mass for the 404. The regas never came in. That's apples to apples. But let's compare a couple of stock rega tables to other stock tables at their price points.... A stock Rega RP8 to a stock Clearaudio Performance, stock VPI Prime/3D arm or stock VPI Classic 3. Does the RP8 belong anywhere but a DISTANT 4th place against these truly excellent tables? Stock RP6 to a stock Clearaudio Concept, stock VPI Classic or stock VPI Prime Scout. RP6 in 4th place against these fine tables? I have moved on several times since the AR. The AR-ES with that Shure V15/IV is on "long-term load" to a friend who loves it in his system for over 20 years. I donated the 404 to another forum member in need of a cartridge. I do try to remember to open and close most of my comments with the statement "My opinion" or something similar. Sorry you have that kind of problem with the AR-ES arm. But as someone else criticized me for only using three regas to form my opinion, a single arm is not a very good sampling to form a final opinion. Maybe you had a particularly bad arm. Maybe I was just lucky. Who knows. Like you said, your mileage won't vary. Good for you. Mine won't either. That gives us the opportunity to agree to disagree since we are expressing OPINIONS. That's my opinion. |
Bpoletti Did/are you running that AR ES1 turntable with the stock AR tomearm? I owned that table a long time ago with the stock arm and that table absolutely stunk with that arm. I also owned the Rega RP-6, completely stock and it ran all over that AR turntable. If your AR turntable beat the Rega, I would be almost certain you put a higher quality arm on it. AND probably one that cost more than the 'table itself. Let's compare apples to apples and go completely stock on both AR and Rega, and I will guarantee you the Rega will be better. My mileage on this won't vary, it is spot on..... |
Awhile back, I was thinking about either selling my upgraded Rega P5 or continue to add mods to it and even posted a thread here on AudiogoN asking opinions/suggestions on which way to go. I`ve added a number of upgrades since and I`m no longer looking to sell at the moment. In car terms, if my stock Rega P5 was a Big Block Chevy 454" the current version is like a 540" and now the only thing that originally came from GM is just the block. So it`s not really a Chevy motor anymore but what a massive improvement in performance ! Same thing now goes for my P5, about the only thing left that`s Rega is the plinth/motor with the upgraded Rega TTPSU. It`s technically no longer a Rega but who cares..it`s been fun building it little by little and hearing what each addition 'brings to the table'...pun totally intended :) Doing it that way, made for a nice learning experience and each step showed improvement. Some subtle, some NOT ! In it`s current form I`d put it up against a VPI or Rega RP8/10 though I`ve heard neither :) In short....The Rega tables have a great aftermarket upgrade path that will allow you to move up at your own pace and enjoy each step of the way. |
“Once burned, shame on you. Twice burned, shame on me.” At least you did better than George Bush! No one expects you to sample every table Rega makes. But to make such derogatory comments like “ I’ll take my chances on REAL (my caps) tables” when your experience has been somewhat limited, seems to me excessive and unfair. Many vinyl enthusiasts try different tables, some to their liking, some not. But I’ve rarely seen someone denigrate a whole company and its products with the fervor that you have. Thanks anyway for “softening” your opinions though I think comments like the above do not exactly qualify! |
@elubow - My opinion. Once burned, shame on you. Twice burned, shame on me. Three times burned without any success is a significant enough sampling for me. rega? Never again.. I've had three VPI tables and two AR tables that all worked and sounded great right out of the box. Nothing to send back. All five outperformed the rega tables significantly. I'm not about to start going through a large sampling of rega tables just to find one that sounds as good as an AR. I'll take my chances on real turntables and enjoy the music without figuring out shipping options to return yet another poor-performing rega table. And my comments and opinions have been significantly softened for this thread. But that's just me. If your experience has been wonderful, then good for you. |
I too vote for the Pioneer PLX-1000 with some mods. Which is what I did and now I'm cartridge rolling. Currently using ML440b and looking to get AT150MLX. Very good TT for the money and it's kinda cool to look at the old look and the eye candy lights..... Change the footers, Funkfirm mat, record clamp or weight, KAB tonearm mod (later down the road). |
The only thing I dislike about Rega is the stock arm. No VTA adjustment. If you end up wanting to experiment with different cartridges later on (which you will) it's a pain to get them to sing without VTA adjustment. Normally when I install a new cartridge it will take about 2 or 3 weeks to fine tune the VTA and make it sound its best. |
Have you read this review on the Pioneer? https://www.stereophile.com/content/gramophone-dreams-4-page-2 I usually don't care for his reviews but that one is accurate IME, having myself compared a 1200MkII with a PLX. I personally think the latter feels more substantial in overall build. One big advantage of the PLX is detachable phono cables. Some owners have reported loose tonearm bearings on their PLX, but that's a fairly easy adjustment with some patience. If you go the route of having the dealer install your cartridge, just request they give the whole tonearm assembly a thorough inspection prior to shipment. Good news is the KAB Acoustics tonearm damper also fits the PLX tonearm - that, aftermarket headshells, phono cables, and Isonoe feet give you a path for future upgrades: https://www.kabusa.com/td1200.htm https://www.turntablelab.com/products/isonoe-isolation-system-turntable-feet-4-units |
@bpoletti “ I was told that to make a Rega perform, you have to add a lot of tweaks...” That is simply untrue. The Regas I’ve had sounded great out of the box. True, certain tweaks may have enhanced performance, but this can be true of many tables. From your post, it seems your experience with Regas was quite minimal. You had a few things go wrong and gave up citing “cheap parts, poor access, and substandard performance.” My annoyance with your original post has little to do with the fact that you can’t stand Regas. You’re free to choose whatever table makes you happy. It’s the fact that you seem to go out of your way to denigrate them, leaving quite a few annoyed Rega owners in your wake. And after portraying Regas in the most derogatory terms, you kindly add “YMMV.” Thanks for that. And, by the way, you’re not quite as funny as you used to be in your criticism. I found this quote of yours from The Vinyl Asylum: “A rega arm does an excellent job roasting marshmellows. They slide right off the headshell. No other arm performs that well roasting marshmellows. Other arms are better relegated to the mundane task of helping to reproduce music, a characteristic mostly lacking from Rega products. “ That, I have to admit, was pretty funny. But you may want to learn the correct spelling of marshmAllows before your next helpful ROASTING about Regas. |
The Pioneer PLX-1000 is a good deck. Any decent table will play fine as long as it is reasonably isolated and you make a good match with the cartridge. The cart resonance tool at Vinyl Engine is great for making sure you cart and tonearm are a good match. https://www.vinylengine.com/cartridge_resonance_evaluator.php Next big step is cables and phono preamp. Cables from the preamp to amp don’t matter as much but from table to pre, you want to keep the capacitance low. Blue Jeans LC-1’s are cheap and effective. There are a bunch of great entry level phono pre’s under $500 now if you want to go in that direction at some point. (Lounge LCR is my fav for the money... Sutherland for higher end... vintage for fun) As long as you get a good match with your tonearm, you should be really happy with that table for most systems at that price point. In a year or two if you are thinking of moving up the range there’s lots to choose from under $2k (my recommendation is the GEM PolyTable http://www.hifigem.com/polytable.html) Have fun! |
this Pioneer Pl-61 is an excellent table to start out with. get a new cartridge (a Ortophon 2M blue for around $225) for this and you will be set for for a while. https://www.ebay.com/itm/PIONEER-PL-61-Record-player-Turntable-beautiful-cabinet-vintage/18342857414... |
Thanks so much for all of your replies. I'm leaning toward @helomech's suggestion of the Pioneer PLX-1000 with the Audio-Technica VM540ML cartridge. I know it's not the most important consideration (perhaps not a consideration at all for some folks), but I love the old school look of the mk1200 and the plx-1000 is its successor. I want to make an immediate purchase and most of the VPI HW-19's available right now seem to have missing parts or need work. There also seems to be a preference for buying vintage. While I love the idea - given my current knowledge of TT's - it doesn't seem practical. I know the Rega RP6 got several votes, but it is a little out of my price range. Any other love for the Pioneer? |
A Yamaha PF-800 or PF-1000 is another excellent choice. I like them so much I have 3. Yes... I will be listing my spare soon (probably this weekend). They were meant to compete with Linn LP12's when they were produced in the 80's. Excellent belt drive. It's Japanese sibling is the direct drive GT2000. One of the best DD ever made. Easy to find Japan...next to impossible anywhere else. |
Except for their arms, I consider the design of Regas poor. I don't like the resonant MDF plinth, the motor attached directly to it, the plastic sub-platter, the glass platter, or the inability to adjust even arm height. I would much rather have an AR ES-1, which can be picked up for peanuts. The reason you see the VPI HW-19 recommended so often is because it's an excellent design, is built great (they last forever), and is a superb platform for whatever arm you want to mount on it. A Mk.2 or 3 can be found for less than a Rega, and is imo a far better table. But turntables seem to be a very personal thing, like loudspeakers. Everyone has to decide what kind of design meets their taste, expectations, and preferences. |
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@elibow - You asked.... I have had a particularly bad experience with a couple of rega tables. Cheap parts, poor qc, substandard performance. Silk purse / sow's ear. The ONLY redeeming quality I found was that it was fairly easy to set up because it couldn't be adjusted to improve performance. Was even GIVEN one that I took back to the dealer. All were easily bettered by both my AR-ES and VPI HW-19/III. And the VPI was using a Linn Basik LVX with a defective counterweight buffer / damper. I was told that to make a rega perform, it was necessary to add a lot of tweaks, options and modifications. So what's the point of even getting a rega table if it doesn't sound good anyway out of the box and requires a lot of mods. So in my experienced opinion, rega tables are not worth the box used to pack them. But YMMV.. YRMV. |
@bpoletti With all due respect, I question your poor opinion of Rega turntables. No matter what website, you never lose an opportunity to dump on Regas. Clearly you’ve had a bad experience with Regas but how many Regas have you actually owned? Your derogatory posts would lead one to indicate you’re an expert on the subject, that you’ve owned or heard every table they make. I’d love to know what Regas you’ve owned and what you felt was wrong with them, perhaps a P1, P3, P6, RP8, RP10? None of the above? I have owned two Regas, the RP 25 and the RP6. I thought both were excellent tables, easy to set up and dependable with excellent sound. In fact, I sold a $10,000 Raven One table because I found the sound no better than my RP6. Regas would not be one of the best selling and well reviewed tables if users were consistently dissatisfied. Would love to hear your experience ( and that of your entire family and friends ) about the many Regas you’ve owned. |
After owning a few different tables, I bought a very clean, used sl1200 mk2 from a buddy for $250. None of my previous tables were very high end, but some were decent. Rega P2, other somewhat vintage tables. I always seemed to work hard and worried that alignment was off, and was forever fooling with protractors. After getting the 1200, I bought an overhang gauge, installed a $100 AT cartridge, and have been playing lps (without stress) for years. It’s nice that I can also adjust VTA on the fly. The 1200 was the perfect match for me. Different strokes, of course. Kind regards- gary |
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I wouldn’t let the inclusion of a cartidge dictate your purchase. If you want a very good NIB table with warranty, the Pioneer PLX-1000 is the best value by a country mile. Order it from somewhere like Needle Doctor or Music Direct and ask them to install a cartridge like the https://www.needledoctor.com/Audio-Technica-VM540ML-Phono-Cartridge Keep in mind that your analog system will need a phono preamp unless your receiver or integrated (or separate line stage preamp) already has one built-in. I’d go with the Mo-Fi Studio Phono at $250. This would put you a little over budget at MSR prices, but most dealers will gladly grant a 10% discount simply for asking. Tell Needle Doctor you’d like the whole package for $1K. That would yield a very respectable starter system IMO and provide a path to support should you run into any problems. |
+1 chackster, OP not going to get all the priorities listed for less than a grand. I agree with chackster a used vintage DD in good shape will perform better than a cheap BD new. I still use my vintage 76 Sony PS4300 DD to compare with my VPI and although 40 years old it still satisfies. Both get playtime. |
Get yourself a used japanese Direct Drive instead of those cheap belt drive nonsense. The reason why they are relatively cheap is the belt drive. Used Technics is still cheap just because Matsishita made millions of them. But a good Direct Drive motor ain’t cheap. My advice is to expand the budged to $1700 for new Technics SL1200GR or vintage classics like Luxman PD-441, Denon DP-80, Victor TT-81 etc. |
My opinion... Technics and VPI at the top Pro-Ject I would place the regas at the bottom of the list / table of last resort. But that's just me (and ALL my family, friends and acquaintances). A used HW-19/III would be a very good and IMO better performer than any on the list. Might find one with a nice arm in your price range. |
you've listed all the good ones in that price range so get out there and have a listen and make a choice. your not going to get a lot of upgradability in that price range but a little. I'd go to the higher end of your range as they will give you more for the money then the lower end ones. the planar 3, VPI and Technic's are great tables for the money. made by long term table manufacturers and will hold their value. |
