You would have to ask Sam. I have their brand new DAC built in. He customizes them all, so it's best to ask him. I will say that if you use his newest built in DAC, the price is incredible considering what you get. He's been as good to work with as Steve Nugent is at Empirical Audio. Both make GREAT products and are great guys to boot. They actually care adn have pride.
Best standalone music server?
So I am considering dipping my toes into the full digital world and was wondering what people here may consider as the best standalone music server, and here I am going to be specific.
I do not want to consider a home pc or mac based type of system at all!
Looking at adding one of the standalone models like for example the Wyred4sound ms1 or cocktail audio.
High on my list is ability to rip my cds directly at the unit itself, access to internet radio and other music apps (Pandora etc). High quality built in dac would be nice but if not then high quality digital out to run to an external dac. I will not be needing to access music files stored on another pc as my home pc is pretty old but fully functional for my simple needs. The only music looking to access from it right now are ripped cds and internet available music in whatever form.
So if it worked out well, yes it may be a replacement even for a cd player completely
Thank you
I do not want to consider a home pc or mac based type of system at all!
Looking at adding one of the standalone models like for example the Wyred4sound ms1 or cocktail audio.
High on my list is ability to rip my cds directly at the unit itself, access to internet radio and other music apps (Pandora etc). High quality built in dac would be nice but if not then high quality digital out to run to an external dac. I will not be needing to access music files stored on another pc as my home pc is pretty old but fully functional for my simple needs. The only music looking to access from it right now are ripped cds and internet available music in whatever form.
So if it worked out well, yes it may be a replacement even for a cd player completely
Thank you
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It's starting to burn in and it's getting better. The built in DAC (brand new design and first one they have made) is much better than I expected. The DAC alone may end up being one of the top couple that I"ve ever heard (I've heard nearly all the uber high end DAC's on the market in the US). I'm playing mostly WAV and all 24/192 and 32/384 music. It's not even where it's going to be as it's so new and needs a lot of burn in. This thing is sick good though. Blows away the Aurender N10 that I've had in the house in the past. |
https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lis96ade-cocktail-audio-x30-music-server-streamer-dac-amp-new-in-b... Cocktail X30 is on sale at 750$ including shipping. It is hard to beat the value. I had used X12 for 4 years with no problem at all. |
I got the MP two days ago. I waited for a long time as they designed and built a brand new DAC for it. It's a tubed DAC. All the music on it is 24/192 or 32/384 that was directly off the master tapes. HOLY COW. it's not even burned in yet.....or even close. They have a few settings with different jitter rates. Some may like more jitter as that's why they are used to, but without knowing which slot he was using, it was only one for me adn that's the lowest jitter and all the goodies (the most stealth mode). It's already better than any server I've had in the house and that includes the top Vault that a friend brought over as well as the N10 or W20. Sorry for not posting much, but I've been so busy. I"ll try to keep you all up as it burns in. I want over 500 hours on it before I talk too much about it. |
Well 18 months in and still have no desire to replace the Vault whatsoever. In fact some of the latest updates by Bluesound which all happen over the internet without me having to do anything bar click "yes", have increased its usefulness even more. For example when I first bought it the usb port out back was purely for connecting an external drive to copy a backup of its internal drive to nothing more, it would NOT read music from an external usb drive at all. Now it does and the flexibility when connected to my home network and this usb drive read facility is worth every dollar of its $1000 purchase. Add that to the ability to stream Tidal, Deezer, Quboz, Spotify, Radio Paradise etc. All at up to 24/192 into my Mytek Brooklyn dac letting it handle the full MQA unfolding. Oh and it contains my complete library of cds. One happy camper here for such a minimal outlay of dollars. Long may it reign in my system! |
Not sure why my post was removed today after being on there since April. It was a very positive post about Lumin and Aurender. I then mentioned The Memory Player, that a few of us have gotten as being the best we've heard (Matt who has the longest running DAC thread on AG has one and has talked about how great it is). Not a commercial for it, just stating that it's such a small company and many haven't heard of it, but if you want the top server, it really should be in that mix. Please let me know what was wrong with that post as I missed something. Thanks. |
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The owner of Lumin is a HUGE audiophile. Not all companies are owned or run by someone who's into the hobby. For you money, The Memory Player and it's less expensive server that I posted about above are the top ones, but Aurender and Lumin are outstanding and great values in their price ranges. glad you like it. |
Just got a Lumin U1 and extremely happy with it. For years I used a Logitech (Slim Devices) Transporter. Was always pretty happy with that, but it started showing it’s age once Logi abandoned it, and getting things done through the user forums was excruciating. The U1 to me sounds far better, and seems a far better built device. I guess it should be at around 4x the $. Far as ripping, use a laptop and EAC with AccurateRip. I don't want ripping technology anywhere near my playback sound chain. |
I have not had those problems with my setup. But as you stated YMMV and my home wifi network has not dropped out. When I had an analog rig, could never get used to those pops and clicks even with a good vinyl cleaning. With digital, my audio has never been so black silent when there is no signal. I guess when it comes to unwanted noise, we all have to pick our poison. |
Guys, be careful. Most of the AC access wifi points will add a lot of noise to the signal that you can't get out even by optical isolation that I'm using as does my Ayre QX5 on it's ethernet connection. There just isn't any way to get around it. Even on modest systems like the Bluesound is, the interference is there and can be heard. There is no doubt that an ethernet connection is best, but personally, I'd stick with wifi over the AC access point set up if you can't get a direct ethernet connection. (and yes, I have tried three different AC access systems to try them out and hated them all). What I have now done is purchased the EROS router mk3 I believe it is, that has two ethernet connections built in. I use an optical isolation system, but even without it, I didn't get any extra noise (I was running a very long cable from my other router to check this out), but without the isolation the soundstage will always be a bit smaller and the noise floor is higher. I've also found that using better power cords on the router has made a fair difference. YMMV. |
rlb61- There so many ways to go with a digital library of music. As mentioned Aurender, Wyred4sound, Bluesound, Cocktail Audio make streaming devices and allow access to digital storage files. So does Sony, NAD, Cambridge Audio, Auralic and many others. For streaming services there is Tidal, Pandora, Spotify, Apple music, Amazon music and also many others. WiFi access in one’s home can be tricky, you may want to test this first. Some have reported that ethernet has been much more reliable than WiFi n the home. I also added an AC access point that I can plug the ethernet into! Works great! Let us know what you want to do EXACTLY. Make your own thread. |
uberwaltz- Is your Lyngdorf a MQA enabled device? I believe the Bluesound Vault 2 will only send the digital signal for full unfolding to 192 res if the receiving DAC is MQA capable and you have set the Vault 2 to do so. If you send the fully unfolded MQA from the Vault 2 out of it’s analog output you will get the full resolution. “Bluesound Players are a full MQA playback solution. They will decode and render MQA playback up to 24/192. If however you are connecting an external DAC, the maximum output will be 24/96 and MQA processing is not happening in the DAC. If you have an external DAC that is certified by MQA, you may bypass Bluesound's MQA rendering process in the Bluesound NODE 2 or VAULT 2 and send the pure untouched music bits directly via TOSLink Optical or Digital COAX output for processing by your external DAC.
The Bluesound NODE 2 and VAULT 2 will now bypass MQA processing.” |
A question for those much more knowledgeable than myself. I stream Tidal through my Vault to my Lyngdorf via digital coax. Now under info on the Lyngdorf it says max of 96k even if it is supposed to be a 192k MQA file. Is this because digital coax is limited to 96k max? If so would I get full 192k using the vaults analog outputs instead? |
If you want a great digital transport that has similar features that their 35k server, streamer has, plus can run Roon and playback up to 8X DSD or 768 khz PCM check this out: List is $4995, but I'm sure they can work with you. It's sick good with all the software upgrades they keep on doing, so you will have a player that can be upgraded as you keep owning it, which is invaluable for digital as we all know. The thing I like best is that they can remotely set it up and download the software for you when upgrades come out. No need to have to know computers to set it up, keep it running etc... That was key to me. The Memory Player Mini MK-2 now includes our automatic memory-loading software, delivering the best sonics in a smaller size and affordable price.
The Mini can include storage of your choice, with external drives (USB or HDMI) or a networked drive (NAS).
As Digital Transport with USB, SPDIF, HDMI and Toslink connections, the Mini incorporates all of our world-class patented jitter reduction software, including:
Optimized solid state storage (USB drive) can be added upon request. The Mini MK-2 is bundled with JRiver 23 pre-optimized for the best playback, and now features our automatic memory-loading software. No more manually moving music to Memory!
Our patented technology is largely player independent and can run effectively with Roon, ITunes, HQ Signalyst, Foobar or any other player of your choice.*
The Mini is built upon an Intel-based mini PC platform. The Mini is also fully compatible with our Octuple DSD (DSD512, 22,5792 MHz) and 768 kHz PCM capable DAC which will connect to the MP Mini along with our DC power filtering and regeneration power products.
* When additional software is added, the Clock Mapper will need to be re-synchronized. https://www.thememoryplayer.net/the-mini |
Rob One of the reasons I am still happy with the Vault is Tidal $20 a month for their hifi service gives MQA at up to 192 speed, yes the whole MQA arguement is raging hard elsewhere but I know what I hear in my system and that is better sq that redbook! I prefer the digital out from the Vault compared to its analog outs which sound a little soft and flabby imho. For about $1000 the Vault is hard to beat and its simplicity is half of its appeal to me, I am sure there are better solutions out there but for me it was/is near perfect. Does not hurt that I can listen to any cd form my collection without getting my backside out of my chair either...lol |
Heres a new guy question: Can my sonos play Hi Res (above CD bit rate) if it goes into an upsampling dac? Seems that it would be limited by the sonos, but what if it has modifications that allow 24/96, or DSD, or MQA? Chromecast looks interesting and cost effective- which app does 24/96? Uberrwaltz- Bluesound may be my solution to streaming. I will probably wait until Axpona to see what the rooms are using, but I want to have a few products to keep an eye out for. Blue sound will definitely be one. I want simplicity, much like you, and of course I want high fidelity as this is for my main rig. |
If you alreay have a good DAC with optical input, why not try a Chromecast Audio (and its digital ouput)? There are apps for Spotify, Qobuz, TuneIn and many other services. You can also access your computer’s drive/NAS with BubbleUPnP. It will do files up to 24/96. See here for measurements: http://archimago.blogspot.nl/2016/02/measurements-google-chromecast-audio_27.html |
I already have a preamp and dac. Just looking for a great sounding, easy to use streamer. CD ripping is a +, but I have a CD player so it is not entirely necessary. Most streamers have volume knobs=equals extra noise=lower sound quality (I could be wrong). I want to keep the music signal chain as fee as possible from any extra decoding, artifacts, or noise. Probably not interested in anything over 3-4 thousand used or new. Aurender (most use HDD memory instead of SDD- good or bad?) Wyred 4 Sound Nucleus+ Blue sound products others? I just want to mention that this forum has been very helpful in educating me on the scary world of digital streaming. Thank you everyone. |
Is it a digital volume control or analog? My Ayre has one of the best sounding volume controls I've ever heard in digital and I would never use it. My The Memory Player will have, what is called, the best digital volume control made as they do some upsampling deal so that you will never lose bits (digital volume controls must be at 100% or you will lose some of the music and yes you can hear it on a good system. I need to audition TMP's control, but I"m not holding out any hope. You mostly lose dynamics when not using a good preamp. |
Well, I've decided to sell my Mac mini that is a total rebuild by Steve Nugent of Empirical Audio. It was his personal unit that he filled with well recorded wav files. Many high res, that he brought to shows to show off his Overdrive DAC. I'm using the hard to get Paul Hynes LPS. It's a great server. I"m running Amarra right now, but it can run anything that a Mac can use. The reason for this is that I'm getting a new The Memory Player with built in DAC (guess I"m selling the Ayre QX5 DAC/streamer now also, lol). My friend has auditioned every server on the market other than a couple of the new ones that are yet to be released. It beat the Aurender N10 which is the best server I've heard until this new unit. I have loved the Empirical Mac mini, as I was able to rip songs for my portable DAP and I ripped some of my music onto the internal SSD wiht the built in drive. What I have learned that the Mac needs is the proper hard drive and the best LPS you can get to allow it to be a true high end server that can be used with even ultra high end systems. I took the server to a friends house. He runs a pair of Vandersteen 2's, NAD separates and an Codex DAC/headphone amp with inexpensive Audioquest cables. A fairly modest system I think. My server woke the system up big time. We were shocked at how low the noise floor was and that allowed so much more detail to come out. He has the Bluesound system right now. He was also able to use the Vault to play his own music through the Mac. Since I don't love the look of the Mac and external supply, I put it in the cabinet that has doors on it and just use the TV screen to remotely control it, lol. I just never put it on the net as Steve has turned off everything but Bluetooth and that includes all teh programs that aren't needed for music as they all affect teh sound quality. |
Here is another idea. If you like it fine, if not okay too. I had bought a Bluesound Node 2 to add to my stereo. I already had a quality CD player and many, many CDs. So I wanted to rip all my CDs to a NAS to play via the Node 2 AND stream music via Spotify and Tidal. After many hours of ripping my CDs and tagging album artwork.... I started listening to an ever growing streamed library of music, much of which were the same albums I owned on CD. When I started listening to MQA I was really impressed by the sound. I questioned WHY I had ripped my CD collection in the first place. When I have a CD player to use when i want to listen to MY MUSIC, why not just stream music when I am not???? The Bluesound Node 2 sounds truly fantastic, but if you MUST rip your CDs.... get the Vault 2. |
Would really be interested in hearing from folks who have used a Mac mini as a server running Roon via Ethernet into a high'ish end renderer like the SOtM triple set and then USB from the SOtM to a good DAC, and compared that to a high end server/player like the Antipodes DX. I own both server/player units (i.e., a mini and the DX) so I really want to hear about whether the mini into the SOtM stuff can equal the DX. Another option would be to run the DX as a server with Roon into the SOtM triple set via Ethernet. Does using the SOtM triple set negate the differences between the mini and the DX? |
The Node 2 is a great overachiever that I have really enjoyed. I later chose a sonicTransporter i7 for storage and Roon core and added a Naim Uniti for Roon player/DAC/integrated amp. But I keep the Node 2 as my “radio” given its wider range of streaming service choices which I will try down the road. The free Tunein service is a nice background music option for me. |
The Node 2 is a great overachiever that I have really enjoyed. I later chose a sonicTransporter i7 for storage and Roon core and added a Naim Uniti for Roon player/DAC/integrated amp. But I keep the Node 2 as my “radio” given its wider range of streaming service choices which I will try down the road. The free Tunein service is a nice background music option for me. |
Finally I may have found a chink in the Bluesound Vault 2 armour! Unless I am missing something and hopefully fellow Vault owners can help out. For the first time today I decided to try and connect up my tv toslink output to the Vault via the supplied mini jack to toslink adapter. At first I thought I had done something wrong as at my seating position I heard nothing, I got up to check the connection and I heard Antman singing in my speaker! I had to turn the volume up on the Hegel from a normal 42 for my Vault to about 87 before it had anywhere near the same volume level. The same cable/output from the tv fed into the Hegel dac only needs about 45 on the volume to have the same actual room volume. So am I missing something in the vault setup for the toslink input volume or has anybody else found this is exactly the case and it is what it is? |
But not in the price points that the folks in this thread are talking about. Plenty of great servers on the market from Melco to Aurender to Antipodes to Lumin to CAD to custom made to one of the most under rated, The Music Vault by Neil Van Berg (I personally don't like all of them). What kind of US support does the Zenith have? I don't know much about the company. I visited their site, but not much about the US there. |
I have just started using an Innuos Zenith. This is a UK/Portugese Server and certainly very keenly priced, here in the UK. It should be good in the US, with the current $/£ exchange rate. It has recently become available over the pond, I believe. Here it is a good bit cheaper than Melco or Aurender and has a ripping port, excellent support and is very easy to use. I had been using a heavily modified Mac Mini, which took me weeks to get up and running, being not an IT wizard. The Innuos took a morning, with very good telephone support. I would'nt have needed any help at all, but for my Ayre QB9 DAC, refusing to speak to the Innuos. I don't know why, just bad manners I think. It comes in various versions, with HHD and SSD options, the Zenith is the SSD one. It contains a ripping port and the whole process of ripping, backing up etc, is simple. There is an option to check metadata before ripping and adding a photo if none is available on Metadata. Even out of the box, no warm up, it is way ahead of the Mac Mini, crisp detailed sound, great dynamics and soundstage. All in all, highly recommended. |
Forgive my technical inexperience but I’m in a similar position. I have a modest system with: -Yamaha 1060 AVR (used as preamp w/HT ability) -Parasound A23 Halo I want to add Rune and a have a something that can manage my digital content either Tidal/Spotify or MP3s. My Yamaha AVR can handle streaming services but not Tidal yet AFAIK? I don’t need the ability to rip CDs as I have an external HD full of them and prefer the portability of having external HDs. Can I get a Bluesound Node 3 and connect my HD to it via USB and then connect it via digital coax to my AVR and have all I need to run Rune and manage everything? From what I understand the Node3 is just a Vault2 without the ability to rip and built-in storage? One other thing, for my MP3s to work on our iPhones/iPads I need my files in AIFF form not FLAC correct? As I get more MP3s, I want the best quality I can for our devices. Thanks for any advice or input. |
I looked for an all in one solution that i could rip my 500 plus CD's into, had the ability to stream MQA from Tidal etc and that could be combined with 'Roon' software...I went for the Bluesound Vault and could not be happier, it also streams to multiple airplay system's set-up in different rooms of the house. Obviously the Airplay quality is not as good as hires/mqa but it's fine for background music when needed. |
The words are too kind, but also realize that I'm just one person. Trust your ears, but when you learn to listen you can hear distortions that really do take away from the music. Many never get there and it's fairly easy to see when reading some posts on boards. NO big deal as long as they love their music Heck, I can spend a day listening to crappy recordings of 80's rock and have my ears killing me. Just love the music. What I may suggest to you eventually is to look into a Melco as a streamer/NAS and then get a nice DAC like a Codex or equivalent to your ears. Then you can more easily upgrade as you grow. You can then sell your Vault and only lose half, but half of that is less than half of an Aurender or Melco or whatever. One reason I like the Melco over the Aurender (other than I like the sound better) is because if you update your DAC to one that's say Roon end point and also a top streamer and headphone amp (Like the Ayre QX5 I just purchased), then you can still use the Melco as it's by far the best NAS I"ve heard and even Michael Lavorgna of Audiostream (I pray you are over there enjoying his writing) has said that and that's his job. Honestly, with what you have now, I wouldn't do anything else just yet. Get comfortable with it and learn to use it to it's fullest. Listen at times critically and see what you enjoy about the sound of it. You will soon notice trends in the sound on various cuts. Then you can learn what you DON'T want next time in any piece you get in your system. To me audio is just like the second wife (or more)....you need to know what you DON'T want, as you never fully know what you do want. Just think about that and take it for what it's worth. You can and probably will do other upgrades in your system before doing more with the source. Oh, and don't bother with other cables or power cords or anything right now. At the level you are at, it's so silly to spend even 100 for a power cord when you could spend that eventually in component upgrades that will make a much much bigger difference. JMHO |
@ctsooner As always your posts are refreshing and well thought out and always of interest to myself. I would say that on this venture I limited myself on how much I wanted to spend on the music server as it was my first foray, just like my very first amp cost a whole $25...lol. I am sure like the rest of the components that in time I will get the urge to explore and go higher both in quality and price, not that they always go hand in hand! But yes for now I have EXACTLY what I asked for and sound quality of ripped files and Tidal have surpassed my admitedly fairly low expectations. Only previous experience of digital was my daughters itunes and Pandora played through the smarttv connected by optical digital connection. And yes Juke, in my system I definitely noticed a huge difference going dig out of the vault instead of rca so if you did go with a vault I would not judge it entirely by its rca performance until you had opportunity to try the digital outputs. As of yet I have not tried the usb out bar for backing up the hard drive so no idea what the sound quality is like over the usb port. |
