I love Neil's products and he's a great guy to work with. Melco makes the best sounding NAS in the world and they you can easily hook up any optical drive to it to rip. It has the built in software to do so and it's a versatile unit. Can be stand along NAS to hold your music if you get a better server later, or you can just use it as a server with built in storage. I personally like the more detailed sound vs the Aurender and it's less money. It can be hooked up via ethernet (it's best sounding connection) or USB. It also have a USB hook up to load music onto an external HD for back up and you can also use an external HD or stick to play music through it that isn't on it's internal HD. Looks great, Buffalo computers builds the thing and its built very good.
It won't do Roon, but if you use it as a NAS and have a NUC for a few hundred on your network, you can still have Roon. Personally, I'm not sure Roon is worth the extra money if you are on a budget and want easy and the best sound. |
Flac may be the easiest to work with, however it's not necessarily the best sounding. Digital is funny in that it always depends on your unique situation. The problem I see in this thread is that you have posters who have systems from mi fi up to higher end hi fi. The more resolving your system the better your source better be. Someone mentioned poor recordings and that's a huge problem with hifi. There are many recordings that I love, but I will only stream them when in the car. Not a big deal as there is so much much on Tidal that I never get bored.
As for streaming, Tidal is not the only service in town anymore. Spotify just announced they will go to a premium/CD quality and Pandora should be next. As for MQA, many folks just blindly say it's better than CD's or even high res, but that's not always the case. It completely depends on what you are playing it on. I'm still not 100% sold on it in my system and with my ears. I do like much of what it does. I was able to hear it a couple of years ago when Meridian reps had demo tracks and a local store I go to asked me to come audition. I was impressed, but I don't feel it sounds as good as most of my high res recordings and it's also not better than my redbook recordings that I have on a special file where I put the top recorded tracks/albums. The other thing is that you can't make a blanket statement about a DAC having MQA decoding as a better sounding DAC as one that won't have it.
Implementation is the most important part of a DAC. My Ayre QX5/Twenty so far has crushed all the MQA DAC's I've had in the house to listen to. Ayre uses minimal filtering as does Empirical Audio (my former DAC that I also liked better than the MQA DAC's I've had in. Do I think MQA will make it for the long haul? Not sure. I've been through everything from all kinds of tape to vinyl to CD to LaserDisc to the Betamax/VCR fights to mini discs to ............
There will always be new mediums and honestly there are enough big companies who don't want to pay licensing fees to the MQA folks, that it will hold them back a bit. I do like it on my Mac playing through my AudioQuest Dragonfly Red via my Noble Savant IEM's. I still need to get a jitterbug though, lol.
The Bluesound/NAD engineered products are outstanding for many of the systems folks posting on this thread have. It gives you a simple all in one and expandable solution. I have many of my friends who ask advice, getting them. The build and SQ are quite good for the price range and it will be MQA if it's not already.
I don't see CD's becoming like Vinyl. There is something totally different about vinyl and honestly, it still sounds better than CD's and you can get a cheap rig and decent cartridge and get sound that in digital you have to pay well over 3k total to equal. If you don't believe me, take a full day and go to a store that has high end gear. Set up a TT/Cart that retails for about 500. Then start playing the same album in digital on the most expensive set up they may have and truly listen. CD's certainly have less surface noise if you don't use a great record cleaner (I built an ultrasonic cleaner and I use the top AQ carbon brush and I have very very very little surface noise and nearly a pop when playing vinyl. I'm selling my vinyl rig and phono stage, cleaner and albums because I have MS and it's a bitch for me to get up to change sides, but I'm going to miss my vinyl and I do have a great sounding digital set up that's only getting better, but it's not cheap.
There are so many digital products that take care of one to all the functions from streaming to storing music to having a built in DAC to being wireless. Some concentrate more on the SQ and others on ease of use. If I had to put a great system together for a hifi rig that was a great value, I'd get a Codex DAC by Ayre (to my ears and many others the best value in digital at 1800 list), then I'd pair it with the small Melco used as a server/storage unit. I'd also get an optical drive to rip all CD's into the Melco as it has built in ripping software and it's a breeze to rip to it's internal drives. $3600 USD list. Then you need a nice AudioQuest USB cable as the Codex can't go ethernet, which I feel is the best output on the Melco. You are at 4000 list. Different countries will offer different choices too.
Those are my thoughts and I'm sure many will disagree. Fun thread and interesting to see what others around the world are enjoying. |
Someone asked how the DAC sounds in the Vault. That's impossible to answer. What DAC's is it going against and what are your system's limitations? On the systems that it will be playing on most of the time, the unit is outstanding for what it give you. Can you get a better stand alone DAC? Of course, but at what price point is the better question. I've gone to many stores around the country (US) and many use the Vault to serve their systems and that often includes their high end systems. Now most of the store owners don't understand digital if they do this (I promise you that most of the owners feel that folks don't honestly audition anyways and that if they are all getting fed the same signal, they will still sell their gear). Is it as good as a Codex? Not even on the same planet. That said, the Codex is balanced unit that has a balanced headphone amp and costs 1800. I've heard it against one of the Schitt units that lists for under 1k,but I don't remember which one and I felt the Vault 2 was right there and it has everything else with it that folks in this thread seem to want. I wouldn't use it for my main system, but I also have a pretty nice rig going, but I love putting systems together for folks starting off or upgrading. I think it is in great company with a pair of say Vandersteen 2c's an NAD integrated/separates and some inexpensive Audioquest cabling. Throw in a decent little turntable and you have an outstanding system that most folks would kill for. Would you listen and keep wondering if you should have gotten a better DAC? Of course you would as you are an audiophile. Just use your ears though and enjoy the music in MQA, streaming from Tidal and how easy it is to use with Roon. You'll be in heaven and loving what you hear for many a year.
JMHO...I also think it's a bargain, especially because it's also small and so easy to use. |
soundsrealaudio 177 posts 03-12-2017 11:01pm So not to be labor a point. The Melco has been rated Class A, big deal right? So it has 4Terabytes of storage plus as many external as you could want. Plus, and it is a big plus it has integrated software that is easy with a capital E to use. Is it as good as the Aurender, probably. It doesn't rip. Using AccurateRip technology you get the most exact CD importing. It even works with worn or damaged discs that might otherwise be unplayable. To rip grab the Buffalo BRXL-16U3 for CD ripping ion Melco Music Libraries for $159.00. Check it out. I dumped my computer, couldn't stand the beta versions software BS. http://positive-feedback.com/reviews/hardware-reviews/melco-ha-n1a-part-1/I love the Melco units. Can';t wait for their updates ones to come out in a few months. I am waiting to see what they end up changing before getting one. As I've said from day one, it's the best NAS out there from what I've heard and what I will use even if I don't use the streaming feature etc... That said, if you read what OP wanted, it doesn't have everything for him. I forget when it was left out. It may even have been cost. It also doesn't do Roon and unless they change their language it still won't. I will need a work around IF I can get it to work seamlessly. That will mean using my rebuilt mac mini running Roon on the net and then using the Melco ONLY as a server. I'd use the ethernet connection for everything in they system/network. |
Yes, all too often we (me too) try to tell folks what sounds better etc...when all they want is a simple all in one solution. Once they use that solution and it's easy, they enjoy music. Real music. I too am going through trying to become an IT guy to get the best sound quality and it's taking away from the fun. I keep waiting on that one component to come out that will be the be all end all. Roon core and a decent hard drive, ethernet that is isolated and have all the noise taken out of the signal chain. Yes, I want it all, but right now, that's not out there. Melco is the closest, but no Roon core and it won't have that. I may wait for the new Melco units to come out, get the Roon NUC from Roon once that comes out and call it a day.
Glad you love your VAult2 |
Hick, in the beginning of the thread he said that was out of his budget. That's why he went with the Bluesound Vault. As for the W20 and N10, the difference in sound is only if you use the balanced output of the W, otherwise the N10 will sound virtually the same based on my auditions. He also wanted an all in one so most of the higher end units didn't work for him. Nice units though, that's for sure. |
Interesting thread because we are all playing at different levels of cost. It's just so obvious. The OP wanted an all in one unit or system that was affordable. He got what is one of the few on the market that has it all and that includes the streaming he wants and MQA (not sure if it's core or all the way). Folks are still trying to talk him out of it, which is kind of funny.
I've seen someone post that Aurender is the best.....no it's not. What is best is what we listen to vs others and like the best in our system. Digital is funny in that what sounds great in one system may not be the best in the other one in the same house. It's more dependent on the other digital feeds that analog amps are I think. I could be wrong, but it sure seems that way. So much we are learning about digital sound still. I think we still have miles to go with it and we will in time.
Personally, I've heard Melco vs Aurender in many many shops and also in my own system and I prefer the Melco (the N1A not the N1ZH). Melco is coming out with new units in the next few months so I'll wait to see what they have, but Aurender just sounds differently. It's a great unit and I"d happily have one, but I will get what's best in my own system. It's audio and there is no best in any category. Just isn't and cant' be as we all hear differently.
I too like the Antipodes gear and always have. Nothing not to like about it. Nice distributor also. I may have gotten one, but my rebuilt Mac mini still sound better than even their new TOL ref unit. Steven Nugent used it for his shows (he builds the high end Empirical Audio DAC's of which I owned until Ayre came out with theirs). He sold me one of his two servers and went with Antipodes, but he eventually went back to his as it just sounded better. HE wanted a one box solution (the mac has a huge Paul Hynes LPS), but needs the best sound to sell his 14k DAC's.
I read about guys wanting to get rid of their mac's, but if optimized and using the top LPS you can get and changing the drives to the best sounding (not most expensive) SSD's and changing some other components you can have as good a server as a W20 Aurender or Antipodes ref or any other out there. Just not always the prettiest or the easiest to use maybe.
For the price point OP is at, it's the perfect solution of him as the sound is nice and he doesn't want a second box for an external DAC. He's have to upgrade to a Codex or higher (DAC alone will cost much more than this full set up now) to get better sound. JMHO |
The words are too kind, but also realize that I'm just one person. Trust your ears, but when you learn to listen you can hear distortions that really do take away from the music. Many never get there and it's fairly easy to see when reading some posts on boards. NO big deal as long as they love their music Heck, I can spend a day listening to crappy recordings of 80's rock and have my ears killing me. Just love the music.
What I may suggest to you eventually is to look into a Melco as a streamer/NAS and then get a nice DAC like a Codex or equivalent to your ears. Then you can more easily upgrade as you grow. You can then sell your Vault and only lose half, but half of that is less than half of an Aurender or Melco or whatever.
One reason I like the Melco over the Aurender (other than I like the sound better) is because if you update your DAC to one that's say Roon end point and also a top streamer and headphone amp (Like the Ayre QX5 I just purchased), then you can still use the Melco as it's by far the best NAS I"ve heard and even Michael Lavorgna of Audiostream (I pray you are over there enjoying his writing) has said that and that's his job.
Honestly, with what you have now, I wouldn't do anything else just yet. Get comfortable with it and learn to use it to it's fullest. Listen at times critically and see what you enjoy about the sound of it. You will soon notice trends in the sound on various cuts. Then you can learn what you DON'T want next time in any piece you get in your system.
To me audio is just like the second wife (or more)....you need to know what you DON'T want, as you never fully know what you do want. Just think about that and take it for what it's worth. You can and probably will do other upgrades in your system before doing more with the source. Oh, and don't bother with other cables or power cords or anything right now. At the level you are at, it's so silly to spend even 100 for a power cord when you could spend that eventually in component upgrades that will make a much much bigger difference. JMHO |
You should go to their site again and get to know what each piece can do. I"ve seen many systems using the Bluenote gear without the Vault as they already have a large NAS drive they use with it. |
It's one of, if not the easiest way. For it's price range, the Bluesound gear is really solid stuff. |
But not in the price points that the folks in this thread are talking about. Plenty of great servers on the market from Melco to Aurender to Antipodes to Lumin to CAD to custom made to one of the most under rated, The Music Vault by Neil Van Berg (I personally don't like all of them). What kind of US support does the Zenith have? I don't know much about the company. I visited their site, but not much about the US there. |
Well, I've decided to sell my Mac mini that is a total rebuild by Steve Nugent of Empirical Audio. It was his personal unit that he filled with well recorded wav files. Many high res, that he brought to shows to show off his Overdrive DAC. I'm using the hard to get Paul Hynes LPS.
It's a great server. I"m running Amarra right now, but it can run anything that a Mac can use. The reason for this is that I'm getting a new The Memory Player with built in DAC (guess I"m selling the Ayre QX5 DAC/streamer now also, lol). My friend has auditioned every server on the market other than a couple of the new ones that are yet to be released. It beat the Aurender N10 which is the best server I've heard until this new unit.
I have loved the Empirical Mac mini, as I was able to rip songs for my portable DAP and I ripped some of my music onto the internal SSD wiht the built in drive. What I have learned that the Mac needs is the proper hard drive and the best LPS you can get to allow it to be a true high end server that can be used with even ultra high end systems. I took the server to a friends house. He runs a pair of Vandersteen 2's, NAD separates and an Codex DAC/headphone amp with inexpensive Audioquest cables. A fairly modest system I think. My server woke the system up big time. We were shocked at how low the noise floor was and that allowed so much more detail to come out. He has the Bluesound system right now. He was also able to use the Vault to play his own music through the Mac. Since I don't love the look of the Mac and external supply, I put it in the cabinet that has doors on it and just use the TV screen to remotely control it, lol. I just never put it on the net as Steve has turned off everything but Bluetooth and that includes all teh programs that aren't needed for music as they all affect teh sound quality. |
Is it a digital volume control or analog? My Ayre has one of the best sounding volume controls I've ever heard in digital and I would never use it. My The Memory Player will have, what is called, the best digital volume control made as they do some upsampling deal so that you will never lose bits (digital volume controls must be at 100% or you will lose some of the music and yes you can hear it on a good system. I need to audition TMP's control, but I"m not holding out any hope. You mostly lose dynamics when not using a good preamp.
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If you want a great digital transport that has similar features that their 35k server, streamer has, plus can run Roon and playback up to 8X DSD or 768 khz PCM check this out: List is $4995, but I'm sure they can work with you. It's sick good with all the software upgrades they keep on doing, so you will have a player that can be upgraded as you keep owning it, which is invaluable for digital as we all know. The thing I like best is that they can remotely set it up and download the software for you when upgrades come out. No need to have to know computers to set it up, keep it running etc... That was key to me. The Memory Player Mini MK-2 now includes our automatic memory-loading software, delivering the best sonics in a smaller size and affordable price. The Mini can include storage of your choice, with external drives (USB or HDMI) or a networked drive (NAS). As Digital Transport with USB, SPDIF, HDMI and Toslink connections, the Mini incorporates all of our world-class patented jitter reduction software, including: Optimized solid state storage (USB drive) can be added upon request.
The Mini MK-2 is bundled with JRiver 23 pre-optimized for the best playback, and now features our automatic memory-loading software. No more manually moving music to Memory! Our patented technology is largely player independent and can run effectively with Roon, ITunes, HQ Signalyst, Foobar or any other player of your choice.* The Mini is built upon an Intel-based mini PC platform. The Mini is also fully compatible with our Octuple DSD (DSD512, 22,5792 MHz) and 768 kHz PCM capable DAC which will connect to the MP Mini along with our DC power filtering and regeneration power products.
The Memory Player Mini – Play It From Memory
* When additional software is added, the Clock Mapper will need to be re-synchronized. https://www.thememoryplayer.net/the-mini |
Guys, be careful. Most of the AC access wifi points will add a lot of noise to the signal that you can't get out even by optical isolation that I'm using as does my Ayre QX5 on it's ethernet connection. There just isn't any way to get around it. Even on modest systems like the Bluesound is, the interference is there and can be heard.
There is no doubt that an ethernet connection is best, but personally, I'd stick with wifi over the AC access point set up if you can't get a direct ethernet connection.
(and yes, I have tried three different AC access systems to try them out and hated them all). What I have now done is purchased the EROS router mk3 I believe it is, that has two ethernet connections built in. I use an optical isolation system, but even without it, I didn't get any extra noise (I was running a very long cable from my other router to check this out), but without the isolation the soundstage will always be a bit smaller and the noise floor is higher.
I've also found that using better power cords on the router has made a fair difference. YMMV. |
The owner of Lumin is a HUGE audiophile. Not all companies are owned or run by someone who's into the hobby. For you money, The Memory Player and it's less expensive server that I posted about above are the top ones, but Aurender and Lumin are outstanding and great values in their price ranges. glad you like it. |
Not sure why my post was removed today after being on there since April. It was a very positive post about Lumin and Aurender. I then mentioned The Memory Player, that a few of us have gotten as being the best we've heard (Matt who has the longest running DAC thread on AG has one and has talked about how great it is).
Not a commercial for it, just stating that it's such a small company and many haven't heard of it, but if you want the top server, it really should be in that mix. Please let me know what was wrong with that post as I missed something. Thanks. |
I got the MP two days ago. I waited for a long time as they designed and built a brand new DAC for it. It's a tubed DAC. All the music on it is 24/192 or 32/384 that was directly off the master tapes. HOLY COW. it's not even burned in yet.....or even close. They have a few settings with different jitter rates. Some may like more jitter as that's why they are used to, but without knowing which slot he was using, it was only one for me adn that's the lowest jitter and all the goodies (the most stealth mode). It's already better than any server I've had in the house and that includes the top Vault that a friend brought over as well as the N10 or W20.
Sorry for not posting much, but I've been so busy. I"ll try to keep you all up as it burns in. I want over 500 hours on it before I talk too much about it. |
It's starting to burn in and it's getting better. The built in DAC (brand new design and first one they have made) is much better than I expected. The DAC alone may end up being one of the top couple that I"ve ever heard (I've heard nearly all the uber high end DAC's on the market in the US).
I'm playing mostly WAV and all 24/192 and 32/384 music. It's not even where it's going to be as it's so new and needs a lot of burn in. This thing is sick good though. Blows away the Aurender N10 that I've had in the house in the past. |
You would have to ask Sam. I have their brand new DAC built in. He customizes them all, so it's best to ask him. I will say that if you use his newest built in DAC, the price is incredible considering what you get. He's been as good to work with as Steve Nugent is at Empirical Audio. Both make GREAT products and are great guys to boot. They actually care adn have pride. |
