Coming back to the initial question: Dynaudio Arbiter is a very very special pre-amp to. Made to order only, very expensive and very flexible. The afore mentionned ASR is a very nice product but funny wise its reputation in the US is much higher than in Germany the land of its origin. To me its to slow and to warm in sound (but thats a matter of taste) and detail retrieval and transparency is a lot better with VTL, Ayon, Boulder or FM Acoustics gear.
Mr. Tennis: would be interesting to know how good old Mac would have played his 1984 Wimbledon final against current Roger Federer - would have been a very close call - but then you have to consider Pete Sampras and Stefan Edberg as well.. |
Every pre-amp does have its own character no matter how minor it is. Here's my rankings:
On the SS side #1. CTC Blowtorch #2. Lyra Connoisseur 4-2 SE, #3 Boulder 2010.
Now on the tube side:
#1 VTL 7,5. #2 Aesthetix Io Sig MKII with volume controls and additional high input via XLR or RCA. #3 the beautiful Wyetech Opal. #4 Wavestream pre-amp sounds like it got everything right.With phonos in all I could live with several of these. #5 CJ ART-2
My second SS tier is the #1 Daartzeel, #2 ASR Emmitters (intergrated) ans the #3 Boulder 2010 as great SS pre-amps. #4 EMM/DAC
Second tier Tube pre-amp are: #1, ARC Ref 3 mk??, #2, Conrad- Johnson ART-2,
Special considerations: Manley Steelhead MK II, Dood pre-amp, Graaf pre-amps
You really could do well wsith these.
cheers, GerryM5 |
I've read this thread pretty closely and I am surprised I haven't seen these 3 preamps listed, well almost.one is listed but before Albert Porter helped take it to the next level.
I haven't heard them but they are on my short list of components I will make sure I hear before making a decision.
Aesthetix Callisto
Nick Doshi's Alaap
& Raul's Essential 3150
I think it was W.C. Fields who said I wish I was in Philidelphia !
So the Beat goes On.
Best regards
Groovey Records
Listening to
Get your Ya-Yas Out -The Rolling Stones- French Decca FFrr Pressing 278 023 |
i will take your example of tennis first, frankpiet.
roger federer is not the best vollyer in tennis. he doesn't have the fastets serve. he has won more slams than anyone else and he is a wonderful athlete. i think john mcenroe in his prime would have beaten roger federer on the faster grass at wimbledon during the 80's. the point is how do you define the best tennis player ??
back to audio, there is build quality and there is performance, i.e., sound. there is no bets sound. once you define "best" i can offer another definition. it is subjective. i prefer beauty over truth, so i think a somewhat colored sound is better than a more neutral sound.
how can you argue a philosophical question that has no answer. the idea of best is a philosophical concept it cannot be based entirely on facts. |
Mrtennis: sorry I have to disagree. There are some very special products that are in a legue of its own (soundwise, build quality wise, etc.). Especially the Boulder 2000 series products together with the big FM Acoustics and the DartZeel represent the best money can buy in the solid state amplification field.
Micro Seiki, Walker, Rockport or Goldmund Reference are quite peerless in the field of state-of-the art analogue playback.
It´s like in sports: there is just one John McEnroe, just one Roger Federer etc and many Accuphase, Levinsons which are good/ very good but not state-of-the-art. |
i don't think think a "best" preamp exists and what difference does it make if it did ?
one is still motivated by one's sonic preferences regardless of what may be considered "best" by audio experts.
is there a best wine, a best movie, a best restaurant, a best wife ?
if there is, it is subjectively determined and may be useful when having a philosophical discussison. |
with diamonds I STRONGLY RECOMMEND the CAT JL3. this is an amazing combo!!try cat pre but tube roll to amperex and the dimonds will sing! these amps handle any load you give them and the bass is WOW>>>> |
I owned the 2010 Boulder Pre along with the 2050 Monos.
The problem was sound was very solid and I could not like them,so I sold all.
Please try Wavac HE-833MKII with Wavac PRT1 Preamplifier.
they are the best ,I've ever heard.
You must try them if possible... |
If you can, give the Tron Syren a listen, certainly the best I have ever owned and heard. Superbly musical, the sound is spectacular, and ultra quiet for a tube piece. Looks cool and has performed beautifully in my setup especially with phono.
http://www.tron-electric.co.uk/syren.html
Paul |
Go with Lyra Connoisseur 4-2 SE. As a long time user of Lyra 4-2 and 4-2SE, I can assure you that Lyra is, in fact, the best pre-amp, which let you forget about the equipment any more and listen to the music. |
I have been using the General Electric single tube mono 6SC7 phono preamp for 40 years. Original NEW cost $12.99 (twelve dollars and 99 cents). I have A-B compared this to 20 professional radio station phono preamps and it was the winner. I have no intention to look any further for a phono preamp. G-E sold tens of thousands of these pre's; more of this preamp from 1950 to 1960 than any preamp in audio historyI invite comparisons up to $125,000. Comments? |
I currently have a Boulder 1010 on loan (normally I use Nagra PL-L which I like a lot) and I must say in my system it is by far the best pre-amp I´ve ever heard (resolution, speed, detail, imaging, soundstage, neutrality, ..) are at the very top. As power amp I use Ayre V-1xe which replaced a modded V-5xe.
Is it the best pre ? Don´t know as there is Boulder 2010, FM Acoustics, Ayon Spheris, Kondo M-1000, First Sound Paramount and a handfull of other state-of-the Art units but I believe at this level its just a matter of taste and system synergy. |
I have a Wyetech Opal and it surely should be mentioned as a contender. The reason you never see them on the used market is that it is a "legacy" product; built to last a lifetime and with so pristine and reliable a design, and with such high construction and parts quality, owners like myself have no interest whatsoever in the preamp "flavor of the month". And at the price it is a great value. It is the one component in my system I have NEVER thought of replacing.
System:
Wyetech Opal
Krell 300cx amp
Dodson 218 DAC
CEC TL-1X transprt with RAM mods (includ. Superclock 3)
Von Schweikert VR5 HSE spkrs
Elrod Statement,2 Sig and Nordost Valhalla PC's
Valhalla and AQ Sky IC's
Stealth Sextet bal. digicable
PAD Venustas spkr cables.
Original Hydra power cond. |
Curious how no one mentioned the Opal in this thread. It seems like you can never find one used. |
Since my first version of the H-Cat P-12 line stage about three years ago, I have always been greatly impressed by its precise soundstage and instrument location. I now have the new P-12B 5x which is the 6th version I have had. It is the final version and is now in substantial production.
It is such a substantial step further than even the previous version that I still have as to suggest a new circuit. It is merely a greatly refined version, but I would seriously doubt if anything will approach it. I have never heard bass like this nor such a sense of the recording venue. Realism is the only appropriate character that I can think of to characterize it.
All that I can really say is look for reviews and give it a listen if you get a chance. |
Supratek needs consideration.A Supratek Cabernet has taken my system to a completely different level of performance[and I used a Metaxas Marquis before].
I hear Supratek is also developing a dual cicuit topography with different outputs for bass and mid/highs.There has always been this compromise between optimal performance in these often conflicting areas and this makes a lot of sense where bi amping is possible.
JT |
I have been achieving some of that 'magic' Fcrowder mentions with a combo of Steelhead running thru the MM input, to the Lamm L2, using the latest Titan. Not saying it is the 'best' but the combo achieves more than the sum of its parts. And, while I appreciate that these are 'production' units they probably work fine in a range of other systems. The Lamm, used, is a bargain, and while the Steelhead is not so readily available used (yet), it offers enormous flexibility. It is an interesting combo. (Haven't tried some of the others mentioned). |
Best? Who knows? In the end, how you react to a particular preamp will be a function of your tastes and the remainder of your system. I would also suggest that ease of use, reliability, ease of repair and dealer support should be considered. Also, do you need a unit which has balanced inputs and outputs? I owned a CTC Blowtorch for many years and was very pleased with the sound. I still feel that it is in the top three solid state units available, but it has no remote and cannot accept balanced inputs. More importantly, it lacks that last little bit of magic that tubed units seem to have. The solution for me was an Einstein preamp. It is tubed, retains the speed, detail, low noise and imaging of the Blowtorch but in addition has better, more impactful bass, better dynamics, is more three dimensional, better image density and tonally is truer to the sound. In addition, it has a very well thought out remote, balanced inputs and a balanced output. Is it the best preamp in the world? Who knows? But it is one of the very few units which I could live with long term. And it does have magic! |
I will agree with the First Sound Statement. Hand made copper capacitors-I am sure I heard the voice of god!
Only a handfull are competitors. |
Ayon Spheris, Cello Audio Suite, Boulder 2010, Audio Note M-1000 - with these you can´t go wrong as they for sure represent the cream of the crop. Have heard all of them (unfortunately in different set-ups but you´ll def. get the WOW-Factor ;) |
this week i tried first sound 's paramount mk2 special edition statement preamplifier againts kondo M1000 with zanden digitals , komuro amps and kharma grand exquisites.
and i can only say that S.E statement from first sound is as good as M-1000.
very impressive... |
My friend owns,and loves it.He has a wonderful system,and this pre is one reason why. |
What about the Conrad Johnson ART? Anyon ever heard it? |
Mike, I was only "ribbing you",about the Ayon pre-:)Yet it looks to be the kind of unit we will hear more about.Supposedly a stunning design.As to the Messenger,I wonder why it gets so little press,anymore.That one was originally slated to be a worldbeater.
Best! |
Sirspeeedy, i did hear the Ayon Spheris at CES along with their amps, the Lumen White speakers, and the Blue Pearl tt.
hard to comment specifically on the preamp, but overall the system sounded very good.....in a slightly 'golden' way. lot'sa tubes sounds like lot'sa tubes.
i did go back twice to the room because i really enjoyed it; the second time they were using the Messinger preamp; which did make the system sound slightly more neutral and fast. |
Where does the top of the line Pass Labs X.02 preamp fall into this mix? Is it a player among the elite preamps? Has anyone heard this preamp? |
I have had many preamps, the best two that come to my mind are Metaxas (two box) and Gryphon Elektra.
Hope this helps |
I will vote for Kondo M-77 and M-1000. |
The Viola Audio Labs: Viola Spirito Modular preamp, or Viola Cadenza preamp. |
Also consider the Boulder 1000 series preamps. This is the first Boulder product I owned before replacing it with the 2010 preamp. I find the Boulder 1000 series to offer much of the quality of 2000 series in the areas of neutrality, musicality, and timbral accuracy. Where they are different is in dynamics and soundstage depth. The 2000 series offers very natural changes in dynamics - or said another way - the music ebbs and flows as live music does. The soundstage in the 2000 series also has greater depth and layering, and even more detail without loss of musicality. But the 1000 series offers fantastic sound in these areas too, bettering most competitors. The improvements offered by the 2000 series are not proportionate to the increase in price over the 1000 series, at least in my opinion. However, you posed the question about the best preamp, regardless of price... |
The new AYON,looks to be the newest kid on the block.Built in phonostage,with parts quality,to die for.You simply "have to have it" Mike L."!!I want a full report,by July!! |
the darTZeel NHB-18NS is the best i've heard; and i've heard many listed so far. battery powered and including a world class phono stage and remote volume control it is hard to beat. if you are using a darTZeel amp you can use the 'cheap' 50 ohm BNC 'zeel' cables which likely humble any other interconnects and can somewhat pay for much of the upgrade if you have a long run of expensive cable between pre and amps. since it is battery powered it doesn't matter what power cord is used....saving more money and simplifying setup.
the darTZeel does not sound like solid state or tubes....it sounds like the source it is fed....and yet it is easily the most dynamic preamp (you have not heard dynamics until you hear battery power) and has the lowest noise floor i have heard.
it should be on any short list of best preamps ever. |
I have the 2010 Boulder Pre along with the 2050 Monos. I have to say that I haven't listened to many of the above listed well-respected names, but all I can say is it's a GREAT preamp, no sound colorations, very fast and very natural. It is at least 2 classes above than my previous ML Ref. Preamp. Yes, it's insanely expensive (but so are the most of the above) but you'll love it... |
You must check out the Boulder 2010. The attributes of the well-known Boulder 2008 phono stage are the same for the 2010 - that is massive detail, natural dynamics, harmonic and timbral accuracy, and huge soundstage. And the sheer beauty of sound and eminent musicality is just icing on the cake! |
I heard a lot of preamps, and only a few are excellents preamps. Among the SS preamps the new Connoisseur 4.2 surely is the best with Vitus,Viola, Boulder series 2000, MBL,CTC, FM and Burmester very near, and probably only reyaudio preamp is equal or better than Connoisseur.
But for me the best preamps, or better the preamps that are more easy to work with , are the tube preamps, they are less expensives than the best SS preamps, because as there are so many few excellents SS preamps they are very expensives.
Among the tube preamps there are many gems: Kondo M-1000,emotive audio epifania and Messenger are for me the very best, but Callisto and VAC are very near and a little behind are ARC ref3, EAR, VTL 7.5, ACT 2 |
21 entries and more than 21 candidates! I bet there are more than that. So here's my recommendation:
1. Go with tubes.
2. A good preamp can drive interconnects over 25 feet with no ill effects at all.
3. Avoid remote control volume systems except those where a motor drives the volume control, which will be based on a multiposition switch. All other volume controls fall short!
4. The preamp will be built with a custom wire and if not handwired, then will sport custom materials in the circuit board (not FR4 IOW).
5. It will have the very best caps and the very best caps are Teflon.
6. The signal path will be simple.
7. The outboard power supply will be heavily regulated.
These 7 features are essential! This should help you rule out some of the non-players. |
I agree with Herman. www.reflectionaudio.com
There isn't much chatter about this product on the net although there was one post by a person who directly compared this preamp with some very notable contenders, both tube and solid state. Unfortunately I can't remember the other brands he compared.
I believe customization is available. Unlike some other battery powered products this preamp has balls, very dynamic and quiet. The preamp section never sees AC voltage even when it's charging. It's difficult to tell the difference when listening in the charging mode or in play.
I was lucky to find a loaded Quantum used. Unfortunately, the only comparison I could make was with a late model Audible Illusions M3A w/phono which was completely out classed in every aspect, and my Eidolons don't lie.
Have fun
|
the marantz 7 is still the benchmark. |
Audio Note Kondo Japan M1000 and M77. |
|
Gary Dodd's new battery tube preamp. Check it out at the audio circles. According to Gary this is his best preamp to date and will compete with the very best. |
The two finest with which I have much experience are the Atma-Sphere MP-1 and the CTC Blowtorch. Disclaimer - I peddle one and owned the other. With suitable system matching, they're in the same league. |
Even though I own Chapter Audio gear,George at Dehavilland, brought his Mercury2 over to my house and I cried(well at least my eyes got teary.LOL).Regardless of price that pre has "balls". |
Partial to VAC Phi 2.0 - Statement piece |
If cost is no object then a travel budget shouldn't be either. You need to get out and listen to all of the preamps that interest you, no matter where they might be. Remember it's a process to be enjoyed every bit as much as the result. Have fun and happy listening! Oh almost forgot, check out the brand new reference preamp from Air Tight, I can't remember the model designation, but it shouldn't be hard to find. |
I would have to say the Supratek Grange. |
Counterpoint assaulted the state of the art with their SA11,4? some years ago.The designer is still around in So Cal.You could call him most any time,I'm thinking....good luck,we are envious understandably,Bob |
There is no "best", only the best within a given system and per a given individual's taste. That said, Linn's Klimax Kontrol definitely deserves a mention. |
I think you should buy a used B&K Pro 10 since cost is no object. They can be found used for about $250, and in the buffered unity-gain mode will probably equal or surpass the high-priced pieces you are considering... The preamp has no remote, but has an outboard power supply and a nice MM phono stage. You may want to upgrade the phono stage at some point when funds allow. ;-) |
The Viola Cadenza is simply superb, outperforming the Cello Audio Suite and Cello Encore preamps in very parameter, and those most assuredly are highly regarded. Whether it is the "best" is an open question to which there is no definitive answer, but it is certainly one of the top preamps, to my fallible ears at least. |
