Mrtennis, I would say also that your carrying on about this subject makes no sense and proves nothing. I see no reason also to continue. |
Since my first version of the H-Cat P-12 line stage about three years ago, I have always been greatly impressed by its precise soundstage and instrument location. I now have the new P-12B 5x which is the 6th version I have had. It is the final version and is now in substantial production.
It is such a substantial step further than even the previous version that I still have as to suggest a new circuit. It is merely a greatly refined version, but I would seriously doubt if anything will approach it. I have never heard bass like this nor such a sense of the recording venue. Realism is the only appropriate character that I can think of to characterize it.
All that I can really say is look for reviews and give it a listen if you get a chance. |
Last Tuesday I got an H-Cat P-12R line stage. I very much doubt if any line stage or preamp can be its equal.
I estimate that I have owned 45 preamps during my long sojourn in audio. I recently got the six and hopefully final version of the H-Cat P-12 line stage. From the first version that won TAS Golden Ear Award, I have been impressed with this technology, label Doppler correction. This gives more precise location of instruments and vocalists with all frequencies originating at one point. This yields no smear to the sound and great tonal accuracy.
While the P-12R is still getting better, I find myself restless to hear other records and discs to hear whether they too sound far superior to how they used to sound. Brass and transients leap at you as they do in live music if you are as near as the microphones. Drums have the impact that that I had previously only heard on compression driven horns.
As an innovative circuit, this device has evolved. Early on I thought it was excellent, but then it got better in the P-12B and better yet again in the P-12B X5. The only real word to describe the sound was realism. I thought the last version could not be improved, but I was wrong, very wrong. I know of five others who now have their P-12Rs and who are also raving. You must hear this unit. |
Mrtennis and Oxia, of course I agree that no one can really say anything is the best. I must say, Oxia, that I don't regard what limited aspects we can measure as a superior method for evaluation. This is the old objectivist position.
Given the many line stages I have heard, however, none even approaches the new P-12R. As a long time tube equipment user who often dismissed solid state linestages with the exception of the TAD, I can assure everyone that the P-12R has none of the characteristics of either tubes or transistors.
As I have said, I have had six or seven different versions of this line stage as it evolved into the exceptional unit I have today. I just replaced an H-Cat of two versions ago with the P-12R. One would not want to listen to the old unit, as good as it was.
I don't think there is much purpose in verbally discussing sound other than to say, "wow, you have got to hear this." |
Mrtennis, all that I wish to convey to you and others is that they should go to listen to this unit which greatly impresses me and which I believe is unrivaled by anything I have ever heard.
I doubt if you could be convinced by anything I say nor am I willing to try. I have used tube line stages for many years and know that some are better than others, so I don't really know what you mean about preferring a "tube" sound. I can assure you and others that the H-Cat P-12R does not have the grain I have heard in many other solid state line stages, nor any of the smear, slowness, and boom I have heard in some tube line stages. But it is the clarity and realness of the sound stage that most impresses those who have heard the new H-Cat. Please, Mrtennis, don't try it, you might like it. |
Mrtennis, if you are accusing me of hyping, go to hell. You heard a very aged unit and claim to have heard a very transistor sound. I heard a unit of the same age but heard nothing like this. What would you conclude?
As I will say for the last time to you, please do not listen to the new P-12R, you might like it. |
Huh? I don't understand this. |
Paulficarella, IMHO the H-Cat P-12R kills the ARC Ref 3 at a lower price. YMMV. |
Foghost, Bloulder 2010 is best?? I would not have it in my system. I agree about the Connoisser being quite good, however. This August I am hoping to have my H-Cat in the same room as a Connoisser for both to settle down and do a comparison. I think I know which will please me more. |
Jmaldonado, it is a free world (at least part of it), subjective evaluations will always drive buying decisions, and it isn't anarchy, it is capitalism. If you make a better mouse trap, the world will beat a path to your door. I do agree with your opinion that the notion of the "best" preamp will only get personal testimonials, but that is really why Audiogon forums exist. |
One thing that is good about the AudioAsylum site is that there can be no thread highjacking. The threads are gone too fast. |
Carlos, had you not included the required answer question about what makes the Acrolink cable better, I would merely have blown off your incorrect statements about old American tubes versus new tubes.
Basically, you are wrong in saying that microphonics, noise, defective construction, and reliability are all that differentiates tubes. This is grossly inaccurate. Materials quality within, the capability of the individual making the tubes, the geometry of its construction, the level of the vacuum, and the level of quality control all also enter into the picture. If you just consider the Western electric 300B tube, you can see the differences. WE's last run was in 1988. These tubes are audibly inferior to those made in the 1970s and this is evident in the prices they get on Ebay. In turn the 1950-60s tubes are clearly better than the 1970s tubes. Finally, when Westrex sought to restart the WE 300Bs in 1995, these tube were a pale imitation of even the 1988s. Newer production seems somewhat better but still inferior to older production. I have 1995 production, 2006 production, 1988 production, 1976 production, and 1957 production. Chinese construction even with high QC and some design innovations fail miserably to have the realism evident in the old WE tubes.
I know what I hear when I listen to these and to some degree, these can be verbalize which on occasion I have sought to do so, but Fred is under no obligation to prove anything to you. So he prefers the sound, not the "flavor" on tubes that are rare enough now to cost $100. I prefer the sound of WE 300Bs that cost nearly $1000 per tube. If that is how I choice to spend my money what is it to you?
Certainly when you speak of tube choice as basically tone controls, so you can appreciate the concept of a more flat and accurate response as well as a capability to be more dynamic. I seek more accurate tubes.
The power cords are a similar matter. Build quality is hardly the only variation among power cords and you are being simplistic to suggest so. One comparison between two different cables was sufficient to convince me that I had to have one of them. Since that experience 18 years ago, I have found progressively superior power cables, but have been unsuccessful in finding ac filtering that I can use.
I am pretty sure that you are subscribing to the basic notions of those called "objectivists," who dismiss differences among tubes, power cords, etc. If you cannot hear differences don't think you can dismiss those who do. |
Bingo, Carlos, I choose not to participate any further is such nonsensical discussions, which are really pseudo-science lectures. You sir are the one saying things that would suggest our understandings of physical phenomena are complete and that nothing further can be found. You have no scientific basis for dismissing anything such as you have concerning the sound of tubes, power cords, and heaven knows what else. If I have lost your respect it sounds like I have adequately dismissed your limited understanding of what science is all about.
Fred may choose to humor you by responding to your uninformed questions, but not me. I know how well he hears, so when he says something I respect it. |
Carlos, frankly I do not believe you have any degree in physics, which by the way was one of my undergraduate degrees. I would believe an engineering degree, in particular in EE, where you are taught that all is know about electronics. And as far as designing for NASA, forget it. I know an ex-NASA electrical engineer who now does tube audio design and who has an appreciation for the limits of our understanding, which your education seems to have been remiss in giving you.
Good luck with your tilting at windmills book and don't bother to send me a copy.
You don't seem to understand that no one cares what you have to say, as you seem wholly ignorant. |
Herman, I am a private member who has been in audio for 40 plus years. Bill Feil is a dealer who has a interest in what people say about products, in particular those which he does not sell. I never did a review of Mr. Kait's tweak, but he did approach me asking that I participate in a test. I agreed, I was told that he was thinking about marketing the tweak. I did not pay to participate as a beta tester. I had paid for earlier tweaks by Mr. Kait and liked some. So you can see that Bill is fast and loose with his charges. If you check he contributes nothing to any discussion, only mocking those who say they like products that he doesn't sell. |
Carlos,
I have even posted an inquiry about the Tempo. Recently, I received another email from them saying that the first production units would be available in Sept. It sounds like you must have experience with the early prototype units. I once had the Loesch solid state TAG preamp. It was very good but hard to use as digital was too loud at the lowest levels on the volume control and vinyl required nearly full gain. I believe the guy who bought it still has it and loves it.
I suspect since you mention the 6C45Pi tube that you must know there are difference among Soviet era tubes. I have many 6N1Ps that sound quite different. I no longer use the tube preamp that used them, but hey I retain the better than 1000 tubes I have as a good investment.
I don't remember your coming on so strongly in our earlier conversations, but I really did think your passive Big Dog was the best passive unit I had tried. |
Carlos, it is not the case that I am advocating the teleportation tweak or Magic Pebbles. I found a benefit from the teleportation tweak and with regards to the Magic Pebbles, initially heard nothing, then with a quite different placement found great benefit, and finally with the new H-Cat found I could no longer use them.
I know the effects of perceptual bias as well as the liabilities of DBTesting. I also know that it works many ways with people who don't want to hear anything less likely to hear one. But as I have said, I am seeking accurate and thrilling music reproduction, and will leave it up to those with more circuit knowledge to innovate. If I hear a demonstration of a tweak or component and it moves me toward greater realism, and if I can afford it, I will buy it.
My biggest problem with some on Audiogon is that they think they know all there is to science. Since there have been many scientific advancements since I got my degree in 1961 and when you got yours, I cannot understand why you would think what we know now is all there is to know. But even more importantly, if you don't try things that others find beneficial, how will you ever know that our understanding falls short. I encourage open-mindedness, as I know too often science gets into a set paradigm for years only to have some finding shake it up.
I don't teach any natural science, but science can be used effectively on social science issues and I teach the scientific method at both undergraduate and graduate levels. I was one of the very first political scientists to do so as I was advantaged by my science majors in undergraduate school.
Now that I am retired, I can venture to Houston more often. I hope to be down soon to hear Fred's Acapellas. You are invited to come up here also. I have no tube equipment now, however. |
