Best DIY power cable. Why not make?
williewonka A word of warning regarding the use of solid core conductors for power cables...Yup! That's why UL listed cords are always stranded. Solid core is for use only up to the receptacle. |
@lak the idea of several wires came from some of the solid core cables, which use several different conductors of different sizes. Is there a huge advantage in twisting conductors around each other vs just running them next to each other? @ Williewonka: So I can just use the cheap monoprice wire for the ground component next to higher quality wire for the signal component? Thanks |
I did these and was happy with the results. You can also upgrade any component you want if it makes you feel better using an "audiophile" rated component. http://diyaudioprojects.com/Power/diyMains/ |
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@sophie999 - apologies for the delay - been busy :-) RE: - Is there a huge advantage in twisting conductors around each other vs just running them next to each other? Yes there is an advantage to twisting conductors - it actually reduces the effect of EMI/RFI - it’s called the "Proximity Effect" - look it up on the web. You will find postings that trivialize the impact of this effect, but it is my belief it has a far greater impact on cable perofrmance than those postings makes you believe. WRT: @ Williewonka: So I can just use the cheap monoprice wire for the ground component next to higher quality wire for the signal component?Correct! - but to add to that... - I believe the neutral conductor can be of lower quality than the signal/live conductor, but it should be of a heavier gauge than the signal/live conductor. - and the ground should be at least the same gauge as the signal/live conductor - there is no benefit in making the ground a larger gauge or from a higher quality material If you think of the conductors as a garden hose ... - water in a 1/2" diameter hose has a defined pressure. - attaching a smaller hose to the 1/2" hose would increase pressure and impede water flow in the 1/2" hose - attaching a larger hose to the 1/2" hose would reduce pressure and enhance water flow in the 1/2" hose. Due to many other factors it is not a "complete" analogy - but it gets the point across... - a larger neutral conductor is better for all cables, i.e. Speaker and IC’s as well - to keep it simple - I just make the neutral twice the gauge of the live/signal conductors I believe there there are formulas for the ratio of Signal/Live and Neutral conductors, but for the DIYer - getting the exact gauge for the neutral may be problematic. So - to summarize the three conductors - SIGNAL/LIVE - highest quality material possible for best results - NEUTRAL - lower quality than the signal conductor but 2x the Live - GROUND - any grade will suffice - same gauge as the Live conductor Having said that - the quality of the neutral highlighted on my web site is actually very good and can be used for both signal/live and neutral conductors. But the finished product is just a "tad’ less responsive than the DH Labs/Furutech cables mentioned. BTW- you may find comments elsewhere that mixing different gauge conductors in a single cable is not advisable - but during my cable journey I have not found anything to support this view Hope that helps - Steve |
@williewonka I think that construction with symmetrical gauges and equal quality conductors on all three legs is appropriate for a balanced power configuration. With a balanced power transformer, ground is separate from neutral, and +/-60V is developed across hot-ground and neutral-ground legs, totaling 120V between hot and neutral. For that application I build a PC with a three-twist of all 10awg silver conductors built up from 20awg .999 dead soft silver strands. At current commodity pricing for silver, that’s just $275 for a 1.5m PC. |
@dgarretson - I agree with your design approach - specifically for that application - it makes a lot of sense. May I suggest braiding the three main conductors - not twisting them - it should improve dynamic performance and noise floor even further. My helix design is for individual component power cables only. I’ve never dealt with balanced power - thanks for that info. Regards - Steve |
I may try your recipe for the next one. So far, I'm using a variation of a VH Audio recipe: hot and neutral in a twisted pair, surrounded by the ground wire in a counter-spiral. For shielding, that bundle is slipped inside a braided copper tube that is grounded at the pronged plug and floated from the IEC plug. These PCs are killers with Furutech FI-48 ends. For the next one I'm trying the new Oyaide AP-and AC-004 connectors. The Oyaides are more economical and look well designed. |
@williewonka Sorry to revive this thread but you mention soldered spades for the internals of the connectors and IMO that makes a lot of sense and, frankly, would give me more piece of mind on my first DIY PC (Furutech Alpha 3 11AWG cable; furu 90 deg male end, wattgate IEC end). I'm excited to put it together but want to do it right. Question is, what are good quality spades that would fit inside those connectors? Next update to my room will be the Furu NCF outlet, cooked preferably. |
dill"Do not use spades in power cables." There is no logic, reason, or justifictation for not using spades on power cables and in fact use of such terminations can insure a proper connection, contact, and conduction. |
@toddrhodes - the spades I use are nothing special - just plated copper You can get them from Radio Shack (or similar stores) - I also get them from stores that sell car parts - 10-12 gauge should do nicely. Try this place https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&u... The spades above do not degrade the performance of the cable as long as good wire and good connectors are used - their electrical path is far too small to make a significant difference The IEC Connectors and Plugs I use have a curved clamp - once they are tightened around the spade there is little possibility thay will come apart https://www.ebay.ca/itm/SONAR-QUEST-CRYO-Ag-Audio-Grade-Silver-plated-IEC-plug-US-main-plug-sonarque... I am not saying the Sonar Quest are better than the Furutech or Oyaide connectors, but they are very good and cost much less. They have a thick coating of very pure silver so they will not tarnish quickly or wear through to the solid copper pins under normal use. I have been developing power cables for a few years and started with Furutech and DH labs bulk cable, but quickly found using a better cable geometry outperforms them by a significant margin. I have tried bare wire joints, soldered wire, crimped spades and crimped + soldered spades and found the last of those methods provided the best performance. Others may have found differently. I would invest in good crimping pliers - like those on my web site below - they make a huge difference to the finished joint and require less solder I like eutectic solder or 4% WBT solder. BUT - do not use just any old solder because it will degrade the sound. Here is a link to the Helix Power Cable that I use http://image99.net/blog/files/category-002ahelix-power-cable.html At first glance it may appear complex, but it is actually quite simple if you follow the technique in the link and it will provide performance that few other cables can compete with. Once person that tried them promptly replaced all of his Nordost cables I can also highly recommend the speaker and interconnect cables on my site - I have compared them to TOTL Cardas cables and the Helix sounded more complete with a huge sound stage. If you have any other questions just ask away Good luck with your DIY - it’s worth the effort :-) Regards - Steve |
There is no logic, reason, or justifictation for not using spades on power cables and in fact use of such terminations can insure a proper connection, contact, and conduction.Just any old spade connector work? Obviously correct for the gauge of wire I'm using, but since I'm using high quality wire and connectors, I don't necessarily want to throw $.01 spade connectors inside :) |
@williewonka Thank you! I visited your site last night but didn't see the Helix instructions, which answered all of my questions. Disregard my last question, you already answered it. So I think I'm going to make the cable with the items I have onhand, as a good practice run. May not even plug it into any audio equipment at first, but since it's my first cable, choose a sacrificial lamb with an IEC connector instead :) If it runs fine for a bit, I'll move on to trying the helix as I build a parts list of the things you mentioned. I have a good set of Klein crimps from my time in audio, and I use Cardas quad-eutectic solder so I think that will be ok? Also recently got a nice soldering station so that will get some use as well. Mainly I just need to procure some of the Sonar Quest connectors (for the price, I don't feel I need to look further, honestly), and the TFA wire, based on the equipment I need to cable. Thank you again, and congrats on all your hard work! Todd |
Todd - the Cardas solder is as good as any I mentioned - it will perform well. BTW: I have been using eutectic solder for the past few months and now prefer it to the silver solder because it hardens quicker, which I think makes for a better joint. The sound has not suffered at all, so it seems to work very well Like you, I started with bulk cable. Once I tried the Helix geometry I simply "re-purposed" the wires from my Furutech and DH Labs cables as the Live conductors in my Helix Cables - and they worked extremely well But it did seem almost "criminal" to cut away all that insulation AND the braided screen from the Furutech bulk cable. FYI - the helix neutral and ground wires do provide a very effective screen for the live wire, protecting it from EMI/RFI and limiting the EMI/RFI from the live wire also. So when you decide to make Helix cable - re-use the wires inside the bulk cable you purchased Good luck with your cables - Steve |
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There is no logic, reason, or justifictation for not using spades on power cables and in fact use of such terminations can insure a proper connection, contact, and conduction." You are just adding one more, unnecessary, connection point to the chain. Spades can come loose or break. Speaker cables yes, A/C power cords no, there is no need and no benefit. |
Todd - they are in the process of re-sourcing that gauge wire. However - they do have some stocks left of the previous wire, but in order to purchase it you have to send them an email and they will setup a manual order Here is the email they sent to me... Alas, I do not know what that manual process involves - sorry Try emailing them at - sales @ takefiveaudio.com - I had to put the spaces each side of the @ in the address to prevent this interface from removing it A fellow DIYer could not get TFA to deliver to Bulgaria, so he sourced this wire and reported excellent results https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Red-37-0-4-10AWG-PTFE-teflon-silver-plated-copper-wire-speaker-wiring-/171102498724?hash=item27d680efa4 Hope that helps - Steve |
You are just adding one more, unnecessary, connection point to the chain. Spades can come loose or break.I completely agree with you here. It is one more connection and one more type of material for the signal/electricity to travel through. They are also bad for speaker cables, though, and for the same reasons. (in theory). |
For those that poopoo on wire. I posted this on asylum a few weeks back. I was once in your camp too... Also my shop HIFI Buys loaned me AudioQuest Hurricane power cocrds to try. I poopoo'd these of course. It's wire, it's power wire. Hooked 2 up to the Mac 601 monos, Well crap.... ok so maybe it's me. I sat the wife down who really did not want too. She said Alan had found another sucker. She and I both heard a level of grudge removed that is very real. Small but sweet. I really did not want my Amex near these but even she said go ahead lol. Interesting that the test on the AR Ref6 was kinda a no go. I think it's better but not for the money, the amps a no brainer. Who would have thought, it's wire.... |
