Best $200 speaker cables for overall performance?

let me share an experience, which may seem off topic, but illustrates an important principle.

a fiend was rummaging through a box of interconnect and digital cable. he came upon a digital cable, consontructed as follows:

two parallel runs of enameled wire, 34 gauge, separated by 3/4 inch weather stripping and crimped to a pair of radio shack cheap plastic connectors.

in his system we compared the enameled cable to others and his system sounded terrific with his home-made enameled cable.

then he found a pair of interconnects. wire was around the same gauge , covered by a plastic jacket and the parallel runs were separated by the same 3/4 felt. hooked them up and again the cables acquitted themselves very well.

the point is that the idea of the "best" of anyting is a limited term, because it does not take into account many brands that have not been mentioned.

in addition, it is possible to construct your own which may be better than many of the suggestions.

obviously, if you construct your own, it is time consuming and there may be many rejects.

i would just listen to as many cables in your price range as possible, and learn as much as you can about wire and any information pertaining to speaker amplifier interactions with cable that may lead to unpleasant results.

Vic Morrow was great in "Combat".

Well, I did pick up a run of Morrow SP2(bare wire ends as Morrow suggests) for my center channel. I must say, this is the best and clearest my center speaker has been so far.

Actually, I bi-amped the center speaker by running the Morrow to the HF posts, and some old Esoteric heavy gauge to the LF posts. I had previously been using a set of Alpha Core MI2. The Morrow is immediately noticeably clearer, and without any added harshness or sibilance that I can detect. Again, the MI2 may be at a disadvantage due to being terminated with bananas vs bare wire on the Morrow. I might like to try some MI2 with bare terminations.

DNM Reson solid core

As a follow up, I tried switching the Morrows to the LF speaker inputs, and the Goertz MI2 to the HF inputs. That didn't last long. There was an obvious loss of HF detail and clarity. Everything seems more natural and clearer with the Morrows on the HF inputs.

The only caveat is that the Morrows are bare wire(as recommended by Morrow), while the MI2 have banana connectors, which may or not be affecting the signal.

Based on this, I think I am going to order a short run of the Morrow for my center channel.

Transparent Cable is awesome! Even the enrty -level cable around $200...

Anti-Cable will surprise the heck out of you.

Yep, I must now have maybe a couple hundred hours on the Morrows, and there is definitely a greater sense of palpability of instruments such as drums and guitar than with the Tara Labs. The high frequencies seem to come through better, but not with any apparent increase in stridency or harshness. Strings and orchestra sound very good, and I don't seem to notice any of this "silver glare" that people talk about.

I think I really like this setup. I do still want to reverse the cables, that is, run the Goertz MI2 to the HF terminals of the speakers, with the Morrows then going to the LF terminals. Then, I will mainly compare the highs and mids.

Nordost flat 2 or 4 are great cables in this range...2 comes in bulk that your local dealer can terminate or you could do it yourself...i have listened/auditioned many cables in this range...and most everything sounds the same..ie...they dont improve the sound...

OK, I went with a set of Morrow Audio SP2 Reference Speaker Cable. They say it needs 200 hours to fully break in; I'm not sure about this whole break in thing with cables.

The first thing that I noticed about these cables is how light they are. I mean they don't seem to weigh anything. I don't see how they can carry enough current for big bass sound.

So, what I did was to run the Morrow cables to the high frequency posts of the speakers, and then I ran a set of Goertz Alpha Core MI-2 to the low frequency posts. This way, I know I am getting enough juice to the low frequency posts. I guess this is what they call a shotgun bi-wire hookup. Also, I plan to later switch the cables at the speaker posts, and see if I prefer the Morrow or the Goertz sound on the high frequencies.

At this point, I have maybe 20 hours on the Morrow cables. Again the current setup is replacing my 10 year old bi-wire set of Tara Labs RSC Prime cables.

So far, it does seem the mids and highs are very clear with the Morrows on the high frequency posts. I listened a bit to a SACD and am pretty impressed. I will have to do a bunch more listening and continue to break in the cables for a while before making any firmer conclusions.

I just noticed and can't believe I responded to a 2 year old post!! Just wondering, Do posts ever get dropped??

I would also put Pear Comice cables on your short list.

Jim Speltz - Anti Cables speaker cables, right here on audiogon. $10 per foot per pair, $200 could get you a 20 foot pair!

What about these Morrow speaker cables? I have seen some positive user reviews. How do they compare to say, Reality, Alpha Core MI-2, Audio Art SC-5, Anti-cables?

I sold the Legacy Classics a while back, but I still am using the old Tara Labs RSC Prime bi-wires in the family room with my Legacy Signature IIs. Will any of these offer me an upgrade in clarity over the RSC Prime?

Angelsmtn, The effect of ERS cloth
(see musicdirect.com)wrapping to reduce undesirable EMI/RFI may have changed something so that unique lack of synergy with your particular components.
This is usually a desirable product, and I think I recall this is used by Gregg, as well as other designers, during the product optimization process.
Glad you found something that works in your system, although I always find Reality to sound so wonderful in each of my systems.

Rayhall: The 8TC's are half the impedance of the 4TC's, meaning that a stable amplifier should be delivering more power with improved transients across the band into identical speaker loads.

If you ran into low frequency problems when going from 4TC up to the 8TC, my guess is that either the amplifier was having a hard time with the change in impedance ( 4TC's higher impedance acting as a buffer to the amp ) and / or your system componentry leans toward the warm side and you prefer a slightly leaner tonal balance. Might have been a combo of these two factors too. Obviously, one has to choose and use what they like best within the confines of their system. Sean
>

My system is big planars and all tubes (pre, monoblocks, CD). I appreciate alot of air in my system. The old stuff was 15 year old Monster Cable ICs and Kimber speaker cables (black and grey twine), and some more recent Supernal biwired speaker cables (unshielded). The system presented alot of air around instruments and voices. I did come to notice that the cables also presented some unwanted noise -maybe not so much noise.... rather a lack of crispness and clarity.

The Reality Cables immediately took the life right out of my system -first IC, second IC, then rolling in the biwired speaker cables. The system seemed completely dead. I thought something was wrong. I checked circuit breakers, etc. I checked the cable direction. I checked and evaluated dozens of different test cases. I rolled the cables out of the system in reverse order. The life came right back into my system. I thought perhaps the cables needed burnin, so I ran them round the clock for a week. No difference. Gregg then sent balanced ICs as well as SS ICs for evaluation. Same result - no life. After almost two weeks, I finally gave up.

I think that maybe there is some electrical uniqueness that presents itself between the VTLs, the Maggies, and the Reality gear that simply doesn't make for a successful combination. Listener57 conjectured that maybe Gregg was using this certain noice reducing film (sorry, I can't remember the name) that caused everything to sound so deadened. At the end of the day, I don't really know why the cables didn't perform. But I felt like I did everything in my power to give the Reality gear every chance for success.

For me, the JPS gear (purple sheath, RCA jacks - the cheaper stuff) was quiet, crisp and clear. I felt that many reference tracks I listen to (typically jazz, vocal, instrumental) for evaluation came to life in a refreshing way that I hadn't heard before. Maggies can play highs very high. I noticed that the JPS helped tone down the excess noise in the highs. And I felt that the JPS made hard rock sections a bit punchier or full bodied.... which I like as Maggies are not necessarily known for deep, heavy bass sections.

I'm sure there are better cables than JPS. Over time, I might like to try the Red Dawns or other loftier gear just for grins. But at this time, the JPS seems to be hitting the mark with my system. This experience has taught me just how much difference that cables can make in tuning a system.

Jp1208, it's interesting that the characteristics that make for a shortcoming in your system makes for a benefit in mine.

Anglesmtn, the JPS superconductor fx ic in my system sounded bloated and heavy in the bottom end. These to me seemed to roll off the highs to much. Very smooth on top but did not have that clean sparkly sound. They reminded me of the Audio Metallurgy GA-0 with better imaging. I never even would have thought to give these a mention based on price to performance. The Paul Speltz Anti ic's had a cleaner sound with more sparkle and sounded more life like on top. They are a bargain hands down. The Reality Cable ic's just made mince meat out of anything I have tried. The sound just exploded out of my JM Lab Electra’s. The soundstage grew way outside of the speakers. If anything at all these cables brought an enormous amount of life into this system.
The crashing of cymbals is just startling real with great weight through the frequencies. I would call these very neutral because there is not one frequency I could detect that takes over. The JPS SCFX to me is just not as balanced. You are right about ordering one set of cables and evaluating them and I started with the speaker cables first. This is just more proof that cables are definitely system dependent and synergy is the key to making one happy. I am glad you found your synergy. I guess we better get back to talking about speaker cables now.

I will second S.D. Campbell on his selection of Kimber 4TC. I have owned it and 8TC as well and felt that the 8TC was much more problematic, particularly with regard to the abudance of bass with this cable. I have found the 4TC to be very neutral, neither hiper-detailed nor lacking in resolution and it is full-range, with excellent extension at both extremes. Excellent evidence of an excellent cable is that as I have seen my system change, the cable never got in the way of revealing the changes in sonic characteristics. I have never felt the need to upgrade the speaker cable. Insofar as my experience with interconnects and JPS Superconductor, although I haven't tried their speaker cable, my guess is that it is a worthy competitor in the budget range as well. My interconnect experience tells me that it might not be as neutral as 4TC, but it is reasonably smooth, a very solid mid-bass, dynamic and clean. To my ears, it has a slight emphasis in the upper mids - not enough to be unpleasant, but enough to be noticeable if you are aware of these things.
This can actually help some recordings by adding a little life, or if your system is on the dark side, it can be just the remedy to breathe a little life in the system. If you are looking for natural sound, you can spend a lot more and not do any better. I have tested many megabuck as well as hightly regarded, moderately-priced cables in my system (predominantly interconnects) and found that they do nothing but overemphasize one part of the frequency spectrum or another and call it an improvement. I think that you are right to go with excellent budget cables. If you want to look around at expensive cable later, you haven't lost much by owning a good budget cable that can be resold without losing any money.

One that I don't have experience with is Goertz Alpha-Core. I see that many have mentioned it favorably here.

Vitalik,

Thanks for the tip. Will give them a call.

Gdoodle,
I found that many great companies have trouble with their communication. It's almost impossible to reach John Bedini, Richard Vandersteen don't even have email address for public, etc.
The best way to get RC Link (zobel network) is to call Alphacore directly 1-800-836-5920 and ask for Sandu Pescaru.

Angel,

Thanks for the tip on the jps supcondutor fx.

What kind of design are they?

I just bought a pair of 3m Audience Maestro's off AudioXsell for $175. These have a retail of almost $400. I was using Cardas Cross and in my system these Maestro's kick the Cardas's rear. I have much better bass, transparency, and dynamics. They are still not even broken in yet but very satisfied with them.

I went with the JPS Supconductor FX. A dealer just loaned me a pair. I knew absolutely nothing about them -never heard of them before. I trialed one pair of interconnects for a weekend, and they sounded fabulous -and not that much money either. So, I ordered a pair. I played them in my system for a month, and decide to order a second pair. No regrets. I know my ears. These cables sound fantasic, and I found the prices to be quite modest. And I accepted the first pair without burn-in.

I played Gregg's cables for at least 100 hours -no improvement. Then he sent me well burned in cables -no improvement. I tried numerous permutations (I was a test engineer 20 yrs ago, so I'm very methodical about isolating a problem). Same result - no improvement in sound. I was thoroughly depressed, and slightly disgusted. I had $800 worth of cables in my living room, and couldn't get one set of cables to sound good.

I even spoke live with Listener57 recently. We discussed possibilities as to why I believe the cables didn't perform, but came to no definitive conclusions.

The net: I know what sounds good in my system. And I have a fairly discriminating ear. For whatever reason, the Reality Cables didn't perform well in my system. And, believe me, no one was more disappointed than myself. You are the folks whose threads I read about these cables, and thus the primary reason for my initial purchase of Reality Cables. Trust me, I read every single one of your threads prior to purchase. I usually find the collective wisdom of the audiogon population to be generally right on the mark. In this case, we simply have a strong difference of opinion.

The net: I moved on and found some other cables I like more -and still at a reasonable price.

Lesson learned: never buy a large quantity of anything like this without first-hand experience. That was my fault. I ordered four sets of cables with no first-hand listening experience. Next time - order one set of cables, evaluate, and take it from there.

I was lucky enough to find a used pair of Alphacore MI2's online for under $200 - sound great so far. I'm noticing depth and decay that was missing before. (Decay is a good thing to my ears...) I'm also noticing some sibilance which I think might just be what my electrical system sounds like - running all stock power cords - I think I need to clean up the power to get rid of the sibilance. I wonder if the flat version of the alpha is picking up RFI? What can I do - wrap them in aluminum foil?!

I'm running Alpha on top and kimber 4VS on bottom of Joseph Audio RM22si's - (why, because I had an extra pair and I like biwiring...)

I've written alphacore about the missing zoebel networks and gotten no response so far...

I've seen that some others have recommended Reality and I have to wholeheartadly agree with them. Based on my experience I know of no cable under $1000 that will even touch this cable, it is that good.

---Perhaps Gregg Straley needs to raise the price of his cables to get more attention?....but he's not about taking as much money as he can even though his cables are better than quite a few seriously expensive offerings.

analysis plus oval 12 for $198 for an 8 feet pair

Angelsmtn, I am also interested in the cables you chose over Reality cables and the differences you heard between the two. Are they cheaper or more expensive? They should at least be in the $200-$300 range. A named brand speaker cable better than the Reality cable in this price range? You have my attention!

I'm with JPL1208 and Listener57 on this one. My Reality speaker cables (shotgun bi-wired, 10') have replaced other high end cables that I owned (Cardas Gold Ref, Audience Au24s, and Purist Venustas), and I have never loooked back. There is a reason why they are called "Reality". Check it out for yourself.

Gregg's service has been A-1 in my book, and I would not hesitate to buy from him him again.

Angelsmtn, what cable do you use?

May I second the comments of Jp1208 as I have used with great success Reality IC's and Speaker Cables in five different systems (different systems at different times).
Impressive in all five. You get to really hear what your components can do.
I realize Angelsmtn reports a different view. My own experience has been favorable. There is a quiet background with reproduction that can be described as full of life and overall a tremendous performer.
Each person can listen, and make up his/her own mind.
Another source of information about Reality is the Audiogon dealer, Clearsound, for those who realize it is always in the interest of a dealer to approach audio shows with their best wiring.

Mtrot, I don't know if you are done looking but I am having tremendous results with the Reality cables. They are extremely revealing. Well balanced top to bottom and a steal at there price point. In my system they really grabbed me. I changed one power cord and noticed the effect right away. I went to a 10 awg shielded power cord on the cdp and these speaker cables let me know I went in the right direction. I will be considering putting some good money into power cords now.

Mtrot, I have some first-hand experience with some of the mfgrs you're inquiring about. Based on massive research from Audiogon threads I decided to check out Audio Horizons and Reality Cables.

Audio Horizons
Met Joseph Chow. He invited me to his home on a Saturday morning to listen to his pre-amp and DAC. I think he makes good equipment, and I liked the way his equipment sounded -probably the most articulate sounding pre-amp I've heard. At the time, I chose not to purchase his gear, but my decision was based on his ability to support the product given the growth stage of his little company (fledgling) at the time. But Joseph seems like an honest and respectable guy, and I absolutely would do business with him. I listened to his cables (balanced and unbalanced) in his system, and they were good. As I haven't listened to the cables in my system, I really can't give you a good reference point. But I do think his cables positively contributed to the overall sound quality of his system. I can give more specifics in email if you like.

Reality Cables
Based on audiogon threads, I had truly high hopes. I ordered interconnects and speaker cables based on blind audiogon faith. These cables completely took the life right out of my system. I had multiple sets of both interconnects and speakers cables. All performed equally poorly. Gregg sent more cables (burned in, SS specific, balanced, etc). Same result. Terrible performance. I tried every imaginable combination. Same result - terrible. I sent everything back.

It took months to get most of my money back, and to get Gregg to honor his "20 day money back guarantee."

Terrible experience.

Email me if you want specifics.

Trialed a pair of name brand cables from my local high-end hi-fi dealer -viola!

At least I'm not losing my mind.

Mtrot, may I remind you that Alpha-Core has a very generous trial period. You could try another run, and see if it works for you. If it doesn't, all you'll loose is a very modest (heck, cables don't weight much) shipping fee, if you decide that you like them, you can sell your existing cables right here on Audiogon. In the mean time, just putting on jumpers and running one run, might be interesting. While I am a big fan of the Alpha-Core cables, my experience mirrors yours. They don't accentuate the bass, but, boy oh boy, do they really open things from there on up. I don't think just substituting cables in an effort to mimick another system in another room is very realistic. Best of luck. Keep us posted.

Unsound,

No, not yet. I have a bi-wire set of Tara Labs RSC Prime(at least 10 years old) in there, which have always sounded pretty good to me. I have been thinking about trying the MI-2s, bi-wired, in there to see if they can make a significant improvement over the Taras. But I would have to shell out another $200, which is a lot of bread to me, in order to find out. I guess I could try them as a single run, just to hear the basic sound differences.

That's a good question Unsound. Glad you thought of it : )

The Sig II's and the Classic's have different bass alignments. As such, they will not only sound different, but also load the amp differently. Both designs ( in stock form ) have a pronounced bass peak at a relatively high frequency ( 90 - 120 Hz ), so room placement and nodes can really come into play. This is besides any other speaker / room interphase situations taking place, which can also effect imaging, soundstage, etc...

Due to the difference in loading on the amp, the Classic's may simply require more than what your receiver can cope with. You might want to try swapping both the speakers and speaker cables in your main system and see how things work there. If you can get the results that you want with either set of speakers and / or either set of speaker cables in the main system, then you know it has to be room and / or "power" related in the secondary system. Sean
>

Mtrot, just curious, did you try the Goertz cables in the better room?

D_dewards,

I really do appreciate your efforts to assist my hapless self! The cables under consideration in this thread are for another system in the back room, which has Legacy Classics for the L/R, along with a Legacy "Satellite" for the center speaker. The Nak receiver is about 5-6 years old, and seemed to sound pretty good in the other system with the Legacy Sig IIs.

I am now considering several possible culprits as to why the sound is not so good(poor soundstage and imaging) in the back system:

Room reflections/bad room dimensions.
52"RPTV between speakers.
Panny RP91 DVD/DVD Audio player(one of the first DVDAudio players) player as source.
Nak receiver problems.
Legacy Classics not nearly as good as the Signature IIs.

As I said, the Goertz cables do seem to improve the sound noticably over the stranded cables. But nothing like what I am getting in the other room system.

As far as the Nak receiver's volume control, what kind of shop can address the issues you mention?

D_Edwards: I have several pieces of audio gear that are 20+ years old that still measure within spec and sound quite good. Age has little to do with actual performance so long as the unit has been used on a regular basis and hasn't been thoroughly abused and / or in a severe environment. Regular use not only keeps the caps energized, but problems related to thermal drift are also minimized. Simple rotation of the controls and flipping of the switches i.e. "normal use" also helps to keep oxidation and pitting from damaging said controls.

Other than that, my suggestion as to speaker cables were for the long term. That suggestion was also made in response to a specific question that someone had posted.

As a side note, just because someone is using "Brand X" gear today, that doesn't mean that they will be using that tomorrow or in two years. I know that the cables that i recommended can work quite well with these speakers and are capable of revealing what the electronics up-stream are capable of. Whether or not one likes what they hear with these cables in the system will depend on how pure & stable the signal is being fed into the speaker cabling and / or the end users own personal preferences.

As such, improving the signal fed into it these speaker cables will improve the performance of the system as a whole. I make mention of this as not all speaker cables are capable of revealing the differences in components, simply because the cables themselves introduce their own sonics and electrical loading characteristics into the equation. Should Mtrot ( or anyone else in this situation ) choose to upgrade their components, there would be no need to upgrade their cabling. After all, this cable has been shown to be linear to well beyond 100 KHz, offering minimal signal degradation within or anywhere near the audible passband.

Other than that, i agree that one should have "timbre matched" speakers at all points in a multi-channel system. I also think that one should have "timbre matched" amplification at all points in a multi-channel system. That's why i took the approach that i did with my multi-channel system. Sean
>

MTrot,

Remember me, I'm the guy who's been trying to help you on two threads fix your systems and expressly said cables 1. will not help your system! 2. You will not get good sound out of your surround system until your buy the matching Legacy center.

2 months later are you getting to see things my way?

Forget those other "experts" who didn't know enough to realise that a 15 year old Nakamichi is going to have some serious biasing issues that cause sibilance and slurring and your amplifier likely needs an overhaul right down to cleaning the contacts on the volume control. 200 cables, oxidized volume control= bad sound

Mtrot, I'm wasn't trying to be contrary I am trying to save you MONEY and have you INVEST in areas that will make a REAL difference with both your systems. So now you know what I already knew....cables aren't that big of deal. Especially when you amplifier is out of spec.

Fact is with a Nakamichi and Legacy $1/ft Monster Cable will do the trick. get your Nak tuned up, and back to the MUSICAL bliss with $20 in cables. Can you bear to be different, can you bear to be smarter?

If you own a receiver do not waste money on expensive cables! no exceptions

I saw a Legacy Center channel on Ebay for $350...go! go ! go!

Mtrot, I think your on the right track.

Well, I picked up a set of Goertz MI-2, and briefly evaluated them over the weekend. They replaced a set of stranded Esoteric cables that I have had for many years.

The MI-2 is definitely clearer and more coherent. I think the timbral accuracy of instruments is better. I don't notice any more or deeper bass.

But the improvement is not as much as I had hoped. The soundstage and imaging is not very good.

It seems I have some other problems in that system. I need to get some acoustical treatments, and I need to figure out if the Nak receiver has gone bad(it used to sound pretty good in the other room). I also need to see if there is a problem with the Legacy Classics. I had been assuming, if I used better cables, they should perform similarly to my Legacy Signature IIs in the other room, but maybe that is not the case. The Sig IIs throw an expansive soundstage, with much greater imaging.

Perhaps I was overestimating the contribution of speaker cables to the overall sound result. If these Legacy Classics cannot sound significantly better than this, I am going to want to try something different.

Reality Cables.After having bought and used many hi end cables.I think they are a bloody steal, and makes me wonder why all the expensive cables. I still have expensive ic's and power cables but the speaker cable being the last cable in the chain it may also be the most forgiving.I really like them and by rights should have much more $$ % in my speaker cable.I have simple system but it was not cheap.But hey I really like the Reality cables,so a few other friends have them now.Christ they only cost a few tanks of gas.

If there is a Goertz home trial offer, and you like them a lot, then you can choose them, and own a great value in cables.
Otherwise, a Reality home trial will surely impress you, as it did me, directly comparing the two companies.
Although it is not possible to audition too many competitors in you stereo setup, it really is not better to add up votes for one or the other here on Audiogon. Only what is heard in your own unique setup is important.

I have heard some LAT speaker wire(do not know the model but around $400)that was absolutely pedestrian and the Goertz easily beat it.

The Goertz will give you deep bass. If you like them in the center channel you will love them in the rest of your system. I compared them recently in my system to the Supra Sword cables that cost close to $1000. While I thought the Swords were excellent cables and did a lot of things right, they did not convince me to replace the Goertz.

Well, I have not yet purchased any cables for the Legacys, but I just yesterday received a single run of Alpha Core Goertz MI-2 speaker cable for my center channel speaker in the front system. The MI-2 replaces a run of Speltz anti-cables which have done pretty well.

I have only so far listened to one movie, but I do believe the Goertz are going to knock off the anti-cables. The highs are definitely cleaner and better. It actually seems like there is MORE high frequency information there, if that is possible. This is not to say excessive HF response, and I do not detect any added sibilance.

So, as a result of this improvement in the center channel speaker, I am leaning towards the MI-2 for the Legacys in the back system. The only fly in the ointment is that the center channel speaker only goes down to about 55hz, so I can't tell anything about the MI-2's deep bass prowess.

My main contenders are now the Goertz MI-2, Straley Reality cable, Audio Art SC-5, Audio Horizons, LAT International SS-800.

Any thoughts?

Reality Cables, by Greg Straley, by leaps and bounds.

Thanks, let me know how the sc5s work out. I am currently using a set of Audio Art IC-1 ics on the system for which I am looking for speaker cables.