Audio Dropping Out on Rega Apollo and Saturn

Hi everyone,
here we are 9 years later. Did rega ever own up to this manufacturing defect? Did they ever offer a software update? I still have my Apollo, it sounds great when it works.  I don’t listen to cds a ton anymore with my blue sound and turntable sounding so good. When i do listen to cds it’s a crap shoot if it will be relaxing or annoying experience. 
I love to hear rega eventually issued a software update.

I own a Saturn that I bought here. It is now starting to act up more. Initialization is slower and "disc empty" shows up more often. All cd's are factory burned. It has been very humid here in the Northeast and I thought that this may be the cause.

@1kitch
Where are the laser tracks that you lubricated? how do I identify them?

@stevea
I can see the laser sled. You just moved it and didn't lubricate it?

Thanks for the heads-up on the lubrication issue. After sitting idle for a year, my Apollo would not respond to a loaded disc. I used my thumb to exercise the laser sled back and forth and voila! Now I need to figure out how to get the cover off to carefully apply some lube.

Steve

FWIW, apart from the transport, another possible source of any problems is the ribbon, which may need replacing.
I previously purchased a used demo and had to have the ribbon and laser replaced by Rega's US service centre (got my money back though). My brand new one is performing flawlessly and is reading all my burned CDR's. I was also advised by the service centre to leave it turned on all the time.

Just checked this thread to find three new responses.

The lubrication issue is interesting and worth following up.

Thanks everyone.

I agree with Cableplex, as I had the same problem on my Apollo with long disc read times, audio dropouts and No Disc read errors, until it failed to function entirely. I applied a light coat of sewing machine oil to the laser tracks utilizing a q-tip and it now reads discs as quickly as it did on day one, and no more dropouts. I was able to move the laser head by rotating the exposed gear. When I get some time, I plan to figure out how to remove the cover so I can apply a drop of oil to each gear bearing as well.

Well, I bought an Apollo, 35th Anniversary SE (couldn't resist when I found out my dealer had a couple still left), and it failed the first day I had it! I played one song, hit STOP, and it wouldn't. Opened the lid, it kept playing. When the disc finally stopped, the Apollo had trouble recognizing when the door was opened or closed, and it wouldn't initialize discs (and by extension does not play anymore - the disc doesn't even spin). It's currently in for repair.

I'll tell you this though - it sounded amazing for that half hour it worked. It seemed to really have synergy with my Audiolab 8000S and Quad 12L2 speakers. I can't wait to get it back, but whether I keep it long-term or not I don't know. It's going to have to play reliably over the next couple of years.

For what it's worth, I owned a Saturn for a few months last year (purchased brand new) and had the same issues as Fillmoor. Namely, the player not responding properly to remote control commands to change song (it would go to the wrong song), and also cutting out the first second or so of pretty much every track that I skipped to. If I hit stop then it seemed to right itself more or less, and unplugging the unit would right it entirely (for a little while). Not major problems, but annoying all the same. I traded the Saturn in for another player, but it was so that I could get the matching player for my amp (not because of the issues I had).

I'm considering the purchase of an Apollo now (yes I switch gear too much - I'm still trying to figure out what I want from my system). I'd buy Rega again if I determined it was the best player for my current set up, but as of this moment I'm considering various options. I'm not too worried about the glitches as I'm confident I'd have the support of my dealer, but of course it's a tick against Rega when comparing with other brands. They may just be glitches today, but what'll they be five years from now?

I was able to fix my apollo. The problem is due to a sticky laser transport. I noticed any time I would get the "no-disc" error, that I could not hear the laser move. In fact, I noticed it would always be in the same position.

I was able to gently (with force) move the laser assembly all the way out and then back to the inner position. This cured the problem for about 30 mins, until it started dropping audio and then would not read the cds again.

I then lubed all the gears and track with very light machine oil. Haven't had a problem since.

I’m UK-based, and coming to this thread very late in the day, but can say “You are not alone.” inasmuch as I’ve experienced most of the reported issues with my own Saturn.

Today I’ve had it tell me that a disc was empty when it clearly wasn’t. After this I hit play on another disc and it showed me the “play” symbol but the clock stayed at 00.00 and I had to hit stop and play again in order to get the disc to start.

I’ve experienced the “unstoppable machine” syndrome and I’ve also experienced the loss of the first second or so of many tracks when selected directly. The only way to get past this issue is to use the silent rewind and stop the rewind just before the end of the previous track.

Also, the player almost consistently ignores the first play command from the remote. Instead, it responds only to the fourth or fifth pressing of the button. And that’s allowing for the fact that the remote must be pointed directly at the CDP for it to notice your commands at all.

Getting it out of programme mode when I’ve accidentally chosen the wrong track can also be quite an adventure.

All in all it has gotten me down a lot over the nearly three years that I’ve owned it.

My first Rega CDP was an early Apollo, and this exhibited a loud transformer hum along with many of the other problems listed above. Instead of a direct warranty replacement I opted to upgrade to the Saturn after being tempted by my hi fi dealer’s description of it as a “stonker”. A side by side audition demonstrated that the Saturn was indeed the “better” player and so extra cash was handed over, resulting in the rather chunkier Saturn taking its current place in my hi fi rack.

(I’ve put “better” in quotes because I suspect that it was only emotionally better on selected vocal tracks and that the rest of “better” was based upon an analysis of things like detail resolution, speed and punch. All of these things have value, but aren’t perhaps as important as musicality and general emotional involvement.)

I reported my problems to my dealer, but this got me nowhere. I never reported the problems to Rega, however, because time never really allowed.

Being a bit of a sentimentalist, I also never got rid of my old Rotel RCD 965 BX LE Discrete (try saying that after a drink or two) CD player. This has been handy when entertaining since waiting 12 seconds for a CD to load and then another similar length of time for the player to notice that you want it to play the CD and then to get to the right track and actually play something can destroy the musical flow when I’m in DJ mode. Moreover, some tracks actually still sound better on the Rotel inasmuch as the emotion and musicality is there, even if some of the clarity and detail is missing.

The Saturn is great on modern vocal recordings, bringing out the loneliness and isolation in Bruce Springsteen’s “Streets Of Philadelphia” and also in Sarah McLachlan’s “Angel”. However, put on old mono recordings such as Frank Sinatra’s “In The Wee Small Hours Of The Morning” or Brenda Holloway’s “Every Little Bit Hurts” and the Rotel beats it hands down.

All in all, I probably agree with Philjul on Audioreview.com when he said

“Overall this is a very decent machine but after two years of listening to it I have come to the conclusion that it is not as musical as the previous Rega Planet I owned which was less than half the price. The Saturn certainly has many qualities and "objective" improvements over the Planet (I never listened or owned the Jupiter so I cannot compare it to that one). It has a much deeper soundstage, wider frequency with much better top and bottom end, and a cleaner treble. It is also much more adept at playing classical music as it is more detailed and possesses much better dynamics. Despite all this, it fails to take hold of me in a way that the more humble Planet did.”

Perhaps the Apollo would have been a better compromise in this respect, costing less than half as much but having a slightly warmer feel. With less money spent, however, I might have replaced it by now with a player that also played what I wanted it to play when I wanted it to be played.

So, my longer term aim is for a player that offers a different balance of emotion versus analysis – just like my old Rotel still does after 15 years – but better than the Rotel, and that also works properly.

Any suggestions?

Well I want to say my Rega Jupiter 2000 has worked perfect for many years and I prefer the sound of it to any cd machine I have ever owned. It was only the Apollo and Saturn I had trouble with, all other Rega gear I have used is fine (turntables, amps, cartridges). In general cd players are not as reliable than other components but clean discs and lens mechanism should ensure performance for several years. Some time has passed since this thread was started by Wackass. Basically I have forgiven the experience I had and remain a Rega user, in fact I now use an all Rega system comprising Elicit amp, Jupiter 2000 cdp, P5/exact table, and RS3 speakers. Widely overlooked here in the US, Rega speakers have long received great accolades over in the UK with which I concur.

Wow, I am glad I saw this thread. I had listened to the Rega's carefully many years ago when they were getting wonderful reviews and comments and was not impressed with the sound. I had listened to the subsequent models and felt that there was noticeable improvment in performance. Finally, having seen a lot of people speak even more highly of the new models, I though perhaps I would give them another chance and consideration since I am in the market again for another CDP. I had heard reliability issues long ago in the past and figured they had been corrected - there are many ademant owners (reference Mrstark above, and having read many of his other ? comments in threads). Based on the high volume of these units used and the frequency of relatively new units available used, I think I will take a pass on the Rega again. I have owned many excellent CDP, many much better than the Rega line, I have only once had a problem with a CDP (many, many years ago with an old EAD transport).

Wow, I did not realize my initial thread would strike such a chord with the Audiogon community. But welcomed all the responses/feedback that was received.

Just an update..........

I decided not to purchase a Rega CD player after all, based on my user experiences with the Apollo and Saturn dealer demos. I chose an Ayre CX7e instead for a couple of months. But was not really a synergistic match with my system, a little too analytical sounding for my taste. I finally settled on a mint Sonic Frontiers SFCD-1 tube CD player and am very happy now.

Unfortunately no.. I always wondered how they compared.. considering the 840c is almost $1,000 less!

Did you ever get a chance to compare it to the Cambridge 840C????

I sold it to upgrade to the Saturn.. so far 4 weeks and no issues!! :)

Since I've unplugged it overnight on approx 3/17, I haven't had any problems. I've tried doing all the things that made it freeze up before, and it hasn't happened. For arguement's sake, I don't leave it on 24/7 (never have), and listen about 3-4 times per week.

Just so "prospective buyers" on Audiogon know...

Rega does not extend their warranty to buyers of used units from original owners. They honor their warranty for 3 years - only to the original buyer!

So... if you are considering buying a "used" unit on Audiogon, eBay, or wherever... either make certain the seller will honor the warranty, or facilitate your warranty claims though their Rega dealer... or... know you're buying without any warranty.

That's critical information, since these units are notorious for their problems.

Hello Darrens, see you are sellng your Apollo. Why so???
Mr_m

Almost 3 months on mine and no issues so far.. hmmm.. guess I am lucky! ;)

Kbarkamian, I was using store bought perfect condition cd's. I do have cdr's but play them on my Denon 2910. Initialization failures were in the range of 1 of every 15 or 20 discs with all 4 machines. I rarely used the fast foward/rewind function. Once in awhile I play my guitar along to certain songs and like to go back to certain parts. That's when I realized to not bother using the foward/back function, it's worthless. The freezeup you describe is fairly typical, the machine locked and no longer responded to any command. However I've had them lock up without using any function (remote or panel). I put a disc in, play a few songs, press stop and it does'nt....have to turn the power off like you did. Another time the display just froze up all on its own (track and time froze as disc kept playing), and then when I press stop, it does'nt. My experience with the unplugging "fix" is that the bugs always return without exception, so let us know if it works for you. Different machines do different things, please inform us of any other quirks you have, but use regular cd's, as cdr's can be prone to problems in any player. Any cd player can do a couple funky things, but this is usually after years of use, the regas are funky out of the box and do things I have never seen any cd player do.

Kbarkamian, I believe the problems will return. I had a couple units which could go a week without any problems, then they'd surface. Display not coming back on? Have not heard that one before. Add it to the list...

I haven't ever had a disc fail to initialize. Are these originals, or are they CD-Rs? I read somewhere (maybe the manual?) that CD-Rs shouldn't be burned at more than 6x. Every disc I've burned, I've burned slower than that for this reason.

Maybe my descriptions of the problems in my previous post was misleading. The Apollo never stops playing when it "freezes". It stops responding to any commands from the remote and face plate and keeps playing until I shut it off. Also keep in mind that it never happens when I enter a track number on the remote, it only happens with RW, FF, and skip forward and backward.

The only other problem is that sometimes the display doesn't come back on after I turn it off. If I turn the unit off, it'll come back on when I turn the unit back on.

Hopefully that makes some more sense.

I unplugged it overnight about a week ago. It hasn't had any problems since. I've intentionally tried to get it to act up a few times by rewinding and fast forwarding erraticly, but it hasn't had any hiccups. The display has been fine too.

I don't know how long it'll last, but it seems like it solved the problem. Before I unplugged it, it would have acted up with far less coaxing. Its only been a week though.

Also, in my previous post, I stated "...should happen in the repair shop...", when it should have read "...it should not happen in the repair shop due to being unplugged for sufficient time."

Thanks for your comments Kbarkamian. Maybe there is something to your theory. But it does not explain other stuff. There are a number of other issues these machines have besides the fast foward freezing up. Is failure to initialize a disc or failure to stop static too? I used 4 of the new Rega machines over 2 years and these new Rega players do things that are plain weird on a year round basis, by contrast I never had a single problem (not a one) with the previous Rega players. I'm sticking to bugs in the operating software as the true reason these machines do the things they do. Please Let us know if the unplugging fix works long term.

I just bumped into this thread. I've also had some problems with my Apollo freezing up. If I fast forward or rewind too much, it'll stop responding to any commands from the remote or face controls. It'll keep playing the current track, but won't do anything else. I have to shut it off. However, it doesn't happen when I hit the track number instead of the FF/RW buttons for some reason.

My dealer (who is great, BTW) called Rega's US distributer (who is also great). The response my dealer got was that its caused by a build up of static electricity, or something along those lines. They said that the chipset used is very similar to chipsets used in cable boxes, which can have similar issues. Sound Oraganization advised to leave it unplugged overnight to discharge the static electricity (also stated by Steve above). If it didn't work, they'd take the unit in for repair/replacement.

Since I've unplugged it overnight, I haven't had any problems. My dealer said they were told it can happen every now and again, as static electricity builds back up.

It makes sense to me for a few reasons -
I've had it a little over a year and never had any problems in the summer. The only time was in the winter, when static electricity is at a peak.
Now that I think about it, my cable box needs to be unplugged and allowed to reboot every now and again (about 2 or 3 times in the last 3 years). Its also only done this in the winter. My cable company said that it was due to static electricity.

Not that I'm saying a $1000 (or a $2200) CD player should have these problems, but it seems logical. It also seems logical that the problems would happen it the repair shop because the CD players would have been unplugged for a good amount of time before they got there.

If the thing didn't sound so good, I'd have returned it. As much as I hate to say it, I can live with having to unplug it overnight once in a while. If unplugging it stops working, I'll take it up with my dealer/Sound Organization.

Has anyone else had problems after unplugging it overnight?

shoez23, there has been no response from Rega UK about the bugs these machines exhibit. But there is a response from the US Rega distributer above (Steve Daniels- the sound organization). He says there has been almost no problem with the machines and that faults were limited to 5% of only the very first production run of Apollo machines- not the later production Apollos or Saturns. My count stands at 22 faulty machines among 11 different users (4 of which I used myself over a 2 year period- 3 Apollos and 1 Saturn), of course my knowledge is limited to users who post on forums. There are about 30 users that report no problems. I'd say that is higher than 5%. The problems are failure to access correct track via the remote, failure to respond to stop function on remote or machines panel which requires the power to be turned off to change a disc, initialization failures in the range of 1 out of every 15 or 20 discs, leaving out the first second or two of a track, audio drop outs when playing slightly scratched discs, freeze up of machine when accessing tracks, and freeze up of time and track disply (a time and track number are frozen in display as the disc continues to play through). As I do above I'd like to say that The sound organization and dealers have provided good customer service and replaced machines without quibble. Unfortunately I never had one that worked right. Obviously They do not manufacture the machines, Rega UK does and they have no comment on the issue. There are plenty of users that report no issues but my own experince and that of others indicates that there are bugs in the operating software of the new Rega players. The problems are intermittent, Regas suggested solution is to unplug the machine overnight to let it "reset". My own experience is that the bugs always return after trying the "reset".

We hope you enjoy this very special CD player; we have spent a very long time creating it, drawing on all of our 32 years of experience in specialist Hi Fi manufacturing.From above ,they knew of the problems,and right at that point said we send the units out or we dont,well we found out which they chose.

Do you really think they would fess up to making a bunch of wacky functioning machines,Cmon.

Whys has there not been an official response from Rega UK -for the record?

Indeed Rega has made no secret of all this, actually they made a big deal that they were the first ones to use the new system (which will probably eventually appear in other players as well), what they do make a secret of is that there are still bugs in the system.

In addition, I inquired of Rega why the units have silent FF function as opposed to virtually every other player under the sun. The answer I was given was that particular functionality had not been built into the chip set. It certainly opens up the possibility that there have been some other glitches in the operating system.

Thanks for the lead on that article!

In addition, this is straight out of their Apollo manual on their website.

To the best of our understanding, there have only ever been five large multinational companies with the technology and knowledge base to develop the remarkably complex operating software for CD players.

Development of this software and chip-sets to operate CD transports was generally curtailed around eight to ten years ago. All development effort was directed towards the
design of DVD players and other advanced formats.
Rega and other specialist Hi Fi manufacturers were totally reliant on companies like Sony and Phillips to supply transports and their operating chip-sets.

In 2003 Sony stopped supply and sent the specialist Hi Fi industry into a flurry of activity in search of feasible alternatives. Many manufacturers were able to resource their supply from Far Eastern companies.

Rega has worked hard in locating a British software company who were in the development of a totally new disc operating system. A system, which was highly advanced, even in the early development stages.

Rega is the only manufacturer to develop the unique new disc operating system. Due to ever increasing computer processing power and memory fabrication it has been possible to build in an enormous amount of memory capacity. This has allowed the data retrieval to meet the original CD 'Red Book' specifications without compromise to the musical performance. All previous chip-sets were unable to achieve this due to their limited memory and signal processing capacity.

Rega's new British designed chip set contains over 20MB of memory with 32 bit digital signal processing capacity and Rega has used this computing power to give a far greater musical performance.

We hope you enjoy this very special CD player; we have spent a very long time creating it, drawing on all of our 32 years of experience in specialist Hi Fi manufacturing.

Doug, It is in the Sam space (stereophile) review of the Saturn and there is also information about it on Regas own website if you click on the review link to "what russ andrews thinks about the saturn". Sony and phillips announced awhile back that they would stop making chipsets for cd players. A british software company thought that people would still be buying cd players and began to develope a new system, using the original Phillips/Sony "Redbook" as a point of reference. Rega entered into a partnership with this as yet unknown company (anonymity was part of Regas partnership agreement). Here's a qoute from the sam space article, Sam consulted directly with Rega founder Roy Gandy for this article. "Some venture capitalits in the UK foresaw that the chipsets would cease to become available, while sales of cd players would continue, so they set up a company with between 20 and 40 computer software engineers, none of them from hi-fi, and fed them the original Sony/Phillips "redbook"." If you read the russ andrews article it basically rehashes the above and mentions that Rega was "to assist with debugging".

Fillmoor, where are you getting this information about computer/software guys designing the system? It would certainly explain why oversights like a silent FF function could occur. I have never heard of an audiophile cdp with a silent FF! Makes it a fairly useless feature. I was told that functionality was not built into the chip set. If there were computer/software guys designing it, that would surely explain it!

Dick, My undestanding is that the system was designed by computer/software guys as opposed to audio guys. Rega gave the "redbook" to them and they created the new operating system. So, As you say you'd think they would have the foresight to allow updates since the Apollo was in effect the guinea pig for this new system. However Rega does not feel there is a problem, as the US Rega distributer states. To put things into perspective Denon provided a firmware update because machines did not play "Raging bull" DVD correctly. Keep using your machine with regular store bought redbook cd's and see how it goes. Certain dual discs and hybrids are not redbook compliant and may not work correctly in some machines. CDR's are going to be ify in any machine too. My experience with the Apollo and Saturn bugs relates to playing perfect condition store bought standard redbook cd's- not cdr's, not hybrids or dual discs.

Fillmore, yes that's what I have experienced but I don't remember having a problem with normal CDs. I only have one hybrid SACD at this point but it seems fine as well. Not being able to see the code that went into the operating system, it's impossible to say whether an entire rewrite would be necessary or just some tweaking of the code. To my mind, a more important issue is how they would update the enormous number of machines they have sold in the past 2-3 years. If they didn't have the foresight to use a flashable chip on the logic board (or at least a pluggable chip), updating would be way too expensive a proposition if the problems were acknowledged as bugs. Some computer companies have slipped bug fixes in with feature updates to their programs. That way they don't have to admit to the bugs and don't have to notify all their customers even if the patch is user-installable. They figure that most users will eventually install the patch and the bug fix as well and they're not out the expense of all those notifications. But again, this presumes that the user CAN install the patch.

Dick, thanks for checking back and posting. The problems are usually occaisional and intermiitent, and hence why Rega says they are unable to duplicate them, so to them there are no problems. Any serviced or replacement machine will eventually exhibit the exact same issues. I'm convinced that they are caused by bugs in the operating software/chipset of Regas new operating system. In my opinion, To really address the issues would require an entire rewrite of the operating software, something they will not invest in presently, I'd say the jury is out on these machines. Apparently it is'nt so easy to replicate the Phillips/Sony "redbook" system which was many, many years in the making (I know because a friend of mines dad used to work for Phillips).

Doug,

I suppose you could say that. It also helps when you see others are having the same issues. As I said, my recollection is that it happens with CD-Rs and it's easy to believe that the problem lies with the discs and not my $1,000 CD player. Additionally, I dismissed it as a problem *for me* since I really don't play CD-Rs that much. Sort of like it's nice to know that I can play mp3s but I almost NEVER do that. If there are issues with mp3s I would never have encountered them.

Now that I've seen the problems others are having, I'll pay more attention to the exact circumstances and report back if I come up with anything. I'll also be following these threads more closely from now on to see if we get any resolution. Given the number of units Rega has sold, unless this is a field updatable issue I doubt we'll see any resolution.

Dick

Dick, so you thought you had a perfect unit as of about 3 weeks ago when you posted? Using the commands more (as opposed to simply putting on a disc and playing it through) exposed the issues with your player?

Because the problems are intermittent it's easy to think that either it was some anomaly which cannot happen again, or that you did something wrong with the input. But, when it happens enough times over the course of days or weeks the realization comes that there IS a problem with the player.

Hmmm, glad checked back in on this thread. I had let it slip from my mind (all too easy these days). I have not experienced most of the problems noted above but I do tend to mostly listen to entire discs. I have not yet had a disc that refused to stop playing. However, I have occasionally had initialization problems and, now that you mention it, I've had problems skipping to the correct track (from the remote). This happened just yesterday. My recollection is that this mostly happened with CD-Rs and I had just chalked it up to the vagaries of cheap media, etc. although I am careful with my burns and always use 8x (my CD-RW won't burn any slower).

Doug is correct, you definitely learn quickly to leave the player alone until the "Initialising" (for our UK friends) finishes. Steve's information on unplugging the player is interesting. As someone who works with computers, it is feasible that, since there may be current running through the player even when switched "off", it might accumulate and eventually be confused by those premature commands. Since I unplug my equipment when thunderstorms come through, I may have inadvertently avoided some of the problems. I do think they need to be fixed if there are problems. I also wonder what that fix would entail. I'm not sure that the firmware is flashable and the chip is probably soldered to the board although I confess that I don't know for sure on either of these issues.

I will say that my Apollo is one FINE-sounding CD player. Although I have not had dozens of players in my system, I never really understood what PRAT was until I found my foot tapping with the music while listening to it.

I hope we haven't scared Steve away from this thread as he would no doubt provide valuable insight, and possibly a conduit for communication, with Rega.

Dick

Hmmmm... and to think I passed on an 840c thinking it was less reliable! :)

People should test these machines for glitches from commands issued via the controlls on the face of the units. The first two I used ALSO glitched that way. I would not be surprised in the least if the defective units still exhibit this tendency. That convinced me long ago its NOT an RF issue.

Darrens, Absolutely there are plenty of people with these machines who report zero problems- as the reply from the Rega distributer may indicate. However I had 3 Apollo machines and a Saturn machine over a nearly 2 year period and every single one exhibited various combinations of the issues above. That is my own personal experience, so I am not jumping to conclusions. It has been suggested by a Rega dealer over on audioasylum that my problems and that of doug shroeder (who had 5 machines and none worked correctly) are related to RFI, and goes on to say that it is essentially just 2 guys that have problems with these machines. That theory does not hold water for me because my 3rd Apollo and my Saturn worked largely without incidnet for several months, and then started bugging out. Additionally doug shroeder had a malfucntion at an entirely different location when he took his machine to his dealer. Further I have knowledge of 3 other users that had errors on more than one Apollo machine. In total my count stands at 20 faulty machines among 8 different users. These errors include all of the known software bug issues on some of the machines, and the drop out/skip problem on others. The drop out issue is probably due to an explanation listed above. The machine sets itself to one of 3 error correction levels during initialization, and there are instances where it chooses a lower level of error correction for slightly scratched/marred discs which proves to be inadequate and causes the audio drop outs, or the "acoustic feedback" skips mentioned by a dealer above. I myself did not have drop outs, but 2 other posters above did. Other than disc initialiaztion failures and the drop out thing, most other problems are related to track access via the remote and the failure to respond to stop function and these will not be experienced by users who play entire discs. Initialization failures are in the range of about one of every 15 or 20 discs.

I still find it somewhat suspect that people are jumping to the conclusion that these players are unreliable and prone to breakdowns. I'm sure if we look at any manufacturers stats regarding their products we'd be hard pressed to find anyone with a 100% reliability score. Even carmakers such as Toyota (Lexus) and Honda (Acura) have vehicles that are lemons! I've experienced it first hand, but does that mean their whole lot is garbage?

I have not experienced any of the aforementioned problems with my Rega, and I've skipped tracks, but for the most part I play whole discs. So I guess you can add me to the "lucky" group?

At the suggestion of Fillmoor above, I will definitely post any problems that (hopefully do not) occur with my Saturn.

I totally agree with his comment that no player costing $2.5K should exhibit even the slightest problem. So, I will be keeping my fingers crossed for the next few months.

For the record I, too, previously owned (and recently sold) a Jupiter 2000, and it never gave me a lick of trouble.

WPM

I dont have any wifi or infrared device of any kind in my house. I dont even have a cell phone. For awhile I sometimes thought the unplugging suggestion made the problem go away, only to always have it return. Please let us know by email or posting if you experience the same malfunction despite having taken the ceiling fan out.

I am a recent owner of a Rega Saturn and have experienced only one of the problems mentioned. However, I was able to correct the problem very quickly. Let me explain:

If your home, like ours, is filled with numerous IR and WI-FI signals, resulting from wireless phones operating on 5.3MH, wireless computer routers, remote controlled ceiling fans, wireless keyboards, mice, X-Box 360s, etc., then it's no wonder some of these Rega's are going haywire. Think about the electromagnetic cross channeling that must be taking place inside ones household.

In my case it was the remote controlled ceiling fan being in close proximity to the Saturn. Evidentially, the signal, while small, was being constantly emitted so when I pushed a certain buttons on my Solar remote that function became interrupted.

I ended up having to disable the ceiling fans' remote function and all has been well with the Saturn ever since. I guess my point is, before you fault the operation of the player, do a quick IR and WI-FI check of your house, especially if these systems are close to your players.

Perhaps your problem is not that simple, but it may just be. If anything it is a good place to start.

I hope this helps.

WPM

Bassdude, I agree a seller should disclose to the buyer. Most but not all of the problems are experienced by users who do not play entire discs. I told my buyer of the intermiittent issues these machines have, he said he plays entire discs, so all he should get are infrequent initialization glitches. I did not become aware of the problems playing slightly marred cd's until after my sale, I myself never had this problem, all my discs played without skipping or dropping out ever. For those that dont need to access tarcks frequntly, all the used ones actually represent a bargain, because I am convinced if you buy a brand new one it will be exactly the same way. Rtilden thanks for weighing in on your experience. It is true cd players in general are not the most solid operaters, but I have never used a machine that does some of the things these new Rega players do. You can take some comfort in the fact that your user experience is not uncommon. I dont jump around all the time with my discs. I had times where after letting it load and initialize, I wanted to play a track other than the first and it would lock up. Other times I do want to go from number 5 to say number 9, and well it doesnt, it either goes to some other song or locks up. These types of things will bother some more than others, to me it is inexcusable in a 2600 dollar cd player and I doubt I am alone in that feeling.

In my case, I had trouble duplicating any specific problem, which made me wonder if the problem was user error or player related. Only a CD with a healthy scratch would act up the same way twice. All told, I have experienced probably 15 different incidents in 8 months of ownership, and some of them I do think were caused by user error. For me, I was glad to know that my machine wasn't defective; the commonly experienced minor glitches were testimony that my machine was no different from the others. It may seem strange, but I find comfort in that. Below are the types of things I experienced, which I hope will clarify.

-Disc would not initialize. I would sometime raise the lid while the disc was still spinning and trying to initialize, which , I think confused the initialzation program. Yes, I was hasty in some cases and did not wait the full 12 recommended seconds. I have since learned to push stop, lift the lid, rotate the disc 1/4 turn, then continue. Since I have done this, I have experienced only 1 problem which caused me to turn the player off then on to rectify the misbehavior.

-Dirty disc skipping/repeating/stopping. After cleaning the discs, I have experienced this problem only twice. After a second cleaning, the problem disappeared.

-Scratched disc skipping. Cleaning the discs helped a bit, but the Saturn does not like scratched CDs. No fix.

I don't jockey back and forth among tracks very often, but I do it a small amount on some pop stuff. I cannot truthfully remember any time where this caused a problem, but I can certainly see how this might confuse the software or cause some of the reported problems.

I hope that this helps those looking for a more detailed accounting. In the last 3 months (since I changed my user operation), I have experienced only 1 of these minor glitches. I call them 'minor' because I'm an audiophile from the older days who has put up with soooo much in the vinyl realm that it makes the CD world seem like a breeze. I have been in the company of other CDP's which have numerous problems relating to auto slide trays, and that is one issue the Saturn will never experience. This is a great player which can be occasionally finicky, but always enjoyable. I ain't gettin' rid of her!