That's an interesting journey! I'm surprised that anyone as handy as you bought one of these rather than DIY with a generic USC and Vinyl Spin or similar. For several years I've been using an Elmasonic and a DIY external pump and filter. No problems yet with the Elma or the filter/pump.
Audio Desk Systeme - Vinyl Cleaner – Repair of Water Pump Failure
After the water pump of my beloved Vinyl Cleaner from Audio Desk Systeme stopped working I searched the web and found that I’m not the only one with this problem. But nowhere did I find a blog or post that would describe a repair procedure – other than to mail the machine back to Germany for an expensive repair.
If your machine is still under warranty you should of course send it back for warranty repair. But if your machine is out of warranty (like mine) and your only option is to spend lots of money to get it fixed, you might want to consider repairing it yourself.
The way the vinyl cleaner is designed does not allow any maintenance or replacement of any component located inside the machine without destroying something. The whole machine is glued together! Something I have not seen before to this extent – especially not on a high dollar item like this. Only the components in the upper compartment where the white cleaning rollers are located can be accessed thru the opening in the top cover.
To get started you need to separate the bottom PVC plate from the bottom of the tank. Both plates are glued together. I used a flat pry-bar to carefully separate the bottom plate without breaking it. Shining a flash light thru the water sight glass you can see the blue water pump thru the drain hole of the tank.
To get to the water pump you need to remove the bottom of the tank (or parts of it) which is glued to the recessed side walls.
Use a permanent marker to draw straight lines on the tank bottom – 5 mm inbound from the side walls. The PVC side walls are 5 mm thick. Try to cut slightly inside that line to not cut into the recessed side walls. I used a Dremel with a cut-off wheel.
Once the bottom of the tank is removed you have access to the water pump and all other internal components. To disconnect the pump wires from the main board you need to remove the front panel with on/off switch. Follow the pump cable from the tank and disconnect both wires from the terminal.
In my case it turned out that the pump actually did not fail - it was simply seized up. Once I rotated the little impeller by hand and hooked it up to the 24 V DC power supply in the sink it started to pump fine again.
In case you find your pump to be dead and need a replacement look for “Barwig Tauchpumpe Typ 3 24 V DC”. Price is around 18 EUR (appr. 20 USD) at amazon.de or conrad.com. Unfortunately I was not able to find a supplier who would ship to the U.S.. You may need to be creative – or plan your next vacation in Germany ...
If you use aquarium grade silicone adhesive instead of strong PVC adhesive to put it all together you will be able to undo everything easier in case you need to access the inside of the machine again.
Feel free to email me if you have questions or need pictures.
Decibell
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@dgarretson I bought the Vinyl Cleaner a few years ago in German - at an amazing price. And since I exported it I did not pay the 19 % VAT. It worked great without any hick ups for about 1400 records. It's the best thing since they invented chocolate - as long as it works! But the way Reiner Glaess puts these things together really is an engineering shame! But when I bought it I did not know that it is all glued together. Taking it apart took me about one hour. Putting it back together another hour. Because it is extremely convenient and very efficient I will keep it and accept the messy design. |
I'll say it again - the OP makes me glad I bought a Loricraft PRC-4 over 12 years ago. So far (knock on wood) nary a problem, and it does a great cleaning job. That said, over the past few years there have been a number of reports on this forum of problems with the Audio Desk vinyl cleaning machine. If I were to go the ultrasonic route, I would choose DIY - - many choices available at a fraction of the cost of Audio Desk. |
I’ll say it again - the OP makes me glad I bought a Loricraft PRC-4 over 12 years ago. So far (knock on wood) nary a problem, and it does a great cleaning job .... I have had my Loricraft since the eighties..........zero problems and cleans extremely well and without the unwanted static charge the others create......... ( and so quiet it can be done while others are sleeping!......on the same street ,in the same house..... in the same room....) Seriously though , this is one of the obvious drawbacks I saw with the consumer bought ultra sonic types is accessibility and ease for the user to repair if needed. They seem to clean well enough , but durability and the length of in service with zero issues the Loricraft has been my experience owning for decades, personally, would be hard for me to see a change worthwhile to me. If I didn’t own a RCM , I likely still would lean toward the advantages the Loricraft offers my wants and it’s cleaning ability can’t be knocked. |
Decibell- I had the same issue with a pump failure on my original ADS Vinyl cleaner which was way out of warranty. When I contacted the importer about it (Ultra Systems), they had me send it to them for evaluation and possible repair. As alternative to repairing it, they offered me $3000- almost what I had paid for it - for my machine as an exchange towards a brand new Vinyl Cleaner PRO which has a long list of engineering improvements including ceramic bearings on the pump and motor AND came with a new 2 year warranty as well. Seems fair, and I was not about to cut into the machine like you did- that took guts! |
jwpstayman - Lucky you! That is quite a different story from what I read about others having to pay $800 plus $100 intl. shipping for an out of warranty repair. I bought my machine in Germany 6 years ago for $1600. Today's list price in the US is $4500 plus VAT - that is insane! Too many hands between manufacturer and end-user! After all it took me just two hours, and $10 for silicone to fix it. After 1400 cleaned records my investment is .07 cents and 5 seconds per cleaned record. And you don't see a thing from the outside since the bottom plate covers the silicone seam. It does such an amazing cleaning job while being convenient like a toaster that I will probably keep it until I'm deaf ;-) |
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@decibell - this is good information and worthwhile for someone who has an out of warranty unit that cannot be traded in for an upgrade. @jwpstayman is fortunate- Robert Stein at Ultra Systems, the distributor here in the States, has generally tried to accommodate customers with problems. I had one of the earlier AD units, before the new "Pro" model, which is supposed to be better, but I think all of these units (not just the AD) will eventually fail. I did talk to the distributor of Elma in the States about field replaceable parts and was told that was a non-starter-- I don't know if the ultrasonic transducers can be found on the open market-- i have to believe that unless there is some special tuning that is employed, that would be the other remaining 'part' that fails here. (The AD is obviously more complicated, with not only a drive system to spin the LP and a blower to dry the record, but also those rollers used as part of the wash cycle). As to Loricraft v ultrasonic, I have a Monks Omni- same principle --and still find that ultrasonic brings something extra to the cleaning process, so I use both. Thanks for the post, decibell. |
From my experience, AD units unfortunately are more prone to issues regardless of model but I also have the KLAudio unit which while a lot less reported issues, do have occasion problems as well. The difference for me at least is KLAudio is much more responsive and field service is actually possible. |
Make sure you use the AD unit relatively often, like once a week. Or empty the tank if not in use. If it sits a few weeks with water in it the pump gets unhappy and will eventually break. This is a problem with the first models more than the second Pro version which has an upgraded pump. I made the upgrade myself and I’m very happy with new AD unit but it’s still good practice to keep the water circulating or empty it. |
The issue with emptying the AD tank if not in use is the float can get stuck to the bottom and won’t budge. I have had that issue and was only remedied by leaving water in the tank for a period of time. What makes the pump stop working if it is immersed in water for a prolong period of time? Would be good to understand. |
Update. I finally opened up my unit and the water pump is dead not seized. It now appears AD uses several models on water pumps. Mine is black and appears to be China made OEM pumps which are easily replaceable. The bottom like is the water pump is easy to replace once you have gotten into the innards of the unit. |
About to perform the surgery as soon as I get mine back (see sad story below). Can I get some pics that shows the "innards" so I don’t go wrong? Have had the first generation of the AudioDesk cleaner for several years and it’s been a pretty bad experience. When it worked, it was great but ... After about a year the capstans rotating the record died. Sent of for repairs in Germany (I’m in Sweden), took about 2 months and cost about 5000 SEK (approx $500). About 4 months ago the waterpump died, sent it off for repairs again, only to be informed last week (it took freakin 4 months!) that it is "too old to be repaired", but they offered to sell me a new (now the "Pro" model) for half the retail price (approx $1800). Don’t even know if I’ll get my old machine back. Though it seems to be completely glued together, I thought I’d give it a try to replace the pump myself. Nothing to loose ... Dealer said that through the years he had about 30% of the first generation AudioDesk cleaners returned for repairs. Supposedly the current AudioDesk "Pro" model is more reliable, but I think I’m done with the Gläss Audiodesk as a company. Lookng at Degritter now as a promising alternative. |
Is this a suitable pump? Seems a bit big to fit inside the AD... https://www.conrad.com/p/barwig-03-24-low-voltage-submersible-pump-720-lh-6-m-1182010 |
Glaess recommends Tangit glue from Henkel for the PVC-U housing. PVC cement from Homedepot will probably work as well. Gutter sealant or strong silicone glue to secure the motor to the side wall. After you have cut the bottom open, you need to glue some small support angles to the inside of the housing to support the tank bottom in the right position since it is not resting on a rim anymore. Glue the tank bottom in place and glue the bottom plate to the outside walls so it creates a second seal. If anybody needs pictures feel free to email me direct. |
So a bit more on The Gläss business principles... As I said earlier my (non-Pro) machine was sent for repairs and deemed un-repairable by Gläss. I was offered to buy a new Pro model for half the price of a new one. Currently in Sweden the (list) price for a new model is 34,725 SEK (approx 3,625 US$), so I get a new Pro one for approx 1,811 US$. But the kicker is, according to the dealer, it’s either buy the new machine at the "discounted" price and they’ll (Gläss or the rep, in Denmark, not sure) will keep the old "un-repairable" machine. If I want the old machine back, the deal is off. So what am I supposed to do? Still cheaper than a new Degritter, but extortion-like business practice. |
@decibell Your post is a model for why fora like these should exist. Anyone who owns one of these machines should be grateful that someone (you) was ambitious and tenacious enough to tackle such a problem and then "bother" to post about. No snarkiness, pomposity or mean spirited attack...just useful, well intended information. |
@acresverde Thank you for the flowers! Always glad to help! Glaess possibly designed his cleaner the way he did to protect his idea. Unfortunately the price for this unmaintainability is paid by the owner - once it needs maintenance/repair. It is unfortunate that he does not handle repair cases to the full satisfaction of his customers. It is an extremely useful machine - when it works. But he makes it difficult to recommend his product .... |
decibell thanks for this really useful post on repairing the audio desk. My first died on me and was a pump failure. Replaced with the Pro at discounted price. After three years, the pump has died again - a totally unreliable product in my view for the money paid. German engineering at its worst! I'm not going to get another one even at a heavily discounted price so its DIY time. Would really appreciate some pictures/videos and other instructions that will be useful on this treacherous repair journey. PS not particularly light handed on repair jobs of this sort. Many thanks in advance. |
Thanks for this thread - I have found it most helpful - I will now take a soft mallet to try and remove the bottom plate of my Audio Desk Systeme Record Cleaner. The water stopped flowing through my machine so I think it is safe to assume it is the pump. Alas as this is the 4th failure in not quite 7 years. The first was under warranty while the next two repairs cost me over 1000euros - of which the second bill was 750euros only months after a previous repair with a similar fault. At least this time I got 3 years use and c 2200 records cleaned. But I can’t see myself shelling out again for such unreliable kit unless I want to go back to work. Kind of ****** off. |
Thanks for your post. I have the same model,not the new one Pro model. I wish to know which is the procedure to change the default water pump. I send you a message and my email asking you for photos and instructions to open the sealed with silicon bottom side. Also asking which is the replacement reference unit. Greetings, |
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Interesting idea! If the pump turns out to fail more frequently this could be a way to make it more accessible. However, once the bottom plate and tank bottom are attached with silicone and/or gutter sealant, removing them will be much easier than with an original machine. So far my cleaner performs fine after the repair I did a few months ago. |
I’ve had several people I know try to get these units serviced. They’re not serviceable and the only way to recover some of your losses is to reinvest more money into a new one at cost. I wouldn’t touch this product; even the latest version which is suppose to be more reliable. At $4500. You would think it would last a good 20 years without issues. Yes I heard the sonic improvements, but for my money reliability and serviceability are of equal importance. |
Wouldn't it be nice if we can get Reiner Glaess to revise his design and incorporate a removable bottom plate and tank cover to be able to access all internal components without having to physically cut anything open? Reiner, you just lost another potential customer! If you read this, please consider a design change! Your machine is great, as long as it works. But people shy away from it due to the fact that it is not repairable (without using a cutting tool). Imagine the engine hood of your car cannot be opened without cutting into it ... |
My AD had been sitting unused for a year following the pump stopping (4th AD failure and first failure of replacement machine). After recently looking at a friends AD that was having problems [it stopped rotating the records in the drying cycle] I changed his drive bands and flushed it through several times with with hot water and a soft cleaner [it was mighty dirty inside] to try and get it working, and it did. So I flushed mine through and low and behold the pump started working again. So far it has worked a 100 cycles since. The learning is that pumps stick and might be persuaded to unstick, drive bands wear and can make you think you have a different problem, and you need keep your AD clean if you want clean records. |
I am an happy owner od Audio Desk Vinyl Cleaner (not PRO) and in my opinion this is a very efficient sistema of LP washing. But I begin to have trouble with it, me too. Sometimes the rolling cleaner barrel do not touch the record but I do a light finger pression on them. Lastly they do not move at all, and I have to start again and again tilt they move. Have anyone an idea of the reason? What can I check or do to fix this problem? |