Art Dudley Calls B.S. but without naming names - PLEASE DO!

jhills
@geoffkait
Right?
Regardless, the quot still holds true...Jim

Hey, whatev.

@johnk  A bit of a cynical post.  Not disputing that one-upmanship does exist between or among some manufacturers, but there are thankfully many very forthright, honest manufacturers well recognized for delivering great value in their products.  Thank goodness they're out there.  I have tried very hard to purchase only what I perceive as high value products.  It's quite remarkable the amazing sound quality many 'philes manifest from very modestly priced systems. Very satisfying outcomes!

Many of my " non audio " friends and family members have never, ever considered me crazy, or frivolous, with my passion. I always paid my bills, raised a child, and really did the best I could as a family man ( I have been told ). In fact they all enjoy ( enjoyed ) my system ( s )....... A story, for those who would like to read it, as there is a point or two near the end................In 1996 I was privileged to be part of the N.Y. Stereophile Audio show at the Waldorf. My good friend, and his business partner, were the US distributors of Jadis, and were introducing their new horn speakers, the Eurythmie ( a hybrid actually), set up with the most expensive components Jadis manufactured. I am guessing the total system cost was about half a mil. Because of my expertise in evaluating and tweaking horn speakers, they hired me to be the show demonstrator ( cd was the only source, although a phono stage was part of the set up ). Neither of them owned horns, although were at my place many times. I had a ball at the show. I did not talk much about the gear, as all of the engineers and Jadis owners were there taking questions, although for the 3 days we were there, we mostly played music, from my collection as well as music brought by show visitors. Many of the cds were purchased at the show. A special highlight for me was when Pierre from Mapleshade stood in the back of the room, and then approached me, giving me a few of his own cds ( to keep ), as long as I played some tracks ( This was on Friday afternoon ). The room was far from perfect ( as all hotel rooms are at shows ), but the system was still capable of showing off it’s many attributes. During the 3 days, orders were being taken ( yes, checks were written ), by show goers. I do not know the specifics of how the money was distributed ( I believe the monies went to a dealer near where the " customer " resided ). This was 22 years ago. So, I am not surprised at the high prices of the equipment. There are people who can afford it. Another point I would like to make. If I hit the lottery, I would have no problem buying this system, and having a home built, with a professionally designed soundroom ( many soundrooms, actually ). Maybe an expensive collection of fine cars as well, although I am not a car guy as I am an audio guy. Of course, I would take care of my family members and friends, and give to so many foundations and causes in the world. I am just sayin... Enjoy ! MrD.

@kosst......whatever dude. Enjoy ! MrD.

mrdecibel
A special highlight for me was when Pierre from Mapleshade stood in the back of the room, and then approached me, giving me a few of his own cds ( to keep ), as long as I played some tracks ( This was on Friday afternoon ).

>>>>>An exceptionally deft maneuver. 

@geoffkait Absolutely agree with you ( the cds were new ). Many visitors wrote down the cd information, for purchase, specifically The Norris Turney Quartet " Big Sweet N Blue " ( on the plastic wrapper was a label indicating tracks 1, 2 and 10 ). Two or three from my collection also received much interest ( Harper Brothers " Remembrance ", Roger Waters " The Pros and Cons of Hitch Hiking ", and " The Essential Sarah Vaughan ". In fact, Jacques, the main Eurythmie designer, had me play, quite a number of times, and loudly, track 5 of The Pros and Cons. This is when hotel management came to visit, lol. Enjoy ! MrD.

@aalenik.....further states my thought on the subject. A buddy's daughter received a raise at her job. Not a 6 figure job, believe me. She goes out and spends $ 3K on a designer handbag, because " she had to have it ". Its her money. She is paying her way, paying off college, and wanted extravagant. Look up the price of esoteric handbags. It is just not audio related products. Just look around at what the rich can buy.......I do feel you and I might have ended this thread. Enjoy ! MrD

@chrisoshea how funny you bring up MBL.  Just yesterday I was at a demo studio (Sensorium in NYC) listening to a pair with the source being Pappa Was A Rolling Stone, a 50's Bud Powell recording, Nathan Milstein's classic Bach partitas and a few others and thought they produced some of the best sound I've ever heard.  The speakers retail for $30K.  That's definitely a tidy sum but imho, stacked against other speakers I've heard similarly priced, the MBL's were astonishing, especially given their ability to play loud with no distortion and incredible dispersion in the room.  I did t find them the least but harsh.  

@lgoler  My buddy who imported the Jadis equipment, owned the top model MBLs, and they were fantastic. I played, both on vinyl and cd, the song Europa, by Carlos Santana, and, I cried, it was so emotionally " you are there " engaging. He drove them with the large Jadis amps, and also with a 360 wpc Crown Macro Reference, and sounded great with both ( different characteristics ). Although I love horns, I could easily live with the MBLs. Maybe if you could double your budget, they would do EVERYTHING you would want them to do. Enjoy ! MrD.

From the " Amigos " album.

A corollary to the OP's original call to action would be a discussion on which manufacturers and distributors offer what would be considered a low "BS" factor.  But when I think about it, it's not really the BS that bothers me, it's the price!  I don't want to be made a fool of buying amp x when I could have gotten amp y (a "better" amp at less cost).  But at the same time, I need a reason to justify my decision to buy any amp.  That's where good BS (or lack of it) comes in.  Part of the fun of the hobby is investigating the minutiae.  I also find being an audiophile a form of expression, which makes buying decisions even more complex.
So with an emphasis on moderately priced audio equipment that sounds good, I will endorse the following companies I have had experience with:
VanAlstine, Rogue, Rega, Odyssey, Schitt, Joseph, Magnaplaner, Harbeth, PSB, Blue Jeans Cable, NAD, Bluesound, Sonore, Technics, Yamaha, Grado, Zu.  By no means an exhaustive list, and others may have differing opinions, but I think these guys have good products at reasonable prices, and, perhaps more importantly, their "BS" is well presented, informative, and entertaining!

Yes, there are many audio products that can be considered reasonably priced. If the money is available, the room large enough, and a proper amp used to drive them ( proper room set up as a given ), I do think the MBLs are a reasonably priced pair of speakers, because, to my ears, they are that good. Of course, if they were 1/2 the cost, they would be a bargain. This is in comparison to all else available, as I agree with lgoler. Enjoy ! MrD.

+1 kahlenz
I have had nothing but good experiences with most all of the companies you mentioned. And most have very good products that fall within the reach of an average person's budget...Jim

@mrdecibel thank you for your memories of the 1996 Stereophile Show. Have no idea why I didn’t head up, but I certainly wish I was there. I did get my first Jadis within 2 years of that.

I’ll guess your friend is Victor Goldstein? Supposedly, a fabulous fellow.  His time of heading up Jadis in North America was the golden age for the brand here.  In fact, most of the products in use even today came in during his time

@trelja  Victor is as nice a guy you could ever meet. A great salesman ( not like the old type car salesman ). Charming, passionate, and a real lover of music / equipment. Enjoy ! MrD.

 I did not notice this before, but of all the members on Audiogon, look who posted consecutively right after my response above. None other than Geoffkait and of all people hifiman5. Seems like they know each other pretty well too. The only time something sarcastic wasn't tossed my way by them. I think I will take a picture of it.The "lets make people out to be a fool team."On my very first Discussion Post as a new member on here, here is how hifiman5 welcomed me to Audiogon and I quote. "We are so honored to be in your presence"."What a fine mind you have to enlighten the great unwashed with your wisdom."If only I could be that profound.some day.""Oh well a guy can only hope.."."You are oh so very noble and impressive to yourself". His words... and you guys wonder why your equipment does not sell so quickly on here lately.They chase away the newbies on here who are eager to buy.You probably recognize those words from somewhere.I am not the only one on here he tried his dambdest to make a fool of.In fact it seems like over the years II've read that line by him numerous times.What a real prize of a guy,huh? A real tale from the dark side.They chase away the newbies.What next, stealing from babies?
  GeoffKait's often repeated statement on here that "a rich man has about as much chance of audio nirvana as a camel going through the eye of a needle."Maybe he has this all figured out, but if  high end manufacturers ever decided  to sue him left and right for slander,can you imagine how easy it would be and how conclusive the verdict.All they would have to do is bring their rather expensive equipment into the courtroom and turn it on. I'm sure the judge would be impressed, but it might be hard to prove damages unless they can prove he is influential..What Kait does have going for him and you can look this up on the internet, is that he has been called a fraud a con artist and a charlatan perhaps more than anyone ever in audio.For iinstance on this one thing (of many) it said you pay money to him to make a phone call to his enterprise, and over the phone they emit a series of clickky noises, they come right out of your telephone and is supposed to result in improved sound quality for your stereo.I think I 'll just have my grandmother hang up on me a few times in a row.This is the guy who stalked my posts on here and kept "Pasting" paragraphs from my responses onto his posts with an insulting patronization comment at the bottom each time.Still looking to make a fool of someone now?

Somebody might need a long cold shower. 

 Then the internet must need a long cold shower too.There are about 5 or 6 media write ups about Geoff Kait and his a little hard to believe claims concerning all kind of little gadgets.I hate to say this, but from what I read It looks like you are king of the charlatans according to many.Those people who are in the vast minority who claimed something good.Are those your friends and relatives
  Actually maybe we should exchange a tweak idea now and then.One for one.If you haven't noticed I am a pretty creative person.Just about everybody that knows me will concur there.I have some dandies that I do think are unique and nothing subtle about their effect.But its my idea..so you would have to go first.I am honest as long as you realize when I am serious.

You’re only half right. I’m the King of Charlatans and I’m the King of Truth. 

 Instead of getting somebody for a whole $60 for a phone call, you might consider what helped a guy I knew a long time ago.He was sort of a pudgy black man in his late 50's or early 60's and he would just go and sit off to the side of an entrance to a shopping mall.I don't know if you have any re-runs of the Ed Sullivan show, but he always had with him a little hanky like when Louis Armstrong used to come on the show with his trumpet, and he would wipe the sweat off his browevery so often. Anyway,when a lone shopper would be heading into or out of the mall he would just kinda wipe his brow with his hanky and kind of meekly mutter to himself, but loud enough,"Boy if I had a few dollars I'd go buy myself a lemonade".You would be surprised how many people gave him a few dollars for a lemonade. For some strange reason he said in front of J.C. Penny's always worked best.

The old Louis Armstrong hanky con. Back in the day he and Sammy Davis Jr. were the only negroes most white suburbans ever saw (on TV). Both great talents, but sadly played the "Step ’n Fetchit" role to pander to white audiences.

I’m sure your street beggar was able to belt down quite a few "lemonades".

But if it makes you feel good, go ahead and give the man a few bucks. If it takes $60.00 to become aware that you do not need to spend $60.00 to improve your hi-fi, then that is money well spent! Value, like music, is all in your head.

@johnk
I agree. While it’s someone’s right to spend mega bucks to by gear, without doing their homework, believing that higher bucks always means better sound - as that reasoning becomes the common consensus - it’s inevitable that good companies, who build very good equipment and sell it for a fair and reasonable price, will jump on the big bucks band wagon. Another nail in the coffin of a disappearing market...Jim

You have to look on the bright side. With a $60 phone call there’s no salesman showing up at your door and no shipping charges. 

 People coming in and out of shopping malls usually are not rich at aIt and most audiophiles have to save and sacrifice for the equipment they eventually buy.It all depends on what equipment.Plus there is the morality issue.
  I am of a very open mind..but only up to a point.Everything that happens in the known universe involves an "action" and a "reaction".Even if you would stretch your mind to the incredulous point of believing that its possible to send some great force over a phone line costing $60, somehow I couldn't picture that force losing steam, over all those hundreds or thousands of miles and petering out over a farm field in Iowa, or more likely a half block from where it originated...assuming there exists such a force somewhere in the universe.In Carl Sagan's great book "Dragons Of Eden" he mentions that billions and billions of miles away from Earth there are blackholes.Just a thimble full of black hole material would weigh more than the entire Earth.But I like to stay within the realm of reality and what's overwhelmingly likely and actually without a doubt.

Re: my post above.Typo.Of course I meant I couldn't picture such a force if it existed somewhere  "NOT" losing steam.The spell-right also changed the name Sagan to "Satan"; glad I caught that one and changed it before.

What you probably don’t realize is that there is a super-massive black hole smack dab in the center of our Milky Way galaxy. By super massive I mean around 4 Million Solar masses in the case of the Milky Way; but black holes can be orders of magnitude larger, even Billions of Solar Masses. Gulp! Not only that there are super-massive black holes in the center of many, if not most, galaxies in the universe. By the way, the $60 phone call has been performed a great many times over distances as long as 10,000 miles which, if my math is correct, is almost half-way around the world. Obviously the operating mechanism - the “force” as you say - is independent of distance. Oh, my! 😬

Kip Thorne of Gravity Wave fame had to correct Carl Sagan’s idea in his book Contact that was to use a black hole to transport Ellie to the very distant planet in Vega. Obviously that wouldn’t work too well. So Carl Sagan used Kip Thorne’s suggestion of a worm hole.

"There are no forces in nature that whose affects are not limited by distance." PERIOD.Kean University...Look it up.Probably everybody knew that anyway.Refer to line 13 and down of Geoffkait listing above.He hopes you are scientifically illiterate enough not to know that there are only 3 forces in nature.
 1.Gravitational: This requires mass (something) really really really huge; for instance  something like a planet or moon to have a profound pull on another object.  
 2.Electrostatics force.This is like when you rub a balloon to a sweater and it builds up a static electricity charge.Only affects thing held close to it. A room away in distance: NO. 10,000 miles away in distance: hell no.
 3.Magnetic force: once again this is limited with distance.A magnet only has a pull over something made of a material its capable of attracting over a relatively short distance. A room away in distance (typically) NO. An ocean away (10,000 miles in distance) Hell No.

 So since all forces are limited in distance, ( an irrefutable science fact) unless he has something that hits your eye like a big pizza pie (talking lunar size),sorry my spell-right keeps spelling lunatic and loony; there is no possibility of  having a force that is immune to distance.Of course this is all lunacy even taking time talking about it ; he wants what's in your wallet is the simpler explanation.I hope no one out there really even needed this explanation.BUT THOSE ARE THE SCIENTIFIC FACTS FROM KEAN UNIVERSITY AND ANY UNIVERSITY ON THE PLANET.I personally would not even contemplate anything that crazy.Like I say this explanation probably was not even necessary.What he needs isn't a  foold that's  born any minute.It would take a much rarer one than that.Like I say Geoff Kait, I'm done with this, but quit tempting me ,will you.

Re: my listing above.Excuse the typos I'm in fast mode.Size of the Moon:about 1/3,the size of the earth.If anyone ever would come up with something REAL like that, they would make Bill Gates and every company on the Fortune 500 look like paupers.

You’re the one who said it was a force. I used the word force in quotes. Quantum Teleportation doesn’t involve any force. 😀 The phone call tweak is as real as a colonoscopy without anesthesia. You’re entire post is a Strawman argument. But I like your use of Wikipedia. “Look it up.” Lots of laughs! Besides the gravitational force is a long range force. So even your Strawman argument is wrong. 😀

 Your "Quantum" "Teleportation" is meant to sound like something really complex.You hope people will look at the word "Quantum" and scratch their head and think "Quantum "that's sounds pretty sophisticated to me.That sounds really advanced that word does.Some guy on one of the posts tried your Quantum Teleportation  and he says it sounded like you were hitting a bunch of pans with a spoon.You say it works for even people with a land line phone. All that land line phones are capable of is "hello how are you" SOUND in other words.You say you do not even have to take the phone away from your ear,all sound is directional its not like a "field".So your ear blocking the sound coming over the phone doesn't' matter.Your stereo,which doesn't't even have ears, but if it did, by just hearing this small minute sound in the background is supposed to change everything  around. Would that not be special !! I personally like the scarecrow from the wizard of oz, it kept the buzzards away.If there are any real scientists who think your argument is not a strawman one; or who would even spend a minute of their time considering this; name them.Or is this something that's top secret??

Re: Geoff Kait. I had a change of heart. If you can prove you really worked for NASA as an engineer I will try some of your products/ services and recommend them to other people if they work well. I'll tell you what I'll do. Instead of arguing like this, why don't we charter a bus some day, you, me, some of my family, some of your friends or family and go down to NASA. Like a field trip.
  We can make a day of it !! Maybe get there around a quarter to noon.Being a former big engineer there, you ought to be able to get us all right in; no sweat I bet. We can head over to the NASA cafeteria, pig out on Sloppy Joe's and Jello.What flavor Jello do they have there? Red white and blue I bet. Maybe they even have some with an upside down strawberry sticking up in the middle, like a nose cone.
 NASA is a good job, people work there for years, they stay with it till they retire As the cafeteria fills up with your former friends I hope it will be a heart warming reunion for all of you.Many of them are bound to still be working there. I am warning you though; if I'm done with my first Sloppy Joe and not one person comes over to hug you, I am going to be PISSED !! All those hours on the bus; and then not being able to try on space helmets, no hugging rockets, no getting to see if the rocket decals are stick on's. No getting to see how I look in a shiny silver suit that I can see myself in. Having to have lived on pockets full of boiled eggs and all that money spent at Sbarro stops. I hope you are being truthful with us and you really were an engineer at NASA. Where do you live? I live in Hollywood Florida, just around the corner from the dog track and the stripper place.Oh, I remember now, you live in Virginia. PERFECT !! JUST PERFECT !!  Where I live should be about the midway point between where you live and NASA. Even the bus driver will appreciate the break.Hey, bring that Quantum Telepporter thingy with you.If it works over the phone 10,000 miles away, just think of what a difference it'll make if you zap my stereo right there in person. It's been my experience that things ALWAYS work better in person VS. over the phone.Just Don't Zap My Dog. He's a retired greyhound. His name is Bruce, but his racing name was PMS Ready To Start Streaking. He lost his last nine in a row before they retired him. He doesn't' bite unless he really hates you.What do you say ???

Snicker...…….

Beam me up Geoff :)

supertweak asked,

“Or is this something that’s top secret??”

Now, you’re getting warm. Try Above Top Secret, Junior.

I finally explained the whole story. Sometimes to create you must destroy.

https://www.machinadynamica.com/machina43.htm

Ahhh…  Area 51. Did you escape?

amg56
Ahhh… Area 51. Did you escape?

You’re close. Very close. Area 52.

No. I am mistaken. I saw you in the film Independence Day, you know, with the octopus arms. You came down in the Quantum floaty spacecraft.  That got to be close surely.

You could also send mental signals through thick glass like it were telegraph cables... You know, to create agony to intelligent people's brains...

I’m sending mental messages to you right now. Are you receiving them? 🤡

Nope, your line must be down.

Nope, not funny. You’re trying too hard. 

 THE BIG QUESTION: Were the moon landings a hoax? Although I'm feeling I would not be comfortable truthwise with an answer from YOU.Still waiting on proof you ever were really a NASA engineer.

I won the office pool for when Skylab finally came down from orbit, broke up into pieces and crashed to Earth. That was at Goddard Space Flight Center. I’m guessing you didn’t know there was a Skylab or a Goddard Space Flight Center.