Anyone hear the Caravelle speaker and not like it?
I am very close to ordering a pair of the Harmonic Precision Carravelle speakers. I am looking in the below $5,000 range and these look interesting. There are only a couple of reveiws so I was wondering if anyone has heard them and been unimpressed? It is a lot of money but I may take a chance on it. Anyone think I can do better at my price point. I will be buying a new amp after I choose a speaker.
Gendut, here's how I see it. 10% of the time audiophools deal with you they are VERY unhappy. Would you jump out of an airplane knowing that your parachute will work only 10% of the time? your resume says it all....most negatives (plus a neutral) I've ever seen....you're a real power...
So Speakerdude aka Spell Checker you have made 6 posts on Audiogon..Two of the six were to call people out on their spelling ..Your contribution to Audiogon has been very impressive and so informative.I bet you make Sister Mary Joseph very proud. Tom
Touche, 'imo'....but how many people purchase speakers on purely 'objective' measurements - Our objective subjective :) review between the Caravelle and others was in favor of the Caravelle. My point was it wasn't a subjective, gee I didn't compare it to anything else. Frankly the Caravelle's are the best I have heard, period and I have heard a lot. Look, all I am trying to do is alert audiophiles to a great product. period. I turned my friend on to the Caravelles, who owns the Wilsons and in his room, we both preferred the Caravelles. If you aren't in the market for a speaker - then what do you care?
HYPE? Nope, owned enough audio equipment too long to say these are hype....Go listen for yourself. To those that measuer a speakers performance by its cost of parts must not be in a business or are completely ignorant of intellectual capital. Go buy the parts and build it yourself....oh, and while your at it, try and commercialize it....oh, and while your at it, capitalize the business, market the business, etc. etc. ever heard of overhead, or heaven forbid a profit? I would not argue about another man's profit unless you yourself don't care about making your own. After all making money is how we all live. I think the Caravelle's are fairly priced. In fact I think they are undervalued.
This makes me smile. A couple of years ago the well-known company that makes my own speakers introduced a new model which quickly received several positive press reviews. The manufacturer is a firm widely recognized for steadfastly keeping the prices of its wares within the realm of high end sanity, especially given their level of engineering and performance. Their conscious decision not to persue the cost-no-object market segment has probably cost them audiophile cache in the long run.
The speaker was a small floorstanding 2-way without deep bass that cost in the low $2,000's (I am speaking of the Thiel 2.4). I went to listen to this speaker and was very impressed with what I heard, it generally exceeding my relatively modest exectations in rather suprising ways. It was by no means without flaw or limitation, but it struck me as an attractive package and a good value for the right application.
whattaya think they (the audiogon feedback) are there for? there's nothing personal about your resume, my man. You are what you are.. nahneeenahneenahna..I'm through with you and this thread. I'm glad you've come around to seeing that the Caravelles are fairly priced. It took you awhile, but you are now free. Theaudiotweak may be able to get you on the wait list. Maybe by next Christmas you'll be grooving?...plenty of time to save up...my job is done. another Caravelle conversion. It's my calling....just call me "Caravelleman." Too forward? Too ostentatious? How 'bout, "the man." I'm going to have to think on this. Sorry Gendut, but I couldn't resist that poor resume of yours. I know it was a bit low, but you know the deal: what goes around comes around. I shouldn't have lowered myself, true, so I'll call my mentor for spiritual solace and advice. You're on your own big guy. beat away....peace, warren
[Sorry, I accidentally posted the above before I was done writing it, and wouldn't you know, Warren punched the button on his post so soon after mine that I couldn't delete it and continue writing within 10 seconds of having clicked by mistake! Anyway...]
Point is, there soon started to appear in these forums posts deriding the 2.4's not necessarily for their sound - which as with any particular speaker will be subject to personal preference - but for a perceived lack of good value. They were only 2-way. They didn't go very deep or really loud. These posters didn't think they sounded as world-beating good as some reviews seemed to promise. Since Thiel makes their own drivers, there of course weren't any posts about driver cost per se, but several posters felt that over $2K was way out of line for this fairly diminutive though obviously high quality speaker, and there were even insinuations of price-gouging compared to larger speakers from other companies in the same price range.
Meantime, on other threads people were raving about Kharma's nearly-$20K small floorstanding 2-ways, as was Jon Valin in TAS. Not unlike the Caravelles, there were comparisons to much larger speakers costing multiples of their price more, and declarations of exceptional value for the money. In Stereophile, John Marks raved about a stand-mount 2-way from Peak Consult that cost in the same ballpark as the Kharmas. Nobody that I can recall busied themselves breaking down the component cost or profit margins on these speakers.
NOT TALKING ABOUT THE SOUND OR DESIGN OR PRICE OF THE SPECIFIC PRODUCTS I'VE MENTIONED - which I can't do because I've only heard one of them - my take is that the notion of value in the high end marketplace has relatively little to do with sound, or the cost of parts, distribution, margins, engineering effort, manufacturing prowress, or even the reputation of the manufacturer. It is much more about perceptions, which in turn have more to do with 'buzz' than sound or reputation (yes, I think sound quality often has only a minor correlation with buzz).
In this universe, a notably high or notably low price can work for you, but a middle-of-the-road price can work against you. Being a well-established brand name can work against you, but being an esoteric or new name can work for you. Running a big ad campaign can work against you, but depending on internet chat or a crusading reviewer can work for you. Adhering to accepted science in the design process can work against you, but touting vague sonic claims based on speculative hypothoses can work for you. Making products that have been widely heard can work against you, making one that most audiophiles have never heard can work for you. In the battle for audiophile perceptions, familiarity of brand names and engineering claims can breed contempt. If it's commonly available or commonly known, it can't be uncommonly good. Economies of scale are generally looked-down upon, but a proportional connection between price level and performance level is widely accepted.
I'm not here to comment the actual value of the Caravelles, about which I know absolutely nothing. I'm just observing that in this thread, there seems to be the camp which thinks they are an unbelievablely great value (mostly owners and dealers), and a camp which suspects that they are in some way a mediocre-to-lousy value (who have probably never heard them). It strikes me that there seem to be no opinions that the speakers are merely a solid value, appropriate to their asking price within the context of the high end marketplace. They've either got to be overachieving near-miracles or overhyped quasi-rip-offs.
As I said at the top, it makes me smile. The concept of "value" in our hobby is so wildly variable and subjective (and so many discretionary dollars are involved that would mean so much more going toward food, shelter, medicine, clothing, and eduction for so much of the rest of our world's population), that the entire subject should probably be off-limits for any discussion among audiophiles from now going forward. Otherwise it just becomes laughable, meaningless, pathetic, and maybe even obscene. IMO. Spend what you want, buy what you want, rave about it all you want, but please spare us the proclamations or condemnations concerning "value". It's an evaluation quite apparently totally irrelevent and impossible to uniformly apply to this hobby.
Dan: I'm sorry, I of course I meant to single out the 1.6's. Surprised I didn't catch this over the span of two posts, but I guess I was preoccupied with other thoughts. Didn't mean to confuse anybody.
Zaikesman...You mentioned two descriptions: "overachieving near-miracles or overhyped quasi-rip-offs". I think you, and the sellers, missed another possible description...A design based on synergistic combination of very modest components to achieve an unexpected high level of performance, at low cost.
There was once such a speaker system...The original Advent.
Gendut3 are the Caravelle the only thing in Hi End that you think the price is to high.What products in Hi End are of a modest price that you recommened us to buy.If I`M being rob please help me. Thank YOU
People say anything,so what are your recommendation for Speakers.The Caravelle sound Damm Good to me.What type of value you put on something you like the way it sounds.(Some members don`t know that they don`t),but they will speak on it.They`re not that many pairs of Caravelles in the marketplace.Show us that you`re smart guy,what components are in your system.Please don`t forget the modest price ones. Thank You
Sorry, I couldn't resist. Now I get the deal, Gendut. It was my comments about the Caravelles being superior than the Sonus Cremonas, right? You have the Cremonas I see. Hit a nerve with ya, huh? I understand, now. You can get a great price for the Sonus on the 'gon. Although you may have trouble, thinking about it, now, when others read that resume of yours. Give it a shot. It is not an irreversible mistake. Don't be upset. You're one angy audiophool. OK, now I'm outta here. I realize I said that before.
Gendut3 the $39 midbass and the $29 tweeter if they work what is wrong with that.I had a pair of JM Lab 926 maybe the drivers cost more,but they didn`t work for me.I think Warren is right on about you,you are a mad angry person.Do you know how many days you been crying now.Peace and Enjoy the week.Remember people have a choice to buy what they Want. (Take Care)
Warrenh,i don't even know about your comment on Cremona but i do know and remember about your comment that Caravelle tweeter is better than JM lab Be.
No one hurt me if saying my xxxx is not good, how about you?
All my gears are bought used here on Gon,except for Dynavector XX2 and i can sell them all anytime and still make some $$$ or a lot of $$$,in fact i bought the Cremona for much less than 5K.
FYI,Cremona is also used cheap Vifa tweeters. Is it better than Be tweeter ? nope,not even closed.
Blcube,nothing wrong with $39 and $29 drivers if you price it right, like $995?
I thing you and Warrenh are the one who are mad angry person here ... After knwowing the truth about the drivers or after everyone knows the facts about it...?
Is Be better than Millenium ? Certainly. I still own the millenium besides 4 other tweeters.
1. My 2904/7000 is also better than Millenium. 2. Millenium is MUCH better than Vifa ring radiator in my Cremona. 3. My Morel supreme 110 is more dynamic than Millenium but also has more egde. 4. Millenium is better than SS 6100.
Do i like Millenium? Yes,if not i will sell mine. In fact,i'm thinking about buying the Cressendo, new top of the line from Seas.
If you are saying Millenium better than Be,it's OK and acceptable since not all people like hard dome.
If you are saying Caravelle tweeters are better than Be,you are lying !!
Nope; You got it in the right order, Focal Be in between the 7000 and the Millenium. I looked for the quote but I know it was overly harsh on the Millenium but it could have been a grammar thing.
I'll post some pictures of My Accuton/2904/7000 System when its finished.
I have the Caravelle tweeters in some DIY's a little crunchy where I cross them over (1800hz 4th order) but pretty good otherwise.
Gendut, breath deep, take your meds, and wax your speakers (don't use Pledge on those babies)....oops, I did it again. I'm a sick audiophool, what can I tell you......I love the 'gon.
Hi. For the reductionists who want to think that everything about an audio component can be determined by a single item such as a driver, I suppose this is an interesting discussion.
For people interested in the sound quality of a speaker system, most know that drivers are only a part of it.
The Caravelles are priced, based upon our manufacturing costs, and the costs of doing business. There is no "additional markup" based on "thin air", as some seem to be intimating.
While some may seem to be of the opinion that quality drivers, which don't happen to cost a fortune, cannot be a part of a state-of-the-art speaker system, they are in for a surprise when they actually hear the Caravelle.
We look at it from a value/performance perspective, and actually consider it a testament to our overall technology implemented in these speakers, which allows performance levels which were previously thought impossible with "off the shelf" driver elements. It can be quite shocking to find how much performance is available from these fine drivers, when they are placed in the right setting, using our technology. The key to this speaker system is what we do with the drivers, and what we do with the enclosure, and the crossover, not what some parts cost "off the shelf" from a parts supplier. We tried some very expensive drivers in this design, and the ones that worked the best in our application were the ones we picked. The cost of the drivers was coincidental, and the performance with the crossover and the enclosure was primary. Think what you like, but please listen to the system before flogging us about our decision.
For those unfamiliar with our enclosure, it is by far the most expensive part of this speaker system, and is one of the key factors which allows us to produce this level of performance. The costs of these specialized one-piece composite cabinets dwarfs the costs of all of the rest of the individual parts. For those of you familiar with our company's concepts, you know why we have chosen this route. For those unfamiliar, we at Starsound use highly specialized vibration management technology to improve the sound quality of many aspects of audio and video systems, and this is our main contribution to the music reproduction world. All our products are based around this concept, and the Caravelle is no exception. As such, we placed a very strong emphasis on this aspect of the Caravelle's design and manufacture, which is truly responsible for what they sound like. Unfortunately for some, it was a costly endeavor, which cost far more than a wood or MDF box imported from another country, that would have mightily reduced the cost; but would have made the Caravelle just "another monitor" without the performance benefits that are garnering all the accolades we hear. This is the VALUE of the Caravelles, not just the PRICE. Sure, we could have made it cheap and average sounding, but we preferred to make it a top performer. To do this, we had to go above and beyond the normal way of doing things. The competitive high-end monitor speaker category is tough to beat, and it requires some innovative thinking to do it. And often, this costs money to implement properly, and it certainly did in this case.
We're not hiding anything from anybody. Our drivers, cabinet construction, specifications, concepts and ideas, and performance levels have all been mentioned and discussed at length many times on various forums. Just like in this thread, it always seems to be a "lightning rod" for controversy from some detractors. We've come to expect this.
We're letting our Caravelles stand on their own two feet(stands), and they are standing pretty tall all by themselves. This is our speaker design, that we have presented for sale on the market. Nobody is forcing anyone to buy this(or any) speaker, and it is up to the purchasers to decide what is best for them.
For those hobbyists wishing to try for more performance from the same or different drivers, in their DIY box, the drivers are readily available for them to try it. It's a free market. Any DIY builder who can beat the sound of the Caravelles with his own design and saves some money, more power to him. Consider it a challenge.
Just remember, the key to a good purchase is VALUE. What degree of performance are you getting for your money? An old adage states,"The bitterness of poor value remains long after the sweetness of cheap price is forgotten." We strive to provide VALUE in our products, which will stand up to the rigors of competition at the price-point in the marketplace. And that is exactly what we have provided in the Caravelle.
Nobody can please everyone, and the ones we wish to satisfy are our customers. We've revealed all about our speakers, our technology, and our company's concepts, to everyone willing to listen. Some will buy, and some will not. That's the way of the world.
Some anonymous WW2 flyer once said,"You get the most flack, when you are over the target." If that's true, then we must be pretty close right now. But, we would really prefer it if the people shooting at us would at least know what they are shooting at, before they pull the trigger. Knowing what "Driver X" sounds like in another totally different design, is no way of knowing how it sounds in ours. Perhaps if they actually listened to the Caravelles, they could actually make some meaningful comments that go beyond self-serving, uninformed conjecture. If you haven't listened to it, you don't know. Period.
In closing, I hope everyone is enjoying their audio systems, as much as we enjoy ours. We welcome questions and auditions from any interested parties, and we provide ways for them to do this by contacting us by phone or email. I'm also happy to entertain questions and respond to comments on the forum, and on this thread.
TWL...FWIW...Definition of an Engineer...Someone who can do, for a dollar, what any damn fool can do for ten. Henry Kloss was an Engineer.
I think that the only reason you get so much flack is the price. I, and probably others, know that excellent results can be obtained from inexpensive drivers.
May I suggest that you explore alternate enclosure fabrication methods and/or vendors. From what you have said it appears that your cost for these items is unreasonable, and prevents pricing at a level that would greatly broaden your potential customer base.
Here here Twl! Nicely said. FWIW I’ve heard your speaker and was suitably impressed. Which is the opposite of what I am with your dealer here who is as confused about terminology as he is about technology and serves no particular purpose other than to hype and shill. Frankly, your product deserves better.
I cannot believe this thread is still going. A speaker cannot be judged by the drivers alone. There is much more envolved. Sure JM Lab makes great drivers but guess what, I find their speakers Mechanical and very analytical sounding. Are my ears perfect, no but I know what I like.
Things like the crossover, enclosure characteristics, and design make a huge difference. Maybe these speakers are amazing. To argue sight unseen or heard and base your opinion on the drivers used is just silly. Listen to the speakers, then give your opinion. Otherwise it is nothing more than speculation.
You all are right about the drivers being only part of the deal. This whole thread reminds me of the GM Europa...inexpensive drivers but a smart mind behind them! Great sound...$995. Warrenh & I went several rounds awhile back on the two until he got KO'ed!!!! :o) Jusss kiddin Warren!, I would like to hear the Caravelles one day, but now I am happy using a great sounding & looking speaker that btw uses inexpensive drivers also. :o)
Has anyone ever heard the Europa & Caravelle??/thoughts??
Speakerdude, Nicely said. I've long thought that the problem with the Caravelle's was more probably a reaction to some of the folks promoting them than the actual speakers themselves. There are certainly as, or more, expensive speakers out there that these speakers claim to be competetive with (or better than). Sure would be interesting to be able to audition them some time.
In my opinion, the more ambitious the performance of a particular speaker system is intended to be by the designer, the more ambitious the construction of the cabinet must be.
Great drivers will be limited by the cabinet into which they are loaded. If the cabinet is not up to snuff the result will probably be good but not great. Conversely, moderately priced drivers can achieve very high performance if the cabinet is quite well executed.
When Bright Star was producing speaker systems (we actually started as a speaker manufacturer) the cabinet I designed was by far the major cost of the product. The drivers, crossover and hookup wire were also a significant portion of the cost but not equal to the cabinet.
Of course, the crossover must also be commensurate with the goals of the designer. A "series" style crossover is significantly more difficult and time consuming to design than a "parallel" style crossover but does have a number of potential advantages. The biggest drawback as far as designing is concerned is that altering any one aspect of the crossover slopes or driver level requires a change in most (if not all) of the values for the other constituent parts (capacitors, coils, resistors). Designing this type of crossover for a two-way system is also much less daunting than doing so for a three-way system.
The above is not a comment one way or the other on the Caravelle speaker or its performance but a general comment on the art of speaker design.
Bob, lol...yeah I took a verbal thrashing on that thread. I shouldn't (like Gendut is doing, here) have commented about the Caravelles vs the Europas, without having heard the Europas. My (BIG) mistake. I was overly excited about the Caravelles and went a little nuts. I'm still wild about them, but a tad more composed. peace, warren
Dear Gendut3, I appreciate your obsession with expensive drivers. I assure you that after being an amateur hobbyist involved in speaker building for over 25 years now, I understand how this issue can become a focusing point for some.
Yes, I do use the Lowther drivers in my personal speakers, and I do like them. However, it was revealed to me again just recently at the CES show about the truth in speaker systems. Being a Lowther user and enthusiast myself, I naturally went to all the rooms using Lowther-based single-driver speaker systems. I found none of these speakers to my liking, even though some of them used exactly the same drivers that I have in my very own system, and there were no crossover parts inside any of them(single-drivers).
So, what can we conclude? A) We can conclude that the parts of a speaker(or any system) can have a big influence on the sound of the package.
B) We can conclude that the environment(enclosure) which houses the driver can have a big influence on the sound of the package.
C) We can conclude that neither unit operates on its own, and that proper matching of the transducer to its operating environment is critical to the overall performance of the system.
Perhaps, since you have enjoyed my analog discourses in the past, we can use an analogy. In analog systems, there are transducers(cartridges) and environments(tonearm/turntable) in which the transducer operates. You may have a fantastic cartridge, and a fantastic tonearm, but if they are not properly matched, then neither operates up to its potential in sonic terms. This matching takes many forms, as we know, and there are many things that affect it, some of which are not immediately apparent to the user's eye. In some ways, it could be said that the enclosure of a speaker is like the tonearm, and the driver is like the cartridge. The enclosure must be tuned to the proper resonance for the driver, there must be energy paths provided to resolve the energy that is fed back into the enclosure by the movement of the transducer, and there must be rigidity and stability provided, so that the environment is not subjected to "unwanted movement" during the transducer's operation that would cause information loss or colorations. All of these issues are addressed in the Harmonic Precision Caravelle loudspeaker enclosure design. It is a design that is matched and properly implemented from the driver down the the Audiopoint feet on the bottoms of the stands. I hope that sheds some light for you on the importance of why we did things as we did. There are some similar things needed when dealing with transducers, at both ends of the chain.
Regarding the binding posts, which seem to be so disturbing to you, these posts were chosen for their coupling ability to the Microbearing filled rear wall of the cabinet, so that the vibrational energy is properly dealt with on the binding posts, the rear wall of the speaker, and the ends of the cables which contact the binding posts. Internal wiring is done with MicroBearing-filled Sonoran Plateau speaker cables of our own manufacture, for achieving similar purposes of vibration management in the internal speaker wiring. Just this wiring harness alone costs several hundred dollars, and this is one of the few speakers built today with a "Flagship" top-of-the-line internal speaker cabling system, and not just a flimsy set of some low cost "audiophile grade" wire. So, from the drivers back to the binding posts, and everything in-between, there are significant issues being addressed with every part in the chain, INCLUDING the binding posts, which are all chosen for how well they work in the context of the overall design of the system. There is no correlation to size or appearance of the binding post, which can be attributed to its performance in our context.
Next, regarding the question of "why did we stop at the drivers?", I already answered that question, but to elucidate further, it is because they had the proper parameters to work together with our crossover and cabinet design, to provide the electrical and sonic results we were looking for. Our designer has even been quoted as saying that normally these 2 drivers might not even be what he would want in another design, but in this design they are optimal, and work out much better than other drivers which were more costly, and "more famous".
So, to reiterate, it all comes down to how "the sum of the parts in unison" comes together in an overall sense, as to how well the performance criteria are achieved. We design according to criteria that are very different than other manufacturers, and we strive to optimize things that some other speaker makers aren't even aware of. We just do things differently, and we feel that we do things better. That's why we are designers and manufacturers, so that we can provide another way to do things that we know work better than the "usual" way. From the past history of our previous products, people should expect things to be done "differently" by us, and always be at a high quality and performance level.
We feel that we have achieved the performance levels that we were after, and it seems that the initial market acceptance and reviewer excitement is bearing out what we expected all along.
Our philosophy at Starsound is to produce high-value high-performance products which are not "me too" products, and have a "standout" character beyond the normal expectations, and this is the kind of products that we have produced for years in the audio system support categories with Audiopoints and Sistrum products, both benchmarks in their respective categories. We felt that if we were going to produce a monitor speaker, that it had to live up to the performance level that people expect from us, and still be affordable for its performance level. We had no interest in making $40,000 speakers, that might be beyond the reach of many audiophiles. We targeted the $5k price range, because it was a price which allowed us enough room to make the system of high quality with our innovations, and still be within reach of many purchasers, even though it is not a "cheap speaker".
So, that is basically it. We did the best we could do in the price category that was targeted, and achieved a level of performance that is consistent with our other "benchmark" products already in production. And we used the concepts and even the products(Sistrum and Audiopoints) in the overall design, so that we could show how these concepts and products can maximize the performance of a speaker product(even one with affordable drivers). These were our goals.
As to others' evaluations of our success in this attempt, we'll leave that up to the customers and the reviewers. We are confident that we have produced a HIGH-VALUE product that will compete well with anything at the price, and quite possibly against higher priced speakers as well.
What we want to do, is to bring high performance into people's homes at prices that will not "break the bank". This doesn't mean that they can be made for 49 cents, but they are "pinnacle" type designs, for affordable prices for that kind of performance. Really, I'd have thought that this would be well-received by the users, so that they wouldn't have to spend so much to get state-of-the-art performance. But instead, it seems to generate alot of complaints about why we didn't make it "cheaper", or why we didn't make it "more expensive". I don't know. This is the speaker system, and this is its price. That's all we can say. It will stand on what it can do at the price range. I know that there are users out there who are finding this speaker system to be a "dream come true". That's what we wanted to make for them, and for everybody who needs a top quality monitor system. We'd like to be known as the company that makes lifelike high-end sound more affordable. We want you to be happy.
I would also like to add that we did apply significant hand modifications to the drivers used in our speakers disphragms creating ceramic coated diphragms for most of our models. This did add significantly to the final cost for each driver, however.
I heard these speakers at CES. I was most surprised by them. It's a lot of quality jammed into a small package. I have a hard time believing that people who are so down on them have ever heard them. Everything Tom and Barry have said is accurate. I don't know all the technical aspects of the speakers, but they sound good. I stood in the outer room and heard them play for quite a while before going in to the room where they were playing.
Nothing I heard from the outer room prepared me for what I saw when I entered the listening room. I had heard all kinds of systems with all kinds of componants throughout the day. I expected to see a big floor standing monster in the room where I found a smallish pair of monitors. I didn't think to ask how much the drivers cost, because I didn't think it was relevant. The cabinets were substantial, and solid. The stands looked more like a sculpture, and the music was beautiful.
Based on what I heard these speakers are well worth the relatively low cost of admission. Everything worked together very well, from the binding posts to the drivers.
While I was at CES I visited more rooms than I was really interested in seeing. The Bright Star Audio room was one of the best sounding rooms at THE show! Probably in the top three, but at worst, the fourth best room I heard. That's a heck of a commentary on their speaker, and the things working with it.
Thank you for your comments. I would like to clarify that the speakers heard at CES in our rooms at Alexis Park and at St Tropez were not Bright Star speakers. We stopped manufacturing speakers about three years ago.
Oh forget it. If anyone is SERIOUSLY thinking about these speakers email me. I don't have to respond to people who attack something they have never heard. BTW, I have only compared these to speakers I have owned or directly compared them with.
Every man has a little ego, the bigger the ego the smaller the man....
Tvad, at this time the price of the Caravelles includes the pair of dedicated "latticework" Sistrum-design platforms(stands) that come with the Caravelles at the $5k price. They are designed as a package, and the stands are included in the price, as part of the package.
However, I must advise that these stands went really far over budget, and it is quite possible in the near future that we will be forced to raise the price because of this. We are contemplating a less-costly pair of Sistrum-designed stands as an alternative. The purchaser could then select which stands he wishes to purchase along with the speakers, depending upon how much he wishes to spend.
At this time, we are "eating" the difference in price, just to hold our predetermined price point for introduction. But I don't think we can do this for long. At this time, there is very little profit margin in these speakers/stands, and if we used "normal" pricing structures that included "normal" dealer markups, the Caravelles/stands would have a retail cost of nearly double what we are selling them for now.
Truthfully, the early purchasers of the Caravelles are getting a fantastic deal for the price, because of this unusual low profit/high manufacturing cost ratio. As I said, I'm not sure how long we can go on at this price point. We're trying everything possible to streamline the production to keep the cost down. Right now, with the low production and complexity and cost of manufacture, these Caravelles are essentially "custom hand made" speakers. That's why we are perpetually behind schedule on these.
If we get enough orders in, perhaps we can take better advantages of "economies of scale" in manufacturing larger numbers. This would help us to hold the price.
However, they can still be had for the $5k price including the stands. We will announce any upcoming price increases, but I'm giving a fair "heads-up" advisement about it right now. We'll keep the $5k price, but it may be with the less costly stands for that amount in the future. The fancier "latticework" stands that we have now, will likely be an option at added expense at some relatively early point down the road.
I heard the Caravelles at the Rocky Mtn Audio Fest and was quite impressed. They did have the DCS as source, which in my book meant that the people setting up the room actually cared about how the speakers were going to sound - and also that the speakers will be able to keep up with someone's system as it grows and improves over time.
Enjoy! -Mike (who is just trying to clear the air and who has no involvment with anything or anyone in the Caravelle universe).
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