Sorry it took so long to get back to this, the buyer accepted the pieces as they were, a crack in one of the rails and some pushed in parts on the stators, so I did not have to pursue the claim. But in the meanwhile I did some research and the packing requirements that they use as their defense clearly demonstrate that they don't intend to honor their insurance in any situation unless forced. Their requirements are such that only the Jeff Rowland flight case package that he uses for the model 6 amps I once had meet their specs for packing. They say the gear must have 2-4 inches of styrofoam packing on all sides, surrounded by corrugated cardboard that is sealed with tape on every seam, the entire distance, with the name of the addressee on the outside and the inside of the package. How many people have received packages that meet these standards, even direct from manufacturers? |
Thats why I ship threw the mail boxes ex. that my friend owns .UPS is real bad ,p/o is bad .fedex is probly the best bet in shipping.I think the problems with costumer service are across the board as far as big companys are conserned.Whats happening to america ? Dont they want me to trust there service and make me want to deal with them again?Or dont they care about my buisness. because Iam just one guy not a huge buisness . |
Read my thread of 1/7 UPS STRIKES AGAIN. Mail Boxes Etc. says they have to initiate my claim as they are the shipper, but because I packed it, They are "not hopeful" Of course not, UPS owns Mail Boxes Etc.!
I have asked the buyer to take some digital photos of the damage, I have digital photos of the turntable before it was shipped. Best advice i have been given is to be relentless in your pursuit of the claim as they will almost automatically reject the first attempt as "improper packing"
Obviously UPS has a problem with audio gear, or, there would not be so many horror stories. |
Ups owns mail box express .The insurance is allways threw UPS .Mail boxes at least the one where I do buisness always deals with UPS insurance for the costumer if they dont go do a diferant mail box express. |
You just gotta double-box and anticipate the handling it's gonna receive....pack your precious item to survive it.
Funny story... I was home, expecting arrival of a McIntosh MC300 power amp (75 pounder). Well, when the "Brown Santa Claus" pulled up I jumped up and walked out to the truck...just in time to hear my precious amp hit the floor of the truck. Walked around to the back and saw the empty rack it had been up on and how far it fell. Damn! Driver looked pretty sheepish, and did help me carry it in the house.
Check out how McIntosh packs their stuff to ship. It'll survive being dropped off your roof! |
I went through hell for 4 months after UPS rejected a damage claim for a fully insured BAT VK-60 amp which they abused so badly that 2 of its 3 transformers were literally torn from the chassis, despite the amp being shipped in its original box and all packing material. (Believer it or not, UPS tried to blame the company that shipped the amp for placing the shipping label on the bottom of the box.) Someone at my credit card company happened to advise me to contact the third-party insurance company that UPS uses and speak to the agent handling the case and his supervisor, which helped to resolve the matter. The crucial thing is NOT to give up. I was also advised to consider filing a complaint in small-claims court. |
I have all the responces and they all make sense.I know it is more expensive but let me tell you the way to go.Have your shipments packed professionaly by a packing company let them also ship the package for you.This way they are responsable if anything happens.Let them deal with the shipping companys if there is a problem.This way if you have a problem it is there responibility! |
Personally I think these are the truth:
They will not approve the claim IF the item you are shipping are pack inside a box which does not meet the ability of holding that certain weight.
They will not approve IF you mis-declare whats inside.
I claimed once, I didnt get approve first time after the inspector inspected it, but me and the seller b_tch at them like 1000000 times, so they came again and inspect, I showed him the crazy beaten up box (got holes and tears) and the amp I recieved (It wasnt turning ON). It was a 75lb amp and the box says it ONLY support 60 lbs, thats why they didnt approve, but the reason why they approve second time is my seller shipped the item in the UPS station and they check the packing and said it was okay, my seller told them that if it wasnt okay they shouldve said so. They made a mistake, they had to approve my case. Email me if you have further question. |
My greatest problem with UPS came when a guy used Mail Box Express to ship me amps. UPS said the insurance was with them so they should pay the claim, while MBE said it was with UPS and they should pay the claim. Don't be too sure MBE will represent your interests. |
I have had to make claims for UPS shipping dammage took months to get a refund lots of phone calls ,now I ship threw Mail Box express if its dammaged they deal with UPS saves me much grief but costs more to ship . |
Another caution with peanuts is they often generate a lot of static electricity. If using them for packing electronics an anti-static bag around the component is a must. |
UPS calls this the "shock" in their system. I suspect that maybe one box in 10 are dropped off the conveyor belts or in handling. I had one amp that arrived in a perfect box where all transformer (ALL) were torn off and rattling around. I figure that it fell from great height but landed perfectly flat on the top of the box. UPS bought both the damaged and undamaged amps.
You are right about packing. One thing you did not say, however, was not to use peanuts with anything that weighs more than a pound. I know this is the standard and unprofessional packing method of various packing services and thus they should be avoided. Crumbled newspapers are far superior.
Finally, you should include FedEx, Airborne, and the USPS in your use at your own risk. |
Anyone who ships items UPS does so at their own risk. You can be assured that they will drop or throw the box (possibly more then once) from at least waist height. I recommend packing items very carefully and if possible double boxing. If you don't have the original packing material use plently of crumbled up newspaper. Also insure the item for it's full value; it only costs 35 cents for every $100 over the first $100. |
All these stories make you wonder how manufacturers actually get product to dealers. |
I have had everything between taking them to small claims court and having a very considerate person there save my butt after Jim Anthon stold my AN DAC 4 Sig. I find nothing to predict what will happen. I also must say I find Airborne and the USPS worse and FedEx no better. Always keep original boxes and double box if those are worthless, such as from Marantz, duplicate the disassembly needed, address very clearly, and cross your fingers. |
Update on my earlier response regarding sad experiences w/FedEx Ground: after their initial denial of my claim on the damaged PSB 5T speaker, I called and spoke with the guy who authored the denial letter and told him I took photos of the damaged box and speaker. Note: ALWAYS do this! He asked me to email them to him, and 2 days later he emails me back saying he's paying the full amount of the insurance and refunding the shipping costs! So--ALWAYS protest and dispute their claim denials, persevere, and never get nasty over the phone. I should have my refund before the year is out!! Good luck to you too. |
That's right and if it is not 2" or more of foam, they will not pay. They will gladly insure them, but even if it is factory packaging, they can refuse paying. They destroyed 3 pairs of speakers I had sent using them and now use Fed Ex with great results. Never send speakers with UPS or you will be sorry :-( |
It will take a class action suit to get UPS to change there ways regarding how they deal with claims, I'm not sure why they sell insurance,except to increase thier bottom line. |
my 2 cents, just had usps treat my amp as a football and drop kick it from ny to denver. it was insured packed well and stamped fragile at least 10 times by the post office. scratched, bent face plate etc....they said it would be difficult to file a claim....what the hell is the insurance for!!!
alan |
If you know that you packed it correctly, submited all the required paperwork, and they still deny your claim, take them to small claims court. Small claims court is a hassle for them and if they don't show up you could win by default.
In the past I have shipped stats via air. Recently when I needed to ship an item, I was told since 9/11 that I could not use air freight at all. I next went to Bax Global and was told that they will only accept shipments that are from business to business. They will not take shipments from an individual.
Good luck with your case. |
In 2-years of running my small business I have shipped approximately 1500 boxes with UPS and had only 2 claims. I double box everything and never had a single claim when I pack properly. Both claims were on items not packed correctly by me. I was paid on one and not on the other. UPS ships millions of boxes every day and marking "Fragile" or "Handle with Care" is meaningless as they do not read what is on the box. Their people are paid to move quantities of boxes and not slow down to read labels. I never ship large speakers with them as there is no way to pack them properly. All large speakers should go by Truck and be palletized for safety. It is more expensive by truck but they typically arrive in much better shape. UPS will do their job if you do yours and pack correctly is my input. Double box everything with 2 inches of packing around the inner box. Do not ever ship units with tubes installed unless that is how the manufacturer ships them in the first place. If you follow those simple rules UPS will be a very good experience. If not, you will have lots of problems with trying to collect insurance. Wally |
I second everything written about FedEx Ground, esp. the comment of Jax2. A couple of years ago I recommended this service but NO MORE! They have lost shipments (twice so far), broken items double-boxed in original factory packaging (PSB Image 5T speakers, woofer magnets shorn off the back and banging around the inside of the cabinet, cabinets damaged too), and made the claims process impossible. However, as Jax2 and others said, persevere. I have so far been paid for a lost shipment and two other items that were damaged. Two other claims are still pending and I don't know what they will do. The company seemed to be better a year ago than it is now. Use air services for anything fragile or irreplaceable. Better yet, drive to pick it up yourself, a lesson I learned w/a turntable. Last year, I drove to upper New York to pick up an LP-12, the seller drove down from Maine, we met at a restaurant at near the equidistant point.
Good luck, keep bugging them, hope you took pictures of the boxes and all damage. |
WOW,, this is a sensitive subject,, so i will try and keep myself in check!
Fed X ground WILL smash your box, UPS is better, but still not great, however, THE MAIN problem with shipping is HORRID packing, i have bought too many items to count online, and spent countless thousands of dollars. Learn from my lesson, DO NOT BUY FROM A SHIPPER THAT WILL NOT PACK PER YOUR SPECIFICATIONS!
Factory packaging is almost always insufficient, and most morons that ship, wrap some bubble wrap around a cd player, wrap cardboard around it, add liberal tape and call it good!
(yes, literally)
I read one thread here that thought peanuts should be sufficient peanuts are FOOD ;-)
PLEASE remember to use multiple layers of cardboard, styrofoam works MUCH better than bubble wrap, and you can buy sheets of it at any Home Depot type place. For heavy amps etc, use at LEAST 4 inches of solid foam on ALL sides.
PLEEEEEEEEEAAASSSSSSSSE???????????
Happy shipping ;-) |
My 2 cents: Shipped a Carver tuner that was damaged in transit by UPS. Would have to look back at my records but it took almost two months of phone tag (I am out of town frequently due to work); which was very difficult to accomplish. I had to furnish all kinds of info. ie. cost new, cost used, cost to replace, etc.... and on and on. They eventually paid the insurance price to the buyer, he came out very well and they still sent the tuner back to me? Would advise patience and persistence, and keep all copies of everything. Best, Charlie |
I've had two claims with ups both handled quickly and easily. They paid me fast and they let me keep the broken speakers too! |
Buckingham is right about the 4 foot drop. Have you ever seen the 'assembly lines' our packages go through to get sorted and out to the planes? It would just make you wince! I've become a big believer in overpacking and double-boxing. Much worse than UPS, IMO, is FedexGround!! They've destroyed no less than six separte shipments I've either sent or received, and most were well-packed. I've had to deal with claims with them, and let me tell you they make it as difficult as possible to pursue. That is the job of their claims handlers in my experience. The only way you are going to get you claim paid is to be utterly relentless. They are counting on you giving up. With my claim I actually filed a claim with the Better Business Bureau, which is when they finally paid it! Mine was an $800 subwoofer which was utterly destroyed by FedexGround. The box looked like it had been through a war! If you want to get paid, don't give up, and continuously express your outrage (assuming that you believe it is justified...if the speakers were actually poorly packed then it probably is not worth the effort, and you have to decide wheter it is morally right to pursue it further). As Buckingham suggests, with more fragile items it is best to go with an air service, rather than ground. In the end it is worth the extra cost simply in piece of mind! For economy and effeciency I have not found a better alternative to USPS Priority Mail. They have never damaged a package I've sent or received. Unfortunately their size limits prohibit a package the size of your speakers.
Good luck! |
I once recieve a claim from UPS on a pair NHT speakers that were shipped to me. The corner of the orignal box where the speakers were damaged was severely crushed. This was more obvious then most cases and the claim was handled well by UPS, but it did take about 8 weeks to get the funds. It may be much harder to argue when the box does not show any damaged.
I use Fed Ex ground when possible. "Knock on wood" so far so good, even with Magnepan's. |
UPS is fine as long as the package is overpacked to the point where you can drop it from a 4ft height with no damage. Martin Logans would be the last thing I'd think of shipping UPS. I think electrostatics should be shipped air only or BAX global. I get to file a claim with them this week too! Fun, fun fun.... |
Good luck . . . . I had a package shipped via UPS that was packed by one of UPS's approved Mailboxes Etc. type places. UPS beat up the box and damaged the Rotel amp that was inside. Now they're refusing to pay the claim because the SELLER doesn't have the original invoice showing what HE paid for the amp (it was used). Apparently, what I paid for the amp, and what it was insured for, are completely irrelevant . . . . |
I recently had a sub destroyed by ups, initually they claimed it was insufficient packing, but was packed in original packing, I think this is their standard procedure, I continued to push my claim and threatened legal action, they finnally paid my claim, but not all that it was insured for, but it was enough to cover my losses, I would be very carefull about what I ship by ups or fed ex ground , and be prepared for a long fight when they destroy it, good luck |
A couple of months ago I shipped a heavy tube amp about 150 miles. I thought I had sufficiently protected it with bubble wrap and popcorn. They tell me when it arrived it looked like someone had thrown it off a tall building. All of the tubes had come out of their sockets, three were shattered, and the corner of the face plate was bent. The receiver said not to bother filing a claim as UPS would just say it wasn't properly packaged. I had the carton marked FRAGIL in several places. |
I once had a claim ejected, but I fought it and won. You must prove to them that the packing wasn't the problem. Possibly going back to the manufacturer of the speakers and comparing to the original shipping method.
Good luck,
Jeff |
How much was your claim? I recently got paid on a very small claim ($60) with no problems, but I suspect your claim is much larger. A few questions:
Was the packing the original factory boxes? Did UPS inspect the boxes before accepting the insurance contract? Have they told you they have made the decision to not cover the loss?
You can try hassling them more, but they are used to it. They have built in bureaucratic filters that make it impossible to find a human being who has the authority and the willingness to give you what you want.
You might have to sue them. If there is a factual dispute as to the boxes, they might be willing to settle with you.
Good luck. |
My history with them is not good.I lost a few small ( broken ) items and got nowhere and not worth pursuing.They won't even consider payback if the article isn't dbl.boxed. It seems they will look for any oportunity they can find to not pay you back,short of lawsuit. I can understand your frustration.Be prepared to be for a fight.... Good Luck |
