any lawyers in this forum care to give an advice?

There are two things to consider in order : first, the facts and only then the law

what’s troubling to me is the bold in your post: “ … Arrived damaged, claims denied, been getting the runaround since the purchase date. … This is a problem between the seller and its shipper, not me....I’m just a receiver of damaged item.

In general, It is indeed only the seller that can ( and otherwise should ) make a damage claim against the shipper . The fact that you state that the claims were already “denied” for ?? reasons (s), … sowhat further detailed facts can you provide in this matter?

As you say, it’s generally between seller-shipper , so what written documents have you been provided in support of the claim denial by either of these two other parties?

MY TAKE

The hard facts for the claim denial is pivotal.

- Did Seller properly insure the shipment ? Shippers don’t usually renege claims without reason .

- One obscure fact that does sometime arise, is that Shipper uses a 3rd party insurer for potential claims against them, ( in the fine print ….) and those terms in that “insurance” clause may have exclusionary and cryptic terms ..

More facts to glean include inter alia:

- Did you as Buyer have ANY discussion or input at all in engaging the Shipper and Shipper terms?

- Was there any express or tacit approval by you in engaging this particular Shipper / costs/ insured value / terms? If “yes” , it gets more complex, and the spectre of potential shared risk of loss arises.

- AND especially …we’re you fully and properly advised of the Shipper / full shipping terms in advance?

- claims recovery may have time expiry requirements … any issue? It’s nine months out.

-intuitively, there is a risk that Seller may have indeed chintzed and just lied to you about his version of the facts, which is a dark undercurrent in your post IMO. Why otherwise would he ghost you?

SUMMARY

Before we pillory Seller in the Court of Public Opinion, a lot more facts need to be fleshed out first.

It is entirely possible that Seller also is a partial victim here because of Shipper asserting an obscure claims denial exclusionary term.

However, In that case, you may have a case against him personally if a material term or fact was not disclosed to you. .…the question becomes how much $$ are you going to invest to do so?

- But before you get aggressively kamikaze “legalese”, please read the following quote and first get more facts than what you have posted to date. ( hint: it’s not that simple as your post is now)

“ …There are three sides to every story: your side, my side, and the truth. And no one is lying. Memories shared serve each differently.”

― Robert Evans

 

good luck.

Another great example to demand signature (after inspection) service.

And another reason that I have never bought a used speaker, and never will.

The lawyers are working for pay. Beware of that.

Almost a year ago 🤔. That ship had likely already sailed …

The lawyers are working for pay. Beware of that.

Great point. How much were the speakers? Dollars.

 

 

Might repair of the speakers be a less expensive route?

Just a few questions. Am a retired lawyer, not currently licensed to practice anywhere. So I won't. But  were the speakers visibly damaged upon receipt? If so  why did you acept them? If not visibly damaged, how do you know they are not defective from a manufacturer's defect? Or, were they damaged before shipment and the seller concealed that fact? Each of those three answers could lead to a different approach. At least this happened less than a year ago so there may be a valid warranty claim and the statute of limitations is probably no bar yet. So, not sure I can help.

Do you have unpacking videos?

First question did you pay by PayPal ?

how long has it been since you payed for them ?  
PayPal gives you 6 months ,a credit card only 3 months .

please let  us know , and how much $$ did you spend 

Were speakers in their original box ,what brand , they are all important factors.

last possibility is to file suit in the state they were shipped , i had a trial by phone 

I was in MA , the defendant in WA state ,we had a 3way conversation ,I sent all info 

to the prosecutors office  I win the case  and was paid within 30 days . This was about 6 years ago.

Try making a complaint to your attorney general. In NY, this can be done online.  I made complaints against AT&T and an insurance company and actually got results. It’s free and companies generally listen when they get a call from the AG. 

wow, thank you guys for awesome inputs. Yes, package was somewhat damaged. During freight delivery, the driver also stack the speakers on top of another. They are about 200lbs/ each. I took pics of that. I also yelled at the driver. Simply left it stacked front of my yard. Yes, i informed the seller right away. I never signed for the paper, it was forged signature when I requested a copy of paperwork from the freight company. Paid by credit card. No paypal. sorry to disclose, but 5 figure $ item. thankyou Again everyone. Alot of things to consider.

Your first step should have been to refuse shipment call shipping co. and reported damage and that you were refusing receipt. Then you should have contacted the seller and had him report the damage to shipping company to start claim process. Once you took delivery moved into your home snd opened them you list you case. You should have left them in the yard where they were delivered took pictures and also disputed payment with your credit card company.

A couple of years ago I proceeded to rebuild my surrounds.(baby towers) I ordered the new drives, Binding posts and some new Capacitors from an prominent online dealer. Their shipment was automatically insured for #100 which only constituted 1/4^th of the cost but I had no idea of what I was in for.
I tracked the package through the USPS and it was supposed to be “On the Truck for Delivery” on a Friday afternoon. I waited and no delivery was made. Then I got notice that it was “On the Truck for Delivery” to be delivered on Saturday. I just happened to be sitting next to the Front entry way of the apt building around noon and I got an email stating that the Postman tried to deliver the package a couple of minutes past noon, but that was an outright lie. Then that afternoon about 5:30 I got an E-Mail stating that the package was delivered “In or Around the Mailbox”. My Apt is 25 yards from the boxes and in a direct line of sight. Also I have a perfect view of the parking lot. No truck had been at our building and within 30 seconds I was outside my door headed to the Post boxes. There was no package anywhere near.
I went to the main Postal Station (Mile High Station) which is about 3 miles away in down town Denver and talked to the Post Master. He claimed that it was delivered though it was almost unintelligible as his English was almost unrecognizable. He called the Carrier while aI was there and the carrier denied the delivery, but the post master claimed that the carriers hand scanner had scanned the package at the time stated in the E-Mail as delivered. The next day I talked to the carrier in person and he told me that he was indeed the carrier on that route on the Saturday in question but he had NOT DELIVERED ANY PACKAGE OF ANY KIND, to this building. The bottom line is the USPS claiming that it was delivered denied the insurance claim. It took months but I did get the Online Dealer to take responsibility and they reimbursed me for the original cost. You have absolutely NO RIGHTS when you are fighting the USP as they can say whatever they want and get away with it. You are totally at the mercy of the originating shipper so always check the track record and hopefully that of their delivery history and complaints before forking over any money to ANYONE.

@sambo00701

Can you tell us the nature and severity of the damage? Is there functional damage to the speakers?  Pretty rare to have damaged goods with minor box damage...but it does happen. I recently ordered a four shelf equipment stand with three inch solid maple shelves. The shelves were fully protected with solid styrofoam and a heavy box. A corner of one shelf had a 1/2" flattened corner as if it was dropped on a corner. The guy that made the shelves photographs all before shipment and no damage, but both box and styrofoam were 100%. We couldn’t claim that the shipper was at fault because there wasn’t any damage to the box.  Perhaps, you are in the same position as both myself and the vendor found ourselves in.  The vendor offered to repair the shelf, or refund $200.  

 

The lawyers are working for pay. Beware of that.

Great point. 

 

Seriously? Do you work for free? How about your mechanic or doctor?

 

Most of the advice thus far is what can be done long before you reach this stage. At this point you likely need a lawyer since no one is speaking to you, you allege there is a forged delivery signature and there is a significant about of money at risk. A  lawyer can give you state specific advice of your rights and remedies at this stage of the transaction. There are usually time limitations for your remedies and you are spending valuable time looking for a "magic bullet" on the forum. 

I am licensed in California and Massachusetts, but the advice is pretty much the same everywhere.  First, assuming that the dealer was an authorized dealer, and assuming that the dealer arranged for shipping (even if you were charged for it), the sale is not complete until it arrives into your possession in working and undamaged condition.  You have an easy claim against the dealer and I would also name the speaker manufacturer as a defendant as well, because if he is in their dealer network, they have a vested interest in replacing damaged equipment.  Easy case.  The dealer can fight it out with the freight company.

If YOU arranged for the shipping and paid for it, they can argue that the sale was complete at the delivery to your chosen freight company, and if it was damaged in transit, you have to take it up with the freight company.  The problem there is that as a common carrier, the freight company's liability is limited to something like 60 cents a pound, unless you purchased insurance to cover the value of the speakers.  Not that you can't sue them for negligence, but there is a defense.

Third, if you paid by credit card, such as AMEX, many of the cards will cover you for defective or damaged products purchased with their card, and you can make a claim to the card.  with proof, the card company will charge back the purchase price.  You can even try that if you were responsible for the shipping.  Without further information, its tough to give you any more than broad generalities on how I would handle it if it was me.  

I had purchased a sub on here and the seller had it boxed up and UPS and shipped UPS.  It arrived to me looking like it was used as a football, box broken, corners of the sub dented, knobs broken.  Seller denied responsibility.  I opened a PayPal dispute. they denied it for reasons unknown, and I immediately called them and argued with them and pointed to the pictures and unboxing video.  I was refunded my money, and I believe that the seller got the money from UPS, because their store had packed and shipped.  DO NOT BE PASSIVE.  Go after everyone to get a replacement or your money.

 As a former UPS driver, I can assure you,95% of UPS employees have no regard at all for the merchandise. ''FRAGILE'' means nothing at all.I don't think FEDEX or DHL are much different.  My advice? Stay away from mail order HI-FI equipment.

@rockysantoro 

 

Thank you very much for your perspective. 
 

I typically purchase through a dealer and he delivers it. If there is a problem… doesn’t matter what kind… he deals with it.

I had an expensive piece of art delivered by ups to my house when I wasn’t there and the box was damaged. I took pictures of the box the way they delivered it. They I open up the box and the frame was damaged so I took more pics of the damage. I submitted a case to ups with all the pics and I got a new $2000 frame.

on expensive purchases, I always pay for signature required so when it’s delivered, I can check the condition of the box before I sign for it and if it is damaged, I will refuse the package.

For years now, I won’t ship expensive equipment, local sale with cash

Delivery company drivers share a kinship with bank tellers......they both develop an indifference to the valuables they handle on a daily basis. Of course, I'm not suggesting that bank tellers are careless with money, just that the money becomes only another thing that has to be dealt with. So it's not surprising to me that delivery drivers seem to be ambivalent about whether the item gets damaged or not. If an item is properly packed, only the most Neanderthal treatment will cause damage to it.

I just packed up and shipped a 12" sunfire sub. those subs are notoriously difficult to ship, and have arrive, undamaged.

I had to custom make the packaging, over time, as I thought about how to go about it.

When I was done, I had a 55lb box that could be stood on, on any side, and more.. and even bounced down a set of stairs. Which is how an item should be packed, if one is going to try and ship it via UPS or FED-EX or USPS.

moto_man is correct in that you need to go after everyone. During the time I worked in insurance, all claims made by condominium owners for things that went wrong on a major scale sued everyone involved with the construction, no matter how small the job was. 

It was like a wake up call that the owners weren't messing around and forced all parties to get together in a timely fashion, eliminate those who couldn't have been involved, and bring it to an end in a timely manner.

Once they have to respond in court, they start to behave.

All the best,
Nonoise