If you get the bi-wire version you will have more flexibility down the road should you choose to go down that path, or to bi-amp also. No downside that I can see.
No whether bi-wiring makes a difference on this particular speaker ... that I don't know, but I'm sure you will get your share of people taking both side of that question. :) |
You won't know until you try it |
My speakers are set up for bi-wire. May be more "lore than law" but per the manufacturer, bi-wire sounds better than straight wire. Who knows??? Could be hype. But as Ptm... said, also permit bi-amping as well. Most people seem to agree that properly set up bi-amping does improve the sound. |
I have VonSchweikert VR4JRs and they sound MUCH better biwired than single wired. I spoke with Albert's son at RMAF and he recommended the biwire option which is about $200. extra. I'd do it if it were me.
As ptmconsulting suggests it does ope up several options for the future; you might want to ask VSA if bi-amping is an option with the bi-wire upgrade. |
Biwreing may or maynot benefit since you're adding a reactance to crossover equation.
Biamping is what biwire terminals are for to benefit. |
If you are not going to biamp then it is just a hassle to have biwire imho. Need biwire cables and some agrue you need true biwire cables or double runs for best sound. Others say jumpers are better and then you have to choose which jumpers sound best...
Opens up a lot of possible directions and results. Some like this others feel it is a hassle. If you like to tweak and mess with gear, then biwire is good. If not, then better without it. |
I used to bi-wire my old MTM speakers. Why? because I had 2 sets of wire and the speaker had 2 sets of binding posts. Was it better than a single wire? Slightly, but not enough to spend tons of money on if you don't already have the wire.
Now I have Apogees and bi-wiring is mandatory. The difference is not even remotely subtle - it is huge.
So YMMV, but without the extra speaker posts you will never know, and as others have said, ask the manufacturer their opiniion. |
If biwiring doesn't sound good I usually change the speakers. ;) |
I have single wire, biwire and triwire speakers. If I were given the choice I would go for single wire. I have biwired, biamped etc and single to me gives the best overall sound. I use to biamp my Duetta Sigs but when I get them renovated I am going to change them to single wire also. Why; I just think one amp seeing one impedance load traveling down one wire compared to 2 amps seeing 2 quite different impedance curves traveling down two separate wires is far simpler and likely to sound better. YMMV |
Single wire is good. Bi-wiring that much better - eh, I dunno. Bi-amping - now we're talking, maybe (well, at least according to Elliot Sound Products and sites like that). The flexibility is probably worth something plus if you can bi-amp (and TIA moment - I haven't bi-amp'd VR33s) you might find something you'd consider worth the price of admission. Maybe start with http://sound.westhost.com/bi-amp.htm and research more from that? |
Usually it is well worth it. I can't speak for your speakers specifically but the several pair I have owned over many years have mostly been bi-wire and each of them have appreciated it. It also adds the freedom of bi-amping which opens up even more thrilling options. Plus, there's no harm done with the extra terminals except for the bit of extra $$$. Go with the bi-wire. |
My Von Schweikert VR8's sound much better bi-wired. |
Thanks so much for all the terrific help. |
I would ask your dealer if you could borrow both to determine whether or not you want to biwire. I've never heard a difference. My ears are probably hosed.I've found that single wire is normally a larger gauge and sounds better than the equivalent bi-wire (which is usually much smaller gauge). I run Audioquest Rockefeller which is pretty thick twisted pair cable. The batteries last for years. |
Biwiring must depend on the speaker brand...Alan Yun told me NOT to biwire my Silverline Preludes that he designed...he said they would be "less coherent". I biwired them anyway (yeah man...a rebel!), listened, put 'em back to single wire, listened again, and discovered he was completely right in a big way...they sound MUCH better single wired. He da man. |
I'm not sure why this is better, but it is. My cables (LAT SS1000II) are single-wire at the amp end to bi-wire at the speakers (Spendor S8e) and this was definitely an improvement over the same cable in single-wire to single-wire with jumpers. |
10-29-11: Wolf_garcia
Biwiring must depend on the speaker brand...Alan Yun told me NOT to biwire my Silverline Preludes that he designed I've read this about Silverlines. I'm curious why the speaker maker would make his speakers biwireable but recommend against it. |
I've read this about Silverlines. I'm curious why the speaker maker would make his speakers biwireable but recommend against it. Because some folks will want to do it it anyway. You have to give customers what they want. If you don't, you have cut your sales potential way down. Just my take on it. |
Some people like incoherency I suppose...but there does seem to be a little trend among other speaker makers to supply one set of posts and make a statement about it. I think the option is nice, and gives the listener something to play around with...my friend who turned me on to Preludes uses 'em biwired, but then he's incoherent most of the time anyway. |
Tpreaves, that makes no sense to me. Why would a customer want to do something the speaker designer recommends against? The sales drop in my mind would only be for people who have biwire cable already and want to stick with it.
I read the downloadable Silverline manual last night which states that biwiring is recommended. Also, I contacted Alan last night regarding biwiring as I just bought Silverlines (and am biwiring them); he emailed back and wrote to do what sounded best. I think the latter statement wins. Perhaps his comments to Wolfman were specifically for the Preludes. At any rate, all of this is hijacking this thread. Sorry, OP |
10-30-11: Tholt
Tpreaves, that makes no sense to me. Why would a customer want to do something the speaker designer recommends against? Why does anybody do what they do? This is just one of those unanswerable questions in life. Remember, we are talking about a bunch of kooks here!!!! |
My conversation the Yun was only about the Preludes...and I confirmed his thoughts when I tried it both ways. I've biwired other speakers and it seemed to improve 'em so I was actually surprised. |
Bi-wiring usually lets more cable reach your drivers...whether that's necessarily always a good thing depends on your speakers? I have found when I bi-wire with 2 sets of the exact same cable there tends to be overall improvement and what I like is using 2 different cables for each driver and in so doing I can tailor each cable "synergistically" with each (much like power cords or different I/C's in your system). My Silverline Sonata 2's were bi-wired as such, much to their benefit. My 2 cents.. (again). |
I've had the VR 33's since 3/11 and opted for the bi-wire option so I could use them bi-amped. I really enjoy the speakers but now want to experiment with different wiring. Currently running the Speltz Anti Cables. I think the bass is definitely improved with it's own amp. Enjoy. |
What amp are you using for the bass? And the mid and high? |
I have an Exposure 2010s integrated running the mid-highs and the matching power amp dedicated to the bass. They are both rated at 75 watts and seem more than adequate if I choose to push them. My first venture into decent 2 channel in more than 20 years so I can't compare to any other system. I had Quad 22L2's beforehand but opted for the VR33's because I liked the idea of the speaker placement not being dependent on having to be so far out in the room. I also liked the fact of a 10" speaker for the bass and eliminating my subwoofer. Rooms and placement I'm sure will give a wide opinion of the speakers performance. |
Danham, I was wondering whether to keep my JL Audio sub with the VR 33's? Do you get enough bass for eg, listening to jazz and rock? I don't listen to much pipe organ music so getting down to 20Hz is not an issue but a famous speaker designer and manufacturer told me never to believe the specs: that 30Hz really means 35 Hz and a well integrated sub is the best way to go. "Well integrated" is of course much harder to do than say. |
Ldworet...I still have my Quad subwoofer but haven't tried hooking it up with the VR's but have been curious as of late (can always tweak). I haven't really noticed the need for any more bass with the jazz and rock I listen too, depends on the recording and whether my commonwall neighbor is home (I have a townhome)and I need to be cognizant of the bass if I crank the volume. That's another project I'm going to investigate. I would have to purchase a longer length of speaker cable to reattach the sub since I had to move it from it's previous position and have recently reinvested monies in my dac and interconnects to experiment with mids and treble instead. I have my speakers placed 12' apart and 11" from rear wall with a slight toe in for my set up, room is about 24 x 24 with 9' ceiling. Probably not an ideal set up but I have constraints with the room layout (and to keep my wife happy). I also have movies playing thru my system (two channel) but am not looking for the explosive boom or surround effect from the soundtracks which a sub would definitely enhance. Listening to Keith Jarret Koln Concert from a hi-rez download right now, sounds good to me (that could get expensive). Did you get your speakers yet? |
