Analog Front End Next Upgrade

@nordicnorm, your argument that solid state phonos offer more bang for the buck than tube doesn’t wash especially with your comparison of a new Allnic 1201 at $3,500.00 (can be bought new from a dealer on Agon for less than $2,600.00 and have sold one slightly used my self for under $2,000.00) to a used Blue Circle for $2,000.00. If you haven’t heard the little Allnic you really need to give it a try.

Yeah, I would've done either the same or got Sutherland 20/20.
However I am a Purist Audio cables fan and don't use Cardas, though I am unfamiliar with his newer cables.

@raymonda Thank you.  I'm not quite sure what separates the Scheu SL from the Benz ACE SL.  There's also not much press on the Scheu SL cartridge so its hard to know how it compares to other carts in the $1500 price point. I've owned an ACE many years ago and I do think the Scheu is a step above the ACE, but I wish I knew what Scheu does to differentiate their cartridge and justify the price increase.

From that perspective I do feel like my cartridge is a bit of an unknown quantity, and I'm looking forward to seeing if a more resolving phono stage like the Lehmann Decade will bring more performance out of my table/cartridge combo. 

I I think you made a wise choice. Next, when it is time to replace your stylus, send it into Soundsmith and have Peter upgrade it with a level 2 tip and a sapphire cantilever. I did this with an ACE L and was floored by the improvement. It came very close to my Ruby 3 and is currently my second favorite cartridge. It beat out my Glider and Zyx R100, various modded Adcom and Ortofons. The Ruby 3 ultimately wins out but that is a 3500 cartridge.

Update:  I ordered the Lehmann Decade Phono Stage!  I understand the push for a tubed phono stage.  I'm currently using a Hovland HP-100 tubed with NOS pre-war yugo 12AX7s.  This setup is for headphone use only, so I feel that SS is probably my best bet.  Vinyl through headphones is pretty amazing, but it takes so much more effort to perfect it, IMO anyway.  I'm hoping the new decade phono stage will open up more detail and throw a bigger image.  The black cube SE II was already pretty damn quiet so its hard to imagine improving that parameter.  I think I will change out my cables next.  That should set me up to make a cartridge upgrade a couple years from now.

nordicnorm-my post is subjective, and I think most of us here, already know the tube rap- noisey, distortion etc.

Your comparison is subjective regarding SS vs Tube.

There isn't anything in my post that's backwards.
How many articles have we read about a very nice SS stage, and the reviewer mentions-it's almost like tubes"??

Yes, I'd say tube phono stage of equal performance level with the advantages of tube sound would cost at least two times more. That's the reason why I still keep my Acoustech phono. I seriously doubt that those Allnic and Blue Circle could match it in terms of dynamics and bass. I would have to go higher, to the level of $5k tube phono stages to have everything better.

When I removed the power conditioner, there was an improvement...a no cost investigation.

@tablejockey wrote:

" Have you considered a tube stage? Something like this will put your table/cart on the next level of "real" which only the BEST $$$ SS units can match. "

I think you have it backwards. S/S phono stages are infinitely cheaper than tubed ones (for the same level of performance).

Tubes, by design, are inherently noisy, so to build a quiet tubed phono stage does not come cheap.

The Allnic H1201 (that you link to) proves my point. New, it is $3,500. It is a very good phono stage, but a Blue Circle BC707 S/S phono stage can be found used for under $2,000, and will match the Allnic H1201 in performance.

Now, you may prefer the sonic signature of the Allnic over the Blue Circle, but in terms of the amount of detail revealed, they will be identical.

cbl117-

I see some talk in here, about upgrading your phono stage.

Have you considered a tube stage? Something like this will put your table/cart on the next level of "real" which only the BEST$$$
SS units can match.

Depending how you  negotiate with the seller, it could be within your budget? I would consider cables the LAST part of the puzzle.

https://www.audiogon.com/listings/phono-allnic-audio-model-h1201-tube-phono-2017-08-10-preamplifiers

@cbl117 - I still think that with the great components you have the absolute best bang for your buck would be to upgrade your cables.

The Cardas cables you have are pretty good, but the gZero20 interconnect from KLE Innovations will give you more detail and clarity and a very much improved image and spatial isolation of the performers.

If that’s a little on the expensive side try the gZero3 - it’s also outstanding and by comparison to the gZero 20 will only be lacking a little on the details and clarity - but it’s still a superb performer.

They do not come with a ground wire, but that can be a very simple fix by using a small gauge wire from a store like Radio Shack and a couple of spades on the end. Personally - I prefer a separate ground wire anyway.

Replacing the RCA plugs on your existing cables will also provide many improvements if replacing the cables is not an option.

My recommendations for RCA’s are the Silver Harmony or the Absolute Harmony. The Pure harmony is very good RCA , but for that little $extra you can get the Absolute Harmony for the very best performance

Here are the links to my reviews...
http://image99.net/blog/files/category-klei-silver-harmony-rca.html
http://image99.net/blog/files/category-klei-pure-harmony-rca.html
http://image99.net/blog/files/category-klei-absolute-harmony-rca.html

These RCA’s really raise the performance level of any cable to its utmost best - you will be amazed! But the break-in period is quite long.

The KLE Innovations cables and RCA’s are extremely neutral and exceptionally dynamic.

Regards...

inna, I agree with your assessment about upgrading the phono first.  I'm going to look into exchanging the Black Cube SE II for the Decade.  I think there is more to be had with the Scheu and Prime, and the phono will help to squeeze out that last bit of performance.  

After the phono upgrade, I'm going to look into moving up the Cardas line to Clear Cygnus cables. 

I would upgrade the phono first not the cartridge, and this new phono should be able to handle Lyra Delos and Dyna XX that you might get later. What to upgrate to? I think, you could consider starting separate thread while listing all your equipment and preferred sound and taste in music. Some will say go up the Lehmann line, some will recommend Pass or Sutherland, yet other will say to go tubes.

@cbl117 I tried Audio Sensibility Impact phono cables and wasn't particularly impressed. Music was muddy and not as clear as my Jelco/Mogami 2534 cable. 

Well, here’s the thing, I can’t really complain about anything in particular with my current setup. I seem to be stuck in this perpetual upgraditis, and I’m wondering what is my weak link now.

Within the past 6 months I’ve upgraded my phono stage from musical surroundings Phonomena II+ to Black Cube SE II, which noticeably lowered the noise floor and improved soundstage focus and detail retrieval. I upgraded from a Hana SL to the MC Scheu SL, and noticed vast improvement in timbre. Most recently I traded out an aries scout for the vpi prime. The improvement was most noticeable in less distortion which resulted in smoother sound and eliminated the last bit of tracing errors I had at the inner grooves.

I think after all these positive upgrades, I want more, and wondering what else I could improve. Would moving to Cardas cygnus cabling offer any improvements (assuming my gear is resolving enough)? I’m also considering trading up to a Lehmann Decade because I think the phono stage may be my weak link. Is there a rule of thumb for order of precedence with analog front end gear?

Pangea cords appear to be the weakest link. But what exactly is not good enough, what would you like to improve?

I have a 1m long Cardas Iridium Phono cable from table to phono, and 0.5m Cardas Iridium from phono to headphone amp.  

I'm using a PS-Audio dectet power conditioner and Pangea AC-14SE power cords to power the phono stage and headphone amplifier.

Any experience with Audio Sensibility cables?  They seem to be a popular recommendation in the VPI forum.

What IC's are you using from the phono to the amp?
Are you using the standard power cables on the Lehman?

I've found cables make a more noticeable difference on components in this price range

All your front end components are very good. A $2000 upgrade to any of them will not make any significant improvements, but quality cables will.

Take a look at the KLE Innovations web site.

Their gZero20 IC's are superb value (if you are using phono), but even theri gZero6 cables are exceptionally good for the money

Their power cables look to be very good also.

Regards...