Best,
gary
An Excellent New Read: "A Brief History Of Why Artists Are No Longer Making A Living..."
Whart, I thank you very much for your extremely informative post. (As you stated in regard to earning a living in the beginning, it has never been easy, but it's almost impossible now) That, of course, was the key- to be able to make enough money from songwriting or performing to be able to devote full time to the art without having to work a "straight" job to put food on the table and cover the rent, kid’s needs, etc. When there were nightclubs in St. Louis and East St. Louis, Ill, I saw many good bands and musicians who were unknown. Since I've been an avid jazz fan all of my life, I think I'm qualified to judge what's really good in comparison to all the jazz greats that have gone before now. I saw a band at a club in E. St. Louis that was truly unforgettable; one of the instruments they used was an "African finger piano", and they incorporated it in a fashion that I've never heard, nor can I find anything that resembles their music, but it was so intoxicating that the place was packed whenever they played. That group was unique and original; they played music that set them apart from anything I've ever heard before or since, and that's not easy. Now, the places for new musicians to begin no longer exist in numbers. Believe me, I've seen and heard fantastic unknown musicians all over this country in clubs that I don't even remember; but some of them could have become household names, they were just that talented. If you're going to raise chickens, you have to have a breeding ground, if you're going to raise musicians, you have to have nightclubs (or other venues) where they can perform live in front of audiences. |
I did read the article. Thank you. For me there are two parallel points raised in the article: the difficulty of making a living as an artist in the contemporary music business and, the loss of craft in the music industry. The latter is of interest to me and was not resolved by the article. There was a time, "the golden ages" when craft and artistry were inseparable. Take photography for instance- a parallel but overlapping universe. Technical craft and artistic content were appreciated by a consuming public. Ansel Adams was the gold standard for both. As photographic technology changed with instant picture taking and then digital picture taking and the internet, the taste of the general public has shifted away from technical excellence and is totally focused on "cultural content". Very few people care about lenses, cameras, metering, depth of field and "pre-visualization" etc... It’s all about grabbing the shot, quickly adding some post-processing with an app. and then hitting the send button. The same has happened to music. Technical excellence is just not appreciated beyond the few aging audiophiles who still care about all that front-end craft. It’s all about getting and sharing a feeling within the context of urgency and need for a shot of dopamine. The general market just does not care if the music is well-recorded, well-produced, well-mastered and well pressed. There are no sit-down listening sessions. The post-war generation took pride in their interests. Audio, and photography, as well as others like woodworking, fly-fishing etc.., were part technical pursuits that people aspired to master. This is simply no longer true for the majority of the public. As much as I enjoy many of the benefits of the digital age, and I do see small pockets of interest in "craft", the arc of craft is trending towards convenience- and with it will be the demise of appreciation for technical excellence. Audiophiles who pursue and enjoy technical excellence as inseparable with artistic excellence are on the decline. The current resurgence in interest in analog vinyl is, IMHO, a revolt against convenience but it is also an anomaly and will not survive the relentless advances in technology and the cultural shifts that it will bring. |
@voiceofvinyl: "The post-war generation took pride in their interests. Audio, and photography, as well as others like woodworking, fly-fishing etc.., were part technical pursuits that people aspired to master. This is simply no longer true for the majority of the public." Like the article itself, and a number of other replies here, I think this too represents looking back at the good old days through rose colored glasses. The truth is that none of the things you mentioned were ever part of high level technical pursuits for "the majority of the public". They aren't now and they weren't then. And the truth of the matter is that in terms of numbers alone there are way more people doing things like advanced amateur photography than at any time in history. The public taste for quick snapshots may have worsened and the value the _general_ public has for professional or fine art photography may not be what it once was per capita but it is thriving. I am deep into amateur and fine art photography and the number of people out there doing amazing high level work including large format fine art printing is simply amazing. As with the article I think it is too easy to confuse what the majority of the world thinks and does with the level of success and expertise that still exists and thrives. It is also too easy to see things through a local lens and I might be just as guilty as @orpheus10 in this matter. He sees, in his purview, a loss of music venues and night clubs. In my purview I see a boom. The music scene in this region is thriving and vital, the quality of music in many cases is excellent and young people are embracing it. The music industry has _always_ been hard to break into. There is nothing new about that. |
@orpheus10 @voiceofvinyl @n80 Thank you one and all for the last 3 posts here. n80 "As with the article I think it is too easy to confuse what the majority of the world thinks and does with the level of success and expertise that still exists and thrives." I think I'm now beginning to see where you are coming from and I might be coming around to your way of thinking on it. Thank you. |
Audiophiles who pursue and enjoy technical excellence as inseparable with artistic excellence are on the decline. The current resurgence in interest in analog vinyl is, IMHO, a revolt against convenience but it is also an anomaly and will not survive the relentless advances in technology and the cultural shifts that it will bring. That is a very interesting paragraph. While I count myself among those who pursue technical excellence, I don't know anyone else personally; it's too expensive; people I know would rather go on a cruise. They are the multitudes who spent their entire lives with vinyl; they're into digital because they know how expensive a high end rig is, and that's the only reason to go to analog. The mantra that vinyl is warmer, will not penetrate their deaf ears; while this may be true, it's not warm enough for them to spend the minimum 3K to make it better than digital, and 3K is conservative; real audiophiles know that. Once those "newbees" who bought into cheap analog rigs, realize they have to pony up a few more K to run with the big dogs, they either pony up or fold. Since they don't know about the expertise required for "analog nirvana", in addition to the extra K; they're going to fold, and that's why this resurgence is temporary. Reality is what is; not because I say it is, but because it is what it is. |
This is just a single article about one band but it seems to refute the premise of the original article on which this thread was based......except that the band sought after a more traditional Stax style SQ: https://theindustryobserver.thebrag.com/the-teskey-brothers-a-diy-success-story/ If you haven't heard this band.......you should. |
@n80 Thanks for the link. They do indeed seem like a great band. @orpheus10 "Once those "newbees" who bought into cheap analog rigs, realize they have to pony up a few more K to run with the big dogs, they either pony up or fold. Since they don't know about the expertise required for "analog nirvana", in addition to the extra K; they're going to fold, and that's why this resurgence is temporary." It seems to me like it all that may still be up in the air. To hear millennials tell it, they are much too debt laden (school, housing) to hold any illusions of being able to ever "upgrade" into anything beyond what may amount to them as a passing "nod" in the general direction of culture. If the lawyers that run the world could ever figure out what to do with the elephant in the room, China, then they all might otherwise feel that their copyright strategies might work at least well enough to go ahead and announce the worldwide cessation of CD production like they've been wanting to since 2015. But, in the current political climes, it doesn't exactly look like that might happen anytime soon. |
BTW Bill, my reference above to ’the lawyers that run the world’ was certainly not aimed at, or meant to resemble, you in any way. Some years ago I would’ve owned up to certain amount of perceived disdain on my part for the group I’m referring to, but anymore I’ve actually come to view all that they do as a necessary outgrowth of this increasingly interconnecting "global village" that all nations continually have to bump up against. The group I’m referring to operates under the auspices of the UN and I realize they are trying to coordinate the international effort to bring everybody collectively into the 21rst century. Although from your description of your background, yours and theirs seem rather different to me, but in any case, I do apologize if I have, or have appeared to have, thrown around the phrase recklessly...did not mean that to come off as any kind of backhanded remark toward you or anyone else here, FTM. Regards |
Thanks for posting a link to the article. Ian makes some interesting points, but he also misses a few points. First, recording software like Garage Band created a glut of dubious releases? He presents nothing to back this up. Second, he treats WWII as the beginning of time. There were professional musicians prior to WWII. I think musicians need to quit fretting about technology and look at solutions across history. How did Caruso make a living? How do current popular hip hop bands like Migos generate most of their income? They are not exactly selling physical albums like hot cakes. How is a band like Wilco able to keep chugging along? I think the common thread between all of them is hitting the road and playing live early and often. We live in an age where most people want to pay their ten bucks a month to stream their music. You're not going to change those people. |
Ivan, I'm just thankful that you are one of the few around here that's looking at anything outside of our little "ballywick". So many on Agon seem to live in some kind of insulated bubble; maybe they're in an upper economic class that's unconcerned about others who aren't. I'm from a generation where rich people were concerned with the welfare of poor people; that's changed dramatically, and those people will soon see how that has been to their detriment. Not meaning that poor people are going to rise up and harm rich people, but that "globalization" which initially only affected those who are less fortunate, is catching up to us all. |
In the old days, touring was considered part of record promotion. The record companies paid for all expenses incurred, which were deducted off the top of the gross from album sales, the artist/band receiving no royalty checks until the debt had been repaid. Those expenses involved not just the tour bus, hotels, food, drugs (yes, in some cases they were provided for hard-partying bands), etc., but also all advertising and promotion for the shows. Artists/bands also paid for all the advertising done for their record, including any payola. Oh yeah, they also paid for all the recording costs, as well as record production---LP, tape, and CD. All of that was also taken off the top. The album producer is paid off the gross profit, not the net like the artist/band. That’s why Last Waltz "producer" Robbie Robertson made a fortune off the movie and album, the other four members of The Band not a dime. Touring was always done at a loss---it cost more to tour than the amount of money ticket sales brought in. All the money an artist/band made were off record sales (and for songwriters from radio play, as miniscule as that income was). Now that album sales generate little or no income (unless you sell a LOT of them), artists/bands go on the road to eat and pay rent. Ticket prices reflect that reality! A ticket to see any show at The Fillmore, The Carousel Ballroom, or Winterland (all in San Francisco) in the late-60’s/early-70’s cost me $3.00/$3.50 (but the weed was free ;-). Hendrix, Cream, Jeff Beck, The Kinks, Elton John, Albert King, the doors, Quicksilver, Big Brother, you name it, $3.00/$3.50. No one sold merchandise at shows back then, whereas now a band may make as much (or more) from sales of merchandise as from ticket sales. But musicians working for peanuts is nothing new. When Commander Cody had a big hit on the radio ("Hot Rod Lincoln"), his guitarist, the great Telecaster player Bill Kirchen, complained in an interview that he was making less than a Berkeley (where the band was based) garbage man. Longtime Wings drummer Denny Seiwell has said McCartney was paying him $150/wk in the early 70’s. When McCartney’s current drummer, the phenomenal Art Laboriel, Jr., is off the road, he is teaching (giving music lessons). Musicians are like priests, they take a vow of poverty. Here’s a deep, dark, not-very-well-kept secret: many musicians (even pretty successful ones) rely on their girlfriend or wife for support. Here’s a story told by a band member whose name (and band) I have forgotten. That he and they were very well known I DO remember. The band was in the middle of recording their next album, and a record company executive visited the studio to see how things were going. The band took a break, and the executive said "Hey, let me bring in some pizzas for ya’ll". They finished the album, it was released, and when their first quarter accounting statement came in, they saw the executive had charged the pizzas to the band! One thing I liked about the early Rappers was than when they came into a meeting with record company execs, they would sit down and put their piece on the table, telling the execs that if any of them scr*wed with them (the artist), there would be dire consequences. |
@ivan_nosnibor the people that often rail against the system most are other lawyers! No slight read into your post. I teach now part time, I’m retired, and the challenge is helping young earnest people who are smart find a path that is meaningful and can pay the bills-- not unlike our artist friends. Well, that’s a stretch, but it’s a similar big universe of a talent pool with a small number of slots for people in the go-to firms to reach partnership level- and that business has changed too. My first question to any young person who is considering law school is to ask what they are passionate about. I’ve met many interesting people during my career and that was, in retrospect, probably one of the rewards for the hard work, hours and stress. |
@orpheus10 and @whart Much thanks for the kind words. @whoopycat "...he treats WWII as the beginning of time." I think that's just because that marks for him the beginning of his point of involvement with the industry and he was perhaps reluctant to try to account for any of the period prior to that since it would plainly involve speculation. I think I can sympathize with that. But, your point about touring remains well taken. Thanks for your post. @bdp24 Thanks for your post. Very interesting anecdotes! |
'three easy payments' offered... and Elvis didn't place an emphasis on looks and theatrics and sexuality instead of quality music? Did he not rip off black people's music for the most part and monetize their craft at a level they could never have dreamed of? I think we are being a bit too simplistic here. It's never been easy separating form from function. Things are no different today than they ever have been. You think it's ever been easy making money from music????The poster has no problem regurgitating a half-baked 1980's music rag notion that cannot be supported by fact surrounding Elvis Presley and this ridiculous buzz word, 'culture theft'. Elvis Presley was the conduit and crossroads of American music before an industry grew large enough to manufacture such a thing. Because he also happened to be genetically 'beautiful', half-wits throughout the years tended to discount his mind boggling talents and allure, which are still, arguably, unmatched. If what the best selling artist of all time did was able to be replicated as a formula, or for that matter, equaled, it would have been done over sixty years ago. He had no equals, black or white and could only be eclipsed by The Beatles, a worthy and equally unmatchable phenomenon. To mention very few off the top of my head- Robert Plant, Jackie Wilson, Springsteen, James Brown and Lennon himself would agree, so if self-hating post 1970's white kids with lowered testosterone levels, no war to protest, a dismal array of genuine generational rock & roll heroes and their little word processors, think so, they're in shallow waters. There was no equal. Not in his time or since. |
I’ll agree with that sentiment. The author of the article put it this way: "Yes, there have been a handful of futurists – H.G Wells, Aldous Huxley, and given the state of many current governments I would grudgingly include Ayn Rand. Probably the most successful futurists in our lifetime may have been Marshall McLuhan and Stanley Kubrick, but even so, all of these writers and film makers have been only partially successful gazing into the crystal ball. Given that the past is no more fixed than the future I begin this conversation with you." It’s that last sentence that to me is the operative one here. You could envision it coming to include all kinds of attempts that people often make to ’rewrite’ historical events...including this kind. While it seems the author only meant to be washing his hands of it, he also seems to be acknowledging that such attempts can be expected. |
@jburidan, imo the one exception to your otherwise fine contention is that of Paul Simon’s Graceland album. Not because he merely pasted his voice onto the music of the South African musicians he recorded and called it his (though that is a valid criticism), but because the "songs" he wrote for that album suck! |
...if I could find a white boy who could sing like a black man I'd make a million dollars. That's what Sam Phillips said. He was the man who created Sun Records and first recorded Elvis. So yeah, your statement that cultural appropriation is ridiculous is ridiculous. Or could it be that you think Pat Boone's versions are better than the originals. |
Ivan - a good read, thanks. Perhaps a bit rosy, but I've been on the periphery of the industry for a long time, stretching back to the late '40's when my father distributed Magnacorder's to recording studios and radio stations (and Les Paul). He had his own small studio recording both to tape and direct to disk. In the late '60's - mid '70's after studying and practicing the art for several years, I set up a part-time semi-pro recording enture to do live recordings for groups (acoustic pop, chamber, jazz). The rapidly shifting landscape was such that I abandoned the idea of going full time into this endeavor, instead returning to my full time job as a marketing/business executive. While this turned out well, I have always felt the need for music to be an important part of my life. My best friends were classical musicians, and my youngest son led several garage bands during the '90's. I still talk to musicians when I attend their concerts. |
@onhwy61, one of the benefits of the decline (imo) of Rock ’n’ Roll music in the early-mid 70’s was that it drove many of my contemporaries and I to follow the bread crumbs of the music’s history back to it’s origins. I heard for the first time Barrett Strong’s version of "Money", which is much "tougher" than The Beatles (with a truly wicked guitar tone)---just one example. In 1973 I joined a band that played Jump Blues (a mix of urban Blues and Swing), so I got exposed to Big Joe Turner, Joe Houston, Big Jay McNeeley, Louis Jordan, Ruth Brown, Wynonie Harris, Joe Liggins, Tiny Bradshaw, Jackie Brenston (his "Rocket 88", produced by Ike Turner at Sun Studios, is considered by some as the first Rock ’n’ Roll record), and all the rest of the post-war black artists that Elvis, Jerry Lee Lewis, Johnny Cssh, Roy Orbison, Buddy Holly, and all the other Rockabillies were listening to on the "Race" music stations. At the same time, we traced the other main ingredient of R & R---Hillbilly, back to first Hank Williams, Lefty Frizzell (The Band does his "Long Black Veil" on Music from Big Pink), Ernest Tubb, Hank Thompson, etc., on back to the Western Swing of Bob Wills and Moon Mullican, and finally to The Carter Family, The Delmore Brothers, The Louvin Brothers, Merle Travis (a fantastic guitarist!), The Maddox Brothers and Rose (their sister), and other lesser knowns. This is the music the southern whites were hearing on The Grand Old Opry and other radio shows. When Dylan brought The Hawks up to Woodstock in 1966, he gave them a crash course in the pre-Rock ’n’ Roll music of the 20th century, all the stuff listed above and more. They were good students ;-) . We did the same for ourselves, and having heard the sources, it was easy to understand how Rockabilly got invented in that little studio in Memphis. The reason I don’t consider it outright theft of black music (instead of appropriation) is that the Rockabillies added their Hillbilly influences to the Jump Blues, creating a hybrid music---Rockabilly. |
I am an older guy. I don't stream. I am used to paying for music. I worry about how the dwindling income of artists may affect the availability of good music. I was a big fan of CD Baby as a means of exposing me to good artists. By, the way, I haven't heard from them in quite a while. I wonder what that means. One of the musicians I found there is Terra Naomi. I downloaded a few of her freebies and then bought her CD "To Know I'm OK". It took months to arrive because the kid is always on the road and is mailing the CD's out from her home. That must be tough. Now she is distributing her music through Patreon. I bought her CD because I liked the free samples and felt a responsibility to support her. Another great artist I discovered on CD Baby is Chris Robley. I feel it's kind of necessary to plug them because I don't want them to throw in the towel. Another of my favorites is Eileen Rose. https://www.eileenrose.com/music VERY highly recommended!! I have ALL her CDs and wish she could afford to release something on Vinyl. She has to support herself and her band by being the house band at Robert's Western World (where she can't even play her best compositions) 3 days a week. I'll never get to see her live unless I go to Nashville. Unless it's already too late. There's nothing new on her website since November. So for some of my favorite artists, It's not which format is best. It's which format can I get. And I need to support them or I may not be able to get anything. |
@orpheus10 : Ivan, I'm just thankful that you are one of the few around here that's looking at anything outside of our little "ballywick". I'm getting kind of sick of hearing this. You have no idea who we are or what our collective life experience is. Which makes your assumption an arrogant and totally unsupportable stereotype. The irony is that you are accusing an entire group of people of being sheltered and ignorant while doing so from a position of sheltered ignorance. |
@2channel8, you say: "I worry about how the dwindling income of artists may affect the availability of good music." I don't think anyone, including the author of the article in question has established in any way whatsoever that the income of artists is dwindling. I'm not even sure there is a way to measure that. That's why I reacted negatively to the article to begin with....the whole premise is flawed. He starts with an assumption that he doesn't even try to prove and then spends the rest of the article telling us why it happened. The huge irony is that this article comes as more and more people are discovering more and more new artists that they'd never heard of and NEVER WOULD HAVE without digital streaming. |
n80, it isn't necessary to know anything, only believe what you see around you; stores closing, malls closed a long time ago; things have changes more in the last 20 years than they have in the last 120 years; for the worst. The question was, "Why aren't artists no longer making a living"? you could ask that same question about millions of other people all over this country. |