Amp Upgrade Path?

Best is:

Mono blocks, Stereo power amp and preamp, Integraded, in that order.

I'm back to thinking speakers and amps.

Pick your loudspeakers first then get enough power to drive them. What loudspeakers do you have now?

Totem Hawk.... I really enjoy them
what would you suggest to head into the mono block world?

For under 5K it's going to be tough. There are power amps with dual mono geometry, which is the same as a pair of blocks (not as sexy though). I just purchased PrimaLuna, did a bunch of searching and found a Dialogue HP with < 100hrs for $2400 and at UpScale they have some new old stock that still sell for their org retail. I got a PL Prologue Premier Pre-amp with full warranty for $2200. They are both dual mono build. So it can be done.

By the way the amps sound great about a 30% SQ improvement with my old Revel's over the old Rotel amps. 

what would you suggest to head into the mono block world?

I don't think that is where you should go at this point. There are many ways to go but I would start you with a pair of Triangle AUSTRALE EZ. Maybe do a little tube rolling on your Rogue integrated, you'll still need a sub to get the very bottom but you'll have a big step up from the Totems and a very nice sounding system. Work on getting your room and system sounding it's best and enjoy for quite a while before you'll need to change anything. 

Think Audio Research, Conrad Johnson, VAC, and Cary. These are in the order I would consider them.

There are layers of what constitutes great sound (balance, details, bass, micro-details, noice floor, rhythm and pace, etc.). Companies like those above have been at the forefront of understanding sound and building equipment to capture it for a very long time. It takes a long time to move from what you think of as great sound as a novice audiophile to really knowing… these companies have worked at achieving this for many decades.

For the last couple years I have owned top of the line reference components from Audio Research (see my system under user ID) although I have pursued the high end for 50 years, I continually discover how these components capture the essence of music naturally, proportionately at all levels, in ways that I did not understand before. I was too easily lured by details and slam… which actually lured me away from really musical enjoyment. Don’t get me wrong, my system reveals all the details of any system I have owned or heard, but it shows them off in a truly natural way… just like live acoustical music, not bringing the details out in front and artificially sticking them in your face.

There are many companies that give people what they think they want… up front details and slam… slap you in the fact. But the companies I listen above work at a higher level. Creating real musical experiences. I get it now. I saw well healed old guys buying ARC stuff when I was young an poor. They were wise. This stuff is amazing.

Truly great audiophile gear goes beyond just “wow, that sounds great”. They are like refined instruments allowing to learn and evolve and explore deeper meaning in the music you are listening to.

@russ69 thanks for your response and I completely agree
A friend has offered a sub and I think I need to hear the effects of this first as well as acoustically cleaning up this space. Thank you

and thanks @ghdprentice . I need to re-read your response and understand it better at a technical level before replying, none the less - thank you very much

@smaarch1 about two months ago there were similar conversations about your Rogue, your Totem Hawk's, and what you were looking for. Several members replied with good ideas, including our own.  I'd try this first.  What say you?

smaarch1 OP

01-13-2022 at 03:45pm 

So it appears I'm looking at subwoofers. A friend has a REL to loan me and I'll give it a try.

Even thought they're currently delayed a few weeks, I'd give serious consideration to the VTA M125 Monoblocks from Tubes4Hifi.com.  

http://www.tubes4hifi.com/M125.htm

@smaarch1 where are you located? Any dealers in your area that can loan you an amp? Have you considered the new Atmasphere class D monoblocks? Haven't heard them myself but from others hearing good things about them.

Having owned lots of tube kit, I can confidently say, the new LSA Voyager GaN 350 will keep a grin on your face for many yeas to come

Your speakers limit you to relatively high power tube amps that start to sound like ss amps....if you're thinking long term, you might start with speakers with 94 dB or higher sensitivity.  Tube amps especially sound best in the first watt.   I can drive my speakers as loud as anyone would want with a sophia Baby amp that weights 14 lbs and I would put up against most $10K amps.  In the tube world, keeping it simple can result in amazing sound.  You've gotten a lot of advice that is the standard route, often marked with cairns placed by dealers who want to sell you all of those components.  I can tell by your post that you're jumping on each trendy upgrade.  My advice is to stay away from trendy.  Primaluna is the hot topic now but it is just an above average Chinese amp.  Now Decware can back up it's demand with quality but your speakers limit you there.  Do your own research.  Transformers are one of the key elements of an awesome tube amp (sophia has great transformers, so I helped you some with your research).   Integrated isn't always bad and in fact, in tube amps integrated can be a very good thing.  many integrated tube amps have the simplest of preamps.  That's a recurring theme in my thoughts--simple = less manipulation of the signal = less degradation.  I think of a signal as coming from the DAC or TT as 100% and every tie a system touches it, it degrades it.  Your job is to design a system that degrades it the least.  Finally, research tubes before you commit.  SET vs push pull.  300b or some other tubes.  I'm using a 6c33c now but it gets pretty hot, but it has amazing detail.  You need to know what you're trying to accomplish before buying your next amp.

Jerry

@tweak1 so a guy asks for a tube amp suggestion and your suggest a 500 wpc class D amplifier--the opposite end of the spectrum?

Well that might go better with his inefficient speakers.  And I've heard there is a new class of Class D amps out there giving class A a run for their money, but I haven't heard any of them.  I guess this is one of them.  

So bottom line, especially since you say you've been down the tube path, I read your recommendation with interest. thanks.

Jerry

@carlsbad

I should have led with Ive owned quite few tube products, including an all tube system; Rogue M150s with both cryoed EL34s/6550s, Lector preamp with dif balanced outs, and Raysonic 168 dif balanced CD player (and a 228 that died right when the company disappeared), Accoustat 2+2s with upgraded servo amps, when Judd Barber (Joule Electra) was alive he sent me a small OTL stereo prototype to evaluate, NYAL 150 and 300, and several tube preamps whose names I have long ago forgotten

Having owned many class D amps; PS Audio GCC 250 (still in my TV rig), several W4S (stereo, mono, MC, Emerald Physics 100.2SEs, Audio Alchemy DPA 1, PS Audio M 700s, EVS 1200 which I raved about for over a year, until January of 2021 when my LSA Voyager 350 GaN amp arrived and stone cold blew away the EVS 1200. I have trouble including GaN in the same category as the non GaN class Ds as it is IMHO, on another level.

hth

   With your budget and speakers look at Quicksilver pre and their  KT monos. The pre will best your Rogue and their KT’s are now 100 watts. Rogue recommends rolling NOS Mullards in the small tubes. I much prefer Telefunkens and Siemens as they are considerably cleaner and more open. Your current KT 120’s are great for making power, however the new production Gold Lion KT 88 and KT 66’s are sweet. But for the long haul consider the Quicksilver gear or the new PL although it’s slightly over your budget. Happy Hunting, Mike B. 

Thanks everyone - food for thought