Affordable alternativ to the PS Audio DirectStream DAC

Maramtz ND8006 
Very good i own it 

@chayro I would buy a used one if I was living in the US, but used PS DS are very rare in Europe

Just recently got the PS DS Jr - under $2k. Awesome improvement over last DAC . Also PS still upgrading firmware like the Sr - overall very happy. NAS connected via Ethernet . Sonos via coax - using freeware tools to stream from NAS - but may consider Roon in future --- a bit pricey

Maybe you should reevaluate your budget?  Now that you've actually listened to the PS and loved it, you might think about how you could responsibly afford it.  Sometimes we have a pre-determined budget in our heads, which is a good thing, but sometimes we just have to decide whether or not to stretch because our pre-determined budget can't get you where you want to go musically.  Only you can make the decision.  

I am a newb to good Dacs but I have to agree with Audiotroy that the Ifi Pro iDSD  looks amazing for the price  https://ifi-audio.com/products/pro-idsd/    I know I will be saving for this for a while to use with my PC  Currently running Tidal thru USB to a Questyle QPR2  to my Focal Utopias ,but after hearing upscaled DSD on Audirvana Trial. Hardware that can Upscale to DSD1024 and direct stream Tidal among other features. Sounds very appealing.

Chord Qutest. With either a Moon Mind 2, or Auralic G1, Lumin Mini, or even a Bluesound Node2i depends on the budget..

I bought the Allo DigiOne Signature player and the Orchid. Also invested in a roon setup

Here is another review of the PA Lotus DAC5,   https://headphone.guru/the-pureaudio-labs-lotus-dac-5-from-underwood-hifi/

Not sure whether you want/need a built in streamer

Underwood HiFi is selling Auralec 

and... 

Pure Audio Lotus DAC5: I think I read that it has a 120/240 switch on the bottom (not sure about in home trial. Call Walter, he's usually amenable 
http://www.tonepublications.com/review/pure-audios-latest-dac/ 

OP, please share your impressions on how the Orchid compares when you have a solid feel for it.

@toolbox149 I am not sure. I don't think so.

But I have bought a Orchid dac and going to use that until the new PS Junior are released

Can you use/modify U.S. equipment to run in Denmark, or does the unit have to be designed for European electric systems?

Toolbox 

ahhh beautiful Denmark.. almost heaven...

Look at the new Musicbook Source. Around 3200 euros. Great analog pre amp /dac/streamer. Made in Germany so you shouldn’t have any trouble getting your hands on one 

Hi Martin-andersen: Danmark is not a 3th world country. You have very beautiful stuff ( I have the Gamut D 200i). Denmark is one of the leaders in Europe ( only ,it’s not that well known) Here in Belgium, you can find anything. Positive point :it’s cheeper than in Denmark. A reason to come to Belgium.  Regards !

Hi @lukaske95 Thanks for the tip.

I have just got "burned" on a pair of Tekton Design DI. Ordered them without trying them out at home. It was not possible not dealers in Denmark.

But I have promised myself that I only will buy product that I can audit in my home.

I know that it will give me a very limited range of product to choose from but I have to live with that.

I feel that I live in a 3' world country (: when I read about all the dac's that people have suggested in this thread and close to none of them are
available in Denmark or Europe.

Thanks

Dear Martin-Anderson,you can find the Teac in The Netherlands (Enschede :DP-audio at the price of:1699€ , the same on the web Hifi 79 studio:  1375€, (nl.) ‘ or Wifimedia Experience Center: 1390€ (nl.) In Belgium there are also available.

The DS dac and DMP transport...when used together,form such a musically coherent presentation with the latest firmware updates...it has to be heard to believed. I tend to believe that if one’s system is not up to the task of revealing all that this pair of music making machines have to offer...it will not be fully appreciated...period.

A few months ago a friend brought over his PS Audio DirectStream DAC and a Schitt Yggdrasil.   I run an old Peachtree DAC-iT, which I paid $500 for some years ago.  The follow-on model is now available from Peachtree for $250.  You can find my unit on EBay for about $125 these days.

There were a number of local audiophiles present and we came away with a variety of opinions, though there was one thing we all agreed upon.  The Schitt Yggdrasil was edgy and nothing any of us wanted to listen to, let alone worth its price tag in excess of $2000.

I liked the PS machine better than my Peachtree, as you might expect.  But the Peachtree actually sounded very, very good.   More than half of those present liked the Peachtree best of all!

The Peachtree just sounds good.  I thought there was a hair more detail and accuracy with the PS, but certainly not $4000+ worth.  I'd be willing to pay something like $800 for it, but nothing at all like the money that is asked.  I have NO complaints about my Peachtree. 

It only does up to 96/24, so if you have a need for 192/24, you'll want the newer Peachtree DAC iTx.  I have no interest in high rez streaming services and therefore do not have that requirement.

And as an FYI, here are the details of my system that we used to listen to these DACs.

VTA SP13 tube preamp
B&K AV1260 12 channel MOSFET power amp
Linkwitz Orion v3.3 loudspeaker system - active crossover calls for 4 amp channels per side, so 8 channels total needed.
Digital Source:   HP laptop running Ubuntu Linux, Banshee music player

The latest firmware for the DS dac (3.0.6) again takes the unit to the next level sonically. Even though it is an update to the PIC code...its just plain keeps getting better and better. Hearing is believing!!! 

I’ve heard quite a few DACs and ended up with the Aqua Formula xHD with my first choice being the TotalDac 12 (but out of my current budget). The La Voce has the same Aqua house sound, detailed, natural, effortless with a massive 3D sound stage (better than TotalDac btw in this regard). I’ve also heard the PSAudio Directstream with the latest FW in a friend’s system and while it’s full bodied and has quite good PRAT I didn’t care for the artificially lush sound which might have masked some of the detail. The friend’s DAC was a Soekris which was a bit more detailed and accurate (not lush, not too thin). Another DAC I recently heard at a local dealer / friend is the LessLoss DAC which I believe uses the Soekris RtoR boards, and is a very natural, detailed, overall quite beautiful sounding DAC - recommended. Another RtoR to investigate (mentioned above) would be TotalDAC. Similar to the Aqua sound in some ways (effortless, very natural timbre, great PRAT) but different in that the TDs are a bit more lush but not as airy/3D as the Aqua. Both are excellent.

Also, to whomever commented that "RtoRs are all sounding the same", simply not true. Is there a theme whereby there is an effortless and naturalness inherit in most designs, yes. Do they sound the same, no. Listen to TotalDAC, Aqua, Aries Cerat, Soekris, Lessloss, etc. and you’ll hear significant differences but all stellar DACs.
Final note - whatever your short list becomes I highly recommend demoing the DACs in your system. Only you can decide and your system will play a significant role in how the DAC integrates to your liking (or not). Happy Listening!

Denafrips received some bad reviews IIRC.

No, you are not recalling correctly, jburidan. Certainly not for the Terminator. Just search around for all the reviews, comparisons and awards. 
Sorry all, I couldn’t let this wrong recall sit there since it’s right at the top of the thread.
So back to the subject at hand... 

If you live in Denmark you could look for Soekris dacs. Some of them have very good reviews and are below $2000. I just checked and the Soekris 1541 is around $1300 (1150 EUR).

http://www.soekris.dk
[Edit: pricing info]

https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lis9e6fa-ps-audio-directstream-dac-da-converters

here is one on sale here on AG for $3900. i have one of these; it is the cornerstone of my system. with the frequent os upgrades it is like having a new component every year os so. i would buy another one if building a new system

What’s the model of the esoteric dac ?

I have the PS audio Direct Stream DAC for the money nothing comes close. And the software updates are free.

Do what the others have suggested when the new Jr comes out the price of the old one will bottom out.

Thay have just stopped production on the Direct Stream CD unit. I am waiting for the new one to be come out so I can buy the older model at a deep discount 

Also PS Audio has some of the best CS it’s world class.

I have owned several high end DACs - the Luxman DA-06, the PS Audio Direct Stream with Bridge II, and currently the Esoteric D-07. I have been using a bluesound as a streamer for several years and have found it much better than the bridge ii in terms of reliability - it just never stops playing. My bridge ii used to stop playing all the time with high resolution files. Yes, the DS is a very good sounding product, but frankly the Luxman was richer sounding (not what I expected to find at all given all the reviews of the DS) and the Esoteric kills them both in terms of sound quality AND build quality. The Esoteric is an older DAC which is available for about $1500 used and simply makes the PS Audio look like a child’s toy. So, for $2k (including a decent coax cable) you can get an amazing DAC. The Esoteric allows you to upsample into DSD, and I have found that makes it sound more analog, but you can also convert without upsampling or into 2x or 4x PCM which sounds a bit more detailed. Your choice - it just depends on the music. Anyway, just my two cents but it could save you about $2k over a new DS with bridge (they sell for $4k brand new - nobody pays retail for PS). 

PS Audio Perfectwave dac. 

martin, you are in luck.  The PS Audio is a FPGA design, and the Denafrips is a Resister Ladder.  These are expensive designs.  Buy a DAC based on a Delta Sigma Chip.  The go to chips at the moment are the ESS 9028 and the ESS 9038.  There are several of these that are excellent.  (I currently run two - one is the Wyred 4 Sound DAC 2v2, and I also use my Oppo 205 as a DAC.)
With the FPGA and Resister Ladder types the additional cost is not for additional quality, but additional work in implementation.  Most, if not all, of that cost goes into a different type of sound - that you may prefer, or you may not.  However with the 'DAC-on-a-Chip' you will get (1) a different sound, (2) a cheaper price.  So long as you do a modicum of research you will get a fabulously good DAC.

I am presently considering the Okto Research DAC8 (when it come out) and the Matrix Audio X-Sabre Pro.

I highly recommend the $1,500 Audio Mirror Tubadour III DAC.

I sold my Denafrips Terminator after hearing this DAC. BTW, I bought the Terminator after reading that people prefer it over the PSA DS DAC. And I am a big PSA fan and have some of their products including their big Power Plant P20.

A friend of mine also prefered the Audio Mirror DAC over a much more expensive Lampizator DAC and sold the Lampizator. It really is that good.

If you hear somebody complaining about the PSA DS dac, ask them what release of the firmware did they use. Most people like the improvement each release provides. I’ve updated the dac multiple times and each new release sounded better than the prior release.

Actually the starter Rockna Wavedream is $6k so that is not VERY expensive. 

Although they do have more expensive models in the SE series.

So expenisve is allways going to be a relative terms.

In our shop we have dacs from $1k to $35k so compared to a $1k dac a $6k Dac is expensive, compared to a $35k dac a $6k one is pretty cheap.


Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ

The Rockans are VERY expensive I was looking for something have the price of the PS Audio DirectStream

Let me toss in a suggestion for the exaSound e32 MkII. Granted, you'd have to piece it together with a streamer, but exaSound is offering a package with their DAC, their Sigma Streamer and a Teddy Pardo supply (highly recommended) for $3399. 30 day risk free trial. I've owned the DS DAC since it was in beta testing, and agree with the OP's thoughts on its sound. My friend has a similar system but wanted a less expensive DAC, He chose the e32 MkII with the Pardo supply (doesn't have the Sigma Streamer). My opinion is his digital is quite nice. I consider a great budget alternative to my DS.

Martin, we are not yet selling the Rockans one of our clients in a different state got one and was blown away with the sound quality this gentleman demoed a lot of dacs and came away with stateing that the Rockna was just exceptional in both its musicality and build quality.

Considering that you are in Europe and so is Rocknawe would agree with World Wide that you really should check out their products.

The main designer of Rockna is considered a digital engineering genius and we have been following Rockna’s progress for years.

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ

The Rockna new Wavelight dac looks like billion. very nice dac to look at

Hi,

If you're not in a huge rush, Rockna will be debuting their new Wavelight dac and Wavelight server at the Munich Audio show this week. The designer and owner for Rockna was also one of the previous designers for PS Audio, Goldmund and MSB. Rockna in our opinion, after A/B testing 74 different digital front ends, is a world class digital product. I am not sure of the pricing but I know it will be below the Rockna Edition dac which retails for $6000 per piece in the single ended version.

Just a side note we are the North American distributors for Rockna but it can now be purchased in several stores across Canada and the US.

Cheers,

I would love to try the Teac NT-505 DAC but it's not available in Denmark.

The DirectStream upsamples the input signal to high rate DSD and I suspect this is what makes it appealing to you.

I'd try the Teac NT-505 DAC/streamer which can upsample to DSD512 or the T+A DAC8 DSD connected to a PC with HQ Player for DSD upsampling.

Jab Audiogon is used by many people for some it is not price but gaining knowledge from others who have different exp.

Sometimes new products will outperform older used ones even sometimes way more expensive ones.

Based on this thread and the Op being in Europe and liking a very rich sound then Aqua or Border Patrol dacs plus a good streamer or a used PS audio Dac or other nos dac would be our recomendendation.

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ

I owned the DirectStream DAC, Border Patrol DAC SE, and Benchmark DAC3L at the same time, so was able to compare them. The latter two dacs cost much less and can be combined with a separate streaming source and still cost much less than the DirectStream with Bridge.

I sold the DirectStream DAC and kept the other two dacs. It was too laid back and it lacked the image dimension and weight of the other two dacs, at least in my system and to my ears. Detail was silky smooth and exceptional, though.

The Border Patrol dac is closest to sounding like my analog rig, but not as detailed. I like it because it fills in the space between the speakers, and all the way to the side walls. It does this quite nicely, which makes for a natural, realistic sound to my ears. It often invokes a "you are there" emotion in me. I’ve really loved having this dac.

The Benchmark has more "blackness" between the performers on the soundstage. It does not fill in the speakers like the Border Patrol does, but soundstage depth and width are excellent. It indeed has a first row presentation which takes getting used to. It often makes it seem like you are in the studio with the mastering engineer. But it has the knack of being non-fatiguing despite its forward sound. It is very clean and pure sounding, and it lets you hear deep into the performance.

I just got a Mojo Mystique v.3. It’s soundstage presentation is like the Border Patrol but with better detail and image specificity. That’s the one that is going to be my daily driver.

I’m going to have to sell one of my dacs, and it will probably be the Border Patrol. I like switching in the Benchmark for its different presentation, but the Mojo is what I have been liking for everyday listening.

@gosta Take a look at the new SimAudio Moon 390. Jeff Dougey from TONE sold his 380 to buy the 390. It is more expensive (around $5K) but based on what I have been reading online it seems like an excellent DAC | Streamer | Preamp | ROOD READY.

I will have a listen at a local shop soon. The sound of the 390 is supposed to be more of the lush category based on what I have been reading.

Martin,

We haven’t been shoving anything down your throat.

We mentioned the Lumin as it is an excellent product that many people are raving about and enjoying for both its sound quality and ease of use as well as its price point.

Ask a dozen audiophiles any question and you are going to get a lot of different results based on their experiences with their systems.

We as a dealer sell many, many brands of dacs and steamers and have tested our products with many different loudspeakers and amplifiers.

For the gentleman  with the Persona 5 they tend to be a bit forward so a dac that is very lush is a better choice, his choice of the Aurender was good for his system, also with the Lumin the DSD cross conversion feature makes digital much more rich, we don’t know if he tried this feature some people never play with it, however, we would have pointed him to an Aqua with an Innous which is way richer combo then the Aurender and would add additional warmth that the Personas need,so different systems and tastes require different components.

It is physically impossible for our words to be of any issue to you, we made a suggestion based on our experience with the Lumin vs many of the products which we sell, and have listened to.

If you read our posts we mentioned a whole host of other dacs from the IFI DSD Pro which is mind blowing for its price point, and we did also mention the Aqua Hifi Dacs plus a streamer as also sounding excellent.

In Europe the Aqua Hifi La Voice S3 shoud be less expensive than it is here and if you are indeed looking for a streaming combo then an Innous Mini might give you the more laid back liquid sound that you find with the PS audio piece and in terms of upgradability the Aqua stuff is completely modular an older S2 can be upgraded to an S3 which make the Aqua gear a very good long term investment in the ever changing world of digital and considering you are in Europe you may find that piece to be the best possible solution not to mention the Aqua gear has a very lush full bodied presentation similar to a DSD based dac like the PS.

If you wan to get more out of your post you should quantitfy exaclty what you are looking for:

1: Dac or Streamer
2: Price point
3: What the rest of your system is
4: Do you want a current product or an older perhaps discontinued model which might also work and in that case the older Aqua Hifi La Voice S2 might be right up your alley.
5: What you liked about the PS

(were there any areas that you would have wished that could be better in the comparison vs the Chord Dac you prefered the tonatlity of the PS, but did the Chord have any qualities that you liked over the PS.)

Based on the limited data we see your preference is towards a more rolled off and liquid digital sound, therefore a dac like the Benchmark, Sim Audio, or Chord or any dac that sounds neutral to a bit brighter would not float your boat.

Based on the above still don’t know any of the question 1-4 we would recommend:

1: Aqua Hifi La Voice
2: Ifi DSD pro cheap and amazing
3: Any R2R NOS dacs avalilable in Europe


Good luck on your search and give the Aqua a demo that shoud be right up your alley.

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ

My understanding is that PS Audio is moving towards their own streaming system and away from things like ROON. I maybe wrong but I think I read on the PS Audio forum that Bridge III is not going to be ROON Ready. That is a no go for me.

If I am wrong please clarify since I would hate to spread incorrect facts on the DS.

I don’t think they even make this anymore so probably not much help.  I prefer my Oppo Sonica with Modwright tube mods over my PS Audio DS DAC. It is however somewhat system dependent.

+1 @audiotroy

“the Benchmark does not sound like any of these dacs.”

Agreed. Benchmark is like sitting at Row 1 and PS Audio DSD is like Row 8 to 10.

I limited experience with Schiit but that might be a cheaper option in the direction the OP seeks...

I also agree with the OP description of the PS audio DSD DAC - no loss of detail but a more laid back presentation.

@gosta

Technically you are right. For around $2000 or less you get SOTA in measurement performance. The rest is taste or presentation. The PS Audio DS DAC Snr has a large following and rightly so. Measurements aren’t as good as some but the balance of sound is great. Same can be send for various tube amps - not as good technically - but sweet sounding and in some cases audibility is improved by added harmonics. I think the magic of the PS Audio DSD is the added effect of the transformer output...

I believe that tube harmonics help audibility of instruments which don’t have as much natural harmonics themselves. Hi-hat is a good example as it doesn’t naturally have a load of harmonics like other instruments. Many vocalists benefit from added richness of tubes. Guitars sound richer too but in electric guitar genre the tube effect is often already on the recording.

ok maybe I need some hair on my chest. But the post was not very helpfull