Added a Schiit Freya+ to a Sansui 8080

Try changing cables.  And maybe tubes.

The Freya is an amazing beast. You can go back-and-forth between solid-state And tubes.  

I would give it time and get used to how it sounds.  Change can be good.

And then if all else fails buy two puppies

Curious, why you added the Schiit Freya+ in the first place? What were you trying fix? 

Vintage gear can sound just as good as new gear, it has to be maintained, and used correctly. Do you know if your Sansui has ever been recaped, or checked out? Might need all the electrolytic caps replaced, some diodes are out of spec along with a few resistors. Might as well swap out some noisy transistors while you are in there. This can/will transform the sound in a good way, more dynamic range, better soundstage,  lower noise floor, better separation, end to end better. While still having the warm sound they are known for. 

Would not try to EQ in the Wiim, most of the time they just add noise with a side of distortion. It's a cheap device, would just use the standard output untouched. If you "need" an EQ get the Schiit one, add it in the proper place. 

Or as others have said, sell the Sansui, get the Schiit matching amp, it will sounds glorious. 

I believe what you’re hearing is the Sansui capacitor coupled designs they were known to be a warmer sounding amps than the later designs that went more neutral sounding and had more detail.   The AU999 was the first of the later designs for example.

@porchlight1 - Did I enjoy the EPI 100s?  I was thinking the same thing when I was answering this.  

I enjoyed them very much.  I had paired the EPIs with a Pioneer 3600 receiver and Dual 1229 TT.  The EPIs were my first good speakers that were sold as separates.

They did a good job with the music I listened to (rock, pop, country, vocals).

I ultimately only had them for about 8 years.  Separating from my ex looked like splitting up the stereo and I wound up with the Dual.  

My separation present to myself was a pair of KEF Q55s and Adcom separates.  I soured on the KEFs and was happy with EPOS 11s for a good while.  

I did go back to the New England sound with a pair of Acoustic Research 302s for about 10 years.  I am a big fan of Zu Audio Dirty Weekenders these days, as I feel the same level of excitement I felt with the older speakers I had.

Rich 

@steam_engine enjoy what sounds good to you.  It’s really easy to chase tweaks and changes in the pursuit of better and lose the magic of what got you excited in the first place.  If you like your vintage Sansui, enjoy it!  Measurements and specs will tell you even a really modest amp / receiver is light years beyond the 8080 but that in no way means it will sound better to you.  Digital measure “better” than spinning records yet look at how many Audiophiles prefer the later.  Also look at how big the “Vintage Audio” market has gotten, there is large group of folks that swear by the right vintage gear being better than new, more modern gear.  Find what you like and enjoy it, your ears are the only ones that matter.  If it were me, I’d keep both the Freya and 8080, grab an amp for the Freya and then you can compare the different set ups.  Rich gives some great advice and insight on vintage gear, in essence it was designed to make the different mediums available sound their best, FM Tuners, Tapes, Records.  They were far from perfect, units were designed to make the front end of the equation sound as good as it could.  If you pair new, high end gear from today with those sources from back in the day, likely would sound terrible, would highlight every weakness, all that’s missing or flawed.  Good luck!!  Enjoy!!

rar1:  Did you enjoy your EPI 100’s?  I held onto mine for 20 years through high school and college (hung onto Dynaco Stereo 70/ PAS3X Thorens TD121/Grace707) until I replaced them with Martin-Logan CLS’s in the 90’s.  Linear the EPI’s weren’t, with a big scoop in the midrange.  But I loved them for the way they could make Jan Gabarek’s acerbic tenor saxophone tone listenable.  I swear his reeds were made of metal..

Forge ahead! 👍

@ steam_engine

Might be a question of impedance matching between Freya+ and the 8080, variable with frequency?

Hi wolf_garcia -

I have been around hi-fi literally for almost seven decades; my dad sold and repaired the stuff for a living, so I can't remember a time when stereos were not part of my life.  I was testing tubes for my dad when I was 5.  My statement that stereos back then were 'tuned for analog' means just that, there was only analog.  So yes, LPs, tape, and radio were the only things on the menu at the time.  There were no CDs, SACDs, Blu Ray audio, streaming, or HD anything.  

I don't think that you, myself, and the original poster disagree here.  We have all recognized that today's stereos sound different, with the nod being given to today's stuff as sounding more accurate.  There is a YouTube video out there with Paul McGowan (PSA fame) saying just that and to him, it's not even close.  

To some, the vintage sound is worth chasing, but to me that is nostalgia talking.  I started out with Philco & Voice of Music equipment.  Graduated to SONY and there must be at least a dozen or more brands that have made their appearance since then.  I chased vintage 22XX Marantz receivers at one point, but outside of FM radio, they didn't quite do it for me.  

One of my buddies had Sansui equipment that sounded nice, better than my SONY.  Another buddy moved up from a KLH compact to a McIntosh/ Bose 901 combo (his dad had a cash business), but truth be known, I liked the KLH better.  

And so it goes.  No reason to shade stereos from 40 and 50 years ago.  How and what I listen for has changed dramatically.  I think you would agree.

Rich 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iApp9vIQihs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbIWGo2zCfY

Sansui amps are not in the same league as modern well designed stuff...I didn't like them much even back in the day, and saying they're "tuned for analog" begs the question, "as opposed to what?" before there was anything else. Tuned to limited range FM, cassette tapes, and mediocre turntables? I use an original series Freya with well designed modern amps and it sounds astonishingly good...NOS GE tubes are my preferred bottles and the early Freya like mine allows instant switching between modes for reference. Also, my early 70s KLH compact system sounded better than any Sansui I encountered.

Probably lower distortion. SS Freya measures well from what I have seen. Is this the Freya with the tube mode? I’d expect that to sound different than SS or passive.

I have a Freya (no tubes) I’ll be hooking up for first time this weekend. Expecting good things!

Freya with vintage amp will work fine. All depends on personal preference for sound. Personally, I would avoid most vintage gear. Technology has come a long way and best products at all price points which includes Freya reflect that. From a pure technical execution perspective, vintage gear is more likely to be the bottleneck to ultimate performance. Thing is ultimate performance is not the same thing as what people like. People like whatever for whatever reason and that’s perfectly fine. Different strokes…. I remember that vintage Sansui sound quite well.  Very nice!

Thank you for the thoughtful response.  All makes perfect sense.

Now I feel like I'm at a crossroads.  Continue down the path of separates or fall back to the Sansui (which I actually realize I really liked) and return the Freya 

Or fall back to the Sansui and keep the Freya to build around.   (ie another system)

Where does the madness end?  :P

Rich is correct in his assessment. Placing a current day preamp in front of a vintage integrated is problematic. I would point out that the Freya+ has a signal to noise ratio of around 100 db (very good for a preamp), while the Sansui is around 80 db (meh). The higher SNR, the better. Basically, the Sansui has more background noise which may lend itself to a "warm" sound, but in general, it means that there is more distortion present that results in said described, "warmth". Hence the Freya+ created a cleaner sound that when pushed through the Sansui, you lose "warmth", largely due to the fact that the preamp section in the Sansui was inferior and lent itself towards the Sansui analog sound of it's day, as Rich pointed out. And, as with all older gear, the Sansui may or may not have been re-capped- or it may have been re-capped with parts that were slightly different than what was original- which would lend itself to a different sound. 

If you listen with the Freya in passive mode, you will be hearing the amplifier section of the Sansui. That should give you all the information you need on what kind of sound it is contributing. "Muddied" would likely be your adjective when you do that. 

I have the Wharfedale Linton's paired with a Rogue RP-1 and an NAD C298. Before I purchased the NAD C298, I used an NAD 275BEE. As for SNR, the difference in those two amps are some 20db's apart. That is distinctly audible. The C298 sounds cleaner, more articulate, and less muddied. I remember comparing the two amps and realized that the 275 provided a better soundstage (a bit more present and wider) but that was because of the distortion. When listening over long periods of time, that soundstage became an aggravation to my ears and it was a relief to pair the RP-1 back up with the 298. 

I would suggest finding a stand alone amp with an SNR of 90db or higher to match with your Freya+. You have simply done what everyone else has done, you have upgraded one piece of equipment, which opens itself up to another piece of equipment being the villain. Move on, don't try to make the Sansui better, it is as good as it's going to get stand alone. 

You have entered the world of separates. Use equipment that matches well with one another and use quality cabling to connect them together. Your starting point is now your preamp (a good one!), and your streamer and speakers are fine. I love my Linton's, feed them better electronics and they will respond in spades.

Thanks Rich.  That's sort of the conclusion I have come to in this short period of time - i'm defeating the Sansui's charm.

I had a good thing going and I got greedy  (or let's say curious, rather) :)

The Sansui has a 0.2% TDH while the Schiit Freya+ runs much more clean at <0.01%

Is it safe to say that less TDH main contributing factor to what I am observing when I say I've lost warmth?

These discussions would fill up the pages of Stereo Review and High Fidelity magazines some 35/ 40 years ago.  The general consensus was that you most likely couldn't hear any real differences until you got to the 1% TDH level.  Viewed comparatively, portable players (tape, CD) were usually at the 10% TDH level and that was fairly audible.   

Vintage equipment sounded warmer in comparison to today's components.  Vintage components were just designed and built differently.  Also, vintage components were tuned for analog ... vinyl and tape and FM radio.  No digital in the mix.   Warmth was desired.  There were tone controls to modify the sound a bit if desired.  Then again, I remember the user guide for EPI 100 speakers that suggested listening without tone controls, so the user could hear the advantage of EPI's linear sound.  

The only current speakers that I have heard that sound close to vintage era speakers are the Wharfedale Dentons.  

Your Sansui 8080 was designed to operate as a unit.  I believe you will defeat its charms, by changing that around.  

Rich