Acoustic Zen Adagio, How Good Are They?

how do these speakers compare with the Proac D25 which is similar in price range ?

I believe the cabinents are sourced from China. The reason I say this is because my dealer and I were talking about the "new" Adagio model and he called AZ to inquire when they would be ready. AZ informed him that they had a container in port waiting to clear customs. By the way, the new models have a slanted baffle to reorient the mid-range drivers (ala JMLAB Mini Utopia) to "focus" the sound toward the tweeter. Additionally, they now produce a monitor version of the Adagio with the same driver layout, about half as high with the transmission line exiting the rear of the speaker. New colors includiing a metallic/graphite.

As far as their provenence, I would say that they are designed and assembled in the US with parts sourced from overseas. Cool! Keep up the great work Robert Lee!

Yagbol2, I didn't think it would come across like that. If it was offensive to you, for that I appologize.

My ICs and speaker cables are all Acoustic Zen and Robert Lee is one of the best cable designers today and I have not heard better cables than AZ in the price range. When someone wants a cable recommendation, AZ is the first brand of cables I recommend.

What I was trying to say, and I probably had to be more clear about it, is that if the Adagio speakers are indeed made in China, it should not be a hidden fact, don't you agree? I have no problems with where equipment is made, as long as it is high quality and sounds good. I just think if it says made in USA it can not be made in China or anywhere else for that matter.
And to let you know, I just listened to Cayin, VAS and Aurum Cantus Volla speakers and thought all of these components sounded awesome. I especially liked the Cayin integrated. If I am not mistaking, all of these are made in China.
I have no problems with where equipment is made, as long as it is high quality and sounds good.

No. The mid/bass drivers are custom made (not in China) and the tweeter is custom assembled by hand in CA by Robert Lee himself. Every speaker is assembled and tested in CA. Robert Lee actually listens to each individual pair in a system before they ship.
How many speaker companies will actually audition each pair or <$5k speaker, by the owner even, before headed to their new home!! These are not an assembly line product.

The Acoustic Zen Adagios are made in San Diego. I have been to the factory and seen the assembly and test operation.

Audphile1,
I am Chinese. I use all Antique Sound Labs gears and proud of my heritage. Just to let you know!

Yagbol2, you may have just opened a whole new can of warms with a comment like that.....

Are the Acoustic Zen Adagios made in China? Heard they are. Any more info?

I just wrote about my impression on them, together with some high-res pictures, pls check it out at

http://www.echoloft.com/cgi-bin/YaBB/YaBB.cgi?board=tell&action=display&num=1159082755&start=0

Enjoy the music!

2100
Echoloft, Singapore

Well My Adagios are in place and even the wife is happy with the Mappa Burr finish, not the base drivers mind you, they are too black(give me strength). They are more than I expected, out of the box they are clean dynamic, excellent soundstage. I can't hear a crossover notch or the slightest colouration. Fast speakers are often tonally deficient in my experience, theses are not, instruments are clearly different. I was expecting a long burn in, if they sound this good out of the box, I can't weight for when they are burned in. An unequivical recommendation then
I repeat the earlier offer, anyone in the UK near Oxfordshire wants a listen let me know. They are on dem at the Park inn Heathrow show this weekend I believe, I'm hoping tomorrow.

How is Adagio compared with Hyperion 938 or VR 4jr? Are these 3 speakers in the same league?

In a few month the price on the speakers are going up, but by then there will be others out and awaiting evaluation. My wife said no so the question right now is moot.

You're welcome Tbg. I think you should wait a few more months, when the price go even lower. Right now, they sell for around $2800.

I wasn't all that impressed with the VR4 Sr. when it was only 8K

Interestingly, I heard this speaker at a dealer in SF. A friend was considering them as a possible replacement for his VR4Jr's. Frankly, they sounded like...well...BAD. There's no other word for it. I was really surprised. We all were, especially considering how much we like the Jr's.

So, I made the suggestion that they pull the speakers to the other side of the room, because the system into which they were first placed was considerably lower in price/quality than that of my friend's at home. They moved them across the room into the better system, and lo and behold, the speakers sounded much, much better. The dealer then said, "Well, you know, that other side of the room is the worst of the three we use in the room. For some reason, it always sounds boomy and resonant." He wasn't kidding. Had that been the whole of the audition, my friend would have walked away utterly disappointed.

Although not 100% sold--but close enough--my friend bought the Sr's that day. Guess what happened when he had a week or two to play around with them at home? They were phenomenal. Everything he liked about the Jr's, but fuller, deeper, richer, you name it. I too left the dealer like my friend did, crossing his fingers that they would be an improvement over the Jr's. When I heard the Sr's in his system, I knew he'd made the right move.

Bottom line is, without the chance to tweak a bit, thereby comparing the component to ITSELF, you can never be sure if you're hearing it at its best.

>Just because a speaker cost twice as much doesn't always translate into twice the sound.<

My point exactly. I wasn't all that impressed with the VR4 Sr. when it was only 8K, and unless it is VERY improved in it's new iteration, I think it offers poor value for the $$ at 12K. So I wouldn't be surprised if the Adagio was better.

Oz

Oz

I didn't go to the showroom to listen to the AZ Adagio Ozzy62. The AZ's were in a hallway with the VR4 Sr's therefore I planned an audition at a later date comparing the 2. Just because a speaker cost twice as much doesn't always translate into twice the sound. It would be "sheepish" to think so. I've read the reviews and seen them in person. I'll post a followup DRseid after the audition.

And yes I'm gonna give the smaller Analysis planars another listen!

Thanks for pointing this out, Royy. I am going after a pair.

Just because someone sells a speaker doesn't mean it's not any good. Using your reasoning would indicate that all speakers for sale on Audiogon involve some sort of hype. There are many reasons for selling a speaker.

This speaker just came out. If it's that good, how come there are too many for sale here in Audiogon already? Is this another hype?

>but dealer moved me to a room with some Analysis planars<

Are you a sheep to be herded against your will? If you went to hear a particular speaker, why didn't you hear it?

>I plan on an audition of these speakers paired against the VR4 Sr's which the dealer told me would out class the Zens.<

Ok, you are talking $12K against $4.3K. It should be a given. I haven't heard the Adagios but I have heard the Sr.s. You might be surprised at the outcome.

Oz

Has anyone heard both AZ Adagio and Hyperion 938?
How do they compare?

It will be interesting to hear your experience Dsalvo55 when you hear the Adagios versus the SRs side by side... I did that when I auditioned the Adagios, and they easily were my choice of the two (on Cary solid state gear at least). For some reason the SRs have never clicked with me, and that is strange as I love VS speakers in general. Go figure...

---Dave

I would have liked to audition these speakers but dealer moved me to a room with some Analysis planars which sounded awesome but not quite right with the equipment he had them paired with. I was interested in the VR4 Sr's which also weren't setup sitting in a hallway with the Acoustic Zens. I'll tell you something, these speakers looked very impressive. I plan on an audition of these speakers paired against the VR4 Sr's which the dealer told me would out class the Zens. The comments I've read here have me even more intrigued.

Well I have just finished the audition and I have ordered a pair of the Adagios. I was slightly concerned whether the amplifier power I had available would be enough, moving from 94db Living Voice Avatars, to 89 db. I use a 50 watt SS and 22watt SET. I used my Lavardin and a cheap but good Chinese amp with 18watts in triode which the dealer had and the speakers coped well. The Lavardin volume went from my customary 9 o'clock to 12. playing much louder than I usually listen at. I through Wagner and Mahler at it and the speakers coped excellently. As others have said, good transparency and dynamics, but not at the cost of losing full development of the instruments tonal range. Imaging was good, the soundstage not wide, but it was a very cramped room, about 14 by 14 feet. What more can you ask for, well deeper base I suppose, but tight control of the base that is there is was very evident. A demo drum track was excellent, every drum had its own character, clearly differentiated. Oh and it looks more gorgeous than the photos.
So I should be getting the 10th pair to arrive in the UK in a few weeks. Anyone over here wants a listen and is near Oxfordshire, let me know.

The speakers will do wonders with classical music, they are very dyamic with a big soundstage and great bass.

If you are in the area come on down for a private demonstration of these wonderful speakers.

Does anyone have any opinions on how the Adagios would do with large scale classical music based on actual listening experiences? I have not heard these yet but plan to. I have had my Magnaplanars 15 years. While they are great speakers I never got the feeling that I was at the symphony. Of course part of the problem is that the I really need large SS amplifiers and I use an Audio Research VT100. My room is 11' X 18'.

Thanks for any feedback.

Tvad, I only heard this combo at the Rocky Mountain Audio Fest. I kept going back because the sound was so good. One time I went back and found it had lost its magic. The amps had been changed.

I hope to hear the Red Dragons soon in my system.

I have not heard them with the Red Dragons. The amplification I tested with was Cary and McIntosh. The Cary sounded great, the Mac had a death grip on bass control so it stayed.

As to the Kef reference, I mean no offense but I believe the Adagios sound much better as I have not heard any Kefs I could stand for more than 5 minutes. Now I have hardly heard the full lineup but their top line with the Uni-q did not move me. Maybe their older stuff sounded great but, to my ears, today's Kef sounds upper-mid-fi.

Ghasley, have you heard them with the Red Dragons?

I have not heard these yet, but, don't they look like Kef 104.2's which are still GREAT speakers!!!! I dunno, these look sorta like clones. As for sound, I cannot really comment and would hope they have everything the Kefs have, with additional bass. I still may buy em and try em, I know I was not to impressed with the ZU.

Chip Stern just posted his review of the Adagios on 6moons and they received a Blue Moon award. I know these awards are subjective as heck but every "award winner" on that site that I have experienced is spot on. I like the Zu line of speakers and will always have a pair on hand because they represent the absolute best value for extreme high efficiency but the Adagios are just SOOOO much more refined. I understand that Acoustic Zen is set to introduce a matching stand mount monitor voiced similarly to the Adagios for use in home theater. I do not have a home theater setup, just 2 channel setups.

My primary system for the record, I run Adagios (replaced B&W 802d) with a McIntosh MA2275 (replaced BAT VK 300XSE) and a Cary 306SACD (replaced Cary 306-200), AZ Silver Reference II IC's (replaced Redge Street Poeima !!) and AZ Hologram II speaker cables (replaced Synergistic Res Ref), Furutech Evolution power cables (replaced Synergistic Ref A/C master couplers) and a Running Springs Audio Duke power conditioner (replaced Richard Gray).

This setup is so coherent, dynamic, uncolored, natural and clean. Detail without overanalysis....I am back to listening to music instead of equipment....and you all know what I mean. The Acoustic Zen Adagio loudspeakers are tube friendly without excluding quality solid state. You do not need a ton of power as the meters on my McIntosh MA2275 (75 wpc KT88 tube integrated) never hit 7.5 watts except on dynamic peaks (I run off the 8 ohm taps) listening at a moderately high level (too loud to converse with someone in the room, not so loud that the walls shake).

Audition these speakers and decide for yourself. I was skeptical until I tried them in my home as there is very little info on them, and zilch on the Acoustic Zen website. I have heard that the next version of the Adagio will not have as extravagant a finish as the maple burl finish on mine. My wife flipped out positively when I moved out the B&W 802ds and replaced them with the Adagios. She is not an audiophile but she preferred the Adagios to the 802ds once they were set up and she has no clue about the price difference (she stated she could hear things on the Adagios that "sounded more right" to her than from the 802d and the Adagio bass is real sounding to her and not so "fake"...her words, not mine B&W disciples...she also likes my Zus although they are not comparable to the B&Ws in her opinion, just different). I have heard that Acoustic Zen did not want to generate more demand for the speakers than they could supply, thus the website exclusion. Seems plausible and when you hear them, you will likely agree if not purchase on the spot.

Peace.

I guess it is time to go and check these speakers out for myself.

I've had the A.Z. Adagio's for 3 months now and JUST LOVE THEM!!! I drive them with a Canary Audio CA301mk.2 tube amp. 22 watts per side, 300B, Class A, Triode, Push Pull. Preamps are a severely modified E.A.R 864 tube unit and a stock GaMut C-2R S/S unit. My room is 35'3"L x 17'3"W x 8'H. My system/speakers is close to one of the short walls. I can play Rock or Classical at VERY LOUD LEVELS WITH NO PROBLEM!!!!! They sound great! They replaced Von Sch. VR4Gen3HSE and I'm not looking back!!!

I felt compelled to write this post, potentially my last. Why, because these speakers are so good IMHO, that I am finally and offically off of the hi merry go round. These are most musically satifing speakers I have ever heard, are they perfect no, are they a TREMENDOUS value for the money YES!! These speakers are fast, musical, have good bass and the most wonderful highs I have ever heard. All these years I thought I had to live with a certain amount of grain in the music, but no more. I have always blamed it on my ic's or some other component up stream... not so. I could make a very long list of other speakers I have owned and heard, but as we all know its personal preference when choosing speakers, so I don't see the need. My advice is you should listen to these speakers before buying anything, if you don't you are doing yourself a huge diservice. My system if a Cary Sli-80 F1 and a Cary 303/300 cdp with Oritex ic's.
Regards,
Mike

For those of you asking me questions about the power requirements of the Adagios, let me first apologize for not posting a reply sooner. I spend very little time on the forums and in fact only realized there where questions pending because Bill at Response Audio let me know.

I have run the Adagios using the Grommes PH-26 integrated amp. It uses EL-84's and runs at 1.8 watts triode/6 watts tetrode. The Adagio's work at 1.8 and 6 watts, if you have a really small room and don't want to go very loud you'll be fine, especially at 6 watts. Just don't go into high levels with material that has wide swings in ranges such as symphonies or if your going too, keep the normal listening volume at a lower range. If you don't the amp will clip.
In my 16' L x 14' W x 8' H room the 6 watt setting plays at reasonable levels as well but with deep bass or again, major swings you may notice some issues with clipping if you push the volume limit.
My guess is that if you can control your levels and live with a volume that a spouse can still talk to you when your listening in a smaller room, and 8 watt SET amp would be fine. If you want to have more headroom to work with I think 15-20 watts would be a better starting point. The transformers on a tube amp will also play a role in what your SET can deliver in your environment.
I currently demo them in two configurations, 1)with a pair of Grommes 360's using KT-66's which output around 35-40 outstanding watts and 2) with the Red Dragon Audio Leviathans at 500 watts. I pair them with either the H-Cat preamp or the Heron VTSP-2.
FWIW and if you want to follow up with me on this off-line as I won't talk about the following on-line in a forum, I am one of the few dealers that have dealt with the Daedalus and SP Tech speakers. I've also had the chance to hear the Sason's so if you have questions feel free to follow up with a email or you can call me on our business number (www.jamnaudio.com for info).
I'll try to make it a point to check out the forum a little more often in case any of you have more questions for me.

Joe

The bass limitation I heard was not due to the room or ancillary equipment , it is by design: The 116 is spec'd to 32hz (no tolerance cited). This is certainly extended bass, but not subterranean. What's there is very good indeed, but for full range reproduction, MBL wants $40K+ for their model 101. In between, the MBL 111 splits the difference at app $30K.

By way of comparison, I'm also looking at the Vandy Quatro which offers full range bass at $7500 to $10K (Quatro Wood). The difference in bass impact was clearly evident on a couple of the tracks I've been using for demo purposes.

Despite all of the above, and the fact that the Acoustic Zen Adagio seemed awfully close in performance, I completely understand why a price insensitive buyer would choose the MBL. It is a very seductive product (visually and aurally) and if your choice of material doesn't contain truly deep bass, you may find that the 116 is perfect for you.

I liked it a lot, but, given its limitations and my reluctance to pony up for the 111 or 101, I'll probably go a different way.

For those in the Upstate NY area, you are more than welcome to come into Response Audio as well to audition the Adagio speakers.

I will not post my thoughts on these speakers. Being a dealer for them, I realize most will consider my opinion to be biased. I think those that have the chance to audition them personally, will be able to justify the reviews as well as other's comments within this thread.

My Adagios are currently being powered by tube amp ranging from 20 watts up. Soon enough I will have the Manley Labs MAHI mono blocs and Shrimp preamp running the,

I brought in the Adagio based on Jjurzec's comments as he is my Midwest affiliate and I trust his ears 100%. I can only say that I agree with everything he said.

Bill

Maybe the accompanying equipment is lean sounding?

At $22K the MBL's should be a "work of art" and do everything well too! That's a very expensive speaker. The fact that you say the MBL's don't do subteranean bass is crazy to me. A speaker at that pricepoint should not lack thunderous low end.

Yesterday, I A/B'd Adagios vs. MBL 116s.

The A/B wasn't for comparative reasons - I'm looking for two pairs of speakers pursuant to a re-organization of my stuff (Don't ask).

Anyway, these speakers have a very similar sound; very dynamic with neutral octave to octave balance (though neither does subterranean bass) and impressive imaging/staging. Both sounded terrific, although, to my ear, there is a certain "presence" or "body" to the MBL that the Adagios don't quite capture. OTOH, I could certainly understand anyone who preferred the Adagio or felt that the comparison was essentially a toss up.

At $22K in rosewood, the MBLs cost 5X as much as the Adagios. On the basis of performance, I imagine it would be hard for most people to justify the price delta relative to the marginal advantage offered by the MBL (for those who ajudge the difference an MBL advantage).

OTO OH, the MBL is a pretty striking looking product. While the Adagio features beautiful cabinetry coupled with an akward grill, I thought the MBL is, visually, a work of art.

For those asking about being able to drive the Adagios with tubes, we (F2Audio) have now run them with the Cary SLI-80 (in triode 40 watt mode), the Cary 805 Anniversary (50 watts), and the Vincent SP-T100 hybrid amps (100 watts). None of the amps had any problem driving the speakers. Unfortunately, we do not have any lower-watt amps. The main thing to note is that the speakers sounded varied (while still maintaining its overall open and clear sound)with each amp, preamp, and associated tubes. To me, that is the sign of a good speaker...it passes along the signal that it gets.

Aggielaw, I first heard the Adagios at RMAF driven by the Red Dragons. I went back repeatedly while making only one visit to the Zu room. I had not heard of the RSA Sasons but was going on with your evaluation until you talked about the MacIntosh multi-driver speakers as being better than the Sasons. Wow! I went into the MacIntosh room at CES having learned of them from a dealer in Arizona. I could not leave fast enough! They were loud but just awfully muddy and confused. I suspect the multiple drivers

Your standard for just settling back and toe tapping with the Adagios is my ultimate standard. I should also say that given the comments I am hearing about the Red Dragon mono blocks, they may have been contributing to the sound I heard from the Adagios.

I bought a pair of these speakers for my son and they are awesome. Right out of the box they are great. I picked them up yesterday and after a full night of listening I just can't believe how good they are. I am only waiting for them to get better as they break in. I will only have them at my house for about a week because they will go to my sons house on Saturday. The imaging is incrediable and the sound stage is as well. My two small complaints is there low end the fact that they are a little small for my big room. I will report more as they break in.

I just came from an extended audition with them in a well-insulated medium sized room and they are definitely the real deal.

On the first CD soundtrack, things started off mixed (although generally excellent) with most of the "O" Cirque du Soleil soundtrack auditioned sounding quite nice, but cymbals sounding harsh to my ears. Detail was definitely a strength though.

Things improved immediately on the next CD with female vocals featured (on a jazz soundtrack). Erin Bode sounded absolutely fabulous on the Adagios! The speakers also handled the low bass strums of the double bass instrument in the CD wonderfully. Detail was exceptional, and the speakers exhibited a nice cohesiveness that is rarely seen anywhere near their price point. The harshness noted with cymbals on CD 1 was not present at all (so it could be the recording).

Male vocals also impressed on the Mark Knopfler CD played next. Definitely among the best I have heard in their class, if not the best.

Finally, we closed out with a track off of the latest Allison Kraus CD "Lonely Runs Both Ways," and her voice sounded just as I would have hoped it to. We played the same track first on a different brand's speakers that were much more expensive (brand and speaker names withheld) and the Adagios clearly improved on their more expensive competitors... I would describe it as having a vail removed over Allison's mouth when we switched to the Adagios.

So how do these compare to Tylers? It depends on which ones... When compared to my Linbrook System Is, the Linbrooks have a bit more midrange detail, are a bit warmer, slighty faster and get lower (even though this is also a strength of the Adagios)... They are also more expensive.

The closest Tyler competitor price-wise would probably be the Linbrook System II, and I really could go either way as to which I would choose (this is a tremendous compliment to the Adagios, as I love the System II and would consider it my reference at its price point). I guess it would depend on what mood I was in at the time, or the associated electronics. I like the looks of both equally as well.

While the Adagios are not going to replace the Tylers in my main rig, I told the dealer (and meant it) that they have gone to the top of my short list for my bedroom system that I will be building in the next year. Excellent speakers!

---Dave

Good reading, thanks!

Aggielaw: I forgot in my prev post, see

http://www.daedalusaudio.com/design%20notes1.html

for info on Daedalus speakers.

Aggielaw: ...the Daedelus (of which I'd never heard before your post.)

I erred in spelling---the correct spelling is DAEDALUS---which will matter if you search A'gon. I suggest reading these threads to begin with

Daedalus DA-1
Daedalus DA-1: How Good Are They?

Aktchi, you're presenting a rock-solid list of speakers, IMHO. I've not heard the Zu (something about a single-driver speaker scares me despite the benefit of not having a crossover) or the Daedelus (of which I'd never heard before your post.) Jim and Ty both make excellent speakers. I would compare Ty's main line of speakers to the Adagio to some degree for their "cleanness" throughout the audible range, but the Adagio's speed and decay is a whole different league.

I haven't heard Jim's speakers yet, but hope to hear the HT3's while on vacation in Houston later this month. I'll let you know what I hear, if you like.

Howard

Hi Aggie and all.

Since there were a few questions asked about the Sasons here, I'll follow up a bit on Aggie's comments

Aggie, glad you enjoyed your brief time in Arizona with the Sasons. Wished you could have heard them in full bloom in a larger room. With good ancillary, proper set up (in a small or large room) and appropriate break in time, the Sasons are over the edge.

Just a couple of things that may be good to know.

First, yes, these puppies take a good while to break-in and is why we offer the 45 day return policy. As to why the Sasons take a good while to settle not only has to do with the drivers but the X-over as well. The Film and Foil type Capacitors and the 10 gauge Air Coil Inductors used throughout the X-over simply take a long time to break in but once these do, they are magic....bass included as one might expect with such large gauge Inductors. Wished it could be different but to do things that would alleviate some of the break in time would be to compromise the design and it's performance. That's not what we want to be about.

Aggie mentioned these may be one of audio's best kept secrets. Quit a statement and we're flattered. They may stay that way. Why? Because when you plunk your $$$ down for these, you're buying performance, not an ad campaign, marketing or other extraneous overhead that also comes with product. So, you'll probably never see the Sasons plastered all over the audio mags to create more image than substance and the buzz that can create. Whatever buzz there will be will come from our big mouth or end users who share their experiences via word of mouth....a (slower but) more sure word we believe. We'll take substance over image any day though I think the Sason offers both.

In the end, this is why we can offer these at $7900.00 (not $7500.00...Ooops!) direct from us after July. Aggie didn't mention this but up until July 1st, we trying to make a few waves by offering these at $5400.00! We can't do this for ever but we're willing to take a hit for a little while to make it easier for folks to prove our claims. If you're curious, we have an ad HERE.

Cheers to all!

Robert
RSAD