Accuphase dac 60

Welcome to the machine/insanity!  For this and future posts it’s best if you can provide details about what improvements you’re looking for over what you have now and what sound characteristics are most important to you so you get more targeted and useful recommendations (otherwise they’ll be all over the place and largely based on personal preferences that may not be inline with yours).  So fire away.

short of supplying add’l info as @soix mentioned i would say that the ps audio d-link was to my ear quite a strident, bright, digital sounding unit, very far from what better dacs of today can do... i don’t know the accuphase dacs but knowing their company target sound quite well, i would think the difference in sonic character would be significant - accuphase being smoother, more musical, less overtly detailed and mechanical sounding

I second the @jjss49 post on Accuphase sound. I own a E-650, go for digital module and allow atleast 300 plus hours before you make the final judgment!

Another +vote for adding the Accuphase DAC 60 module.

Happy Listening!

Thanks guys! Just hoping I get a good sonic improvement like I did when I traded my Classé delta pre pro towards the Accuphase e380. I have the older B&W 804S towers and this accuphase really made a big difference in sound, for the better. I had the Classé cp500 preamp and ca2200 amp and it was great, but decided I needed a change after 16yrs and took the plunge to accuphase. It sounds better on all levels. I was actually shocked, because Classé delta gear is great and all I’ve really know for a long time. Way more musical now.

I have a CD player and probably going to start streaming with qobuz and a bluesound node, so figured I mines well change the dac while I’m at it.

It is draining trying to read up on all these new dacs and to many to choose from. Just kind of figured I can’t go wrong with the dac 60 card. From the limited research I have found, everyone seems to say it is great. I listen to just about anything, so I guess I’m leaning towards the more warmer musical sound of things the older I get.

Hey, congratulations on your new Accuphase. I’m smitten too by the sound, the build quality, and the sheer aura of my E-480. I have the DAC-50 in mine and when I listen to music it’s just..... musical like it should be. Not only does Accuphase have a long history of state-of-the-art digital engineering, but the DAC card will of course have perfect synergy with the E-380. No ground loops, no extra IC’s or power cords to worry about, and nothing to distract from the sheer beauty of your new stereo component. I also have the AD-40 phono-card and it too is sublime.

Regards, ~Oran

We have the DAC-60 installed in a E-280 in one of our demo systems. In my opinion, you can't go wrong with the DAC-60. It is very well balanced and a great value. You get a lot of sound quality for the money by not paying for a chassis, etc. Plus, no extra interconnects or power cable either. Go for it! You won't be disappointed.

@duketbrd88

I think you’ve received very good recommendations from knowledgeable members responding to your inquiry. Accuphase has a long, vast and successful track record regarding digital audio sound quality. I feel very confident that you will experience significant improvement with your digital replay by obtaining the DAC 60 card.

Charles

Well, thanks everyone. Should be here next week. just ordered it yesterday.

i'm still amazed every time I turn the accuphase on. 

@duketbrd88 

Congratulations. Seeing that you’re in States, may I ask which vendor did you use to order DAC60? 

Well, got the dac 60 installed and listened for a good 8 hrs on and off. I do not care for it at all. It sounds crystal clear and musical, but my trusty ps audio digital link iii dac sounds way better in my system hooked up with balanced xlr (kinmber hero xlr cables). Like at least a 10 db increase in volume, way better highs, midrange and bass.  With the ps audio sounds so much better, I honestly can't believe it.

I don't get it, honestly. Even switching back from the dac 60 to my ps audio, my Rel sub came back to life, the bass on my b&w 804S speakers, the midrange and treble, the whole soundstage was back. Like way better. I have never changed something in my system that made such a difference, it is unreal. The dac 60 is going back. I am pretty bummed actually. Maybe it is just my system, IDK...

So, how can a dac be that much of a drastic difference in sound and volume? I would love to know. Anyone could blind test this scenario and pick each one out any day of the week. I am still confused on this whole thing. No amount of burning in would change what i am hearing. It literally sounds like two different stereo systems with each one. I really wanted to like it, but the minute I started listening, I knew something was off and didn't sound right.

Maybe someone could explain why this is? IDK....

It’s your decision obviously, but I would give it more time and accumulate hours. Admittedly I do not own Accuphase , but from what I know of their history/track record this seems a very atypical experience. Their digital sound quality is consistently admired. But I understand, the final decision is yours.

Charles

@duketbrd88

you need to adjust volume of the internal accuphase dac card to be the same as the external ps audio dlink dac -- that difference will entirely screw up any proper comparison of sound

assuming that dac card from accuphase is working properly, it simply has a lower output through the amplifier section than the d-link (or said differently, the d-link has higher fixed output voltage it is sending to the accuphase input) which is accounting for the volume discrepancy -- that same volume discrepancy is also making it sound like the sub is hardly working

think of the problem as a less powerful car having a much more sensitive gas pedal, its not more powerful, it just gives you most of what it has in the first inch of gas pedal travel - you just need to compensate for that to compare the sound properly

the fact that the accuphase volume knob needs to be set higher for the internal dac compared to the external one does NOT mean the louder one sounds better!

Jjss49, sounds exactly correct. I have to turn the accuphase up about 12db on the volume to sound about the same. There is also a comp button that boosts it closer to the output to very close to the ps audio dac.

it sounds good when cranked up louder, but just normal low listening levels, sounds totally different. The ps audio sounds full throughout the whole volume range, even pretty low listening levels. It’s just seems odd.

@duketbrd88

you need to adjust volume of the internal accuphase dac card to be the same as the external ps audio dlink dac -- that difference will entirely screw up any proper comparison of sound

assuming that dac card from accuphase is working properly, it simply has a lower output through the amplifier section than the d-link (or said differently, the d-link has higher fixed output voltage it is sending to the accuphase input) which is accounting for the volume discrepancy -- that same volume discrepancy is also making it sound like the sub is hardly working

think of the problem as a less powerful car having a much more sensitive gas pedal, its not more powerful, it just gives you most of what it has in the first inch of gas pedal travel - you just need to compensate for that to compare the sound properly

the fact that the accuphase volume knob needs to be set higher for the internal dac compared to the external one does NOT mean the louder one sounds better!
 

yes sir, I believe you are correct. Is that how drastic the volume will be with any external dac vs the accuphase dac 60? By sound match, you mean I have to adjust the volume of my e380 accuphase up until it matches the output of the ps audio to compare the two? It a good 12-15db on the volume up to have the dac 60 match. 

@jjss49 

So essentially the Accuphase has a lower analog stage output voltage/gain compared to the P.S. Audio DAC? You’d think that Accuphase would emphasize this important point clearly. 
Charles 

Yeah , all I can think of & don’t see that marked anywhere. Imagine me, not really ever messing with dacs except the ps audio I have had for about 18 years jumping to a $2,000 dac 60 card and noticing that. I am still a little shocked. 

RE:Gain. It is very common to have different gain settings between two devices from different manufacturer. I don’t understand what is the issue here? So what if you have to increase volume by 15-16db, it shouldn’t matter as long as you are not pushing amp to its limits.

As I suggested in my first post, allow DAC60 to settle in before you form any opinion. Going by my experience, you are bound to have different take on DAC60 after two weeks of continuous run-in. 

I’ll try, but actually like 3/4 volume on the amp now to jam out a little bit. The ps audio just sounds full, tight bass, the midrange, treble and everything are better from low listening level to higher listening levels. The dac 60 sounds so dull and boring at normal lower listening levels. Trust me, I’m trying to love it for $2,000, I really am. I never expected what I am hearing.

@duketbrd88

if you need to turn the volume of your accuphase integrated to 2-3 o’clock in its rotation, something is very wrong -- no way the dac card is designed to have to run the analog pre/amp section at that level to achieve a suitable volume driving real world speakers in normal sized rooms

what component is supplying your digital input into the dac-60 card now installed? is it the same component being used to feed the ps audio d link dac?

or you have been sent a defective card - or - something is wrong with the insert slot connection ...

@jjss49 

everything is the same. The sources are the same. I can get them both pretty close in sound, well volume wise turning the accuphase up, like 12db higher on the volume. It’s more of a difference for me from low to moderate listening levels, is where there is the biggest difference. Just has no body or oomph at lower normal levels.

I honestly don’t think there is anything wrong with the integrated or the dac 60 card. It installed like butter and everything works fine. Could not get any easier installing it. I looked everything over, didn’t touch anything with my bare hands and went in without a hitch. 

I do believe it is at least just a gain issue between the two dacs. The Dac 60 just sounds kind of boring and lifeless at lower listening levels, especially the bass in the B&W 804S drivers and the rel T7x sub. That is the biggest difference the more I listen and switch back and forth between the two dacs. Dac 60 seems lifeless in the bass department. The only way to match that is to push the comp button on the front, which gives it that boost in bass or as some described it as a old fashioned loudness button.

when a track is playing and it’s loud enough, it sounds good, maybe even a little smoother and a bit more musical then the ps audio, but not $2,000 better at all. 
 

nothing changed throughout the process except the dac 60 card and switching the optical and coaxial cables from one to the other. The ps audio is still in its spot and plugged in. 

Thanks everyone for your help, I am trying real hard to like this new dac, but this should be a bit more exciting like when I traded my classe cp500 pre and Classé ca2200 amp towards the Accuphase.

That was a nice noticeable difference in sound for the better. My ps audio dac was also in that pre/pro combo and the same speakers and cables. The Accuphase e380 rated @ 120 watts per channel sound better than the Classé delta series, e we which I was shocked. 

Any way. Just thought I would give an update on the dacs and it is what it is. Totally different sounding and the gain difference. It’s not often I get to upgrade or mess around with this stuff. To me 18 years to say, maybe I should switch out that Classé gear and try something else.

I meant to say the accuphase e380 integrated amp itself is a treat to listen to and I enjoy it very much. 

I will admit, it is sounding better the longer it runs. Just have to turn the volume up more. It is crystal clear. Everything is running through my equitech son of q jr balanced power supply. Dead quiet background. Not the slightest bit of hiss coming from the speakers. The ps audio seems to be better in the midrange and bass and the dac 60 is better in the highs. The verdict is still out. Still playing around. I do have a comp/loudness button I can turn on at lower volume for better bass or tone controls. Right now I’m just trying it with everything deactivated on the integrated just like I had the ps audio.

I will admit, it is sounding better the longer it runs.

That is encouraging. Remain patient and allow your Accuphase DAC 60 to accumulate more hours of use.It appears that things are progressing in the right direction.

Best wishes,

Charles

@charles1dad 

Thanks, still can’t believe the volume difference between the two dacs . I have personally never ran into something like that.

still can’t believe the volume difference between the two dacs

Do you happen to know the stated output voltage of your P.S.Audio and DAC 60? If there’s a large discrepancy (For example, 1.5V versus 4-5V, ) that would explain a lot. Some DACs have output voltages in excess of 5V, that’s very high.

Charles

Trying to find the Dac 60 card info, but the ps audio xlr output is 5.5 volts and rca is 2.75 volts according to Crutchfield. I’m using xlr into the amp.

I can’t find anything on the accuphase output at the moment.

The output voltage of P.S.Audio XLR is quite high. So a lot of gain it contributes to your overall system gain. If the DAC 60 is around 3-3.5V or certainly less voltage, there’s the likely issue.

Charles

So basically, what would that translate in to volume, db level? Like around 10-15db higher on the volume for the dac 60 to equal the ps audio volume level?

thanks

I was unable to find specific output voltage information with regard to the DAC -60. “If” this is the DAC section taken from the Accuphase DP-60 (Minus the CD spinning mechanism) the output voltage is 2.5 voltage for RCA and XLR. So if this is the case, then a very significant 3 volt difference from the P.S. Audio. I don’t know why it’s so difficult to find the DAC 60 output voltage rating as it is worthwhile to know.

Charles

Yeah, I know. I couldn’t find it. Not in the manual’s I have.

Continuous Average
8-ohm load
Output Power
(both channels driven)
(20 - 20.000 Hz)
4-ohm load
THD
(both channels driven)
4 to 16 ohm load
(20 - 20.000 Hz)
120 W
180 W
0.05%
Intermodulation Distortion
0.01%
HIGH LEVEL INPUT
20 - 20,000Hz (+0. -0.5 dB)
Frequency
Response
20 - 20,000Hz (+0, -0.2 dB)
MAIN IN
At 1 watt output: 3 - 150.000 Hz (+0. -3.0 dB)
Damping Factor
500 (with 8-ohm load, 50 Hz)
Input sensitivity
Input
Input
For rated output For 1 W output (ElA) Impedance
Input Sensitivity,
HIGH LEVEL INPUT
155 mV
14.2 mV
20 kilohms
Input Impedance
BALANCED INPUT
155 mV
14.2 mV
40 kilohms
MAIN IN
1.23 V
113 mV
20 kilohms
1.23 V*
Output Voltage
Output Impedance
Gain
PRE OUTPUT
PRE OUTPUT
50 ohms
HIGH LEVEL INPUT -› PRE OUTPUT
MAIN IN -› OUTPUT
18 dB
28 dB

What I found on the accuphase e380 integrated 

@charles1dad 

I don’t know if the above manual helps. On the last page are some voltage figures on my e380 integrated.

Since Accuphase apparently designs their devices for the same voltage whether balanced or unbalanced, you might try the unbalanced output from the PS Audio DAC for closer comparison. 

Are the optical and coaxial digital inputs two different sources?

Also, how is your Sub connected?
 

@duketbrd88

I see that the “preamp section output voltage “ is 1.23v. Since the DAC 60 is placed into this circuit I’m don’t know if it just utilizes this for voltage gain. If so 1.23is pretty low. Speculation for certain.

installed)

The unanswered question is does the Accuphase DAC 60 card have an independent output voltage or is it totally reliant on the preamplifier output voltage of the integrated amplifier?

Charles

@rockrider 

yes, two different sources for optical and coaxial. The Rel T7x is connected with there speakon high level connection. Great sub by the way, I need to add another one.

@charles1dad 

I am guessing it is on the preamp. I can’t find anything on it and they are just inputs. How do most higher end companies do it, like luxman, rotel michi, Anthem, Parasound or anyone that has a built in dac on their preamp? I don’t know.

@duketbrd88 

I noticed that your amp has “Individual phase setting for each input”, so you might try that to see if it helps. 

Does your music source have an attenuation you’ve used in the past to equalize your PS Audio DAC to your other sources?

@lalitk 

You are pretty familiar with Accuphase components. Do you think that the DAC 60 card output voltage is derived from the integrated amplifier’s preamplifier output or does it likely have its own independent output voltage?

Charles

The only good DAC Accuphase built is the DC-1000.

It is amazing, it kill everything I heard from Aqua or Lampizator, regardless of the cost. It is a 20K unit though…. If it’s not for the DC-1000, plenty of better DACs for the money… Aqua and Lampizator to name a few.

@duketbrd88 

If it helps,

I have a Denafrips Pontus ll Dac and I just looked up the output voltages and they are 2.0vrms RCA at 625 ohms and 4.0vrms XLR at 1250 ohms.

All the best.

@charles1dad

The DAC60 is a dedicated digital input board that simply decodes incoming digital signal and inputs directly into preamplifier analog section.

@duketbrd88

What is your digital source? And what slot did you install the DAC60 board?