Update Addendum:
I asked and Steve told me that he sells about 10 OD's a year. Most just order them and don't use the trial period. What he does is have you pay in full up front and then sends you his demo unit. If you like it, you send it back and he builds you a brand new one and sends it out. If you don't want to keep it, he refunds the money in full minus shipping when he receives the demo back. He said he has only had 4 people (not including me) go the Demo approach and only 1 has chosen not to purchase.
He also mentioned that he is constantly tweaking and upgrading his OverDrive design and he has many customers who send them back for upgrades as they become available. I do not know what the fee for these upgrades is other then shipping fees.
I forgot to mention that I now understand why the DAC module has a mohawk. It gets pretty darn hot. Not burning hot mind you, but it does not run cool. The power unit as well, although not as hot as the DAC got. The Aeris runs cold, all the time. |
UPDATE:
First off, I may have secured access to a Meitner MA-1. Would be fun to add that to my shootout. It's available to me if I'm patient, i think…
Second, the Flockazinga was not used during this session. ;)
As with my other sessions, I listened to the DAC using a Wireworld Platinum Starlight USB from my Mac Mini running iTunes and Amarra, Merrill Audio's XLR interconnects (generously lent by Merrill for this shootout, and they are amazing - I will likely buy myself 2 pair when I am done with this shootout), and used my Shunyata Zitron Alpha Digital PC direct to the wall. All is sitting on my Adona SR4 rack. The DAC is running through my Jeff Rowland Battery powered Criterion pre-amp running via Shunyata ZiTron Anaconda balanced 1.5m cables to my Merrill Veritas mono blocks. Then finally through Audience AU24SE shotgun runs to the Vienna Acoustics The Music speakers.
First listen of the EA ODSE (Empirical Audio Over Drive SE is too long to keep typing).
Physical description - It is a set of 2 modules, power and formal DAC. These units are tiny tanks. I'm guessing aluminum or some other lightweight, stiff metal. Very attractive and very solid. An industrial look; but refined and well implemented. Nicely finished and not at all looking like it came from a garage or one man show (nicely done Steve). My first though was that it looked like the younger smaller silver cousins of that little black robot from Star Wars that Chewbaca growled at and scared away; but one of the cousins has a mohawk. ;)
I like the layout of toggles (projected and recessed) and a small volume knob that has a nice feel to it while rotating. The recessed toggles were difficult to flip, but they really are infrequently used and I can understand his decision to use them recessed. I will leave Steve to explain the coupling cap and Hynes upgrades and all of that (please chime in as you want). The 2 units are connected via a power umbilical that is well made and easy to connect. The connectors on the back hold PC, USB, XLR very well and were well laid out with nothing difficult to connect or disconnect. Its staggeringly small compared to the Big6 Lampy and about half the size of my Aeris. The two modules CAN NOT be stacked, which is too bad because they are begging to go for a piggy back ride (maybe there is some type of creative divider/shelf that can be designed to put above the power module so the DAC can jump on top?). I know that we can adjust the volume from the computer so I don't need to get my lazy A$$ off the couch if i'm running direct (which I didn't yet), but I would still like a tiny remote that controlled only volume directly on the DAC. But knowing Steve, he has a good reason it's not available...
The instruction manual is very well layed out/written and very easy to follow. And Steve is ridiculously available to answer questions via email or on the phone within a more then reasonable time frame.
As I mentioned earlier, I did need to upload a driver for my Mac to find the DAC. But once that was loaded into the computer, it linked instantly and has not been an issue since. No real I.T. knowledge needed to get it going. My Amarra software instantly recognized it and I was up and running. I ran exclusively 16/44 source so I have NO idea how it sounds with hi-res, nor is that the purpose of this thread. I listen almost exclusively to 16/44.
The ODSE is FULLY broken in and I gave it another 3 full days of running before I listened in my room. The Aeris has only 220 hours on it (maybe 260 if you add the small amount the first owner put on it, maybe); and it needs anywhere between 600 and 800 hours to fully bloom. I'm running it day and night to get those hours on though. And it sounds better each 50 hours that gets added…
Sound - WOW is this hard!!! I listened to my 33 song list twice, first through the ODSE and then through the Aeris. I will repeat the entire process in a few days starting first with the Aeris. I liked the ODSE more when i listened to the ODSE, and then I liked the Aeris more when I listened to the Aeris…. Is that useful to anyone???? LOL!!!!!
Honestly, what it says is that Steve is an amazing designer and knows his stuff! The ODSE is, in every way, the equal to the Big6 and the Aeris, and may surpass it in certain ways.
the Aeris seamed to dip a tad lower, and control that bottom a hair better. Although the only time you noticed was listening to the Aeris. I was never wanting for more with the ODSE, and I never thought it sounded sloppy or lose; always tight and proper. The same on the top end, the highs seamed to linger and stretch a scotch higher with the Aeris then the ODSE. I think, in all fairness, that there is a synergy between the Rowland Pre-amp and DAC that adds significantly to that. I am very curious to see if that will change when I run the ODSE direct to the amps via the Final Drives (I promise that will happen, but I want to run these 2 sessions first); although the Criterion is crazy resolving… I don't mean to say that the Aeris is formally more extended as I felt the extension on both ends was a bit "HiFi" and will probably go away once the Aeris burns in thoroughly (I hope). I will say that the music up top and down low was equally enjoyable with both. I felt as if there was more complexity in the Aeris, and more layering in the ODSE if that makes any sense at all… I honestly thought I heard further into the music on the ODSE, like there was more there.
Leading edges and trailing edges were both equally reproduced and made them both wonderfully enticing. No winner there…
The mids were interesting. What the ODSE did with the cello, french horn, and higher registers of a base guitar or base cello was pure and unadulterated magic! Real, palpable, feel the hairs on your neck stand on end magic. The Aeris didn't do this. Male vocals, well, uh, sang….. hehe… Seriously, what Steve did makes everything in the mid section incomparable. The Aeris (currently) excels a bit more on the top and bottom end, but I have been told that this is to be expected in the Aeris's road to finality, at which time it becomes a music making magic monster. I can't tell you how I wish the Aeris were fully broken in!!! I think the Aeris made the female voice a bit more lush while the ODSE made her sound more demure; both offered vocal dynamics and equal upper and lower extension.
Lets talk soundstage and imaging. The AE should be called the Holographic OverDrive SE Generator! I have not had such a deep, delineated stage in front of me in my room. The Aeris gave me more top to bottom. Left to right is equal, but the ODSE has a front to back stage that could practically be measured with a tape measure at about 8 feet, which put some of the performers behind my glass door and enjoying the outdoors on my back patio. Performers were meticulously placed in their proper spot and had a sense of belonging in the X, Y and Z axis. The Aeris did not do this as well. It did is very well, but not as well as the ODSE.
All music belonged and sounded wonderful on both DAC's.
I listened to 33 songs on the ODSE and didn't even notice the time had passed. That says a lot! I had to force myself to keep focusing with both. I honestly gave less time to the Aeris on this go round since I was getting a bit tired (I was up until 2:30 last night), so I jumped through a few of my songs on the Aeris. Next go round the Aeris will get first shot.
I apologize if I used some terms that are very subjective, but these are both so good that I need to really fight to identify differences and something to grasp onto so I can make a decision between the two.
Both are engaging, both are musical, both are dynamic. Round 2 to follow in a few days. I'm hoping that another hundred hours or so will really help the Aeris get closer its final character.
As of this very second, I actually think I would keep the ODSE. But the fact that the Aeris is not fully broken in makes me want to wait until it has 600 hours on it, at least, to make a final decision. I don't know if Steve is willing for me to hold onto my demo unit for that long… 700 hours would put me at 20 days from today.
LOOKING BACK - The Lampy Big6 was equal in every way to both of these guys. I think the imaging and soundstage of the Lampy and the ODSE are more similar. I also think the high and low extension are more similar. Actually, the mids are more similar as well. lol. Me thinks Steve likes tubes and found a way to get the best of both worlds. The Big6 was, well, big. It didn't have the physical fit and finish of the ODSE or the Aeris. For those who want to tube roll and accessorize, the Big6 is the unabashed winner. I have no doubt that with time, energy, patience and research the Big6 can equal or surpass the performance of either DAC I heard today. And we have now established that the tubes in the Big6 will last many years and that there is ample technical support in the states to make anyone comfortable with a Lampy purchase. But the Lampy will need some tweaking and some NOS hunting to get the most out of it. The Aeris and ODSE are tweaked and done; just maybe play with power cords and vibration stabilization; thats it.
My PS Audio DirectStream was supposed to be completed either late last week or early this week, and I was supposed to get an email saying that it is sitting on Mayura's desk with a USB cable running 24/7 for 2 weeks. I have not received such an email, and I called yesterday and left a message for an update. Sigh...
'Fin |
Agear - best quote ever in Audiophile obsession ... "you should not bail simply due to extra $ or logistical hassles." You, sir, are hard core!!! I tip my gold coated LP demagnetizer to you my friend. :) The language may make it seem that way but its really a matter of logic. Steve offered to send you the Offramp. Its easy breezy. Is your OCD fervor wearing off? BTW, my prediction is and has been Aeris. Imprinting is a biological term....:/ |
Granny - I learned this lesson from modding Mark Levinson gear, which is very dark sounding. I jumpered most of the long traces with silver wire and it opened up and became airy. No darkness. I don't mod anymore, but I learned a lot from 10 years of it.
Steve N.
Empirical Audio |
Hi Agear, a few posts ago, you brought up an interesting technical point... Electrical and mechanical grounding. I looked this up in the Rowland Knowledge base, and here is what I found in the Aeris section.... Guido, I read through that site and was duly impressed by the meticulous detail internally in addition to the chassis work. Most dacs fall short in this area. I am sure its part of the reason why the Aeris sounds good. |
"FR4 glass-epoxy is the enemy of good analog signals. Dielectric absorption is the issue."
Most interesting tidbit of information Steve. No more than 3/4" long. Wow, I have some modding to do:-) |
"Aeris is powered by two separate low noise, passive power factor corrected, switch mode power supplies (SMPS) – one for analog and one for digital."
Actually, the Overdrive SE uses three SMPS, one for digital and two for analog. Each has a Hynes-type linear regulator on the output. All of these are housed in a separate chassis. Very similar to Aeris I think, except for one important distinction; the Hynes regulators. The power and ground return techniques are very similar too.
Another key difference in the Overdrive SE is that any trace in the analog section that would be over about 3/4" long is replaced with an externally routed pure silver cotton insulated twisted-pair cable. FR4 glass-epoxy is the enemy of good analog signals. Dielectric absorption is the issue.
Steve N.
Empirical Audio |
Hi Agear, a few posts ago, you brought up an interesting technical point... Electrical and mechanical grounding. I looked this up in the Rowland Knowledge base, and here is what I found in the Aeris section....
Aeris uses very small surface mount devices (SMD). According to one article, a benefit of SMD is "allowing these components to be located as close as possible to corresponding ground planes". See:
http://jeffrowlandgroup.com/kb/questions.php?questionid=622
More on Aeris grounding... "In the Aeris 6-layer PCB, two complete layers are dedicated to ground. The clock signal is isolated from the signal path by these two grounding layers. Two layers are dedicated to power distribution, and two layers are dedicated to signal distribution. As a result, the clock signal cannot be contaminated by the audio signal." ... There is more on electric grounding and 6-layer PCB design at:
http://jeffrowlandgroup.com/kb/questions.php?questionid=621
On mechanical isolation of the power supplies... "Aeris is powered by two separate low noise, passive power factor corrected, switch mode power supplies (SMPS) – one for analog and one for digital. Both are housed in a single machined external enclosure for maximum mechanical and EMI/RFI isolation." See:
http://jeffrowlandgroup.com/kb/questions.php?questionid=619
In general, Aeris circuit sections are buried inside isolated pockets carved in the aluminum ingot of the main chassis.... But this is nothing terribly new... Rowland has used monolythic chassis for mechanical grounding/isolation for a couple of decades.
Other manufacturers may have used totally different techniques... Of course, in the end, it really does not matter... What is important is whether we emotionally drawn by the sound of a component or we are not.
G. |
Agear - best quote ever in Audiophile obsession ... "you should not bail simply due to extra $ or logistical hassles." You, sir, are hard core!!! I tip my gold coated LP demagnetizer to you my friend. :)
Kana813 - John at Audio Connection is waiting for a new Romulus Signature to come in. No clue if it has a VC. I told him that when it has 400-500 hours on it to call me and I will audition.
Update: today at 2'ish the EA OverDrive will have 48 straight hours on it. But I won't be able to get to it until tomorrow morning. Hopefully I will have first impressions for you all by tomorrow night. |
Oh and except for DHTs, (no info on those yet), Dac tubes are run at 20% so they last for like 10 years no problem and consume like 20w, so you can keep them on for long stretches. Turning them on and off often is what shortens their lives. This is very different from tubes in amplifiers, so care and maintenance is minimal and about on par with SS Dacs. In other words NOT and issue. |
Relax Matt,
I am enjoying your thread and all the posts. People will have different opinions and that is a GOOD thing. Keep on trucking. |
"When I get the Romulus DAC in, it will be for only 24h and I will not have the opportunity to tweak, tube swap or anything - it will just have to stand on its own two feet, as I let the Big6. I will say it like I hear it, as I have all along."
Matt,
If the Romulus you're going to have access to, has less 400
on it, doesn't have the VC and isn't a Signature I wouldn't waste your time.
The Romulus Signature with VC is a game changer, so IMO,
for your testing, I think it's important to try the best configuration of this product.
BTW, the Berkeley Alpha Reference is now available and should be included in your test. |
Now you've done it Matt. Every red blooded Audiophile on the planet will now HAVE to own a Flockazinga (I hope I spelled that right).
I don't know about the rest of you but I already paid for mine, before the line gets to long. I went for the sweet spot, the one in the middle. I only have to wait 8.375 years. So you better oder yours before the wait is forever.
But seriously this is a great thread and you are doing a super job. Thanks.
|
Matt your probably right.. In any case I'm looking forward to your comparison of the DS to the others |
You managed to encapsulate pretty much every single sorted truth of our obsession. Still LOL |
Oh my, your post is priceless and I'm about to bust a head vein laughing.
You are a very funny and talented writer Matt. LOL! |
Ah, the flockazinga......
Only found at www.flockazinga-ur-gaginga.net
Available in 3 variants: Phase 1, Phase 2, and Plaid
The basic module is placed exactly 47 feet behind, 23 feet to the left of, and 3 feet below the left amp of your monoblocks. A stereo amp variant is in gamma trials and will be ready next month (although it will more likely be June of 2018). If placed more then ten thousandths of an inch off of its correct location, it will not only ruin the sound of your system but make you desperately hungry for escargot and cause your dog to chronically pee on your bedroom carpet. If it is set up properly however, it will make your system sound like the musicians live in your listening room, ate all of the food in your refrigerator and are giving you the best live performance of their careers!
Phase 1 includes ruby slippers and a cloud with a real silver lining.
Phase 2 upgrades to a diamond coated smock with platinum doodads, magnesium alloy thingies, and 7 rare earth elements not yet officially discovered.
Plaid upgrades to pure unobtainium throughout with a liquified frozen cortex from one of the great maestros of history.
Prices range from :
"are you f'in kidding me" to "three dollars less then the national debt in 1998"
Orders take between 4 and 19 years to fulfill and must be paid completely in advance. |
Mattnshilp, I was pretty sure that this thread would take off. You could have just as easily done your DAC shootout in private and not had to deal with all the feedback. The degree of interest illustrates how different your "call 'em as you see 'em" is compared to the tiptoeing we get from the "professionals". I'm looking forward to the comparisons yet to come. Thanks much for sharing your ongoing evaluations. |
No doubt, Erik, but I am guessing that the results of this thread have the potential of affecting EA and Lampizator more them PS Audio. The DirectStream has been getting enuf good press that even if I say it sucks (which I doubt I would) , I can't imagine it would have any significant bearing on his sales/bottom line.
If, however, I chose the DirectStream over all the others, I can't help but think it would help his sales (or at least be referred to as a positive review on his site).
Don't mean to make this sound like ego. Just clarifying the statement. |
Where do I find the flockazinga you refer to? I bet it is awesome! |
Nice thoughts Matt, and I applaud you sticking to your guns.. The only thing I'd disagree with is your last statement:
"Rowland is a big company with a lot of $$$$ and R&D behind them, as is PS Audio. Rowland and PS both couldn't give a you know what about my thread...."
I can't speak for Rowland but I know Paul Mcgowan of PSA cares, a lot..you might be surprised, just spend sometime on the PSA user forums. |
To all: I set out to pick the best DAC for me, for my needs, and report those findings to those who were interested. To be Frank, I had NO IDEA my thread would become this watched! I picked DAC's based on reputation, red book performance, build quality and all of your recommendations (tube vs SS made no difference to me). I started buying and getting deposits on DAC's to audition in my home; I have a huge amount invested in all of these DAC's but it was the only way to get them all here, in my room.
My comments and criticisms are honest, but they are mine. I understand that there is always a tube, power cord, vibration device, widget, flockazinga, or uber accessory to make a particular piece of kit better. I had the luxury of having the Big6 in and truly enjoying it, and even serendipitously finding the exact tube you guys all insisted I try with the Big6 to get the most out of it.
I sincerely understand that one of the best things about tube gear is the ability to tweak. Tube roll, apply tube dampers, cryogenic tubes, Chinese/Russion/Klingon NOS, I get it. And I get that some of you feel that if I am not willing to go down that road and tube roll, accessorize, etc then I am not giving that particular tube unit a fair chance to truly shine. I totally get it! I understand and I don't disagree.
My simplest response is that, well, tweaking to that extent is not my thing. There, I said it. I have a very obsessive compulsive personality (duh, look at the lengths I have gone through to get these DAC's into my house because I just NEEDED to try them all) but I find that I can get so sucked down the road of obsessive tweaking that I lose sight of just enjoying the music. I've done it before and I don't want to go there again. For the same reason, I don't spend the extra money or time upgrading my fuses, caps, XLR receptacles or anything with my SS gear. It's a slippery slope that I fall right down!
Also, to be honest, I don't truly think its mandatory to tube roll and accessorize to enjoy a tubed piece of kit. I understand that every manufacturer has a retail price point they want to stay within, and I totally get that they need to secure sufficient inventory to market and produce volume to make a living (thus eliminating their ability to include that UN tube, or any other, that truly makes their unit sing). But I trust these boutique designers (like Lampizator) to pick a solid, reliable, long lived tube that gives them the sound they want to impress reviewers and customers without needing to roll tubes. For $8k, that Big6 blew me away (with or without the UN tubes). There are better tubed and SS DAC's out there that every one of you would sell your Big6 (even with the perfect tubes) and upgrade to. I needed to look to other non-audio-factors to help make my decision as to which to keep; both were that good. But I would be lying if I didn't say that one of those other factors was that the Aeris is SS and won't make me constantly think there is a better tube/accessory out there to improve upon my already incredible sounding Big6; and then worry 2 years from now that it doesn't sound as good as it did last year, or did it, and where am I going to secure a sufficient supply of UN tubes to keep my music flowing for years. I could have enjoyed the stock Big6 and not thought about anything else to be flatly honest; again, it's THAT good! But the Aeris did equally well. I am auditioning 5 DAC's total. I can only keep one. I'm going to piss off, disappoint, frustrate, annoy, infuriate, confuse or insult someone along the way no matter what I say (obviously). Does that mean I should just keep the rest of the shoutout to myself? I prefer not as I enjoy your input and typing my "mini reviews" helps me to process and focus my decisions. But realize that I spend a LOT of time with each "Update." Each takes me at least an hour or two to process, condense and express. I hope that a few of you are getting something useful out of this.
If, to some of you, this means that I am not a true tube aficionado and should stick with SS gear, maybe you are right. I love some tube gear and some SS gear. When I get the Romulus DAC in, it will be for only 24h and I will not have the opportunity to tweak, tube swap or anything - it will just have to stand on its own two feet, as I let the Big6. I will say it like I hear it, as I have all along.
I am selling the Big6 to a very lucky Audiogoner, and I encourage him to jump on this thread and tweak/roll/modify to his hearts content and report his findings. I think that would be great!
To be honest, the Aeris is f'in amazing and may be the one for me; we shall see. I am scared sh/+less that I am NOT going to like the EA OverDrive SE as much, because Steve has been ridiculously nice, available, responsive, courteous and amazingly knowledgeable and I WANT to like it the most so his kit "wins" the shoutout. I am sensitive to, and desperately want to favor the little guys (Lampy and EA) since they are so dependent on good reports from people like us and forum threads like this to succeed.
Lampy has nothing to be disappointed with. That Big6 is a winner through and through! I am sure the overDrive SE will be the same. Rowland is a big company with a lot of $$$$ and R&D behind them, as is PS Audio. Rowland and PS both couldn't give a you know what about my thread....
Ok. Back to your regular programming. I needed to get that off my chest!
Sorry for any typos, I did this on my iPad. Auto correct and all.... |
This is good advise, but I'll give you even better advise:
Power all of your digital gear from a Plasmatron 3 from VHAudio.com While this is a very appealing product, there are number of audiophiles who'd appreciate something else that does a very similar job, but lacks the tubes. :-) The hard-core "tube lovers" will still be not as impressed (especially when the beautifu tube glow is missing :-)), but a faithfully comparable performance/improvement can actually be achieved with solid state devices as well. :-) Stay tuned. Best wishes, Alex Peychev APL Hi-Fi |
DallasJustice has now moved to a DEQX HDP-4. |
Power all of your digital gear from a Plasmatron 3 from VHAudio.com: That looks kool Steve. Again "ancillary" gear has a major impact on digititis.... |
"What you really needed to do was change out the rectifier."
This is good advise, but I'll give you even better advise:
Power all of your digital gear from a Plasmatron 3 from VHAudio.com:
http://www.vhaudio.com/plasmatron.html
All of the show exhibitors that have used one on loan buy one. I did and I love it.
Steve N.
Empirical Audio |
Wisnon wrote "DallasJustice had the Empirical Dac with all the trimmings and abandoned it for a TotalDac with Legato 16/44 transport and I think moved on to TotalDac Server and USB converter."
That is true, but realize that this was the original Overdrive and not the Overdrive SE. Big difference.
BTW, the TotalDAC USB cable is evidently the one to beat.
Steve N.
Empirical Audio |
Audioengr, I have used it with your former colleague's Legacy Music Server and with several top rated dacs, whose names I will not give as have three other respected dealers and manufacturers. We all have concluded that the PureDac is exceptional. I now have Williams double DSD dac which I will get working this week. It will probably exceed the PureDac, but that is what it will take. This PCM stuff has passed its prime. |
Shawbros3, I asked you some questions on your system thread. Would you rather me ask them in private? |
Matt, I would not shirk your due diligence regarding the transport. The transport is as important as the dac (IMO) and you should not bail simply due to extra $ or logistical hassles. Similarly, USB-SPDIF converters have major impact. Steve did offer to send an Offramp and I would accept that offer.
At one point and time, Grannyring proclaimed his modded mini untouchable, until he tried Nugent's Offramp. Steve has an actual pedigree in computers (Intel chip designer) and knows the game better than most. It did not prove to be synergistic with his L4 and thus the move onwards. A Lampi transport would probably have been better. Based on reviews, the Romulus sounds better spinning plastic than via its digital connections which begs other questions.
My only beef with Lampi is they need an updated transport that can process all file types. I myself will be getting the Auralic Aries when it is available.... |
Hi Matt, You may call me Keith, The comparisons of the Dacs with a volume control you have available that you said you would try them direct to amps now gives me special interest more than before with your shoot-out thread , As a few have said, Thankyou for the time and effort you are doing Here, I must say, I am interested in the Aeris for ALL the same reasons you are, I currently have a modest priced tube digital player, sounds great, on the other hand, when I read the things you pointed out about the problems of tubes in general, like ageing to make the sound performance degrade caught my eye, Back in the late 90s, I run all solid state with success, sounded better than any tube componet at the time I ever listened to any where, tube componets have come a long way in this age, that's likly why I have tried tube componets again, But this tube rolling thing of going thru so many tubes has me not wanting to go down that Rabbit hole!, To me, That is like running multiple brands of cables to use them as tuning devices, you could end up chaseing the tail for-ever, which becomes a huge exspense, tube rolling could end the same way, and of course their is always infant tube failures etc..., I do want to point out, I love tube sound, just not the problems, This Aeris has me interested to see how it fairs in the end of the shoot-out, Thanks Matt, cheers. |
Wisnon - i didn't say I have "a strong bias to US made equipment."
I said that if I have to chose between two products that are similar in performance and both make me equally happy, that I would chose the USA made product.
I chose the Lampy for my shootout for the same reason you guys chose it, it has a well deserved stunning reputation. If the Lampy sounded BETTER to me then the Aeris, I would have chosen the Big6.
Boy, you guys are a tough crowd. Lol. |
Winson, I own a Aesthetix Romulus with/upgrades now and it has 4 tubes :-)
I like it better than the Lampi 4/4 I had, but it is not because the Romulus blew it away sonically. It is because I simply like the music better with the Romulus. |
Matt, thank you for the time you are putting into sharing the results of your DAC testing with us.
I read your 6/7 round 1 results with interest because your conclusions were strikingly similar to the reasons I chose the Metrum Hex over the L4G4. I am not suggesting a SS vs. tube comparison, or even implying virtues of NOS, but I do suspect the Lampizator DACs have a "house sound" that many here find to be near-perfect, but not everyone. Lukaz should be applauded for creating a line up that appeals to many, and gets better as you move up the product line. However, at those levels, the choice is not so much right or wrong, but personal preference that can be influenced by sonic attributes as well as other factors.
You have some other great choices coming up so I look forward to hearing your continuing impressions. |
This is all personal taste and preference! I love tubes FYI ! |
And GrannyR, its not a knock against Steve Nugent, who makes excellent products. However, personal taste varies a lot and I can see why people can choose one thing over another. One caution I will repeat from AGear is that some equipment you only miss when its gone… I have seen my share of regret sales.
The one thing I dont get from Matt is why would he choose the L6 in this comparison when he has a strong bias to US made equipment (nothing wrong with that). The Polish origins of the Lampizator was known upfront. |
GrannyR,
Except for L7, the Lamp Dacs run the tubes at only 20-25% of rated capacity, so they should last 10+ years. Tube aging is NOT an issue. Indeed at about 20w output, you can leave them on indefinitely without a big energy bill and they will always be "ready". I often do that, except when away on a trip or something, so really no different from SS. In my L4, I have found great Tungrsam NOS tubes for as little as $10 locally and $25 on Ebay with shipping included.
Lukasz told me he made arrangements in case of his untimely demise to immediately release all his schematics publicly online, as he would never leave his loyal customers in a lurch.
In terms of the global economy, small boutique places will likely survive BETTER than larger entities with BIG fixed overheads, etc.
Interms of Transport, that is a different discussuion. DallasJustice had the Empirical Dac with all the trimmings and abandoned it for a TotalDac with Legato 16/44 transport and I think moved on to TotalDac Server and USB converter. I have heard the TotalDac and its very good, but didnt induce me to want to change from lamp.
Many claim the Lampi SB Transport is the best they have for RBCD, especially when fed by Ethernet. I cant say as I never had this experience. I can saw that Lampi DSD is sublime and if any solution is not doing DSD well, I am not interested. |
I am not here for any agenda on the Lampi or anything else. I simply suggested a tube change that in my system, which excels in 3D presentation, might give the reviewer here another view into the Lampi sound. And with the CAT amps/SoundLab pair, I can compete with all but the very top systems at the frequency extremes as well.
Solid state designers have many amplification devices to chose from. Tube designers are stuck with a few limited choices which are in high supply, sadly poor performers compared to the past tubes. But the consumer can resolve this with a little effort.
If I based any listening sessions to the tube products I have owned over the years with their stock tubes, I likely would never have been satisfied with any of them. The stock tubes barely give even a glimpse of a tube product's potential…..I don't care what any tube product manufacturer says about this.
I will soon try a number of rectifier tubes in the L6 and share those findings in a new upcoming thread. |
Well Joecasey, if you like a flat 3D presentation with the middle octaves distant, then the Sylvania tubes will be for you. |
TBG - my room partner and I used my Overdrive in one system and the BMC in another system in or RMAF room last year. BMC is good at that price point, but not in the same league.
Steve N.
Empirical Audio |
Mattnshilp, I've mentioned the BMC PureDac earlier. You should add it to your list. It is very cheap at $1790 retail. I know of a man who bought one for use in his bedroom system and now uses it in his main system in place of the expensive dCS multiple box dac. |
Bill_K - I agree. I was responding to someone else's comment that the Lampy would sound its best with an external USB to spdif converter. The same can, I'm sure, be said for the Aeris and DS DAC's. The only DAC with a reliably superior USB input is the AE OverDrive SE.
That said, I can not overstate how freakin good both the Aeris and Big6 are fed through the USB!!!!
I am just saying that I don't want to go down the external USB/spdif converter road right now. |
Mattnshilp, I appreciate the effort that you are putting into these comparisons and for your time in sharing your findings with us. Regarding the final paragraph of your last post about the Lampy having an inferior USB port that requires an external USB converter, I would like to mention that the Rowland has a similar limitation in its design. It has been reported on this forum that the Rowland design team themselves has admitted that the Aeris sounds its best through the SPDIF inputs and not via USB. Their USB implementation is also limited to a high of 96kHz sampling frequency with the SPDIF inputs supporting up to 192kHz. Just wanted to point that out if it may impact your decision. I ruled out the Aeris DAC due to that 96kHz limitation via USB as well as its lack of support for DSD file playback, but of course everyone has differing needs and priorities. I also have a fondness for Rowland gear as I currently own their model 625 power amp which I find superb! Best of luck as you continue the evaluation process, and thanks again for taking the time to share your results. |
Grannyring - Tya. Too bad I'm not that lucky with my lottery tickets!
Agear - Thats good to know that Lampy has a solid tech in my area if I ever wander down the Lampy path in the future. Dac's, by definition, pretty much have expiration dates as tech continues to pulse forward.
Kernelbob - I love it. And you were right. But I know that I know very little, and prove it every day!!! And my kids remind me of this constantly!
AudioLabyrinth - I have every intention of trying each DAC with volume controls direct to the amps. Steve from EA was generous enough to send me his FInal Drive magic boxes that supposedly make running these DAC's direct a true revelation. Trust me, I'd love to re-acquire the big $$$$$ I put into my pre-amp. But for now, the Criterion does things that no other pre-amp has ever shown me, and I'm not rushing to get rid of it. |
Matt,
What you really needed to do was change out the rectifier. This will relax the sound and get rid of the artificiality you are hearing with the NU VT-99's, put in those Tung-Sols. 40% improvement by just swapping out the tubes? In my book that is HUGE in the audio world. Some folks spend $$$$ just to get 5-10% improvement and they're more than happy.
Doesn't matter I guess at this point. Even though you chose the Aeris, at least you got a flavor of what the Lamp could offer. On to the next battle!
Have fun man... |
Tooooo funny that the miraculous tubes showed up as they did! Great stuff ! |
Another ripple in the equation to consider is mechanical grounding. I like Sistrum products but there are others out there to consider as well. Sistrum has a significant effect particularly on speakers, subs, and tubed gear...
Then there is electrical grounding and power conditioning. I find these all impact digital. |
I personally Respect what you have said between the Lampy and the Aeris dacs, As it turns out, Reading your last post, I feel the same way as you do!,I also believe you are making a wise decision based on all that you have said here, Bravo! |
Update:
#1 - The EA OverDrive SE is up and running. Once I got the drivers running, everything worked instantly. I will cook it for 2 solid days before listening.
#2 -I called my Uncle to wish him a happy birthday. This is the uncle who introduced me to high end audio when I was 11. He still has an old old tube system (Audio Research pre and amp, B&W speakers, Nakamichi azimuth correcting tape deck, Linn table/Denon cartridge). He went through a lot of tube gear in his day, but barely listens anymore. We started talking audiophile nervosa and I told him about the Big6 and my DAC shootout. I mentioned the UN VT-99 and he went though his boxes of tubes and actually freakin had a matched pair! He has never sold any of his tube collection and probably never will (I am praying I inherit that some day!). He brought them over 4 hours ago; we let them warm up for 2 hours in the Big6 (which I had already packed up) and he and I sat down for some bonding and nephew/uncle time….
Here, for all those who demanded an audition of the UN VT-99 rolled Lampy Big6, are some impressions of my time with my Uncle (and the UN tubes):
It is amazing how a passion for music and the gear can bring two people of such different ages together!
The Lampy was unquestionably different. The upper levels had more energy, more extension and seamed to be surrounded by a layer of realism that was not there before. Like cleaning a window that you didn't really know had a little dirt on it. The lower frequencies were slightly (if at all) deeper but clearly held control a tad better then with the other tubes. The mid's were, by-in-large unchanged. Equally musical and engaging, but no more so then before the rolling. The soundstage expanded in both width, depth and most interestingly, in height. There was more above me then before. The soundstage opened; but to me it felt a bit artificial whereas the OEM tubes seamed to present a more realistic spacial image. Dynamics were a bit more, well…. more. Subtle transitions between quiet passages and crescendo seamed more meticulous, more defined. Leading and trailing edges were clearly more defined (although that is my interpretation since I have never truly figured out officially what a leading and trailing edge are. lol)
Overall I have to concur that the UN tubes take the Big6 to the next level. I would, now that I HAVE heard them, still say that they are not "transcendental".
Does it change my decision?
No. But it flatly tells me that if someone where looking for a new DAC and had access to these difficult to find (unless your audio uncle happens to blow your mind and have a matched set) tubes, that at about $2K less retail, the Big6 is a MUCH better deal then the Aeris. They are comparable in performance in every conceivable way. With the UN tubes, I liked the Big6 about 40% more then with the OEM tubes; and on certain types of music it clearly bests the Aeris.
But I still need to pick ONE. And I am sticking to my choice. This has nothing to do with tube vs solid state since they both provide SOTA performance and they actually sounded MORE similar with the UN tubes in the Big6 then with the OEM tubes. I guess its true that as you get closer to perfection, the gear starts to sound more and more similar.
I hope that satisfies everyone. Serendipity is a wonderful thing.
As to the thought that the Lampy has an inferior USB port that requires an external USB to SPDIF converter, I made the active decision that I am looking for a one box DAC solution and I don't want to deal with a separate USB to SPDIF converter, another digital cable AND another power cord expense; at least not while deciding on a DAC. Maybe after I have chosen one I will consider it, if it is not the OverDrive (since the overdrive has one built in). |
There are things one knows one knows; those that one knows one doesn't know; but most importantly there are those that one doesn't even know one doesn't know. I have come to be very hesitant to make assumptions when dealing with areas in that last category. Kernelbob, you are obviously not a true audiophile. We fearlessly make decisions for ourselves and provide counsel to others despite the absence of knowledge.... |
