Absolute top tier DAC for standard res Redbook CD

Matt, although it is nowhere near as constructive, I have a thread with 5,500,782 views. http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?aamps&1059180366&openmine&zzTbg&4&5#Tbg

"That was no typo. This dac was designed for a dedicated and chosen few with true zeal and audio endurance to scale this Mount Everest of digital reproduction."

Love your zeal Agear, 30,000 hrs of breakin? Truly designed for the full time listener or do you have the ability to move at warp speed to the future? Very amusing post man, I LOVE your passion! You MUST be the quintessential audiophile.

Matt, you busy?, whats cooking with the dacs, whats coming up for a report?

I did not know some sacd's cannot be ripped, why is that?

I have an Esoteric K-01. Love it! The reason I bought it was it can be a great DAC for computer playback AND a great disc spinner. I have a lot of SACD's that cannot be ripped so the player is essential.

And now, back to our regularly scheduled program (please!)

They were the pioneer cs- 901, these were out before pioneer came to america by a couple of months, I believe I sold them last year after I played with them for 6 months laughing at them trying to play music, I thought to myself, man, has audio speakers come along way!, LoL!

What about the 1973 pioneer Kabucki home stereo speakers, I owned some before, mint condition, sounded like crap, sold them to a vintage speaker collector for good money!, I'm not kidding a bit about this one, cheers.

Dang, I HEARD about that stock Pioneer DVD player...da bomb! LoL

Very funny Agear, awesome since of humor.

08-12-14: Joecasey
What's the rest of your system?

As you might expect, its formidable:

I have a dedicated listening in my parents basement that is approximately 13x 15 x 7 ft. Walls are cinderblock. Floors are concrete with a single shag rug, a wooden chair, and one naked lightbulb. In addition to my L7, I am running an unmodded Pioneer 535 DVD player as a transport, a highly modded Sansui AU-517 integrated that is the envy of my local audio society, and a pair vintage Pioneer CS-911As slung together with home depot grade zip cord and no-name ICs. I like to crank it to 100 dB and above for dedicated listening late at night, but the neighbors will often call the police. I have been told that you can hear from system from blocks away on a still night. This makes me proud and is honestly why I am in the hobby....

Fxxxxxx incredible!, Matt, that is the most views I have ever seen, you need to work for a cable brand or something, you know how to talk to folks and keep their interest, Your hired!, congrats matt for a successful thread, I enjoy it, thankyou for your reply, that number is Awsome to say the least, cheers to matt everyone!

08-11-14: Agear
08-11-14: Erikminer
30,000 hours to break in.. gotta be typo that's more than 3 freakin' years!
Erikminer (System | Threads | Answers | This Thread)

That was no typo. This dac was designed for a dedicated and chosen few with true zeal and audio endurance to scale this Mount Everest of digital reproduction.

What's the rest of your system?

Agear...love it!

63,097 views

matt, what is the view count now?, your last report was amazing!

08-11-14: Wisnon
Granny, this is not your Daddy's Lampi!!!

Lukasz took it to another level. i am not joking when I say I am jealous.
Find a way to audition one, even for the fun of it. You will be amused.

Don't give him any ideas. With the smoke coming out of his ears, I'll give him 2 months now and he will be singing, so relaxing ripping cds ... LOL!!!

Granny, this is not your Daddy's Lampi!!!

Lukasz took it to another level. i am not joking when I say I am jealous.
Find a way to audition one, even for the fun of it. You will be amused.

Agear, please let us know some initial impressions after 10,000 hours.

Thanks much.

Big7 is more like $11K retail, not $22K.

My L4 is still burning in after 20Khours…LoL, that is it keeps getting better with age.

Seriously, Lampis sound great after just 3 days burn in and keep getting better long after that.

I have heard the Big7 3 weeks ago in NYC and am officially jealous. AGear you da man.

08-11-14: Erikminer
30,000 hours to break in.. gotta be typo that's more than 3 freakin' years!
Erikminer (System | Threads | Answers | This Thread)

That was no typo. This dac was designed for a dedicated and chosen few with true zeal and audio endurance to scale this Mount Everest of digital reproduction.

Agear, if that was a joke then it was freakin awesome! I actually really laughed out loud. Very well delivered!

I can honestly say that $22-25K for a DAC is out of my price range.

30,000 hours to break in.. gotta be typo that's more than 3 freakin' years!

Just to clarify my previous post on the cost of the Vitus SCD-025, the 16,500 quoted was specified in GBP (British Pounds, not Euros.)

Melbguy1, I converted the $16,500 Euros to u.s. dollars, Thanks for the complete correction of the full retail of the SCD-025, cheers

Thanks Grannyring, I enjoy your post too, your post was a valid answer for sure.

08-11-14: Mattnshilp
Thanks Melbguy1, for bringing up a nice option. I'm sure some readers will definitely look into the SCD-025 with your suggestion. What is the retail?

08-11-14: Bill_k
Matt - I couldn't find confirmed US pricing but the SCD-025 sells for £16,500 in the UK which converts to ~$27,700 US.

YW Matt, here is a link to the VA price list in Euro's (current as at July, 2014); http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=7&ved=0CEEQFjAG&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dptrade.it%2Flistini%2Flistino_vitusaudio.pdf&ei=tA3pU-ijCpa48gWZ8YKABg&usg=AFQjCNEqxRO7wHh4QqYA59FfbJjhTT8gPg&bvm=bv.72676100,d.dGc&cad=rja. The SCD-025 is currently $19,000EUR with VAT which equates to around $25,500USD. The SCD-025 is currently the Signature Series dac. As Hans recently told me, they designed the SCD-025 essentially as a full Signature Series dac with a drive, albeit a heavily modified Phillips Pro 2 LF! And its fully modular architecture also permits the player to be converted to a Signature Series dac (minus drive) if VA release such a product in future, and indeed it has been designed with this possibility in mind. Also should updated modules become available in future, the player can be updated in the field by a competent audio engineer.

Btw, the earlier mentioned Vitus RD-100 is an absolutely terrific bargain at $9,500EUR (approx $12,713USD). It has true analogue inputs (no conversion to digital) and Vitus's relay-based volume control. It is also designed with a modular architecture like the Signature Series making it future proof.

correction, The Vitus SCD-025 Retail Euros converted to u.s. dolars is still alot of money, u.s. $22,083.92, cheers.

Hi Matt. First I would like to add my thanks and appreciation for your very interesting and enjoyable thread.

FYI. The Meitner MA-1 has no VC so it can only be run direct to amp by using a software-VC in a Sever Software, like A+. Also by using the VC in the Server software you would only be able to control the volume of PCM files and not DSD.

Speaking of the Meitner MA-1 (and all EMM/Meitner) they have just announced the release of a free Major Firmware Upgrade.
I had the opportunity to get an early release for my MA-1. I can say that the difference was well worth the wait and the improvements in sound are across the board and urge you to try an updated MA-1. Please keep in mind that there will be another Upgrade coming this Fall-Winter.

On a side note. As we both have the Veritas Amps I wanted to let you know that I asked Merrill to put the new Red Fuses by Synergistic Research into my Veritas Amps. I highly recommend them for the price vs performance to anyone. They add a refinement to the Veritas, it elevates them, not that they lacked for anything before. It is not hard to hear the added benefits it brings, more then subtle. I must say that this is the first fuse I have heard that it was not hard, if at all, to hear the differences/improvement.

Matt - the volume control is just the nature of the beast. It never goes completely to zero due to the technology used. There are internal jumpers that will get you closer though. I like it set the way it is because I don't want the volume to go up 12dB with only 10 degrees of knob rotation. I don't think its really an issue for you because you are using your preamp anyway.

Steve N.

Guido - its very simple. The D/A chip I use allows selection of three digital filters, one tuned for 44.1, one tuned for 96 and one tuned for 192. You can manually select these. The de-emphasis is standard on most DAC's but like the other filters, its automatically selected. On the Overdrive, you can manually select this filter as well. I have found it to be useful on a few older tracks, such as some Led Zeppelin and some Jimi Hendricks. If it sounds harsh and bright, sometimes it is because it has pre-emphasis.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio

One benefit of the mini is that you have a lot of choices about which software to use and how you implement memory play, upsampling, eq, etc.

IMO, too many options is the reason why so many tech challenged is having trouble with computer audio and reason Steve recommended Antipodes.

Audiolabyrinth,
I am curious to read Matt's impression of these fine DACs via the Criterion. What actually changes sonically with its insertion?
Charles,

sorry matt for getting a little off topic here, forgive me.

Thankyou Guidocorona for the Roland pricing, that was some great info on the differences of the Roland pre-amps as well.

Thanks Charles1dad, It's just like most of all of you, I am kinda tripping on all the money I am spending in this hobby right now, I do not deny your and grannyring's pre-amp is better than most direct to amp set-ups, However, not to get off the subject, buying cables at the level I bought into would be insane!, just one of my interconnects cost $15,950.00 retail, No, I am not that stupid, I paid $7,000.00 used for 1-meter balanced, even at that price, can you imagine the total of tring to keep the same level of performance in cables intact?, man, like I said, Re-morgage the house, who knows, I respect all of you here, I may bite the bullet and take the plunge into an active pre-amp one day, another thing, I only have cds, No need for a pre-amp currently with my set-up, well see charles what I might do in the near future, Happy listening.

I find the mac mini issue interesting, particularly since Matt's source is a Core Audio Modified Mac Mini with a linear power supply and I assume other modifications/optimizations. Since switching to a Mojo optimized mini with a linear PS, outboard HDD and internal SSD the sound of my system does not seem to lack for tonal density or dynamics. I have not heard the Antipodes units that Steve is talking about but if it were a year ago I might have gone that route for the $4K their mid-level unit costs. One benefit of the mini is that you have a lot of choices about which software to use and how you implement memory play, upsampling, eq, etc.

Audiolabyrinth,

How much does it cost to get better sound in a stereo system. $5,000 or $50,0000?
How much does is cost to get a better sounding turntable or dac?

Answer? Well that depends on what you're willing to spend and the sound you are trying to achieve.

This is what all Aphiles must answer for themselves.

Audiolabyrinth,
Grannyring's TRL DUDE or my Coincident Statement are both well south of 10K (much less) and both would be considered premium level performers IMO. Naturally between these two personal taste decides preference. You may not choose either compared to direct source to amplifier. As Grannyring noted, some will lean toward the direct sound, just depends on what presentation you are drawn to . I'd guess that Matt's Criterion preserves musical information and involvement he finds diminished or absent with direct source alternatives.
Charles,

I heard the Vitus RD-100 (dac + balanced line stage) while back in MN in a SOTA dedicated room fronted by Rockports, etc. Very good piece. Not as good as the Brinkman table but very good. MSRP is $14,000.

I received my Lampi L7 last Wed and am burning it in. Best digital I have owned or heard to date. Both PCM and DSD are sublime, but DSD reproduction takes it over the top. My previous reference point was the Light Harmonics DaVinci (albeit in a show setting). This is a true conversion experience for me in that I have always felt digital fell short (despite it being my primary medium). Paradoxical I know.

It takes about 30,000 hours to fully burn in, so I will report back then....

Matt - I couldn't find confirmed US pricing but the SCD-025 sells for £16,500 in the UK which converts to ~$27,700 US.

Hi all. I was including the DSD-S in my opinion about running direct. I listened to the DSD-S direct for about 20 min to completely firm up what I knew in the first 2 minutes.... I like my sound pumped through my Criterion better.

As always, my opinion, in my system. I make no speculation as to how it would sound with different gear or the same gear and different ears. I would suspect that those who like the clean, crisp, accuracy and dynamics of Meitner's gear would love running direct.

Thanks Melbguy1, for bringing up a nice option. I'm sure some readers will definitely look into the SCD-025 with your suggestion. What is the retail?

Hi Audiolabyrinth, Criterion used to list for $18.9K, but has completed production... The current Rowland flagship is Corus, listing for $14.9K.... The Capri S2 at $3,950 is also a wonderful linestage.... A little warmer than Corus, and supports an optional internal DAC card with SPDIF input.

G.

Charles1dad, How much money do I need to spend on an active pre-amp, $10,000.00 plus for a additional sound to deal with that degrades the signal by going through more circuit boards and cables?, I have found that cost alot, much, much, more money to get an active pre-amp to be sublime in sound, LOL!, ask matt how much money the criterion cost?, I know a state of the art active can do wonders, Re- morgage the house!

08-10-14: Mattnshilp
The Vitus looks amazing and I'm sure it sounds it as well. Congrats. Feel free to post some thoughts on its sound here as well.

Thanks for your comments Matt. The SCD-025 takes the sound of cd's to a place heretofore unknown in the digital domain. Especially in concert with the SIA-025 i've heard this combo sound haunting. At that point i'll probably post a system thread, but will leave an in-depth review until the 250hr mark.

Bill,(Grannyring)
Yes, there have been "many" threads on this topic already so I wasn't trying to resurrect it again, but Matt is clearly quite emphatic about this issue. He misses his Criterion very much!
Charles,

Oh my this whole single volume control pot, attenuator, LDR etc... vs active preamp thing. What Charles and Matt say times 1000. I have heard so many integrated units that claim to dispence with a preamp that I may not be able to count anymore. The gap in sound quality from those compared to my active tube preamp is so wide that an active is an absolute must.

As Matt and Charles say, this is true for us and our ears...for us. If you like the preampless sound, then great and it is wonderful to save all that money. I wish I could.

I have a Romulus and love it with my tube preamp. I have tried LDR's and transformer based attenuators that are touted to be the best and they take a far back seat in sound quality compared to my active ... to my ears.

No 3 inch attenuator board, LDR, or any other type of volume pot alone can compare to a full out active tube preamp in my experience.

The sound of an integrated volume is clean, fast, detailed, vibrant etc.... Every one I have heard shares these same great qualities for sure. Fact is they all sound like they were cut from the same cloth when compared to my active. All in the same "family" of sound if you will. Straight wire with gain and all that stuff. I can see why folks like them. Like all things audio it comes down to preferences in the way we like to experience our music. That's all. For folks like Charles and I and many others, a full blown active is prefered and no matter that form of tiny, stand alone attenuator is thrown at us.

I suppose Aesthetix even knows this as they and many of their customers certainly like the sound of their new, active tube preamp better than the 3 inch board in the Romulus. $1000 vs over $10,000, but many choose the more expensive Aesthetix option for "sound" reasons.

Hi Audiolabyrinth,
Perhaps I misunderstood Matt, but he wrote that he's done listening to DACs "without" his preamp (Criterion). So I assumed he has been listening via the DACs volume control up to this point. By the way if a DAC's VC were to better an active preamplifier I'd be the first to celebrate that achievement, so far, no go in my experience. Premium active preamplifiers are mandatory for me. So I can relate to Matt's desire to use his Criterion. He wants better sound quality.
Charles,

charles1dad, Hi, Matt has not listened to the volume control in a Aesthetix Romulas or Pandora signature, and, as far as I know, he has not listened to the volume control in the APL DSD-S player, I do hope he does give some thoughts about listening to the volume control of the APL Dac, Alex deserves some exsposure about his volume control he is raving about, who knows, it may turn out to be a good one, charles, I understand your position with active pre-amps, my interest is with what Matt has to say about alot of these modern day volume controls on todays digital, Happy Listening Charles1dad.

Matt,
Given all the discussion concerning these very latest volume controls and their technical advantages, it's interesting that you still prefer an active preamplifier. I'm not at all surprised by your choice. Ears are wonderful if you trust them.
Charles,