Schiit Yggy. Unbelievable sound and value. Use with Sonore microrendu for streaming. Nothing will beat this at any price.
Absolute top tier DAC for standard res Redbook CD
Hi All.
Putting together a reference level system.
My Source is predominantly standard 16/44 played from a MacMini using iTunes and Amarra. Some of my music is purchased from iTunes and the rest is ripped from standard CD's.
For my tastes in music, my high def catalogues are still limited; so Redbook 16/44 will be my primary source for quite some time.
I'm not spending DCS or MSB money. But $15-20k retail is not out of the question.
Upsampling vs non-upsampling?
USB input vs SPDIF?
All opinions welcome.
And I know I need to hear them, but getting these ultra $$$ DAC's into your house for an audition ain't easy.
Looking for musical, emotional, engaging, accurate , with great dimension. Not looking for analytical and sterile.
Putting together a reference level system.
My Source is predominantly standard 16/44 played from a MacMini using iTunes and Amarra. Some of my music is purchased from iTunes and the rest is ripped from standard CD's.
For my tastes in music, my high def catalogues are still limited; so Redbook 16/44 will be my primary source for quite some time.
I'm not spending DCS or MSB money. But $15-20k retail is not out of the question.
Upsampling vs non-upsampling?
USB input vs SPDIF?
All opinions welcome.
And I know I need to hear them, but getting these ultra $$$ DAC's into your house for an audition ain't easy.
Looking for musical, emotional, engaging, accurate , with great dimension. Not looking for analytical and sterile.
4,489 responses Add your response
I have run a few DAC's in my system and have owned the OSDE/SE. I use a turntable still, so I need a preamp, but I, like most, wanted to hear the differences. I have never chosen driving directly. I lose a bit of dynamics and the sound staging can lose a bit of coherency. I use an Ayre AX-5/Twenty and the pre on that thing is nearly as good as the KX-R/Twenty. I like the preamp in my system still. If someone is chasing between a preamp or running directly, I think that the consensus is a pre will sound better, but if you take that extra 10k for a pre (just throwing out a number) and throw that at a better DAC like the OSDX and Final Drives, you will never even know the difference and you will have a much better sounding system than using say the ODSE/SE with that great pre. That way you can get a preamp later one and upgrade the sound even more. So many ways to go and so many great DAC's on the market right now. We all hear differently and this thread really shows that. Thanks for everyone's input. It's been a wonderful guide for many of us and is appreciated. |
Hi Guido, Your comments remind me of what I hear.... Aeris by itself yielded a subtle amount of greater resolution compared to having Criterion in the chainreminds me of removing my preamp and using one of my passives, either a Goldpoint passive preamp or Endler attenuators direct to amp, and with Criterion in the chain, you would experience a subtly warmer presentation that admittedly is quite intoxicatingwhich is similar to what I hear through my preamp, which is a no gain, buffered unit with external choke power supply and Shallco discrete resistor volume control constructed using Audio Note tantalum resistors. The main difference from your situation is my preamp doesn't add noise. It seems most here end up preferring a preamp in their systems, including those who have used a volume control implemented by changing the reference voltage of the dacs, such as with the ODSE. One reviewer, Steven Plaskin at AudioStream, slightly preferred having the Ayre KX-R preamp in his system to running the ODSE direct to his Ayre MX-R amps, even with the Final Drive buffers in-line. Not using the volume direct to amps approach would make a jump to the Adagio less attractive, even though it is said to sound better than the Pavane because of the significantly increased reference voltage and doubling of the number of dacs. I really need to find one to audition to find out for sure how much better it sounds and whether I could live with it direct to my amps. For now, I will be happy to replace the mac mini I have been listening to for the past couple of weeks with my fully upgraded Antipodes DX, which arrives on Friday, with Roon and the option to use the newly added S/PDIF output instead of USB. Kudos to Antipodes for supporting existing customers with upgrades and for staying at the forefront of server technology. |
Hi Mitch2, currently I am running Aeris directly into the Rowland M925 monoblocks. In olden days, I ran the Rowland Criterion linestage between DAC and amps.
Which arrangement is "better"? The answer is... It depends... Immediately followed by... I might be persuaded to change my mind, because things are achangin'....
First of all, what I observed in the past....
* Aeris by itself yielded a subtle amount of greater resolution compared to having Criterion in the chain. * With Aeris only, there seems to be deep silence from the speakers when music is not playing, vs a very low level of hash when Criterion was in the chain... To perceive the actual noise caused by Criterion, you had to place your ear 6 inches or less from a tweater. * However, with Criterion in the chain, you would experience a subtly warmer presentation that admittedly is quite intoxicating.
Having gone back and forth for several months with the two configurations, I felt I prefered the presentation without Criterion.
Having said the above, Rowland has now started to ship the ultra-capacitor based Power Storage Unit (PSU)... Essentially this is an additional full chassis component that can be applied to replace both the external power supply of the Corus linestage (audio circuit identical to the now withdrawn Criterion) as well as the power supply of Aeris... Meaning that a single PSU can power Corus and Aeris simultaneously. Essentially PSU serves pure clean DC 24/7 for compatible line components and takes them completely off the AC grid. There are two banks of ultra-caps inside PSU... While one charges up from the AC line, the other one is offline from the grid, and serves DC to the devices downstream. When the bank of ultra-caps serving devices becomes depleted, the role is switched seamlessly, and the process is repeated... The answer is no, the flipping event is not audibly perceivable.
I have not heard PSU yet, but according to all reports I have heard this far the result of PSU on Corus and Aeris might be quite impressive in terms of subtlety, quiet delivery, image and stage, and resolution... I guess the main benefit is being completely off-grid, while not having the problem of reduced dynamic agility caused by the slower transient handling of batteries.
So, now I am thinking that a combination of Aeris + Corus + PSU might outperform Aeris alone... Probably even quieter than Aeris, and perhaps with the added grace of having Corus in the audio path.
Saluti, Guido |
Sorry for the infrequent posts. Been crazy and waiting for my ODSX to come to compare the Emm and Empical for a final shootout.... Mitch2 - I have run every single DAC I have tried in this thread direct and never once preferred it. My Burmester preamp is very very good and has always maintained sonic integrity, detail and accuracy while adding a sense of dynamic scale, dimensional depth and realism that vanishes when I run direct. But that's my system. Guido has been running his Aeris to his amps direct for quite some time. But that DAC was designed specifically for Rowland Amps to do just that. So everything was fine tuned from output and input gains/impedance/etx to make it work. I think it's an exceptionally unique scenario. |
Guido, are you running your Aeris directly to your amps or are you using a preamp in-between? If you tried it both ways, would you share any comments about the relative strengths and weaknesses of each approach? Sunseekerespana, to your questions: Is the no gain pre-amp a passive or have valves as a buffer?The preamp is buffered using solid state devices, very similar to this; http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/smcaudio/vre1.html I use a passive (pot and source switch only). It works really week, but the thing to watch is the DAC has;My current DAC, the Pavane, has an output voltage of 4V, which is more than enough to fully drive the amplifiers. 2 The output impedance is low (less than 500 ohms) If it is higher along with capacitance in your interconnects you may get loss of dynamics and bass roll off.The buffering reduces output impedance and eliminates loss of bass or dynamics. 3 You can sit the DAC and Passive Pre very close to the Power AmplifierThis is always good practice when possible and particularly with passives. My ICs from preamp to amplifiers are I to 1.5M. When I compare my buffered preamp with a passive preamp I own (Goldpoint) I never use longer than 1M ICs. I also have Endler attenuators, which connect directly to the amplifiers and actually sound pretty good. I am curious about the variable voltage volume control in DACs like the Overdrive SE/SX, Aeris and now Metrum's Adagio, and whether those have any negative effects (relative to usking a preamp) on things like bass impact, dynamics, staging or other desirable sonic traits. I was worried about these issues when I went to a zero-gain buffered preamp but it seems to be the best of both worlds with excellent bass and dynamics plus the clarity/purity passives are known for. |
Yes, varying the reference current in the DAC chip is a wonderful and musical way to implement volume control in a DAC, if not a particularly new one. The Rowland Aeris implemented this very design as early as 2010... And Aeris has cured me from DACophilia nervosa... At least for the time being *Grins!* G. |
I look forward to hearing whether the DAC with volume direct approach will sound better than sending the signal through the AN tantalum resistors in the volume control of my zero gain, buffered preamp. It would also be fun to try the Adagio with and without the Final Drive. Is the no gain pre-amp a passive or have valves as a buffer? I use a passive (pot and source switch only). It works really week, but the thing to watch is the DAC has; 1 Enough gain 2 The output impedance is low (less than 500 ohms) If it is higher along with capacitance in your interconnects you may get loss of dynamics and bass roll off. 3 You can sit the DAC and Passive Pre very close to the Power Amplifier I used to have a very good quality tubed pre-amplifier, but without it is faster, more dynamic, more focussed. |
I have been pretty happy with Metrum's Pavane, which bests all the DACs and disc players I have owned or auditioned in my system. I am interested in Metrum's new Adagio DAC, which reportedly goes beyond being simply a Pavane with volume control. The volume control on the Adagio is implemented by changing the reference voltage of the dacs, which seems similar to the technology used by Empirical Audio for their volume control. Metrum has modified the DAC boards and increased the maximum reference voltage by 3 times resulting in a reported noise floor of -155 dB and improved linearity. The Adagio uses 30VA transformers for each channel (double the Pavane) and 16 ladder dacs instead of the 8 used in the Pavane. I look forward to hearing whether the DAC with volume direct approach will sound better than sending the signal through the AN tantalum resistors in the volume control of my zero gain, buffered preamp. It would also be fun to try the Adagio with and without the Final Drive. |
Ketch, thanks so much. I'm not surprised at all. The OSDE/SE is such an exceptional DAC to begin with. Steven shared some of the upgrades he did and who time consuming they are. It's a labor of love, that's for sure. For those who want to get finally jump on board, getting an upgraded OSDX used is awesome as you can save a few dollars and enjoy a GREAT sounding DAC. Very cool. |
Getting a demo of the CH Precision C1 DAC in a week at home. I will compare it to my Audio Note DAC 5 Special V2. Massively different designs so should be interesting. I also have the AMR DP-777 DAC / Pre-amp which has an R-2R chip and for the money it is bang on, very smooth and non digital. I have to admit I am an Audio Note fanboy but willing to be diverted if another DAC sounds right to me. |
Although currently i am not using Steve's volume control, it is designed in such a way to present the information in bit perfect form nor loose dynamics in the output stage. The old Meitner Museatex bidat had a similar design. ODSE > Final Drive > Allnic A6000 mono blocks was far superior to ODSE > Allnic L3000 > Allnic A6000, as if wool blankets three layers thick were removed from the speakers providing more depth, detail, improved clarity and imaging. The Allnic retails for $13,000. I since replaced the Allnic L3000 with the $23,000 L5000 DHT, which I purchased used for $10,000. The sound was different but of a comparable quality. With a DHT/Transformer based system, there is limited benefit adding the final drives. I believe Matt, also with a high quality pre-amplifier found no benefit. I have not tried this comparison again with the ODSX, but will report back when I am able to give it the focus it needs. Per Steve's recommendations I am trying a loom of Antipodes Reference cables. My system likes balanced cables better and I will sell off my High Fidelity Ultimate Reference Loom. One of my amps gets a 60/120 Hz low noise with balanced cable while using the VH Audio Plasmatron. It follows the amp, but could be the balanced cable design. I believe the Plasmatron adds significant benefit to Steve's DAC. Matt tried his on my recommendation and didn't like it. So eventually I will see where things settle out. This is my long winded answer. The Final Drives are passive using quality transformers. For the price, I have yet to see anything better. His DAC plus Final drive to amplifier is an excellent combination and definitely a reasonable price. For me buying and selling gear often is a money losing proposition and getting the sound I desire was met with this consequence, more so than I care to admit. Through this process, I learned to trust Steve's ear. In hindsight, I wish I invested in the ODSX with Ethernet input/Findal Drive combination and focused my resources elsewhere. This would negate the need for a server, preamp and allow yourself to focus on an amplifier or speakers, if needed. |
Hello Ketcham, I am glad you are enjoying your SX DAC. I am curious whether you are using the DAC’s volume control and/or Steve’s Final Drive, or do you run your DAC to a preamp? Have you tried either (the volume control or the Final Drive) and if so what did you think of them? Thanks for sharing any insights. |
Greetings Everyone. I wanted to update you regarding Steve Nugent's Empirical Overdrive Diamond SX with the
optional internal galvanic isolated Ethernet direct I2S converter cpu. I
have run the is unit 24/7 for now over 1000 hours and I must admit the caps
needed this time to break in. This will be the first dac that I felt
needed over 6 weeks of almost continuous play to break in. However, this
is one instance where patience paid dividends.
The chassis is no different that the ODSE. The faceplate now states SX in place of SE and the knob has a very subtle recessed diamond. Nice touch but for those who upgrade their SE to SX, I would keep your old faceplate and save money. The rear panel is the same. Mine had a manual cutout where the Ethernet input replaced the USB. This does bring me to another point: For those of you who will upgrade, the ODSE/X run hot. The morphology of the circuit boards change and this will affect the soldering. I highly recommend you pay the extra nominal fee and use a virgin board. Longevity is essential. While I am sure Steve will service these units well into retirement, save yourself the headache.
Those of us who owned these units before know these units run hot. While breaking in, I ran the unit in my office on my desk, which is quartz composite. The unit ran hot, up to 208* over the Ethernet board. Steve assured me this is not an issue. When I placed in my system on Bubinga wood, the temperature dropped by 50* while being relocated in direct sunlight and reset to high-output line out. Surfaces matter, ventilation matters. I have run this dac hard without failures on any level.
The Ethernet DNLA/UPnP is simpler, more robust, and strait forward. Unlike USB, Ethernet packets of data are checked for errors and packets with errors are resent. The more I read about USB implementation, more validating why I despised it and found it universally inferior to AES/EBU. ROON uses its own RAAT protocol in place of DNLA/UPnP. The third party company which designed the Ethernet to I2S converter CPU chip has no interest in RAAT. ROON states they will implement DNLA but with no timeline. Because of this current incompatibility, I have not pursued ROON at this juncture. One manufacture who uses this CPU has figured a work around and was able to implement ROON RAAT. However this was not to an I2S conversion. Through Bubble UPnP and Linn Kazoo (both free) I am able to stream Tidal without any issue. Linn Kazoo is not on the same league as ROON or even Tidal’s own controller. To say it plainly, the user interface sucks.
There are many third party controllers. Some are free, while some are cheap to purchase. They all work well, and I give credit to this third party manufacturer. Not all Ethernet dacs/Renderers have this level of performance. Please note: I find those controllers that send a file direct from NAS to the DAC without processing sound better. Those who have interest in this topic please PM me for more detail and discussion. I would love to learn where others have found success and discovered absolute ‘do not’s’.
I wish to commend Steve on a well designed dac. Thank you for reigniting my passion for this hobby. This last year has been somewhat frustrating for me. High-end components do not necessarily play well together and this certainly has been a journey. When my wife leaves a concert and says that sounded as good as listening at home, she is complementing the venue…and Steve the credit belongs to you. |
Guys, the show at Audio connections on Sat was a ton of fun. Michael from Audiostream showed up and we spoke most of the day (sorry Michael, lol). Alex from Ayre showed off the QX5 and Roon. First time for each for me. I really enjoyed Roon and will incorporate it into my new digital set up I'm thinking. Ketch, we NEED to speak, lol. No true impressions of the QX since it only had 30 hours on it at best. It DID warm up and by 6pm is was sounding surprisingly good for that few hours on it. I was enjoying the music, where earlier in the day I couldn't listen. This is WHY you can't judge gear until it's fully broken in. I heard the bones of this thing though and I can tell that it's a winner that punches well above it's price of 9k. Ten digital inputs of every type. Streamer built in and easy to set up and use. I honestly like that, plus it's a good looking unit that is built in true Ayre fashion. Flawless construction and solid throughout. I got to spend a ton of time with Alex Brinkmann as we all went out to eat afterwards too. A really fun day. Alex spoke about the special digital and analog filtering they are able to do by working with ESS on the DAC. The unit implements their new double diamond analog stage as well as double filtering of the RF on the incoming power. The unit has a very very low noise floor and they have optimized each of the ten inputs. Even the satellite TV will sound better according to Alex and I have no reason to not believe him. He's very open and honest about his gear. Even the weaknesses of some pieces. he likes to get feedback so they can keep engineering better products and improve what they have. I was very impressed as you can all tell. The sound of the headphone single ended jack with 0 hours breaking was balanced as heck. It's basically the award winning Codex headphone amp with the best parts Ayre could find. With the money to play with for the headphone jack, they decided to make a world class headphone amp that has both balanced as well as 1/4" and 3.5mm single ended inputs. Those of you who own a source and DAC/headphone amp will LOVE this piece. I think it could become one of THOSE DACS as it will be an all in one piece for your personal audio system. You can just stream Tidal or Qbuz (however it's spelled) and call it a day with a pair of LCD3/4's or Hifiman 1000's or the new Focal Utopias. I can't wait to get mine and break it in. Just wanted to share what I have for now. Color me duly impressed so far. |
Sorry...not really trying to force any particular point, other than I have found a single box player with really good power delivery, ancillaries and interconnects can give you world class sound. I do understand however that the world has moved on from CD's....for that I have a digital module in my amp. Most of my music has been collected over decades and represents a vast array of material that is no longer available...certainly not as a digital download. My main system is for serious listening only anyway....no background crap or social schmultz! |
Dave, I get it, I really do, but when did I ever mention cables that cost that much? Also, this whole thread is about the BEST sounding redbook DAC not which 12k CD player is nice. As for detail, you have to have detail and it needs to be delivered in proper time in order to get the best sound. Again, that's the whole premise of the thread. I was and am not trying to be snarky in any way. I appreciate great sounding systems that aren't costly, but you referenced a 12CD player that is 3k more than my new Ayre QX5 and it doesn't do nearly as much. I had two posters here ask me what your post meant and what you are trying to say. I'm not sure I know either. not trying to be difficult, just trying to understand your point in context to what Matt has been posting about. Thanks. |
I'm sure you have had success ctsooner, but I can't afford more $4K power cords or $12K interconnects. If I'm missing anything it most likely isn't musical information....any more atmosphere and low level detail will put me on the level of Quantum Music! Growing up I was enthralled with a Sansui Receiver, Bozak speakers and a Garrard/Sure source lashed up with zip wire! I'm definitely good to go. Happy listening:) |
Single box better??? No, not at all. My Empirical Audio and server sounded much better than any one box I've ever heard. I'll be very honest right now and I know I'm not the only one who feels this year, but I like the sound of the Empirical with my current server better than the DCS Rossini. I'm not a DCS fan, but I'm familiar with many of the CD players or CD players with digital inputs and none of them have sounded as good as many of the DAC's I've heard. The Krell was out in 2012 and maybe earlier. It's very dated right now. The Ayre QX5 is using a chip that hasn't even been fully released to others yet and it got custom filters just for Ayre. The ODSE/SE I just sold is unreal and the soon to be released ODSX will be THAT much better I'm sure. Bricasti M1 SE is also updated and outstanding. There are way too many great sounding DAC's in all price ranges. As for servers, there are the custom made ones that fix all the problems that CD players have had. Sorry, just can't buy into a CD player right now. BTW, I have heard that Krell on many occasions and never was able to warm up to it, but that's my ear. I'm happy that you love it and will never want for any other digital again. |
Who will be at Audio Connections in Verona, NJ next Saturday the 30th for the Northeast premier of the Ayre QX5/Twenty Digital front end/DAC? They will set it up with the Vandersteen 7 mk 2 and the Ayre ref gear. Everyone is invited. Johnny Rutan who owns the place has been mentioned in the last two Stereophile articles on Jazz musicians and their systems. Just spoke to Billy Drummand who is the jazz drummer they wrote about last month will try to be there for a bit. let me know if you can make it. If so, I'm the one using a rollator (walker with wheels). Please stop by and say hello. I have the QX5 on order and can't wait. Alex from Ayre will be there to show off his new DAC. Can't wait. hope to see folks there. Just post here if you can or may make it. I'm hoping that Alex from Ayre will be bringing his Melco N1A NAS with him. It will be interesting to listen to this brand new DAC, that just started to ship to dealers this week. I'd love to meet a bunch of you guys so let me know if you can make it. Pete |
The review on Audio Stream today is a must read folks. All about some of the posters here using optical runs, converters etc.... Had a great convo with Steve tonight and can't wait for some of you guys to start getting thoughts to keyboard on the ODSX run in ethernet mode. Matt must be drooling about now waiting for his, lol.... |
dcs could be an option at your price. also esoteric, emm labs and I have heard the moon 780d dac/streamer which is very good, new chord dave excellent. lots of very good choices for you at the price point you are looking. really like what I read about the ps audio but dealer friend believes moon for example has much better output stage/sound. good luck |
I"ll get the Ayre, but there is a short list of DAC's I'm going to want to try and listen to before I decide to keep it. Most will have to be used for me to afford, but with the every evolving world of digital, that shouldn't be a problem. Bricasti's, the new ODSX, EMM, Ayre's 5 series and a few others that are also from small companies like Steve's. There really are so many great options right now. Dealers can no longer afford to just carry a DAC line because they have the amp line. I really feel that they will need to carry three high end DAC's and a few more of the mid priced ones. That's not to say that analog is dead or anything like that. I still love putting on a record, but my money goes into digital right now and used records that I can usually get for under $2. |
ctsooner- I agree. Ayre is fantastic. While I do have limited experience, I have found Ayre to be the most enjoyable DAC, befitting of my musical tastes/preferences and wallet. I was able to compare to dB Labs Tranquility SE, Auralic and ifi iDSD. Hope to try an Empirical Audio on day! Read great things. Cheers Thanks for great thread question mattnshilp- No right answer, but lots of options |
Ketch, I wasn't able to send a PM. Didn't see how. Matt is sending my phone and email. Thanks. Looking forward. I've heard the DCS stacks a few times in various systems. They were very very good. I liked the Trinity a lot when I've heard it. Better than the Berk Ref for me by a fair amount, but the system I heard it in was exceptional and set up properly in a great room. Heard DAVE in the city and it was good, but I hated the speakers (over 100k I think) and that ruined it, but I could tell the DAC was very good and a top contender. Can't wait for the AyreQX5/twenty, but that's still only their mid level so I'll take that into consideration. I'm expecting a lot, but I can't see it in the same ball park as the OSDX. I should have just kept the OSDE and begged Steve to do the upgrade for me, lol. Didnt' think he would. Live and learn. |
Regarding the Chord DAVE, it is reported to be exceptional with PCM possibly even setting a new standard regarding its natural recovery of depth and decay. However its performance level with DSD is not at the same level, and to maximize its sound quality requires a reboot of the DAC which takes about 20 seconds. So playlists with a combination of PCM and DSD files are not well suited to optimal playback with the DAVE DAC. For users with all PCM files it may be the ultimate DAC solution. |
There are currently only 4 DAC’s that I would love to hear in my room: DCS Rossini, Trinity DAC, Dual Mono TotalDAC and the Chord DAVE. If anyone has the ability to help me hear any of these in my listening room please let me know. I am going to do some research on the Ethernet solution. I look forward to Ketcham’s email as well. I asked Steve of Empirical Audio and he said that "I just open Jriver and select audio and its there. Nothing more to do". |
CT- PM me and I will email both you and Matt together. Matt has my email address. Your goal is to have quality, simplicity, reliability and versatility. Fiber optic is just an alternative to wired Ethernet. It is much cheaper than moderate priced ethernet cable and it provides galvanic isolation. Like your power lines the Ethernet cable carries other currents that mess up digital electronics, especially the DAC clocks. The switch power supplies are part of this issue. In your situation, wireless will not have enough range to reliably drop two or more floors. Wireless will limit high resolution files both DSD and PCM. Optical can run adjacent to electrical cable, whereas low voltage cables need to be 18" away, depending on local code. When they cross ideally they would cross at perpendicular angles. Second option is to have two independent systems: Comcast provides two accounts: two modems and two independent networks. While this may decrease certain noise perse, you would give up versatility and create some redundancy. Although two NAS systems would provide some backup. To run cable would not be too expensive and you can find someone to do it for you for reasonable price. In your situation, I sense you are running dedicated power. I would run fiber down to your listening room. From there the options are many and easily changed when needed--especially important as digital audio is rapidly evolving. A newer NAS (not my generation NAS) has the advantage of negating the need of a server or separate CORE processor running ROON. I however do not see a sonic advantage at the moment since your NAS is a large source of electrical pollution. I am also researching HQPlayer and if that program will process files then use UPnP/DNLA type protocol. I am uncertain if a ROON>HQPlayer will process then send by RAAT (Roon Advanced Audio Transport) codec to RAAT capable Ethernet units. My understanding thus far- HQ player will process (by server) and send by USB to a USB dac only. For clarity ROON, RAAT and HQ Player are new to me. Does the new EMM dac have Ethernet? I’d rather not distract from the overall thread. I will post any valuable and succinct solutions when appropriate. |
Ketch, that thread is a bear for a novice like me. I don't fully understand what an optical network is and why I need it. I don't have any ethernet cable runs in the townhouse. My main system is on the second floor and my bedroom system is on the first floor. I have a full basement where I'm wanting Comcast (when I get it installed next month or so) to bring everything into the basement as the coax runs are all set up there going to each room in the house. I will most probable have the Comcast modem and router (most likely Apple Time Machine) running in one of the upstairs bedrooms as that will be my hub as the noise won't affect my listening room. I was hoping to just install the new QNAP 471 NAS with the router and use the Airport Extreme from both systems to the NAS that would host Roon and hopefully HQPlayer. I was told that Roon will help the sound quality vs using a local drive (i.e. Aurender or Melco) directly to the DAC and not worrying about my second system as it already streams Tidal so I don't care if it's on a network or not. I can afford the N100H and possibly even a used N10 Aurender. The problem is that it won't be Roon and if it's the N100h, I believe it would have to the a usb connection. If I only care about sq first and I only really need to have my main system being fed, what are your personal thoughts as to which products I should be looking at and how should I set them up? Right now I'm seem to have a Melco N1A running as a NAS only (Roon is working hard on trying to get their core to run on the Melco's OS) and then a NUC for Roon and HQPlayer, or an Aureneder directly into the DAC or getting the Qnap and setting it up the way they say to run Roon off of it. Anything I've missed so far? Any thoughts are appreciated. Matt, what set up are you looking at doing? |
I liked the Trinity when I heard it, but honestly, it didn't blow me away as some of the higher price DAC's have. JMHO, but I have a friend who had one last year and sold it. Not even sure what he's running now, but it may the the full DCS stack as he was going on and on about how much he liked it. Ketch, thanks so much for those links. Time for me to start learnin bout new wave digital again....thought I had been doing this over the last two years, but I guess not enough, lol. |
Look at "optical network configurations" under computeraudiophile, network subforum. Without question, cheaper and provides galvanic isolation. It is a very long thread so start in chunks toward the end.
Optical Network Configurations
There is also a new thread on how to run Roon from your NAS: Official Roon Build for Synology and QNAP A more formal article is forthcoming by Chris C. Matt, when you are ready email me and I will help you through that process. It is no harder than USB setup and in some ways easier. |
Thanks for sharing Matt. I knew how busy you have been and feel badly but you are doing special work for others and that's commendable in a BIG WAY. I too in recent days have been talked into Ethernet with Roon and possibly HQPlayer. Not to hijack, but would love to know others thought of HQPlayer also as it's ultimate digital. Matt, I have decided (well 90%) to set up a QNAP 471 NAS. It has the set up on the QNAP site. The first slot as I said above if for the SSD that runs Roon. Bay 2 and 3 are for the 6TB storage run in Raid 1. The 4th bay is to be set up to automatically do a weekly back up of the 6TB WD green or red hard drives. That will all be set up in the room that has the router and then I'll figure out how to install a run directly to the stereo system or I'll do the wireless set up with the Apply extreme deal like I've seen in so many high end audio stores. If someone else has a better idea many of us are more than willing to listen. Thanks. |
Ketcham - thanks SO much for your post. That cinched it and I told Steve I'm going for the Ethernet port. Thanks for the advise. Im clueless as to how to set up a system Ethernet driven. Can you advise? I have Roon; it'd be awesome if you can make that work. Its inconceivable, but I'm just going down today to really listen to my DA2 for the first time. I'll report when I can. It's been THAT busy. |
Pennsy- read the thread name - "Absolute Top Tier DAC " So I wanna go pretty damn high!!! 😜 Many system is an ultimate reference in a custom and professionally designed room. My goal is to extract every nuance out of my system I can. There is no limit. Period. And I'm practically there!!! PS Audio is very good but can't play with the reference level products. A mustang GT is very fast but a Ferrari is in a different league. It's all a matter of extremes. And I crossed the line of insanity years ago! |