@jwm, I can recommend Aqvox for a switch. I’m not sure what to recommend as far as routers, but the switch makes a big improvement.
Absolute top tier DAC for standard res Redbook CD
Hi All.
Putting together a reference level system.
My Source is predominantly standard 16/44 played from a MacMini using iTunes and Amarra. Some of my music is purchased from iTunes and the rest is ripped from standard CD's.
For my tastes in music, my high def catalogues are still limited; so Redbook 16/44 will be my primary source for quite some time.
I'm not spending DCS or MSB money. But $15-20k retail is not out of the question.
Upsampling vs non-upsampling?
USB input vs SPDIF?
All opinions welcome.
And I know I need to hear them, but getting these ultra $$$ DAC's into your house for an audition ain't easy.
Looking for musical, emotional, engaging, accurate , with great dimension. Not looking for analytical and sterile.
Putting together a reference level system.
My Source is predominantly standard 16/44 played from a MacMini using iTunes and Amarra. Some of my music is purchased from iTunes and the rest is ripped from standard CD's.
For my tastes in music, my high def catalogues are still limited; so Redbook 16/44 will be my primary source for quite some time.
I'm not spending DCS or MSB money. But $15-20k retail is not out of the question.
Upsampling vs non-upsampling?
USB input vs SPDIF?
All opinions welcome.
And I know I need to hear them, but getting these ultra $$$ DAC's into your house for an audition ain't easy.
Looking for musical, emotional, engaging, accurate , with great dimension. Not looking for analytical and sterile.
4,487 responses Add your response
George I'm using the Netgear AC-1200 as a local router attached to the Netgear GS105 switch. I'm still having connection issue problems with high res and dsd. Are there better routers out there that may solve my problem. The switch was never set up as a network; I just added it to my router and turned it on. |
btw Matt, the Trina are not intended for amplifiers. possibly the reason for the flabby bass. not sure if you tried them only on sources or preamps by themselves. when I read your comments last week somehow I missed that detail. if you still have them give that a try. if you did then we just move on. i continue to be very impressed by what they do in my system, where they are under my -3- Select II boxes plus under both my Tripoint units, the Elite and Troy Sig. every system context is unique with tweaks for sure. |
Hi everyone. Benjamin Zwickel, owner of Mojo Audio. My primary goal in engineering DACs is to optimize them for Red Book, since it is the format that comprises the majority of all recorded music available today. One of my customers told me about this thread and suggested I loaned you guys one of our Mystique v3 DACs to review. As some of you may already know, we exhibited at two shows last year, AXPONA and RMAF, and our exhibits received "Best Sound" and "Best in Show" from TAS, as well as "Star Component" and "Product of the Year" from Audiophilia, and quite a few flattering mentions from other audiophile publications. http://www.mojo-audio.com/digital-to-analog-converters/ Please contact me through our website and I’ll make arrangements to loan you a demo unit. I would be quite interested in your impressions. ~ Benjamin |
I finally installed my Environmental Protection EP-2500 surge suppressor and EP-2750 ground filters. I’ve had them since I built the room just sitting in boxes, and finally motivated myself to pull the circuit panel and re-wire it. They are hard wired into the circuit breaker box. Gonna give it all a day or two to settle and then listen. I’m hoping for an even lower noise floor and more depth of soundstage.. 👍🏻 |
Quite a few new videos up on my YouTube channel for those that are watching.... https://youtu.be/KU6FcOSJjTA |
Great observations Matt. Thanks for doing that. I hope that we can also get the HRS footers to see if the extra price also means better sound. Sometimes, as well know, it actually does, but not always. What often looks like the same materials or the same implementation isn't. As we have said, the Stillpoints and HRS hard footers are usually better than the others out there to many folks who have actually done head to head comps. All too often we read posters or dealers telling us that they have a giant killer etc.. and they really may not since they only know what they sell and they use the words the company wants them to use. That's teh cool thing about what you are doing. You really don't have a dog in the fight unless it's something you have already owned. You may want to like your's better, but I also know that you are one of the few who can separate ownership and thinking your's is better. Wiht footers or platforms, you also have to take into consideration the stands you use them on etc... As you have already posted, there is no be all end all here and folks need to get these devices in their own systems to see which they like best. |
I Googled the Cantata to learn about it. The Ethernet is used as a method to extend the range of USB (using pont neuf), so this not really Ethernet DLNA or other protocols. Even when a router is used, the Ethernet is used simply as an extension for USB asynchronous protocol to gain greater distance.I'll check on that with Steve, but I don't use the pont neuf and used DLNA with it. Will report on that later. Thanks for the response. The important thing is that two decent audiophile players support DLNA, namely Jriver and Audirvana+Doesn't foobar also support DLNA? That was the one that I used while I was experimenting with the ethernet input, apart from Jriver. |
Do you know what the similarities and/or differences of your implementation of ethernet re my Resolution Audio Cantata? I Googled the Cantata to learn about it. The Ethernet is used as a method to extend the range of USB (using pont neuf), so this not really Ethernet DLNA or other protocols. Even when a router is used, the Ethernet is used simply as an extension for USB asynchronous protocol to gain greater distance. My Ethernet does not have USB protocol underneath. It has DLNA instead. It is using packets to move data, just like storing to a disk or sending email using Ethernet. However, the DLNA protocol makes sure that all of the packets are re-assembled in the endpoint and spooled from a FIFO and that the endpoint FIFO never runs out of data. It also identifies the file-type and sample-rate so the hardware knows what to do. The DLNA protocol is supported by many mass marketed devices from companies like Panasonic, Oppo etc... The important thing is that two decent audiophile players support DLNA, namely Jriver and Audirvana+. DLNA is not compatible with all players. Amarra does not support it and Roon does not support it. Roon uses a different Ethernet protocol than DLNA. The queueing model of DLNA and Roon's RAAT are different and non-compatible. Steve N. Empirical Audio |
So sorry I haven’t posted any videos yesterday or today; I have like 20 in my head. I was supposed to have a full house today with Sam from Memory Player and Al from SGM visiting, along with my good friend CTSooner. Sam and Al both fell ill and poor CTSooner lost his ride with Sam. So it will have to wait for another week or two. Sigh. I took advantage of the time to educate myself on HQPlayer, computer cases, how to fine tune a computer server (with the help from a too short phone call with Wisnon), Roon implementation, etc. And then dove head first into my collection of footers I’ve been amassing to audition. So let’s take a diversion shall we??? What footers do I have to play with you ask? 2 sets of 4 : StillPoints Ultra 5 2 sets of 4 : Ariamateria large 1 set of 4 : Ariamateria medium 1 set of 4 : Ariamateria small 1 set of 4 : IsoAcoustic Gaia 3 2 sets of 4 : Hardpoint Trinia Want to hear the Shun Mook footers. The StillPoints are mine. The rest are loaners. The Trinia are damn cool looking. And they make the gear sort of float and glide around a central axis. Functionally, picture a Symposium ball in a track on a platform and then another one on top in a track 90 degrees off axis. They are made of aluminum. I tried the two sets from front end to amps. My system didn’t like the Trinia. I found I lost my deep bottom end and it softened and mushed up what was left. It smeared my image specificity and pushed everything towards treble while giving the sound a glassy sensation, making it overly analytical and clinical. Seriously. I was quite surprised. The Trinia were strongly suggested by Mike Lavorgna, who really enjoys them. He had literally the polar opposite experience with his Trinia in his system. He described their sound as ,” the Trinia improved image focus and reduced smear and blur......and tightened the bass and improved micro-dynamics. wherever I put them.” Mike’s a solid listener with a solid system. Go figure. Just proves that these things really are system and equipment dependent!!! PM me for more details if interested. I had the large Ariamateria placed under the amps after the Trinia came out. I wanted to use the Ultra 5’s up front so I put the large Ariamateria under the amps. Deeper bass and sweater midrange. The soundstage deepened and the image came back into focus. I then placed the Ariamateria under the server (I keep 3 Ultra5’s under the DAC, and left the preamp un footed). Same affect as on the amps. Deeper bass, although a tad looser and a nice mellow midrange. Quick swap again and the Gaia replaced the medium Ariamateria. Tighter, cleaner, deeper. Fascinating! Ok, now for the Ultra 5’s under the server. Wow, deep crisp bass but a tad bright up top, overly clinical. I decided to keep the Gaia in for now. HRS says that you should use soft, rubberized style footers under folded metal cased equipment and solid or bearing base footers under milled case equipment. They sell their own versions of each (yes, I will be checking them out). But my session today supported this theory. The computer server is a folded metal case and it sounded best to me with the rubberized metal cased IsoAcoustic Gaia 3. When I have more help I will try the same product under the DAC, amps and preamp. I couldn’t do more then I did. I struggled changing from the Trinia to the Ariamateria with the amps and that was enough for me to do alone. I also want other ears to compare the Gaia and Ariamateria. The differences where subtle. Both are VERY affordable and neat products. I do think the Ultra 5’s under the milled casing of the DAC and Burmester feat may be the best (and most expensive) choice. But we shall see..... |
Steve, I posted on the topic you referenced, but will ask here, too - my DAC has an ethernet input and sound was great, but upnp was not user-friendly at that time and would freeze up the DAC more often than not. With the regen the USB was back to the same level, but it has always been interesting to think of eliminating the transport. Do you know what the similarities and/or differences of your implementation of ethernet re my Resolution Audio Cantata? Audio Doctor NJ, you have a PM. Best Andre |
Hey Matt, thanks again, for the demo and the video it was totally fun. Reverendo, there is no update to the 20G as it is a much more sophiticated product, and it is really mind blowing, probably the most advanced and best sounding usb cable on the market and considering that some high end cables are $4k and above the 20G is a bargain. If you think about it the concept of jitter elimination/reclocking in one continous cable without having to use all sorts of multiple devices and the cost of having to purchase two high end usb cables makes a lot of sense. Please PM if you want to work on a trade in. The combination of the Baetis and the Davinci was spectacular the Baetis was brought over was using a less powerful less advanced external power supply with the bigger supply the sound should be even better. Considering this is the rig I run at the shop it wasn't a surprise. The battle of the server titans and usb cables was totally illuminating, and anyone who thinks that all severs or a stock computer sounds the same would have his mind blown. As Matt said the difference between the Wireworld USB which we sell and it is really good vs the Enklein and then the Light Harmonic 20G with the active circuitry was mind blowing. The LH 20G is probably one of the biggest improvements you can make in a system for the least amount of money if you have a $10k dac or so in a high resolution system then this little $2k cable addition is going to make a rather large improvement in your systems overall clarity and soundstaging. Dave and Troy Audio Doctor NJ |
I don’t think anyone doubts that Ethernet is the ideal way to transfer those magic bits, but most dacs (other than yours, the Ayre and a very few others) don’t have an Ethernet music input. Also, the ONLY proper way to utilize “Ethernet music out” from a server is having a dedicated Ethernet output Well I do offer an external device called the "Interchange", which has S/PDIF coax, AES/EBU, I2S and HDMI I2S outputs. This can be used with ANY DAC. I find that using S/PDIF coax it sounds identical to the same Ethernet interface installed in the ODSX. I think one of the major advantages of Ethernet is that you don't need any fancy server. Driving the DAC from a router or switch is fine as long as it has the right power supply. My issue with your Ethernet input when I had it was that my Mac Mini with Ethernet was still an inferior source to my N10 via spdif Unfortunately, you were the first to get the Ethernet interface. You were the early adopter in this case. I learned a lot after that about how to use it and connect it, as well as making many sonic improvements to it, including adding a WIFI interface. The new XMOS USB interface is really close though, and probably with one of your expensive USB cables and the N10 server will rival the Ethernet interface. I can't wait to get it to you!! Steve N. Empirical Audio |
Awesome Steve. Thanks!! That’s a great report. I don’t think anyone doubts that Ethernet is the ideal way to transfer those magic bits, but most dacs (other than yours, the Ayre and a very few others) don’t have an Ethernet music input. Also, the ONLY proper way to utilize “Ethernet music out” from a server is having a dedicated Ethernet output (in addition to the normal Ethernet jack connected to the switch/router) that can be directly connected to the Ethernet DAC (avoiding the noise in a switch/router, and allowing a direct connection between server and DAC), like the Melco server offers (the only one I know of that does). Of course, a PC based server like the Memory Player, Baetis, SGM, Music Vault, etc could always be built/modified to have that option. My issue with your Ethernet input when I had it was that my Mac Mini with Ethernet was still an inferior source to my N10 via spdif, and the N10 couldn’t use its better usb output since I didn’t have the usb input on my ODSX. My ODSX is now at my office where it is still sourced by my N10; so no matter how we slice it, the usb input is the best and only solution for that system. Once I can get the $$$ together I’d like to do the usb upgrade you told me about! At my house, I’ve got my LH Davinci 2 which has usb and spdif/aes inputs; no Ethernet input. And my Memory Player which currently only has a single Ethernet port which would obligate me to go through a noisy switch even if I did have an Ethernet equipped DAC like yours..... To me, it’s simply that the audio industry hasn’t caught up with you and your cutting edge thinking! ;) |
FYI, a study of measurements and listening I did today comparing USB to Ethernet. They are both good BTW, but there is a clear winner. http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=155232.0 Steve N. Empirical Audio |
@bill_k thanks for the information, glad to see there is now a USA distributor. The dollar price quoted looks suspect, in Europe 1TB model is €7,500. Matt, the fidata is in another class compared to the top Melco, Innuos SE2, SOtM etc. that’s why I mentioned it would be good to audition. It can be used as a network audio player via USB to a DAC or server via LAN to a streamer. |
Matt, after a lengthy cable comparison I decided on the LH Lightspeed (later called 10G) quite a while ago. Did you ever get a chance to listen to it in your system? I just might try to find out how it compares to the 20G. Do you know if the 10G is upgradeable to the 20G? Haven't been in this thread for a while, so will see if I missed anything important. |
I read up a bit on FiData. It seams to be in the same category as Antipodes, Melco, some of the Lumin, some of the Aurender, Music Vault, YFS, SoTm, etc. Without intentionally fueling the fire, at $5k I would imagine it is very good and is comparable to the other $4k to $8k servers I have heard. If someone wants to arrange an audition for me I’m happy to put the time in to give it a chance. But I won’t pursue it on my own. I am trying to get the Innuos SE in for audition but they seam to be selling out faster then anyone can put them on their shelf for display. |
Memory Player can run anything. JRiver, Tidal, Roon, etc. but only certain types of software can take advantage of the single core system they employ (no idea how it works) to get the most out of their system. Steve, as far as I know both Baetis and MP recommend using JRiver as their software of choice. I asked Sam about Amarra and he said he didn’t think it was Windows compatible. It apears Amarra is available on windows. I have Sam checking out the free trial version. He’s a bit under the weather so I’m not rushing him..... Hey Sam, are you done yet? 😇 |
@toetapaudio - According the following article Mark Gurvey (Source Systems Ltd.) is apparently the US importer for fidata. https://www.stereophile.com/content/fidata-hfas1-network-audio-servers |
Matt, thank you for your review of MP vs Baetis. I look forward to hearing about the comparison with the SMG in due course, I suspect much tougher opposition. It’s a pity fidata doesn’t have representation in USA at present because it’s a fine device and would be great to throw it in the mix as well. |
Absolutely agree about power chords making a big difference. The best by far that we have experienced are Sablon Reserva power cables with Furutech NCF plugs both ends. Hard wiring is even better. Furutech NCF Boosters also make a positive contribution. DAC’s and digital sources benefit greatly. Try to avoid using UK plugs if possible no matter how well made they are. Schuko is preferable if you need to use a plug otherwise hot wire. Dedicated lines with a separate cu are a must imo. Balanced power is also beneficial. |
“I don't know how many of you have played with power cords. But they make a bigger difference than one would think.” Absolutely! And you hit it on the nail “they make a bigger difference than one would think”! So sad that even most high end equipment has such poorly designed power supplies that special power cords become necessary! Myself I simply get rid of electronics that doesn’t work properly without these kind of band aids. |
UPDATE - SERVER COMPARISON! The long awaited comparison between the mighty and very well respected Baetis and my newly acquired and wonderful sounding Memory Player 64 server is upon us! Huzzah , I say!!!! As always, enclosure first.... The Baetis has the best enclosure I have yet encountered in a modified PC. It is a completely custom enclosure with the generic layout of a PC but in a more rigid, attractive, purpose built design. It looks more like an audio component. It has an external power supply which allows the main unit to be a bit more petite than the other modified PC’s I have seen. The back was well laid out and traded a power receptacle for a power umbilical connector. I could not open the unit but I remember reading that the internal cables are upgraded and intentionally kept to minimal runs, all done to improve sound quality. There is a built in disc drive to rip CD’s and the unit boot up quickly and without issues. I will openly state that the Baetis is a better executed enclosure and, I suspect, is wired more elegantly and with more intention, than the more expensive MP64. I just don’t know how, or even if, this translates into improved sound quality. We used JRiver on both systems. No upsampling on the MP64. Dave set the Baetis to upsample; he felt it sounded best with these settings. I ran the MP64 with my Shunyata Sigma NR and we gave the Baetis the advantage of the Enklein DAVID power cord. Both were set on StillPoint Ultra 5’s and the same LH usb cable was used. The Baetis had been run at Dr. Dave’s until it’s 45 minute journey to my house, and was plugged in shortly after arrival. Identical files were loaded to compare. It was on and running for around 45-60 minutes prior to its first comparison. Was it warmed up and settled? Not completely; but it wasn’t ice cold either. It worked flawlessly and without issue. We listened to the MP64 first while letting the Baetis warm up. Then to the Baetis, and then back to the MP64. Sonically, Dave and I differed a bit in opinion. He preferred the more forward sounding Baetis while I preferred my more harmonic Memory Player. I heard a slight collapse of the front to back soundstage on the Baetis. The MP64 projected that life size top to bottom soundstage, especially with the newly installed LH usb cable. We lost some of that with the Baetis. Tonally they were similar. I heard a greater sense of depth and control in the lower frequencies, and I felt a richer sense of harmonic structure on the MP64. I think Dave preferred the slight warmth the Baetis bestowed upon the midrange. From MP64 to Baetis we both agreed we actually heard a bigger difference when going from the Wireworld to LH usb cable then swapping components, lol. We both agreed that there was a more dramatic difference palpable upon the change back to the MP64 then the initial difference going to the Baetis. It became more apparent that the MP64 offered delicacy, layered harmonics, a deeper and more realistic soundstage and image, and extended dynamics that the Baetis lacked (only in comparison to the MP64). But considering the price difference ($17k vs $48-52k’ish), the Baetis performed mesmerizingly well, and far surpassed the previous champion Aurender N10 (which makes sense considering it’s twice the price). For $17k it was just awesome! And makes me really look forward to the upcoming release of the newly revamped SGM Gen 2 server, which I believe to be around the same price. We did, of course, try the DAVID power cord on the MP64 when we had completed our comparison. And it did the same magic to the MP64 that I’ve heard on everything else. And it pushed the MP64 that much further above the Baetis in the comparison since the Baetis was powered by the DAVID the whole time. I congratulated Dave, The Audio Doctor, on representing some seriously fine equipment and thanked him for a fun time. After all was said and done, he had given me over 5 hours of his precious time. I invited him to bring the Baetis back for a head to head against the SGM Gen 2 when I can arrange for it to grace my room. The world of high end audio has some seriously awesome digital front end to consider these days. Is it maybe safe to say that “The times they are a’changing “? |
Rbstehno - I’m not sure where you are thread wise, but the Mac Mini hasn’t been my source for quite some time. I’ve moved WAY beyond that. I will update my virtual system as I didn’t even think of it until you just posted. I’m assuming that’s what you are looking at. I’ve auditioned almost a dozen servers since then and am now dancing with some of the best servers out there. I vehemently disagree with your blanket statement that “USB sucks.” I have heard usb sound meh and I have heard (and use) usb that sounds amazing! Don’t believe the hype that usb is dead: it ain’t. It’s not what you have, it’s how you use it that counts. ;) |
Cable addendum: I don't know how many of you have played with power cords. But they make a bigger difference than one would think. I am a HUGE Shunyata fan and currently have a full loom of Shunyata Sigma NR power cables throughout my system and they are excellent. I have heard many (not close to all) power cords in the $100-$4000 price range and I am continuously impressed with, and have learned to rely on, the performance of Shunyata power cables and conditioners. That said, the power cable that the Audio Doctor has brought over several times to my room (I think he’s taunting me) is the Enklein DAVID power cable. Enklein cables are hand built, masterfully crafted pieces of audiophile jewelry, like my Crystal Cable Absolute Dream speaker wire. At $8,800- a cable they are nigh unreachable but the improvement on any component you power them with is astounding. Going from my already expensive Sigma NR to the DAVID yields a denser and more extended low frequency with a slight refinement of the overall presentation as if the music is being served on a silver platter instead of a wood cutting board. There is more presence in the upper registers that doesn’t cause brightness, but adds clarity and resolution without being offensive or overstated; it’s more a sense of correctness than added accuracy. The overall construction of the presentation just seams more masterfully recreated, if that makes sense. And that’s only using ONE DAVID on the server!!!! I would need 6!!!! But just thinking about those results gets me a bit hot and bothered.... ;) Dave took his Enklein DAVID home with him and will continue taunting me with them with every visit I am sure. I now know that sense of remorse reviewers feel when they need to send back equipment that makes an incontrovertible improvement in their system but is just beyond their reach. |
You couldn’t get any worse source music than iTunes. Plus you are limited by using a Mac mini with amarra. Plus having a Mac in an audio room is the worse. I had this setup a few years ago and replaced it with an Auralic Aries and SQ was much better. Even with the Aries I used a AQ Diamond USB cable to an external dac. USB sucks! I sold that setup and went with the PS Audio directstream with the bridge 2 and SQ is fantastic. i moved the Mac mini into the basement with 24TB of raid disk using OS X server for all my music and communicated to the DS using 1G Ethernet |
UPDATE!!! Thanks to Dave, The Audio Doctor, for stopping by and bringing all those fun toys. See the YouTube video for images and Dave explaining the gear. What he brought : -Baetis music server (I’ll let Dave post about the nuances of the external power supply system used) - from what I understand a pretty standard example of the Baetis. Supposedly there is a higher current power supply available. -Enklein David power cord -Enklein usb cord -Light Harmonic Lightspeed 20G usb cable I’ll start with the usb cables (and will post the Baetis to MP64 comparison in another post). The Enklein cable has about 200 hours on it while the LH 20G was almost new. The Enklein is beautifully built with very heavy usb connectors and stalks that are very stiff but appear strong and resistant to bending and damage. If you need a tight turn off of the unit, these are not the cables for you. They are wrapped in a golden yellow woven material that is attractive and strong. The cable is expensive for a usb cable and looks expensive. The LH 20G is two smaller cables coming off of the usb connector which is strong and simply implemented with heat wrap connecting the plug to the wires. It is very flexible and looks resistant to damage over time. There is a black box in the middle of the double cable run. Instead of trying to explain it, here is LH’s web page on the cables text: “With our new LightSpeed 20G USB Cable we enhance two key things: (1) Completely bypass the USB sending device’s noisy 5V power supply with an ultra low noise 5V battery based power supply (2) Regenerate and re-clock the USB high speed data stream with our “Regenerate and Revive” circuitry that exceeds the USB 3.0 standard.” The box is powered and has a battery that recharges with a micro usb plus and charger. I have no idea how long the charge lasts but I would Imagine quite a while..... We first listened to my “stock” system using my tried and true Wireworld Platinum Starlight usb cable (most recent model) between my Memory Player 64, which now has just over 1000 hours on it, and the LH Davinci DAC. The Wireworld usb cable probably has 5-7k hours on it! The sound was familiar and wonderful. Soundstage was wide, deep and with very nice image specificity. Ok, a quick swap of the usb cables to the Enklein and Dave and I “dropped the digital needle” on the same three tracks. Wow! Did we change cables or components?!? The texture of vocals became more layered, subtlety of tone was better, dynamics improved and the soundstage became deeper and about 6-10” taller. I would say it took a step towards realism. I was expecting an improvement as Enklein makes some seriously good cables, but I wasn’t expecting THIS big a difference! I’m already picturing the Enklein in my system for a long time, when we hit the stop button and swap out the Enklein for the LH 20G. We hit play starting at the top track, and almost instantly Dave and I look at each other in astonishment! The vocals jumped a foot higher, to normal human height. The bass became more taught and extended, the entire drum set suddenly appeared IN my room. The upright bass wasn’t just better, it was there! It was natural and just flowed easily without effort, yet displayed dynamics that I had not heard before. If the Enklein was wow, the LH 20G was Holy $&!? !!! Now I don’t know, and strongly assume there is, a designed synergy between the LH 20G and the LH Davinci 2 DAC. And the Enklein was exceptional, and may sound best with other dacs. But with my system the LH 20G was mouth dropingly amazing! It sounded like a massive component upgrade. I can’t wait for the guys to come over and hear the system and see their reaction. Dave was kind enough to leave the 20G with me to burn in a bit more before I make a purchase decision. But I don’t think it will be leaving my system, ever! Thanks Mr. Audio Doctor!! For those that want to upgrade your DAC, upgrade your usb cable first! It may be just the upgrade your looking for. —— See the next post for a comparison between the Baetis and Memory Player. |
the output stage runs in pure Class A it actually gets hot, so they are running some actual juice through it So is the output stage of the Overdrive SX, as well as the other stages. I expect my output stage is more linear than DaVinci.
What is their relationship with Tesla? I am an owner and stockholder. Should existing, operating companies use kickstarter? Maybe startups... Steve N. Empirical Audio |
I can attest to the LH build quality and Sonics, that’s for sure. I believe Dave is correct in LH’s Kickstarter delivery. I think they have caught up on most if not all at this time. They are slow slow slow. They are focusing on their relationship with Tesla from what I understand; not right or justifiable, but they made their bed and now have to lie in it. But man can they make a top shelf DAC!!! See you in a few hours Dave. Hopefully with the Baetis in tow. Dave’s bringing over some Uber usb cables as well: Enklein and the LH usb cable. I can’t wait to hear them! |
Nitewolf, the Davinci has two completely separate dacs in one chassis. There is a pure resisitor ladder as well as a sigma delta engine for DSD and both enginges sound fantastic. There is a lot of innovative ideas in the Davinci and the excution is flawless the entire chassis is cut out of two billets of aluminu, the output stage runs in pure Class A it actually gets hot, so they are running some actual juice through it. As per Kickstarter most of the people got their products, LH labs is slow as hell in delivering product especially new products. Dave and Troy Audio Doctor NJ |
http://lightharmonic.com/products/da-vinci-dac-mkii/ "Now we’ve decided to push the boundaries once again with Da Vinci MKII’s 32/768 kHz PCM resistor ladder DAC engine. And history will repeat itself. Da Vinci MKII’s second decoding engine is a pure Delta-Sigma DAC capable of decoding DSD signals up to DSD256." As I thought, the PCM decoder is a resistor ladder circuit. The DSD engine is Delta Sigma. Personally have no respect for LH Labs, as they kickstarted the Vi dac and took money from customers without delivery. But doesn't mean they can't build a good dac. |
Imgoodwithtools, we had a customer bring in his Berkley Ref 1 which I know in'st the latest howerver we compared it to our Davinci Dual Dac MK I which isn't as good as the newer MK II. So it was a fair title match up last series of each head to head. The Davinci was signifigently more like an analog source with a bigger soundstage and a more holographic sound stage. The Berkly was superb I think we also compared both to the EMM Labs Da 2 the new $25k one, and both of these dacs were better than the Emm. You should listen to one if you can, they are very rare dac's but as Matt will attest to one of the most remarkable pieces of digital out there. Dave and Troy Audio Doctor NJ |
Matt has been one of the most humble people on Audiogon. I've asked him several questions through PM and he has always been respectful. He's vey hesitant to be overly critical of a component. Matt keep being who you are, I submit you help make Audiogon a great place for constructive and honest dialog. |
We've always had some twists and turns and we will get back to gear very soon. Of course the name was chosen for a reason. They love it when they get their free pub on boards as they don't have to have high overhead and can make affordable products that work nicely within their price range. It's a great concept and they make many happy. There is no be all end all in audio for obvious reasons that have been talked about in nearly every thread on every forum all over the net. Maybe even the dark net, but I don't play there so I don't know for sure, lol. ((😆 that's my way of saying joke). I've gotten to know Matt, Richfield, Steve and so many of you because of this thread. Nothing else, just this thread. I've gotten to network with Matt specifically and met others here who post. Many of you are dealers or manufacturers. ALL of you are great guys who share the same passion that I do. Gentlemen all of you (no grammar police as I purposely wrote it that way ;)). Matt and others have kept this thread going and kept it civil, when most so many of these bumps would have blown up other threads. Teh same will happen here, because 99% of us what it that way. Most of us open up AG daily and look to see who's posted what and what gear are we talking about today. For many of us, we can't afford the TOTL stuff, but it's fun to dream and it's fun to learn. I also want to know what the 'best' gear is on the top end and it allows me to learn more about what is in my own wheel house. I'm sure most of you are do the same. I know that so many who read this thread and don't post feel that way. I'd be remiss if I didn't mention something about Matt. He's become a very good friend (same with Richfield and Sam isn't far behind). We don't see eye to eye on much of audio, but we are very very close most of the time. At first I thought that I disagreed with him more than I agreed, but over the years now, I've come to realize that we do like most of the same gear as we both need tonality first. It's fun as we bounce so much off of each other daily. As you can tell, it's his passion. He's a great friend and he's honest. What he has, that many on the net lack is class. I've never seen anyone on the internet (I'm much more heavily involved in Oklahoma Univ athletics than audio and I spend hours and hours daily listening to music and networking in that area) react to some of the stuff he does with such class. Many of us have no filters (thanks MS!) and can be contentious. We are brutally honest and just post thoughts and don't always think (again, screw you MS). Matt does the opposite. He will take valuable time to retort to a post that may rub him the wrong way or if he knows something isn't fact etc... He's one of many I've seen on this thread who won't put something else down even if he didn't like it at all. Sorry Matt, but it's very true as no one likes everything (why both Wilson and Vandersteen can be profitable for so long as they are so opposite of each other). I'm in touch with at least 6 of the folks who read or post on this thread on a consistent basis as I've said and everyone I spoke with about this issue felt that Matt was pretty funny and not putting down the product. For those who have taken the time to read this whole thread, you'd have known that Matt has and would never put down a product. He'll be honest if he didn't love something, but no way does he put down a product. Especially a decent one that a couple of you enjoy. This situation, like a couple of others before it will play itself out. On Wed, I'm heading to Matt's house for the first time to audition The Memory Player and built in (or possibly external) DAC and I can't wait. First time I get to see and hear your room and I can't wait to hear this piece of equipment that I've heard SOOOO much about over the last couple of months. Very exciting and what this thread is truly about adn why it will always stand the test of time. I"m blessed to be getting a ride over to Matt's as I wouldn't be able to physically drive right now. I wonder what music we will get to audition. Sorry to break away from the previous schitt, but it really is all about the music as well as the gear isn't it? (if you made it this far, thanks). |
Matt, no need for an apology (in case it was directed at me) as I was neither offended nor insulted. I enjoy this thread (even when it diverges from the primary intent) and now your videos and am looking for more insights and learning via both media. Thank you for your recommendation on 'The Greatest Showman.' I like both leads and the 90% audience rating on Rotten Tomatoes speaks volumes. I'm looking forward to being emotionally moved. |
And if everyone noticed, I didn’t say anything except complement all involved in the recent reincarnation of the very same R2R/DS DAC conversation. Simply because it was informational, educational, respectful and completely avoided any absolute statements. In this hobby, there are no absolutes. Only opinions. And we have all learned from the great input recently posted from this great community! I have watched over this thread for years and always tried to keep it respectful, free of drama and conflict. As a result we have nurtured a community of open opinion, educated involvement and mutual respect. I take enormous pride in what this thread has become. Im not sure why, but I think that George takes offense that I feel a sense of paternity and responsibility towards this thread and act as a pseudo-moderator. As I said before, I sincerely apologize to George and anyone else if I have ever said or implied anything directly or interpreted as offensive! |
A prime example of how interpretation varies amongst individual readers. With a name like Schitt it is the perfect and inevitable target for word play. I believe that the company intentionally chose this name for this very purpose and expected effect. Matt’s suggestion to George to start a thread regarding R2R DACs seems to be the logical next step given his repetitive and numerous posts on this subject. It’s apparent to me that George has very strong opinions concerning R2R conversion. This would provide an outlet for his beliefs and perspective. Charles |
