This may be one of the funniest threads running right now.
You have got to get us more info on the room/house/church so we can lead you in the wrong direction. Just understand that if you open yourself up in these forums, look out. |
lajb@cox.net,
By the way, what kind of name is lajb@cox.net?
You've left us hanging. Help us out...
Tell us about the room and the house, even if we did make fun of you.
The story sounds like it'll be terrific. |
You could see a picture of the Fertin 20EX at diyaudio(Fertin project-calling all open-baffle expert). |
Wow, just move the furniture and get your rackets and play tennis, that would be great. As for your speakers, I would go for: each speaker would have (2-15inch Fertin 38EX electromagnetic) and a (8 inch Fertin 20EX electromagnetic). All this in an open-baffle. There goes the 8000$, but that's hi-fi isn't it? As for the amps, I would bi-amp this set-up with David Berning mono since the Fertin are 100db into 8 ohm.That would surely rock the place. A great place requires a great set-up. |
“I am purchasing a new stereo system. I have a $8,000 budget to spend on speakers and equipment. I am working with a room filled with travertine that is 35 ft. wide by 55 ft.long with 18 foot ceilings. I am going to the CES Show in Las Vegas for my evaluation. One speaker line I am looking at is the Von Schweikert VR4 SR. Can anyone recommend speakers and equipment for my comparison? I listen to all types of music; soft/hard rock, pop, oldies, classical, jazz, etc. I enjoy listening to music that is very defined and realalistic. I do not mind used equipment.”
I have read the postings to your thread and have a few thoughts and an idiosyncratic solution that I have direct personal experience with.Have fun at the CES. I doubt you will find a solution but get around the rooms and ask the speaker manufacturers for their solution. You are faced with a really significant room problem and sources and amplification are not going to change that. Getting the right speaker is going to be the critical element in such a large bright room.
I’m making a few assumptions. You have probably figured out you will not get a reference sound going in this room. I assume the room will be utilised for different purposes simultaneously and may well have several functional areas. I’m guessing you may well have an area where you can enjoy ‘serious’ listening but a lot of the room will effectively be ambient sound.
My direct experience is with a ‘great’ room that was added to our house some years ago. It is approx 54 ft long by 20 ft wide with 9 ft ceilings. The room is largely surrounded by glass sliding doors, has a granite floor and little in the way of soft furnishings or carpet. The volume the speakers see is in fact a bit larger than this. The room functions as a kitchen/dining/lounge area with a service area behind the kitchen. The room is a regular rectangle.
Speaker solution is Martin Logan Monolith IIIp sitting between our lounge and dining areas firing over the dining area at the kitchen where we spend a lot of our lives sitting at the large front bench. There are several reasons why this particular speaker works better than a dynamic loudspeaker or another panel speaker in my estimation.
There are several attributes of an electrostatic panel that help in this room, namely their lesser interaction with sidewalls ceiling and floor. The perceived volume does not drop off as rapidly as your distance from the speaker increases in comparison to a dynamic speaker . The backwave from the panel provides excellent coverage of the lounge area. The level of resolution that the panel is capable of means that the music is alive at relatively low volumes.
There is a specific attribute of the Monoliths that helps and that is the lowish crossover of 125 Hz. In later ML speakers the crossover is higher and the bass is more directional.
Allied to this experience is the virtue of utilising a high resolution speaker and feeding a lot of quality power to the speakers. This is not to provide ultimate volume but to provide an involving musical experience at lowish volumes. I can assure you that you will not be listening at high volumes because the room will go completely crazy. You may well find that you listen to a lot more small group stuff rather than symphonies.
We get a surprisingly good sound in our horrible room. From the kitchen bench and the lounge area the performers are completely dissociated from the speakers to the point that a number of guests have taken all evening to figure out that the music is coming from the room dividers.A number of people with good systems have also (maybe being polite) have been surprised how well it has worked.
The other speaker that I have personal experience with are Shahinians which are a polydirectional design and could well work in such a space.
My suggestions are tailored to your specific room problem. There is nothing orthodox about the solution but you do not have an orthodox problem. If it was me I’d be on the lookout for ML CLS IIz panels (much younger than Monoliths), one of Velodyne’s digitally corrected subwoofers, high grade, high power ss amplification (Plinius, Krell,Classe etc etc) and potentially a tubed cdp with variable output.
Do not get strung out tuning a room problem with cables.
Best of luck.
Kevin . |
How about some PA equipment? Just about every town that has a music store, be it chain or independent, will have a bulletin board that lists used PA gear. Another good source is the local trading post type paper & even the local newspaper. Used PA gear is an even greater bargain than used audio gear. With those high ceilings, you could suspend the spkrs & they would cover most of the room. I'm thinking a LCR configuration w/sub would work pretty well.
All you need is a decent front end to go with it & you're set. |
Put your system in ANY other room in your house (presumably smaller!). Then your 8K (on the used market) will get you a very good system to enjoy, at least if you are sticking to digital. New, you can still do reasonably well if you insist on going that way, but I agree you are not going to find much at CES that will suit your purposes. |
Hey,
When you go to CES check out Cary Audio, They really have some nice stuff, Also You can get a nice start with some used McIntosh Gear. I will be at CES, I can't wait to see and here all the great gear. Good luck, It sounds like you have a great room and you should be able to easly push some nice sound though it.
Mark |
trav·er·tine (noun)
1. A light-colored porous calcite, CaCO3, deposited from solution in ground or surface waters and forming, among other deposits, stalactites and stalagmites.
2. A compact calcium carbonate used as a facing material in construction.
;-) |
You live in a converted church right? |
For your room I would only recommend headphone system. |
everything im about to suggest goes against popular choices but your GIANT room present's a ton of problem's & treating a room that size is not cost effective so your gear must be chosen around the room,choosing gear that sound's great at a dealership or at ces will not help you in your room no matter how great the review's are.
avoid ces like it's the plague,ANY gear that is being shown at ces will be new model & carry a price tag to match the hype,with an 8k budget & such a demanding room you need to pay for rock solid gear & not hype,an 8k budget can go along way but not on new gear.
first off vr's wont cut the mustard in that room even though they are top flight speaker's they will end up sounding like mini monitor's with zero bass or dynamic's & your ceiling's will suck any bass they have right out of them,ANY audiophile speaker that need's to be away from the wall to sound it's best will not help you in a room that large,you need speaker's that like being close to the wall to add bass response & dynamic's.
a used pair of modern klipschorn's would be about the best speaker still allowing you some cash left to go tword's the rest of the rig,you must have big speaker's with big driver's or you will end up with lifeless & undynamic sound.
dont even think about buying a preamp without tone control's & a loudness contour control,your going to need all the help you can get in the bass dept & tone control's will come in handy to increase bass response & to tame any harsh high's,there are not that many high end preamp's with tone control's other than mcintosh & cello but a cello pre would smash your budget to bit's so a mcintosh c38 would do the trick.
you will also need an amp with huge ball's & i dont think an intergrated will cut it & you can forget tube amp's right from the start,you will need a high current high power solid state amp to make the speaker's move some air.
for amplification i would look to threshold & krell,there are many high current high wattage amp's from both manufacturer's that will fit the bill.
for a cd player i'd go with a tube player to smooth out all the ss gear,a dynaco cdv pro hdcd tube player is hard to beat at any price.
klipschorn's.............................$3,500
mcintosh c38 preamp................$1,000
theshold sa6 monoblock's...........$2,500
dynaco cdv pro hdcd tube cd player...$700
mike.
|
I've given this some thought. Anyone with a living room the size of a New York three bedroom apartment should certainly abondon the idea of a music system and just have a resident orchestra. Much more efficient. No worrying about room acoustics. Seating isn't much of an issue. Certainly volume levels, both soft and loud are automatic.
Yeah. Best solution, just get your own band. |
Wow, your room is nearly double the size of my condo! Filling a space that large is going to be a tall order, especially at that total budget. Perhaps you should look at an efficient and relatively inexpensive speaker line such as Klipsch. Then build the electronics around them and later upgrade your speakers again when finances permit. Barring that perhaps you could use room dividers to make the listening space smaller? I'm sure others will have even better advice, perhaps folks who have very large rooms themselves. |
The room................ GOOD GOD!!!! It sounds like a giant mausoleum. I would think you are going to need 8k in room treatments to make anything sound good. |
If I had a room that size and could get a ways away from the speakers and liked to rock and roll (which I do) I'd buy a big pair of Klipschorns (used) a moderately powered tube integrated or tubed CD player and call it good. Keep it simple and try some Paul Speltz anti-cables and spend the rest of the money on music or tuning the room. There are many integrates that would fit the bill as well as CD players. Maybe a modified Jolida with a Creek integrated? If you have more money move up the food chain, the options are unlimited. No, I don't use Klisch speakers but have had them in the past, but I didn't have the room to let them breathe and/or get some distance from the horns. Put em in the corners and rock...or whatever your tastes run to.
Another option (if you are strictly going digital) would be to add a DSP preamp (like a Tact) and a moderately powered tube amp. This way you wouldn't have to spend any money on room treatments.
One other thing that would work with this would be a passive preamp like the Placette with a tube amp and CD player. The possibilities are unlimited, but big speakers in a room that size are a necessity in my opinion. My $.02. |
I think that I'd grab a Herron VTSP-1A/166 pre-amp and a pair of Herron M-150 monoblocks off of Audiogon for around $4,000.00 used ($10,000.00 new) and then get the Theil 2.4's for $4,000.00. I can't suggest the Harmonic Precision Caravelle's like I have in a room that big, but the Theil's need that kind of breathing room. |
"What home has a 1700 sq. ft. living room with 18' ceilings?"
HeHe, thats what I was thinking...my whole house will fit into that room.
Dave |
You've gotta help me here...
What home has a 1700 sq. ft. living room with 18' ceilings?
And you want to use 8K speakers?
I need to understand this one. |
First thing I would do is buy a good carpet. |
what I am about to say is very controversial. Do you have a significant mumber of cd's or vinyl albums? that should determine whether you want a turntable or cd player.
the most significant mistake people make is to fall in lvoe with a particular component and then surround it with inferior components because thier budget was exhausted.
I would start like the design of a car .think of the speakers like a suspension and the amp/preamp like the engine. If you are going cd you should strongly consider an integrated amp or reciever. If you are going vinyl then you need an amp preamp combo.
Most people never get the most out of thier spekers because they don't have the proper associated equipment.
I beleive you should start with a mini monitor like the Epos.follow that up with sometihng like a cj pv10 and cj tube amp mv60. follow that with rega turntable and arm and one of the cheaper cartridges like sumiko or grado. Definitely stay away from expensive cable. generic will do just fine.
if you are committed to the vr4' realize you are going to have to spend ten to fifiteen thousand dollars in assoiciated equipment(new). at least half of that should go to electronics. if you buy quality electronics you can keep them for a long time. |
