5-10k budget... so many choices

@lowspark   Any updates? Were you able to audition the Legacy speakers?

Eh, the only thing that would give me pause about the Kantas is that they are a bit "smallish" for the price.  I wonder about the deep bass capabilities.  The 1038 BE ii are larger, heavier, with more bass drivers, and are rated deeper in the bass, and you still get the beryllium tweeter.  You also can get them for around $7K.  I'm afraid I wouldn't be satisfied with the deep bass on the Kantas.  I'm guessing that they live up to the reviews in all other areas.

I see that there's already a pair of Kanta no.2's on here for sale.  4 weeks old.  That can't be a good sign.

I’ve been reading this forum thread, and in particular the speaker comparisons of @lowspark and others, with great interest since I am also thinking about buying a new pair of speakers in the $5-10K range and upgrading my AVR system. I’m hoping to be able to soon listen to the new Elac Adantes, which have received rave comments from people who have listen to them. I’ve also been reading the Tektron DI’s rave reviews, but find these speakers to be too big. Unfortunately living in the California Bay Area, my home is small and we only have space in the living room for the AVR/stereo system. My wife would probably get a heart attack if the ungainly DI’s were suddenly placed in the living room. I’ve been considering the smaller, but still imposing and somewhat ungainly, Tektron Electrons as an alternative to the DIs. Another alternative are the soon to be released Magico A3s, which were recently favorably compared with the Sopra No2s. (http://www.soundstageglobal.com/index.php/product-debuts/magico-a3-december-2017/739-magico-a3-louds...). I’m also checking for used B&W 803 D3s, but these speakers seem to elicit widely diverging comments (some people love them, while others hate them). I guess that I have to spend more time listening in addition to reading forums and reviews.

@lowspark  Great update on your Saturday demos!

I also want to commend you on keeping the thread updated with your posts and journey and in such a detailed and excellent manner. 

So many Post Originators (OPs) disappear or contribute minimally. 

As you found out, even the short journey so far has some interesting twists and turns. 

The fact that your impressions of the Kantas did a 180 is suspicious.  Same exact setup?  That’s...  odd.  They didn’t move them since you were last there?

In the 5-10k range I’d definitely consider Revel’s new 10k speaker which may or may not be available right now. Don’t know model no but it’s definitely been announced and Revel is great stuff. Kevin V is a great designer backed with a big budget.

What a busy weekend... it didnt all go according to plan but I still got some quality listening time in.  I went back to audition the Kanta's again but this time I also got to hear the Spora 2's which is where I started. 

First off my thoughts on the Sopras... they are pretty big and the increased driver size was definitely noticeable.  They extended low and punched deep but never seemed to sound "boomy".  I feel like there was more room in the high end and they just never seemed to quite reach that upper ceiling to give them that sense of a truly dynamic sound.  Im not really knocking them, they were incredibly clean and produced a full sound but they seemed more geared towards modern bass forward music.  I also felt that the mid levels, especially percussion, kind of took a back seat.  They were driven with McIntosh tubes which may have played a role in their overall sound.  What was really interesting was after listening to the Sopras I went to the back and listened to the Kanta/Naim combo I had fallen in love with.... To my surprise that gushy feeling they gave me was gone... The Kanta's sounded much more forced and almost bright.  I listened at the same levels I had previously and they almost felt fatiguing, they were still punchy and dynamic and lively but I found myself wanting to back them down, not push them forward as I had before.  Im not sure if that is a result of listening to the Sopra first but it definitely made me scratch my head.  I spent about 45 minutes listening to all kinds of content and I just couldnt back to that place they took me to when I first heard them. 

Saturday I got a late start and wasnt able to get out to Silverdale to hear the Legacy's but I did make it to Tacoma for a good audition of the Vandersteens.  All I can say is WOW, what a totally different speaker and experience.  They had recently shuffled their demo room around and only had an Anthem AVR driving Treo's, so we listened to several CDs through an OPPPO unit.  Even with the minimal setup these speakers still came alive.  Their sound is incredibly unique, they made the music we listened to come alive.  The separation was unreal, they created and presented a truly LIVE sound stage.  At first he put on Dave Mathews and I asked him if it was one of their live albums, to my shock and surprise it was just the studio version of Under the Table and Dreaming.  The way the Vandersteens isolated each instrument and element of the recordings was phenomenal, the speakers just disappeared.  The sound was rich, it was full, and it had an airiness to it.  I wouldnt say the sound was fragile but it had a definite delicateness to it.  Looking back and comparing them to the Focals the best way I can describe my impression is this, the Focal's were like an electric guitar, plugged in and turned up to 11, where as the Vandersteen's were like an acoustic guitar with a richer more intimate and soulful sound.  They really are that different.  One thing that was really refreshing about the audition was the room had absolutely zero treatment so in theory I got to hear them in basically a "home" type of environment.

Im still no closer to a decision and if anything I am even more torn, its like loving ice cream and having to choose between chocolate or vanilla.  They are so different but at the same time both so good.  A consideration that I am realizing is I need to take into account my space.  The room itself is big, but its awkward.  After rearranging my furniture orientation I will be seated about 6 ft from the speakers and at best I will be able to position them 7.5 ft apart.  If I had to be pressed into a choice today I think I would have to give the nod to the Vandersteen's.  I really want to love the Kanta's but I just cant get the taste of their last listening out of my mouth, Im afraid that they will end up just being dominating in my home.  I still have plenty of time before I have to decide and I no doubt will spend several hours with both speakers again.  Im also going to try and get some time with the Revel's and Paradigms.

I like the New Technics $5K Speakers very much for the price. A great Integrated like the Naim Star with a hard drive gives you streaming and a Powerful system. Add a Pair of REL Sub Bass Systems and you are good.
Aerial Model 9 would be great in Preowned if you have a BIG Room. Amazing. Just took a pair in trade.
If you blow your budget, I have a MINT pair of Audio Physic Aventara with custom WEL Signature Wiring and Custom feet a $6000.00 Valur for $12,500.00
Aerial Model 7T, and Sabrinas would be bitchin too !

I still have a few speakers left to listen too but I picked out the amp for my new system and bought it today.  I picked a PS Audio BHK 250 to keep me going until I can listen to a few more speakers including the new Magicos that should be out in the next few weeks. 

Seattle: in the university area, you've got a great cluster of three, Hawthorne, Audio Connection, and Definitive, and downtown Tune was very welcoming too.

Lowspark, I was at RMAF all 3 days this past October and had the opportunity to hear most of the speakers mentioned in this thread. One, and only one of them made me want to upgrade; the Focal Kanta. Upon first listen I just melted into my seat and did not want to get up. Acoustic instruments and voices seemed convincingly real. They are detailed without being bright, imaging and soundstage were just right, but most of all they had an organic quality that was irresistible. My wife joined me on Saturday and her response to the kantas was identical to mine. We kept coming back to this room, but the biggest problem was getting visitors to give up their seat. Everyone that heard them seemed gobsmacked.
By comparison, some $10,000 floor standers down the hall sounded boring and even a bit irritating (poor setup was a contributor)
The Kantas were driven by all Naim gear.
I haven’t heard them again since RMAF because if I do, I’ll likely be $10k poorer.
We also heard the Sopra 2 and preferred the Kantas. Sure, the Sopras did some things better, but they didn’t have that same organic quality of the Kantas. As always, this is just a subjective opinion based on my particular taste.

It would seem we were in the same boat and I we chose Focal originally we did 2-1 then 3-1. Then 5-2.  What really sold us was the sound and the expansion.  I like focal for a lot of music but what my wife loved was the Movie experience.  Focal is where that is and you can’t go wrong!  I paired the focal with Anthem amps. 


We do have our own music room, and that runs a completely different setup but, Focal is hard to beat, I like Spendor (can’t really expand as far as home theatre) and a quality tube amp the best! B&W (top of the line) is fantastic as well Focal but $10,000.00 won’t do it unless buying used.  

My current home theatre setup is $20,000.00 not all at once of course.  My listening room is triple that if not quadruple!  $10,000.00 is a great start!  I am still impressed by Focal and better yet the wife actually shows it off! It really is beautiful setup!  

Well he very obviously didn’t mean that if you read his posts.   Also not sure what you’re talking about with female vocals.  Never heard anyone mention that about Raidho speakers before.  

I don’t disagree with your recommendation of Vandersteens though.  :)

(((I am completely taken back by your continued mention of Raidho speakers being “bright” or too detailed. They have perhaps the most magical tweeter on the planet. I haven’t ONCE heard them sound bright or fatiguing in any way.)))

I think what he meant was Raidhos can be hard to live with as not being able to play with the finesse on voicing, for example, One of our listeners that had the 70K plus Raidhos found female voices hard to live with its multiple drivers blending or transition and traded into Vandy 7s, now very satisfied.
 
As for the OP the Vandy Treo CTs should definitely be on his list as he may also discover and appreciate its unique Time correct design works as well ..
Best,
JohnnyR

I had the opportunity to listen to the f208 by revel and the 1028 be, kanta and sopra 2 by focal.  All were powered by a Macintosh 5200 integrated and rega cd player. 

The room was setup wider side having the speakers against it and not any acoustical treatments on the walls.  No doubt the audio equipment tested would sound better in a room setup for listening specifically.  I asked why the room had no acoustic treatment other than defusers set behind the speakers?  The sales person said we want to portray the speakers in an environment similar to what you would have in a typical home.

The revel F208 was the most linear and balanced speaker I have listened to upto the 5k  range and I would have been completely happy with these had i never listened to a speaker with beryllium tweeters or mid range.  The detail and image of speakers with beryllium are just in an entirely different league to my ears.

The 1028 be was a pleasant speaker but not for me.  This speaker was the most focused sharpest imaging speaker I have listened too to date.  There seemed to be a bit of over emphasized areas in the highs and the lows that seemed to come and go depending on music type (it felt like certain frequency ranges were over compensated for which caused an unnatural bump).  Perhaps the room was somewhat to blame but the same room and equipment powering others were all much smoother to my ears.

The Kanta was a great speaker very smooth and slightly laid back driven by the equipment in the test room.  I enjoyed the detail and sound stage that was nice and in focus although not as hyper focused as the 1028 be.  Great overall speaker it is very close to the persona 3f I listened too before.  The personas have just a sweeter mid and top end where the kanta plays down lower more linear than the personas.  I personally would want a sub with either but the kanta can get away without one.

The sopra 2 was a great speaker sounding very much like that kanta and it just had a little more of everything from detail to low end extension.  The one thing that was odd to me about this particular setup was the image was very forward with these.  The image was also unnaturally wide an even with the front speakers or even slightly forward of that.  Again this is probably due to the room setup and lack of acoustical treatments. I have seen these 15k speakers demo or used for 11k or so many places which makes them a bargain.

Lowspark
i am Seattle lesser .... offer still stands but
Victor and Bob at Advanced will take great care of you

as for the Seattle area ?
stores in Silverdale, Gig Harbor, Tacoma, and at least 3 in Seattle proper, plus another Lynn wood, so decent....some shops run out of homes that come and go....

I'm in your price range chasing the magic and its got me stuck in analysis paralysis. I've ended up leaning toward the new Dynaudio Contours but have not pulled the trigger yet. 

I’m a bit surprised that no one mentioned good standmounters along with dual subs. My office system consists of a Yamaha RX-A3060, B&W 805S and dual JL Audio E-112 subs.  Source is OPPO 105 and Tidal streaming. The 805’s and JL’s blend seamlessly and easily fills a 16’x35’x14’ room with a full detailed sound with a soundstage that is second to none. This entire system can be had for less than $10k and is guaranteed to put bumps on any goose. Perhaps my Trump tax cuts will allow for an 805d3 upgrade this year :).  Food for thought. 

@lowspark  You've got a full Saturday of demoing on tap...I would focus on that for now.

@kalali also pointed out the importance of your gear vs the gear that is being used to demo at dealers. If you can take some of your gear and cabling, etc with you...it may be helpful...and definitely compare with the dealer's recommended setup.

I found it interesting that you and I have very similar assessments of the Goldenear Triton Reference speakers. I'll take a look at the listings tomorrow (it's getting late for my time zone) and see if anything pops.

Enjoy your day in Tacoma and Silverdale.

Based on the 2 main preferences you listed, the Kanta and B&W, at 10K I would be looking for pre-owned Sopra 2's.  Good luck.  👍

David, thanks for the response.  Do you have any boutique recommendations?  The challenge is I would like to be able to demo them before making the investment.

@kalali +1 ...and there is at least one person who agrees with you : )

I would look at my search as a "system " and try to approach my options in that manner.

@ddouin please take note of kalali’s post. We never, I repeat never hear a speaker on it’s own. There is nothing wrong with your approach of choosing an amp first and then a speaker.

OP is receiving some great suggestions. I’ll add that most of what is currently under consideration is mainstream and heavily advertised and dealer represented. I recommend being open to the many boutique / smaller scale operations making terrific speakers, before finalizing a choice.

Tomic, I am in the greater Seattle area.  After a few calls and confirmations this afternoon I will be making the trek to Tacoma for the Vandersteens on Saturday as well as KitsapAV in Silverdale for the Legacy Focus SE's.  I'm also trying to secure a demo of the Revel's as well.  Should be a busy weekend!

Lowspark
if you are if you are close to Portland you should come hear what a Vandersteen tweeter and all the other bits can do
where are you exactly ? pm me if you want to hear 7’s with a world class tweeter - which you can get in the treo
Advanced in Tacoma has fine room, gear and both Quattro CT as well as Treo CT
btw I am putting a pair of Treo CT in our Condo great room also about 800 square foot but w 9’ ceilings....

I don't know any of these folks personally; but who would you rather believe? @nitrobob ("Not even close ...") or these guys? Just sayin' 
http://v2.stereotimes.com/post/tekton-designs-double-impact-loudspeakers/

https://hometheaterreview.com/tekton-design-double-impact-floorstanding-speaker-reviewed/

I never felt the need for a centre speaker.

You might (or really should) depending on the the of music you listen to. I’ve already undeniably pointed out (elsewhere on the forum in another thread) that the ability to reproduce lower than 30 Hz is a *requirement* in the case of Grateful Dead (90’s in particular) music. Also the case if you listen to classical where there are pipe organs involved.

The aforementioned said, I never felt the need for a "stand alone" center speaker, hence once reason I chose Golden Ear Triton Reference.

A little more info on my demo of the FOCAL Kanta, the setup was driven by Naim NAP 250 dr amp and processed by the Naim Streamer using Tidal... I believe this was also the setup used on my demo of the B&W 702s.  The 804 d3's were driven directly off the Marantz 7012 AVR.

Cheers

Thank you soix, I will definitely look into those 2 and if I get a chance to demo them I will update the thread with my findings.  It is kind of funny how that works, some things just speak to us, there isnt a rhyme or a reason but they leave us with that impression we just cant really shake.

Willem, if I go with something like the Focals I will be starting off with a 2 channel and you may be right, once they are in my home and in use I may not feel the need for the center.  I will leave that one as a TBD.

You've heard a decent array of speakers, and the fact that the Focals spoke to you as strongly as they did -- well -- that doesn't always happen so you may very well have your answer.  If you have a ProAc or Joseph Audio dealer somewhat nearby you might give them a listen just for reference, but it really sounds like you can't go wrong with the Focals.  Trust your ears.  Speakers do what they do, and you'll find upstream electronics that will make them sing.  Best of luck in whatever you decide. 

I never felt the need for a centre speaker.

twoleftears, their may be a certain influence of "lifestyle" in their overall design but technically they really have a lot going for them.  They bring down a number of influences from the Sopra and have even gone to a flax fiber cone that gave a good tight natural feeling punch.  As someone who is habitually single WAF has played zero roll in my thought process.  Regarding the soundstage I would say they presented themselves closer to my listening position, they didnt have the depth as the B&W 804's but I felt like they had more height and projected themselves further into me if that makes sense.

gdhal, if I was going strictly for home theater the golden ears would probably be my primary choice.  The center I heard was fantastic.  That being said I also thoroughly enjoyed the B&W diamond center as well.  Word on the street says that Focal will be putting out a Kanta center at somepoint and I know the Sopra line has one as well. 

...I really want to stick with 3 channel setup. I totally get the rationale behind the 2 channel configuration and that may be how I start but I love movies and I dont know if I could do without the center.

You mentioned you heard the Golden Ear Triton Reference but preferred the Focal's and 803's. Keep in mind Golden Ear also makes (very good) center channel speakers. 

Willem, I really want to stick with 3 channel setup.  I totally get the rationale behind the 2 channel configuration and that may be how I start but I love movies and I dont know if I could do without the center.

As for the equipment / demo discussion I totally agree and I have been taking that into consideration.  Another thing that I am trying to be cognizant of is how forgiving/unforgiving a speaker is.  Out of convenience most of my music comes from Spotify, on wifi I listen to as high of quality as I can but its still compressed.  Whatever speaker I end up with needs to be able to still sound good even with less than perfect material, sadly this is not an area that favors the Focals, the beryllium tweeter is quite revealing.  I wonder how much a good DAC would help there.

I found a Vandersteen dealer about an hour away so I am going to try and get down there this weekend to have a listen.  The closest Paradigm Persona dealer is down in Portland ~3 hours away so that will be another trek.  Its really kind of sad how few hifi shops remain out here.

@audiotroy   I assume you commit an act of omission in not mentioning the musical preeminence of the Vandersteen "Carbon Tweeter" as in Treo "CT" and Quatro "CT" as you don't carry them.  

I think your basic assertion that "hard material" tweeters made from a variety of metals are often a bit much in their presentation of treble and how they integrate with the other drivers in a particular speaker design is on point.

Soft domes, as you assert, do generally have a more forgiving nature.

In my personal experience, my circa 1980s Vandersteen 2C with their soft silk dome tweeters, had that more musically satisfying treble presentation than the metal domes in all iterations of the Model 3.  The 3A Signature in current production have come a very long way toward providing treble detail with smoothness of response.

My current Treo CTs have a literal seamlessness between drivers. Once you have them set up properly, you just listen to music and really don't think about the relative contributions of individual drivers.  Amazing accomplishment for Richard Vandersteen!

Come on Contuzzi, you like the Paradigm Personas so I have to respect you and your opinions somewhat.

You don't understand my classification, lets just simplify almost any uber high tech metal based driver is going to sound detailed, clean, transparent, wether or not a particular listener is going to find all that clarity to be too much is a matter of personal taste and system setup. 

Pure Ceramic drivers also tend to sound in this camp ie the Acuton's used in Kharmas original speakers. 

The only uber high tech tweeters that have mega clarity, speed, and articulation while also sounding smooth, Acuton Pure Diamond drivers.

(we have a set of Polymers which use these drivers)

If you look at all the speakers that tend to fit into this camp, almost every one of these tweeters goes up to 40-50k or above.

Vs. 

Soft domes, Heils, Electrostatics,  very rarely have I ever heard a Heil driver with the same level of uber clarity then the above camp, generally more detailed then a soft dome fabric driver, and more air. 

Electrostatics all tend to be shelved in frequency response above 16k,
and most soft dome tweeters even if they extend to the 20k and above range all tend to be smooth and musical with less "apparent" detail then the above camp.

Have you ever heard a "bright pair of Harbeths or Sonus Fabers or Quads Electrostatics? 

I rest my case.

Lets make an analogy to a coffee drinker, 

You got pure black coffee, all the detail can be a bit aserbic for many people.


You got the little bit of milk or half and half guys, a bit more toned down and slightly altered,  from the above but you can still  taste the coffee.

You got the little bit of milk and a bit of sugar, guys, another step  towards changing the taste and cutting off the aserbic nature of the unadultarated pure black coffee. 

and finally,

Coffee with a lot of cream and a lot of sugar, now you have changed the coffee into something else. 

You see my point, which Coffee drinker are you? 

Persepective is a very unusal thing it is a shame we all don't have one.

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ

Warning to the OP, make sure you also note what (other) gears are used during the speaker demos. Those Focals may require some significant additional investment, e.g., amplifier, preamp, source, etc., to sound the way they did during the demo. It reminds me of when I had an awe inspiring experience hearing a pair of Revel Salons and looked down and took notice of the Mark Levinson monoblocks sitting right next to each one and other Levinson gear upstream. The dealers have plenty of time to experiment and in many cases know how to make the "system" sound exceptional in their showroom. Just make sure your comparisons are apple to apple. Good luck.

Wow!  After reading this thread it is clear why there are so many diversely designed loudspeakers.  In addition, the terminology used to describe what we hear could use some refinement.  Perhaps many posting on this thread prefer very similar designs, but because of unartful use of descriptors, are not accurately conveying what they hear or prefer in sound quality.

Audiotroy: I want to respect you but you make it hard with posts like your last one.  First off, it’s Raidho, which you have misspelled numerous times on numerous posts.  Second...  I am completely taken back by your continued mention of Raidho speakers being “bright” or too detailed.  They have perhaps the most magical tweeter on the planet.  I haven’t ONCE heard them sound bright or fatiguing in any way.

If you’re going to be as outspoken as you are on this forum, make sure you know what you’re talking about when you try to go into detail on brands you have obviously little to no hands on experience with.

Why not have a 2 channel system for both HT and music? You lose out on the special effects, but you gain in sound quality, because your budget only has to cover two speakers, and because getting bulky ones is not so inconvenient/ugly in your interior. That at least is what I did, with two large Quad electrostats and a subwoofer (plus Antimode 8033 room eq). Not only is sound quality for music truly excellent, but with HT the impact is pretty stunning. My personal favouties in dynamic speakers would be the Harbeth line, but that is just a personal preference. You will have to hear them for yourself.

Great info again guys... so a little background and my findings so far.  First off I am in a condo and will probably be here another 3-5 years.  I have a great room layout with the dining, kitchen, and living room all open to eachother.  As such I have about 800 sqft and 10 ft ceilings to fill.  I have been playing with the positioning of furniture and the layout of the room and I think ultimately I will end up putting the tv and speakers on the far wall, facing the rest of the condo, its about 11ft wide with windows behind and to the right.  My seating will be about 6ft away.  I am not only looking for a dynamic soundstage at my couch but I also want to be able to enjoy music while doing chores and what not around the rest of the house.  Given the space limitations the larger towers such as the Sopras and B&W 803's seem a bit overwhelming, that being said I dont want to short change myself given that I will be in a bigger space at some point in the "nearish" future.

As far as what I have heard so far here are my impressions...

Klipsch RP280F:
I currently have some old best buy special Klipsch Icons and I have enjoyed them but want more.  I had always liked the idea of the RF7's but couldnt find any to demo so I figured I could at least get a sense for them by listening to the RP line since the new RF7 iii's share similar components.  After listening to them I was quite let down, they were bass heavy and seemed to muddy the sound stage, it was like the bass washed away any detail in the mids, even the highs seemed to take a back seat, something I didnt think was possible with Klipsch.  Needless to say I quickly moved on.

Martin Logan 60XT:
I had heard some of the ML electrostats many years ago and remember them as being very warm and laid back.  Unfortunately the 60xt just seemed flat in every sense, I was beyond underwhelmed and their performance got worse even being slight off axis from the sweet spot.  I quickly eliminated them as even a remote option.

Golden Ear Reference:
Everything about these speakers is big... they are huge!!!!  The sound was accurate, clean, and presented a really large soundstage with excellent off axis listening.  I really cant complain about them but they just didnt wow me... I felt like they did alot of things well but nothing really great, if I was looking for a dedicated home theater speaker I think these would be fantastic.  For music they just lacked that dynamic experience that I am looking for.

B&W 702s:
I listened to both the 702 and 703's, while they were similar the 702 definitely sounded better, by isolating the tweeter outside of the main enclosure the soundstage was greatly increased and I felt the treble was able to achieve a greater level of seperation from the mids and lows.  The 702's also did a great job of projecting, when seated in the sweet spot the soundstage presented itself directly in front of me, the left and right channels blended perfectly and they just disappeared into music.  Closing my eyes while listening to Aaron Copland it sounded like I was seated center stage at the symphony.  They were clear, accurate, detailed and overall quite pleasant, I did find myself wanting a little bit more out of the bass and more presence in the lower mids but that was quickly resolved by incorporating a SVS SB2000.  At 4k a pair these definitely are the value play, but just after listening to these I heard the Kanta 2's and my world changed... but more on that later.

B&W 804 d3:
These picked up where the 702s left off and brought the extension I felt was missing, I am not sure if this is courtesy of the kevlar cones but the difference was palpable.  The diamond tweeter also separates itself from the 702 adding even more clarity, precision, and airiness... almost to the point of feeling delicate, but not fragile if that makes sense.  It was incredibly detailed to the point that I started to pick up some artifacting and pixelation but I was quickly able to attribute that to the various switches and connections in the demo room.  These speakers are very articulate, while listening to Queen's Fat Bottom Girls I was able to isolate their voices during their harmonizing of the chorus, something that was missing in the other speakers. These speakers also benefited from the addition of the PB2000, I think my personal preference is to run a sub outside of the speaker, I feel like it gives better separation, not to mention the added benefits during home theater listening.  Needless to say these currently sit as my second favorite so far but at their 9k price tag its hard to justify spending an extra 5k over the 702's when they are also priced so closely to the Kanta's.

B&W 803 d3:
These speakers really are fantastic, if I had to nit pick them (beyond their price tag) they seemed a little laid back in their presentation. Beyond that they were simply clinical.

Focal Kanta 2:
These were the speakers that shattered my ideas of what I wanted and made me completely change my thought process (and budget).  They came across very forward, not in a bright or harsh sense, but in an enveloping, surrounding, and inescapable way.  They pulled me in with intoxicating clarity, depth, and presence.  They were punchy but in a very tight and precise sense.  The lows, mids, and highs energetically intertwined together in a expertly choreographed dance and regardless of the content and volume they never stepped on each others toes.  Despite their bullishness I never wanted to back down, I only found myself wanting to push them farther, harder.  Listening to Aaron Copland's Doppio Movimento they were sublime, as the crescendos built the instruments separated and I found myself enjoying the layering of sound like a warm croissant.  Probably the most memorable moment was listening to Yo-Yo Ma and feeling his cello reverberate in my chest.  I also listened to Built To Spill cover Neil Young's Cortez the Killer as well as Gary Clark Jr Bright Lights and Anders Osborne Mind of a Junkie.. all I can say is damn.  I closed my eyes and their guitars were like sirens calling, I quickly found myself lost in bliss.  I know I am gushing a bit but this is the sense of feeling and experience I was referring to in my initial post, I cant really explain it but they moved me. 

I know it sounds like I am sold on the Focals, and if I had to buy them tomorrow I would be, but given the investment I want to make sure I get it right. 

Vandersteen ( count me a fan and owner ) might have a few pairs of the original Quattro at $10k, warehouse finds...
in wood they are now $15
with either you get the built in sub amps and 11 band bass eq
chase your tail with voicing.... or stick to science and 37 years of design principles...
i have a pair of Treo CT on order 
you at least owe yourself a listen

Khost, what you smoking, every Focal ever made can sound a bit forward, any Beryilium tweeter is going crystal clear out to 40k, this tends to pull the ear towards the top, hence the slightly fatter tuning in the midrange which makes the Sopras sound punchy and lively, these are the charms of the speakers.

Do you not think we have heard Sopras, we have and we have said they are excellent speakers personally we think the Sopra series are the best overall set of speakers Focal has ever made, they are very revealing part of their problem is the wide bafles which create a big but less focused sounstage compared to others. Great speakers.

If we didn’t have the equilly fantastic Paradigm Personas we would get the Focals. The two lines are too similar, we feel that the Persona is a bit better with the pure Beryilium midrange being a better driver with less coloration than a sandwich W cone made out of a different material then the tweeter, vs then the incredible coherence you get when the tweeter and midrange are made out of the same material.

As per Heil drivers being bright, most Heil tweeters sound like electrostatics, which means detail and air but not as much of that in your face clarity of a ribbon. What is a Heil tweeter? They are usually made out of a folder mylar diaphram ever heard a bright electrostat? Most electrostats tend to roll of at 16-18k.

One of our clients had a pair of Martin Logan Montis he added a set of Enigma super tweeters which use a new type of film and stator design and these actually go way up there, if the Montis were delivering shimmery highs the supertweeters would not have made an audible difference. My point is mylar films tend to produce smooth slighly soft top ends.

You gonna now tell me ribbons don’t have a tendency to be very bright.

We took a trade in pair of Monitor Audio Platinum one with the Ribbons they sound like Radihos, very impressive detail a tad hard to live with.

Newest Monitors now have a Heil guess what they sound much more laid back.

Khost, we got over 30 years of retail and show going experience, we have sold and setup more different brand of hifi then you can imagine.

Repeat: Sopras are great, Heil tweeters tend to sound smooth, ribbons tend to sound bright.

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ

Google Elac Adante AF-61.

DeKay

As someone who just recently had a 2 week in home demo of the Tekton DI with upgrades, I’ll say this . There is absolutely no comparison (when compared to) our newest member of the family ... Legacy Focus SE’s. Not even close. ..... They cost more....and they sound like more.