5-10k budget... so many choices

Thanks for the response Beetle, I've seen the Vandersteens pop up on a number of these types of threads but I haven't been able to find a dealer locally to demo them.  As for the philosophy I am completely with you, I would rather start with the towers I can afford, building around and up to them as time and budget allow.

Sorry guys I've been at a work conference all day, thanks for all the comments and feedback.  Once I have some time tonight I will write up my thoughts on the various speakers I've heard to give an understanding of how I perceive their sound.  I'm a firm believer that like food we all have our own pallets and thus our own preferences, some like milk chocolate, other prefer dark, it doesn't make one more right than the other.

Cheers

Great info again guys... so a little background and my findings so far.  First off I am in a condo and will probably be here another 3-5 years.  I have a great room layout with the dining, kitchen, and living room all open to eachother.  As such I have about 800 sqft and 10 ft ceilings to fill.  I have been playing with the positioning of furniture and the layout of the room and I think ultimately I will end up putting the tv and speakers on the far wall, facing the rest of the condo, its about 11ft wide with windows behind and to the right.  My seating will be about 6ft away.  I am not only looking for a dynamic soundstage at my couch but I also want to be able to enjoy music while doing chores and what not around the rest of the house.  Given the space limitations the larger towers such as the Sopras and B&W 803's seem a bit overwhelming, that being said I dont want to short change myself given that I will be in a bigger space at some point in the "nearish" future.

As far as what I have heard so far here are my impressions...

Klipsch RP280F:
I currently have some old best buy special Klipsch Icons and I have enjoyed them but want more.  I had always liked the idea of the RF7's but couldnt find any to demo so I figured I could at least get a sense for them by listening to the RP line since the new RF7 iii's share similar components.  After listening to them I was quite let down, they were bass heavy and seemed to muddy the sound stage, it was like the bass washed away any detail in the mids, even the highs seemed to take a back seat, something I didnt think was possible with Klipsch.  Needless to say I quickly moved on.

Martin Logan 60XT:
I had heard some of the ML electrostats many years ago and remember them as being very warm and laid back.  Unfortunately the 60xt just seemed flat in every sense, I was beyond underwhelmed and their performance got worse even being slight off axis from the sweet spot.  I quickly eliminated them as even a remote option.

Golden Ear Reference:
Everything about these speakers is big... they are huge!!!!  The sound was accurate, clean, and presented a really large soundstage with excellent off axis listening.  I really cant complain about them but they just didnt wow me... I felt like they did alot of things well but nothing really great, if I was looking for a dedicated home theater speaker I think these would be fantastic.  For music they just lacked that dynamic experience that I am looking for.

B&W 702s:
I listened to both the 702 and 703's, while they were similar the 702 definitely sounded better, by isolating the tweeter outside of the main enclosure the soundstage was greatly increased and I felt the treble was able to achieve a greater level of seperation from the mids and lows.  The 702's also did a great job of projecting, when seated in the sweet spot the soundstage presented itself directly in front of me, the left and right channels blended perfectly and they just disappeared into music.  Closing my eyes while listening to Aaron Copland it sounded like I was seated center stage at the symphony.  They were clear, accurate, detailed and overall quite pleasant, I did find myself wanting a little bit more out of the bass and more presence in the lower mids but that was quickly resolved by incorporating a SVS SB2000.  At 4k a pair these definitely are the value play, but just after listening to these I heard the Kanta 2's and my world changed... but more on that later.

B&W 804 d3:
These picked up where the 702s left off and brought the extension I felt was missing, I am not sure if this is courtesy of the kevlar cones but the difference was palpable.  The diamond tweeter also separates itself from the 702 adding even more clarity, precision, and airiness... almost to the point of feeling delicate, but not fragile if that makes sense.  It was incredibly detailed to the point that I started to pick up some artifacting and pixelation but I was quickly able to attribute that to the various switches and connections in the demo room.  These speakers are very articulate, while listening to Queen's Fat Bottom Girls I was able to isolate their voices during their harmonizing of the chorus, something that was missing in the other speakers. These speakers also benefited from the addition of the PB2000, I think my personal preference is to run a sub outside of the speaker, I feel like it gives better separation, not to mention the added benefits during home theater listening.  Needless to say these currently sit as my second favorite so far but at their 9k price tag its hard to justify spending an extra 5k over the 702's when they are also priced so closely to the Kanta's.

B&W 803 d3:
These speakers really are fantastic, if I had to nit pick them (beyond their price tag) they seemed a little laid back in their presentation. Beyond that they were simply clinical.

Focal Kanta 2:
These were the speakers that shattered my ideas of what I wanted and made me completely change my thought process (and budget).  They came across very forward, not in a bright or harsh sense, but in an enveloping, surrounding, and inescapable way.  They pulled me in with intoxicating clarity, depth, and presence.  They were punchy but in a very tight and precise sense.  The lows, mids, and highs energetically intertwined together in a expertly choreographed dance and regardless of the content and volume they never stepped on each others toes.  Despite their bullishness I never wanted to back down, I only found myself wanting to push them farther, harder.  Listening to Aaron Copland's Doppio Movimento they were sublime, as the crescendos built the instruments separated and I found myself enjoying the layering of sound like a warm croissant.  Probably the most memorable moment was listening to Yo-Yo Ma and feeling his cello reverberate in my chest.  I also listened to Built To Spill cover Neil Young's Cortez the Killer as well as Gary Clark Jr Bright Lights and Anders Osborne Mind of a Junkie.. all I can say is damn.  I closed my eyes and their guitars were like sirens calling, I quickly found myself lost in bliss.  I know I am gushing a bit but this is the sense of feeling and experience I was referring to in my initial post, I cant really explain it but they moved me. 

I know it sounds like I am sold on the Focals, and if I had to buy them tomorrow I would be, but given the investment I want to make sure I get it right. 

Willem, I really want to stick with 3 channel setup.  I totally get the rationale behind the 2 channel configuration and that may be how I start but I love movies and I dont know if I could do without the center.

As for the equipment / demo discussion I totally agree and I have been taking that into consideration.  Another thing that I am trying to be cognizant of is how forgiving/unforgiving a speaker is.  Out of convenience most of my music comes from Spotify, on wifi I listen to as high of quality as I can but its still compressed.  Whatever speaker I end up with needs to be able to still sound good even with less than perfect material, sadly this is not an area that favors the Focals, the beryllium tweeter is quite revealing.  I wonder how much a good DAC would help there.

I found a Vandersteen dealer about an hour away so I am going to try and get down there this weekend to have a listen.  The closest Paradigm Persona dealer is down in Portland ~3 hours away so that will be another trek.  Its really kind of sad how few hifi shops remain out here.

twoleftears, their may be a certain influence of "lifestyle" in their overall design but technically they really have a lot going for them.  They bring down a number of influences from the Sopra and have even gone to a flax fiber cone that gave a good tight natural feeling punch.  As someone who is habitually single WAF has played zero roll in my thought process.  Regarding the soundstage I would say they presented themselves closer to my listening position, they didnt have the depth as the B&W 804's but I felt like they had more height and projected themselves further into me if that makes sense.

gdhal, if I was going strictly for home theater the golden ears would probably be my primary choice.  The center I heard was fantastic.  That being said I also thoroughly enjoyed the B&W diamond center as well.  Word on the street says that Focal will be putting out a Kanta center at somepoint and I know the Sopra line has one as well. 

Thank you soix, I will definitely look into those 2 and if I get a chance to demo them I will update the thread with my findings.  It is kind of funny how that works, some things just speak to us, there isnt a rhyme or a reason but they leave us with that impression we just cant really shake.

Willem, if I go with something like the Focals I will be starting off with a 2 channel and you may be right, once they are in my home and in use I may not feel the need for the center.  I will leave that one as a TBD.

A little more info on my demo of the FOCAL Kanta, the setup was driven by Naim NAP 250 dr amp and processed by the Naim Streamer using Tidal... I believe this was also the setup used on my demo of the B&W 702s.  The 804 d3's were driven directly off the Marantz 7012 AVR.

Cheers

David, thanks for the response.  Do you have any boutique recommendations?  The challenge is I would like to be able to demo them before making the investment.

Tomic, I am in the greater Seattle area.  After a few calls and confirmations this afternoon I will be making the trek to Tacoma for the Vandersteens on Saturday as well as KitsapAV in Silverdale for the Legacy Focus SE's.  I'm also trying to secure a demo of the Revel's as well.  Should be a busy weekend!

What a busy weekend... it didnt all go according to plan but I still got some quality listening time in.  I went back to audition the Kanta's again but this time I also got to hear the Spora 2's which is where I started. 

First off my thoughts on the Sopras... they are pretty big and the increased driver size was definitely noticeable.  They extended low and punched deep but never seemed to sound "boomy".  I feel like there was more room in the high end and they just never seemed to quite reach that upper ceiling to give them that sense of a truly dynamic sound.  Im not really knocking them, they were incredibly clean and produced a full sound but they seemed more geared towards modern bass forward music.  I also felt that the mid levels, especially percussion, kind of took a back seat.  They were driven with McIntosh tubes which may have played a role in their overall sound.  What was really interesting was after listening to the Sopras I went to the back and listened to the Kanta/Naim combo I had fallen in love with.... To my surprise that gushy feeling they gave me was gone... The Kanta's sounded much more forced and almost bright.  I listened at the same levels I had previously and they almost felt fatiguing, they were still punchy and dynamic and lively but I found myself wanting to back them down, not push them forward as I had before.  Im not sure if that is a result of listening to the Sopra first but it definitely made me scratch my head.  I spent about 45 minutes listening to all kinds of content and I just couldnt back to that place they took me to when I first heard them. 

Saturday I got a late start and wasnt able to get out to Silverdale to hear the Legacy's but I did make it to Tacoma for a good audition of the Vandersteens.  All I can say is WOW, what a totally different speaker and experience.  They had recently shuffled their demo room around and only had an Anthem AVR driving Treo's, so we listened to several CDs through an OPPPO unit.  Even with the minimal setup these speakers still came alive.  Their sound is incredibly unique, they made the music we listened to come alive.  The separation was unreal, they created and presented a truly LIVE sound stage.  At first he put on Dave Mathews and I asked him if it was one of their live albums, to my shock and surprise it was just the studio version of Under the Table and Dreaming.  The way the Vandersteens isolated each instrument and element of the recordings was phenomenal, the speakers just disappeared.  The sound was rich, it was full, and it had an airiness to it.  I wouldnt say the sound was fragile but it had a definite delicateness to it.  Looking back and comparing them to the Focals the best way I can describe my impression is this, the Focal's were like an electric guitar, plugged in and turned up to 11, where as the Vandersteen's were like an acoustic guitar with a richer more intimate and soulful sound.  They really are that different.  One thing that was really refreshing about the audition was the room had absolutely zero treatment so in theory I got to hear them in basically a "home" type of environment.

Im still no closer to a decision and if anything I am even more torn, its like loving ice cream and having to choose between chocolate or vanilla.  They are so different but at the same time both so good.  A consideration that I am realizing is I need to take into account my space.  The room itself is big, but its awkward.  After rearranging my furniture orientation I will be seated about 6 ft from the speakers and at best I will be able to position them 7.5 ft apart.  If I had to be pressed into a choice today I think I would have to give the nod to the Vandersteen's.  I really want to love the Kanta's but I just cant get the taste of their last listening out of my mouth, Im afraid that they will end up just being dominating in my home.  I still have plenty of time before I have to decide and I no doubt will spend several hours with both speakers again.  Im also going to try and get some time with the Revel's and Paradigms.